Posted on 12/09/2008 2:33:58 AM PST by Man50D
On Monday, the Supreme Court decided not to hear the Donofrio case concerning whether Barack Obama is a natural born citizen and therefore qualified to be President. Also, David Horowitz diagnosed those who claim Obama is not natural born as being afflicted with "Obama Derangement Syndrome." Horowitz told people to "shut up about the birth certificate."
A bad day for those of us in tin-foil hats. Even Michelle Malkin is against us .
Mr. Horowitz whizzes right by the issue of whether or not Obama is Constitutionally qualified. He simply says it doesn't matter. He asked,
"What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on U.S. soil?"
When the US Constitution is clear on a matter, we are not supposed to re-think "what difference does it make to the future of this country." If we do this re-thinking at every step, we would not need a Constitution; we would merely cogitate on how proposal X will affect our future. In short, no need for a Constitution.
In this case, the Constitution is very clear. Article II, Section 1 states, "no person except a natural born citizen ... shall be eligible to the Office of President." No fuzz there. No need to look into penumbras and emanations. If a guy ain't natural born, he can't be President.
But, the election already happened. Too late, right? That's Horowitz's contention.
"How viable will our Constitution be if five Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?"
Again, the Constitution is clear on this in the 20th Amendment.
"If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified ..." [My emphasis.]
The US Constitution tells us exactly what to do in the current situation. The election is not some kind of deadline. Even the true election by Electors is not the deadline. The deadline is "the time fixed for the beginning of his term." That would be January 20, 2009. We have not yet reached the Constitutional deadline. The Constitution even hints that there is, or should be, some kind of qualification process: "if the President elect shall have failed to qualify." (By the way, that part of the Constitution was not written by dead white guys some 200 years ago; the 20th Amendment was ratified in 1933.)
If we find that Obama is not natural born, then the Constitution says Joe Biden shall be President until the President thing gets sorted out. Everything about that is horrible. Unfortunately, it is exactly what the Constitution says we shall do. It does not "suggest"; it says "shall."
Are we to apply the Constitution only in cases where it is convenient to do so?
Those of us concerned about this, at least some of us, are not driven by keeping Obama out of office. Look, we're talking President Biden. We're talking disqualifying the first African-American to be elected President. We are talking Constitutional, existential crisis. Riots in the street, even civil war, maybe. This is a very bad situation.
But for all I know, there is a simple way to get past this. Perhaps some kind of retroactive re-definition of "natural born" that would handle Obama's particular technicality. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. I'm actually hoping someone knows a clean way out of this.
For all I know, the facts of this case could turn out to be wonderful: Barack Obama is indeed natural born and we all live happily ever after. But the facts are key here. If he is not natural born, we should not ignore that fact.
Unfortunately, the facts are not clear. Multiple witnesses say Obama was born outside the US, that his father was not a US citizen and his mother was a minor. If those are the facts, he was not "natural born" per the laws in place at the time. Other cases have advanced different arguments challenging Obama's eligibility under the natural born citizen clause.
As much as we wish the bad thing to go away, the "evidence" brought forth to prove Obama's natural born status is next to non-existent, despite what you might have read or heard. Yes, there was a birth announcement in the Honolulu newspaper at the time. Yes, the state of Hawaii said his birth certificate has been verified. Yes, we've seen Obama's birth certificate and it says he was born in Honolulu.
Each of these claims falls apart upon the slightest examination. For those of you tired of the subject, skip to my Conclusion. For anyone curious about the evidence presented to prove Obama's natural born status, read on.
The Birth Announcement. A birth announcement in a newspaper means nothing. Although Michelle Malkin waxed a little snarky on this, "Did a fortune-teller place it in the paper knowing he would run for president?", it is fairly common to run such announcements for babies born outside the area of the announcement or even the US. Proud grandparents, for example, could have run the announcement just to let people know they are now grandparents.
The announcement is not exactly informative . It says "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy, son. Aug 4." That's it. It ran on page B-6 of the August 13, 1961 edition of The Sunday Advertiser. It is not an official document of any kind and makes no claim of the location of his birth in any case. It announces a birth, period.
The "Verification." Here is how the story was reported by KITV .
"The state's Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate."
That looks pretty black and white -- at first glance. And that is how it normally gets reported. But read it again and then the whole article. The above statement simply says the birth certificate is legitimate. The actual quote from the Department of Health director is
"I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
All they did was verify that Obama's original birth certificate is on record. But that doesn't tell us what we need to know. What we need to know is where he was born.
Surprisingly, Hawaii happens to issue birth certificates for babies born outside Hawaii. The Hawaiian law on that states:
"Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child."
The state of Hawaii did not say what was on the certificate and it won't release a copy out of privacy considerations. The state of Hawaii simply verified that Obama has a birth certificate on record; it did not verify that he was born in Hawaii.
The released birth certificate. It is often claimed that Obama has already released his birth certificate. What we have is an online copy via the web site FightTheSmears.com. There are several significant questions about this certificate.
* Did this really come from Obama? Is FightTheSmears an official conduit of information from Obama? * How genuine is the document? Is it a photo-shopped or Microsoft Word fake, ala Dan Rather's memo? (I am not a forensic documentarian, so I will remain silent here. Snopes says it isn't a forgery.) * The document itself says, "Any alterations invalidate this certificate" and it has been altered by, at least, a redacted certificate number. * Most importantly, rendering the previous points moot, this is not Obama's original birth certificate (the "long form") and thus does not tell us what we need to know. Even if totally genuine, it is not the document necessary to prove he was born in Hawaii.
As Joe the Farmer reported in the American Thinker ,
"Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: ‘In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.'"
The essence of the complaint is that the "Certification of Live Birth" that is used by FightTheSmears, the Annenberg Political FactCheck and others does not have the same information as an original birth certificate, including location of birth.
Conclusion. The irony is that this would not take a protracted trial with tons of evidence and counter-evidence, examination and cross-examination, expert testimony from forensic anthropologists, or satellite imagery. All it should take is for Obama to authorize the release his original birth certificate, the "long form", the one the state of Hawaii says it has on record.
That's it; release the real certificate. If the "long form" birth certificate says Obama was born in the US, I think we are done.
Hurray!
But even if it doesn't, we are not in Constitutional crisis or civil war just yet. Real lawyers could review the law and determine that Obama's birth circumstances still meet the "natural born" criteria. Let's get this issue out of the newspapers and the blogs and into a courtroom. A courtroom, you know, where facts and the law are dealt with in this country.
But if that doesn't end it, we are still not in a crisis. Legislators could come up with some kind of retro-active legislation. I hear it's been done before. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but it doesn't seem hopeless.
Only if all of the above fail prior to January 20, 2009, would we be required to follow the Constitutional remedy of installing President Biden.
I think this series of actions is what lawyers call due process and due diligence. That, in my mind, is what we should be doing rather ignoring the entire matter because it is so unpleasant. We should also not be rope-a-doping the legal situation just to push the issue past January 20, 2009. Simply address the issue in a straightforward legal and Constitutional manner. That's all I ask.
But please, do not tell us to deny the facts, ignore the Constitution and "shut up." George Orwell reminded us that
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two makes four. If that is granted, all else follows."
Two plus two makes four. And the US President must be natural born.
Yes...only Obama can really settle the issue by being forthright and honest.
Thanks for posting. Here’s another thread of interest to those of us following the Wrotnowski/Donofrio case “natural-born status” case:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2145327/posts
He should.
Thereby ignoring the "ex post facto law" provision of the Constitution. But, hey, it's a living document, you know?
Question-
Is it possible that someone other than Barack Obama Sr. was listed on the original Birth Certificate in order that both parents would appear to be U.S. citizens to allow citizenship to a baby born outside the U.S.?
If this is the case and DNA could prove that there was no biological link to the “father” listed on the birth certificate, this would explain why he will not release it.
I am still in total disbelief of what we as a nation have allowed to happen.
de Texas Fossil
Our government is BROKEN....NO ONE HAS ANY COURAGE these days.
BTTT
Except that if you look at the page of birth announcements printed in both papers, all the babies were born on or about the same date, all the birth announcements are worded identically, and none of them contain the name of the child. If these had been submitted by parents or grandparents one would expect that there would be some difference in the wording, and surely at least one would contain the name of the baby. The source of all the announcements is obviously some government office and not the family. And if Obama wasn't born locally then where did they get the information to print?
It is illuminating to see the utter lack of knowledge among our ranks. And beyond that, they appear to lack the will to inquire.
If this were Bobby Jindal instead of Obama, I have a feeling the issue would have been resolved by now.
” the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.”
I would like to see a copy of one of these types of BCs. I’d like to see how the Place/country of birth is listed. Would it be listed as “Hawaii” or some other country.
The best analysis I’ve read on the subject to date.
Me too. When I see the smug Obamabots with their Obama '08 bumper stickers driving around, I stare at them as if I were at the zoo looking at a new species. I just do not get what makes them tick. One that I saw yesterday had cut off the words of the sticker, so that only the BHO communist rising sun was still stuck to their car.
No "If's" about it. Without a valid Hawiian birth certificate that would stand up in court, Obama has failed to qualify.
This Amendment anticipated just such a situation, that regardless of whether 64 million want it or don't want it to be so, "qualification" for the office still has to be met, even after the election, and if not, he does not take office. So those who think that this is a done deal need to read their Constitution and this 20 Amendment and wake up.
Clearly, the constitution is no longer worth the parchment it’s written on. Perhaps we should simply abandon the rule of law and embrace Liberal anarchy; it’s what a good many citizens want - even a good many of our so-called intellectuals.
“How viable will our Constitution be if five Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?”
They could order new elections and not one voter would be disenfranchised
No less viable than if they void the other 60 million or so who didn't vote for 0
.
First we have the claim that if Obama was born outside the country he couldn't be a U.S. citizen, since his father was an alien and his mother a minor. Fine.
Then the author says that they have a BC in Hawaii, but that doesn't mean anything, since it could have been given to someone born overseas.
Does Hawaii really give birth certificates to non-citizens? Because that's the only way this makes sense. I can see them giving a BC if Obama was definitely a citizen born overseas, but given the above arguments, he couldn't have been a citizen if born in Kenya.
Obviously, they wouldn't ask, they'd just do it.
Actually the only sort of "retroactive redefinition" that would be lawful would be a Constitutional Amendment. Congress cannot pass a law redefining a term or terms in the Constitution so as to change the meaning of the Constitution. It's a contract, unless changed per its own terms, it must mean today what it meant when ratified. Otherwise why bother to have a written Constitution.
The Constitution defines the form, powers and limitations of the national government. It impacts the states by denying them some powers they had prior to it's passage, but these are specifically enumerated in Art. I Section 10.
Don't hold your Breath. Axlerod mispoke, that's not the Reverand Wright I know, and so on and so forth.
I wonder who has the barf bag concession for the inaguration? That will be one rich person.
They got it when the birth certificate was filed. But we don't know if it was for an Out of Hawaii birth. Dates, and places of birth can easily be "mis reported", with false affidavits or documentation, just so that poor little Barry would be a US citizen, rather than a Subject of the rather unstable British Crown Colony of Kenya.
Not saying that is what happened, but without seeing a certified copy of the original Certificate, we can't tell if it was submitted by a local hospital, or by the parent(s) based on an Out of Hawaii birth. Either way the information in the announcement would come from the Birth Certificate, just as it did for all those other little nippers born around August 4th, 1961.
No they could not, not if they want to follow the Constitution. It has no provision for "do overs". All the more reason why it should perhaps have a provision for "proof of eligibility".
“How viable will our Constitution be if five Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?” David, this will not be the SCOTUS’s fault, you arrogant ass. BUT, David, you simpleton, what of a man who is such a fraud that he would scam 64 million voters into voting for him though he cannot be a legitimate president. Never mind David, you box of socialist rocks, we consider the Constitution more important than rule by mob. You’re still twisted from your years in socialism mindset.
Randall, you idiot stealth sycophant, this is not true! ... “Yes, we’ve seen Obama’s birth certificate and it says he was born in Honolulu.” Supposedly, his certification of live birth (meaning he was born alive somewhere and it is on record somewhere) is issued from Hawai’i, but that is not and has not been his certificate of birth, the long form saying where he was born. Sheesh, I’m getting really tired of this deceitful crap. We have a president-alleged, the coming lair in chief. Would someone please publish something nationally that tells the actual truth as known so far?
And my point is, when a writer puts such an assertion up, too many will read that far and stop because they have seen what they wanted to have verified. And will fail to read further and discover the truth.
Obama is going to be implicated with the Chicago gang, it would be better that he stepped forward now, admitted that he is ineligible because of his non-natural designation, withdraw and possibly return to being a Senator or a Governor since there is now a vacancy, a job he can be qualified for.
Save face for his efforts and not to tarnish what he could have been, maybe another will do it right next time.It would set him apart in history as an example of honesty and his coins will still be worth something in the future.
Here is your option Barry, use it now, save America, protect the future.
Horowitz is finally showing his true colors.
I personally don’t need David Horowitz or Michelle Malkin telling me whether to abide by the the United States Constitution or not. Who the hell are they? Simply put they’re two more loudmouths who think they’re smarter than the rest of us. It’s irrelevant to me what side of the political spectrum they represent. They’re just two more people who make their living talking and writing but never really doing.
Of course they did. Have popped out Obama on the 4th, his mother then managed post-natal recovery, a trip half way around the world, and then raced to the records office so that lil' Obama's birth notice could appear in the newspaper on the same day as all the other children born on the 4th. Just in case he ran for president some day.
Does that strike you as at all likely?
How about this instead: Obama's mother gives birth in Kenya. She phones her mother in Hawaii after the delivery. (Daughters do occasionally telephone their mothers in this circumstance.) Madelyn Dunham proudly places the birth notice in the local paper. Easy.
Does that strike you as at all likely?
That does not matter. There is no need speculate about its likelihood. If he was born in Hawaii, Obama could easily release the root document behind his "Certification of Live Birth," that names the hospital where he was born, and names the doctor or midwife who delivered him. Instead he has stonewalled. Why?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.