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The Failure of Our Pro-Life Leadership
LifeSiteNews ^ | 12/9/08 | Brian Rooney

Posted on 12/10/2008 4:13:41 PM PST by wagglebee

December 9, 2008 (InsideCatholic.com) - I recently attended a meeting of pro-life leaders from around the country, called in order to formulate a national strategy on how to defeat the promised Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA). During the 2008 presidential campaign, President-elect Barack Obama infamously stated, to much applause, "Well, the first thing I'd do as president is, is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do."

The intent here is to codify the decision in Roe v. Wade, preventing future politicians (and courts outside the Supreme Court) from giving any more power to the states to place limits on abortion. In doing so, FOCA actually goes beyond Roe, calling abortion a "fundamental right" guarded by the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution (and not just the illusory "right to privacy" created in Griswold v. Connecticut, with Roe being part of its progeny).
 
The call to action in the meeting was admirable, but in the final analysis, it spoke volumes about the pro-life leadership in our country today: It is a group completely on the defensive and has accepted Roe as a framework to work within, rather than a fight to overcome. Choosing to operate within Roe's strictures has proven to be a failed strategy, bringing us to the point where there is a real possibility of FOCA being visited upon our nation.
 
The parade of horribles (and they are truly horrible) that would follow as a result of FOCA include:
 
    * nullifying the 2003 Partial Birth Abortion Act;
    * repealing the Hyde amendment;
    * allowing abortions at military hospitals;
    * nullifying informed consent laws, parental notification laws, waiting periods, and born-alive infant protection acts;
    * forcing Catholic hospitals to perform abortions or close their doors;
    * ridding rights of conscience in various states; and much more.

Those concerned pro-life leaders from the aforementioned gathering -- as well as the bishops at the recent USCCB meeting -- are right to speak out loudly against the bill. But there remains a hitch: What we are most likely to see from Congress is not a clean bill, but one debated and compromised. That is what Congress does, and that's where the real danger is. Catholics who imprudently voted for the most pro-abortion candidate in history may also be fooled into supporting a "revised" FOCA.
 
For example, what if a revised FOCA has an exemption for religious institutions like Catholic hospitals? Would that make the bill more palatable? What about a FOCA that allows the Hyde Amendment or the Partial Birth Abortion Act to endure? Will there still be vigorous opposition if we come to see a compromised version of FOCA? Or will we hear the same tired claims made by some pro-lifers that a compromise FOCA may actually lead to fewer incidences of abortion (and since Roe is here to stay, they say, FOCA might be a good thing from the Catholic perspective).
 
No matter what form FOCA takes in its final version, it must be defeated. Retreat or compromise would only further cement the notion -- among the general public, and even many pro-life leaders -- that Roe is here to stay. In whatever form FOCA takes, it marks the end of the "incremental approach" to combating abortion that has been espoused by many mainstream pro-life leaders and organizations for the last decade or so as the only way to combat abortion. These are the same leaders who advised bishops against trying to overturn Roe, saying we did not have the votes on the Supreme Court. This "one way only" approach has led not just to the very real threat of FOCA, but to an incoming president who promises to fill our courts with pro-abortion judges. If this isn't the right time, the next couple of decades will surely be no better.
 
Pro-life leaders must reconsider the failed "incremental steps only" strategy that has done nothing to stop Roe. Their call to "wait" has produced the expected "never."
 
Brian Rooney is an attorney and spokesman at the Thomas More Law Center.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; foca; moralabsolutes; prolife
Pro-life leaders must reconsider the failed "incremental steps only" strategy that has done nothing to stop Roe. Their call to "wait" has produced the expected "never."

Very true.

1 posted on 12/10/2008 4:13:41 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 12/10/2008 4:15:39 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 12/10/2008 4:16:23 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Was Doug Kmic there?


4 posted on 12/10/2008 4:21:51 PM PST by Ken522
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To: wagglebee

[sigh] I am afraid that with the election of this president, the possibility of ever overturning Roe vs. Wade has ended. I am heartbroken and have no idea what to do next. We will see one million children ripped from the womb each year indefinitely into the future . . . til Shiloh come.


5 posted on 12/10/2008 4:22:32 PM PST by Juan Medén
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To: Juan Medén

No, I don’t think there ever was a realistic chance of overturning Roe v Wade. If there was, it would have been overturned under Bush.

But there is another way to reduce abortion and my idea is in my profile.


6 posted on 12/10/2008 4:26:08 PM PST by ari-freedom (Conservatives solve problems. Libertarians ignore problems. Liberals create problems.)
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To: All
Pinged from Terri Dailies


7 posted on 12/10/2008 4:34:58 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
The Freedom of Choice Act is just the beginning - the so-called "right to die" is fast becoming the duty to die! And we are losing on so many other fronts!

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
8 posted on 12/10/2008 4:39:29 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Peregrine, patron saint of cancer patients, pray for us.)
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To: wagglebee

If our Catholic bishops had spoken out BEFORE this election instead of seeing to it that ACORN was funded with Catholic money and having 54% of the so-called “Catholic” vote go for this murdering SOB, we wouldn’t have this problem. The Church leadership has largely betrayed us and now they want to sing about defeating FOCA? Cow, barn, gone. This Catholic sees this as meaningless rhetoric from bishops who are playing one song for the flock while doing something else altogether. At best, they’re more concerned with losing their tax-exempt status than they are about speaking the truth.


9 posted on 12/10/2008 4:47:20 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Emmett McCarthy

I agree completely.


10 posted on 12/10/2008 4:49:07 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Emmett McCarthy
Sadly true, E. McC.!

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
11 posted on 12/10/2008 4:51:00 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Peregrine, patron saint of cancer patients, pray for us.)
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To: wagglebee

GWB said in either 2001 or 2002 that the public did not want to halt abortion, and little has been done to do so. On that point, GWB is right. The public does want abortion, or it wouldn’t vote for abortion politicians time and again.


12 posted on 12/10/2008 4:58:27 PM PST by Theodore R. (The most frightening words in the English language: The American people!)
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To: Emmett McCarthy

I think it’s mostly just a fascination for the letter “D” for Democrat! That answers a lot of political questions in regard to the sheeple.


13 posted on 12/10/2008 4:59:39 PM PST by Theodore R. (The most frightening words in the English language: The American people!)
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To: ari-freedom

It would have been overturned in 1991 had Ronald W. Reagan made sound court appointments.


14 posted on 12/10/2008 5:00:27 PM PST by Theodore R. (The most frightening words in the English language: The American people!)
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To: wagglebee

I wouldn’t call it a failure. The number of abortions fall every year now and the public is increasingly sympathetic to pro-life views. And just because Obama wants to pass the Freedom of Choice Act, it doesn’t mean he’ll succeed, or even make it a top priority.


15 posted on 12/10/2008 5:14:18 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (If Islam conquers the world, the Earth will be at peace because the human race will be killed off.)
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To: ConorMacNessa

Hi Conor - What I find is just how many good and true Catholics - who lovingly and patiently showed me the faith by their very lives - think the same thing that this “Prodigal Son” does. We must not be driven from the Sacrament by the deeply flawed leadership, but I will do nothing more to support their material “stuff”.

As a young man, I was foolish and rebellious so coming to this point for me was fraught with self-doubt. The fact that so many whose lives of faith I respect agree is a great comfort and validation. Thank you.


16 posted on 12/10/2008 5:15:27 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Emmett McCarthy

In my neighborhood I am constantly amazed: the VERY SAME HOMES that had Obama/Biden lawn signs on them just a few weeks ago now have NATIVITY SCENES with Baby Jesus on the lawns!!!

Catholics went for Barack Insane Obama by 57%. If THAT isn’t a sign of terrible terrible deep apostacy and hypocrisy I don’t know what is.


17 posted on 12/10/2008 5:20:24 PM PST by deannadurbin
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To: deannadurbin

As a CHURCH we’d be better off without the tax-exempt status and with about half of those who currently call themselves “Catholics”. The foolish and short-sighted part is that, if the bishops really believed and told the truth and the feds tried to pull the tax-exempt status, I believe the Church would win anyway. So, the question is are the bishops foolish and short-sighted or are they hypocrites?


18 posted on 12/10/2008 5:26:42 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: wagglebee

I predict Catholic hospitals will turn themselves into nursing facilities, rather than close down. The long-term plan is to make all health care secular. The Catholic Church should be onto them by now and not allow this to happen.


19 posted on 12/10/2008 5:29:23 PM PST by pray4liberty (Always vote for life!)
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To: deannadurbin
Catholics went for Barack Insane Obama by 57%. If THAT isn’t a sign of terrible terrible deep apostacy and hypocrisy I don’t know what is.

Jesus has it all written down in his Books of Life. This election has revealed who has stayed faithful to Him, who has compromised Him, and who has deserted Him for another Messiah.

20 posted on 12/10/2008 5:32:23 PM PST by pray4liberty (Always vote for life!)
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To: wagglebee
It's a whole lot easier to write authoritative sounding op-eds on the "failure of our leaders" than it is to march your ass down to city hall and spend an entire day just to have 2 minutes to testify before a city council meeting on some ridiculous abortion clinic access bill, but yet, if you're not the president, and you're not a congressman, it might be all you can do, and if enough people bothered, who knows, may the the American experiment would work.

Let's fix our own failures before we bemoan those of our leaders.

Meditate on "self government."

21 posted on 12/10/2008 5:39:29 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (appeasment is collaboration.)
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To: Emmett McCarthy
Hi Emmet - I, too, am a prodigal son - My wife brought me back into the Church. That parable never made sense to me until a few years ago when I came to the understanding that salvation, like the sacrifice of Christ - is gratuitous.

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
22 posted on 12/10/2008 5:52:06 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: wagglebee

Blame the catholic bishops and their funding of leftwing organizations via CCHD (Catholic Campaign for Human Development).

They are willing to fund the pro-death liberals with their shilling for left-wing “Interfaith” organizations that undermine and dilute their moral message. These organizations they ally with are explicitly pro-choice and explicitly support the pro-abortion Democrat establishment. In many cases, they have funded organizations that went to bat for Obama - including ACORN. Heck, they funded Obama himself back in the mid-1980s!!

In the process, they undermine the very catholic faith they claim to uphold.

Not ONE RED CENT for CCHD is what every Catholic should be saying.


23 posted on 12/10/2008 5:58:30 PM PST by WOSG (Obama - a born in the USA socialist)
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To: ConorMacNessa

Ah, you might like my song “That Rock Is Gonna Roll”. You can hear it at http://emmettgrayson.avenuehifi.com You don’t need to buy it. One day, of course, I hope it’s a big hit if that will bring glory to God and His Son. If I get a lot of money, well, hopefully I will use that for the same purpose. here are two versions on there. One is 5 minutes (too long for radio) The other about 3 1/2


24 posted on 12/10/2008 6:02:15 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: wagglebee
PRO-LIFERS MUST WIN ELECTIONS!!! ( Yes, I am shouting!)

Therefore part of their strategy must be:

* Catholic and Protestant pro-lifers must DEMAND that their churches never give a dime to ACORN.

* Have an organized effort to identify the Christians ( Catholic and Protestant) who are Democrats and proselytize! Convince these Democrats that voting for pro-abortion candidates is a vote for evil. One way to identify them is to check the church address directory with voter roles. Please remember that if every Christian ( Catholic and Protestant) had voted pro-life Obama would **not** have won the election.

* Fight election fraud. Start now identifying poll watchers, combing through voter registration lists looking for invalid registrations, and joining with other PACs to insist on prosecution of voter fraud.

* Work at the grass roots to see that pro-life and conservative Republicans enter the political system at the lowest levels. For instance, in my state the gate way to political advancement is a seat on the school board.

* Work to bring your relatives, friends, and neighbors to a full understanding of Christ. Strengthen those in your congregation who are weak in their testimony of Christ. The surest way to abolish abortion is through a country-wide revival of faith in Christ.

25 posted on 12/10/2008 6:30:41 PM PST by wintertime
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To: WOSG
Not ONE RED CENT for CCHD is what every Catholic should be saying.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

On the day, that any congregation may be taking up collections for left wing ( and therefore pro-abortion) organizations, put a flyer on the cars in the parking lot. Another strategy is a sidewalk picket with signs.

Get the word out to other members of the congregation and let them know where this money is going.

26 posted on 12/10/2008 6:35:29 PM PST by wintertime
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To: wagglebee
Pro-life leaders must reconsider the failed "incremental steps only" strategy that has done nothing to stop Roe.

I await with interest the presentation of an alternative plan.

27 posted on 12/10/2008 7:29:55 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: wintertime

“Not ONE RED CENT for CCHD is what every Catholic should be saying.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

On the day, that any congregation may be taking up collections for left wing ( and therefore pro-abortion) organizations, put a flyer on the cars in the parking lot. Another strategy is a sidewalk picket with signs.

Get the word out to other members of the congregation and let them know where this money is going.”

I agree, but it we do this onesy-twosy it is not effective. If you are a fellow conservative catholic, freepmail me, we need to figure out how to get organized. I have some ideas.


28 posted on 12/10/2008 8:10:44 PM PST by WOSG (Obama - a born in the USA socialist)
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To: Emmett McCarthy
Surely you saw this list. They did speak out before the election saying that life was the primary issue. Unfortunately the CINOs didn't listen. REAL Catholics did not vote for Obama.

Over 100 Bishops Have Spoken Out on Priority of Life Issues
Posted on October 28, 2008, 11:59 AM | Deal W. Hudson
The list of U. S. bishops who have spoken out on the priority of the life issues in this election is now over 100. The list now contains 70 individual bishops and three joint statements.
I would like to continue updating this list until the day of the election. I have tried to incorporate all the comments thus far. If I dd not get them all, I apologize. (For a few of the suggestions, I could not find a suitable link.)
Please continue using the comments section to let us know what bishop is not on this list who should be. This would include any bishop who has individually, or jointly, published a statement about this election pointing out the primacy of the life issues.
Thank you for your help.
1. Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver
2. Bishop James Conley, auxiliary of Denver
3. Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C.
4. Justin Cardinal Rigali of Philadelphia, chairman of the Committee on Pro-Life Activities
5. Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport, chairman of the Committee on Doctrine
6. Edward Cardinal Egan of New York
7. Bishop Samuel Aquila of Fargo
8. Bishop David Zubik of Pittsburgh
9. Bishop Michael Sheridan of Colorado Springs
10. Archbishop Jose Gomez of San Antonio
11. Bishop Oscar Cantu, auxiliary of San Antonio
12. Bishop William Murphy of Rockville Centre
13. Bishop Edward Slattery of Tulsa
14. Bishop Kevin Farrell of Dallas
15. Bishop Gregory Aymond of Austin
16. Sean Cardinal O'Malley of Boston
17. Bishop Thomas Wenski of Orlando
18. Archbishop John Nienstedt of Saint Paul/Minneapolis
19. Francis Cardinal George of Chicago, President of the USCCB
20. Bishop Robert Vasa of Baker
21. Bishop Jerome Listecki of La Crosse
22. Bishop Richard Lennon of Cleveland
23. Bishop Ralph Nickless of Sioux City
24. Archbishop George Niederauer of San Francisco
25. Bishop Glen Provost of Lake Charles, LA
26. Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn
27. Bishop Joseph F. Martino of Scranton
28. Archbishop Raymond Burke, Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura
30. Bishop Peter J. Jugis of Charlotte
31. Bishop Michael F. Burbidge of Raleigh
32. Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, KS
33. Bishop Robert Finn of Kansas City-St. Joseph, MO
34. Bishop Robert C. Morlino of Madison, WS
35. Bishop Ronald
Gilmore of Dodge City, KS
36. Bishop Paul
Coakley of Salina, KS
37. Bishop Michael
Jackels of Wichita
38. Bishop Gerald M.
Barbarito of Palm Beach
39. Bishop Kevin W.
Vann of Fort Worth
40. Bishop Rene H. Gracida, retired, of Corpus Christi
41. Daniel Cardinal DiNardo of Houston
42. Bishop Paul S. Loverde of Arlington
43. Bishop Francis X. DiLorenzo of Richmond
44. Bishop William Murphy of Rockville Center
45. Bishop Robert McManus of Worcester
46. Bishop Arthur Serratelli of Patterson
47. Bishop Robert Herrmann of St. Louis
48. Archbishop Edwin O'Brien of Baltimore
49. Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted of Phoenix
50. Bishop Thomas D. Doran of Rockford
51. Bishop Joseph A. Galante of Camden
52. Bishop Robert J. Baker of Birmingham
53. Archbishop Alexander J. Brunett of Seattle
54. Bishop J. Peter Sartain of Joliet
55. Bishop John M. Smith of Trenton
56. Bishop Earl Boyea of Lansing
57. Bishop Leonard R. Blair of Toledo
58. Bishop Frances J. Dewane of Venice
59. Bishop W. Frances Malooly of Wilmington
60. Bishop Robert Morlino of Madison
61. Bishop John Yanta , retired, of Amarillo
62. Bishop James V. Johnston of Springfield-Cape Girardeau
63. Archbishop John Vlazny of Portland
64. Bishop Blase J. Cupich of Rapid City
65. Bishop Lawrence Brandt of Greensburg
66. Bishop Dennis M. Schnurr of Cincinatti
67. Bishop Larry Silva of Honolulu
68. Bishop Paul Swain of Sioux Falls
69. Bishop Michael J. Sheehan of Santa Fe
70. Bishop Eusebius Beltran of Oklahoma City
71. Bishop Kevin C. Rhoades of Harrisburg
72-94. Joint Statement by the bishops of New York State (22 bishops)
95-111. Joint Statement by the bishops of Pennsylvania (16 bishops)
112-116. Joint Statement by the bishops of Kansas (4 bishops)
117-126. Joint Statement by the bishops of Florida (9 bishops)
Added by me
 
127. Bishop Tobin -- http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=30333 ^
 
128. Archbishop Wilton Gregory  georgiabulletin.org ...
 
 
130. Archbishop Elden Curtiss Omaha http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2123119/posts?page=1
 
131. Bishop Carlson's of Michigan pastoral letter in full, go to:
http://www.saginaw.org/images/election-statement_carlson_102...

 

29 posted on 12/10/2008 8:11:26 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Emmett McCarthy

If our Catholic bishops had spoken out BEFORE this election instead of seeing to it that ACORN was funded with Catholic money and having 54% of the so-called “Catholic” vote go for this murdering SOB, we wouldn’t have this problem. The Church leadership has largely betrayed us and now they want to sing about defeating FOCA? Cow, barn, gone. This Catholic sees this as meaningless rhetoric from bishops who are playing one song for the flock while doing something else altogether. At best, they’re more concerned with losing their tax-exempt status than they are about speaking the truth.”

I agree 100%. Obama was elected on the backs of support of catholic voters and the catholic organizations could have stopped it but didnt. They showed in their actions that this is not really a priority, and even the ‘faithful citizenship’ language was made deliberately vague to undercut the prolife message.


30 posted on 12/10/2008 8:12:35 PM PST by WOSG (Obama - a born in the USA socialist)
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To: deannadurbin

**Catholics went for Barack Insane Obama by 57%. **

That number was revised to only 48 percent.

Still too much.

And I continue to say that Catholics did NOT vote for Obamanation, only CINOs (Catholics in Name Only) did. And in so doing, they have excommunicated themselves and cannot receive Communion. They need to talk to a priest.


31 posted on 12/10/2008 8:13:41 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: WOSG
You are wrong about the Catholic Bishops funding ACORN. It all stopped. Please check out these FR threads.

U.S. Bishops Cut All Funding to ACORN, Activities Funded Hard to Determine
Bishop discusses reasons behind cutoff of ACORN funding
Catholic Church drops ACORN funding

32 posted on 12/10/2008 8:15:36 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: WOSG

I wrote a check to my church’s Caritas fund for emergencies when they help out parishioners.


33 posted on 12/10/2008 8:16:27 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: wintertime
U.S. Bishops Cut All Funding to ACORN, Activities Funded Hard to Determine
Bishop discusses reasons behind cutoff of ACORN funding
Catholic Church drops ACORN funding

34 posted on 12/10/2008 8:17:12 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: wagglebee
Surely children were not made for the streets
And fathers were not made to leave
Surely this isn't how it should be

Surely life wasn't made to forget
And the lost were not made to forget
Surely faith without action is dead

35 posted on 12/10/2008 8:18:08 PM PST by Gone_Postal (We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat)
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To: Salvation

Anywhere near 50% of Catholics voting for a man who is for abortion without restrictions and infanticide for babies born alive after abortion attempts is a sign of terrible moral decay in the church.


36 posted on 12/10/2008 9:26:12 PM PST by deannadurbin
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To: wintertime

“* Catholic and Protestant pro-lifers must DEMAND that their churches never give a dime to ACORN.”

It goes WAY BEYOND ACORN. Catholic charities must never give one red cent to any saul alinsky-type organizations, but 95% of CCHD goes to such organizations. Anything with “Interfaith” in its name is part of the problem.

The wider issue is that ‘social justice’ has been used to divert and dilute the catholic moral authority from these core life issues.

“* Work at the grass roots to see that pro-life and conservative Republicans enter the political system at the lowest levels. For instance, in my state the gate way to political advancement is a seat on the school board.”

True.


37 posted on 12/10/2008 9:49:31 PM PST by WOSG (Obama - a born in the USA socialist)
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To: Salvation

NONE of this was shared in church bulletins in most churches or communicated from pulpits. There was a deliberate policy of obfuscation by what must have been multiple liberals in the church US CCB heirarchy to ‘soften the message’.

I do blame the bishops for allowing funds to be used by left-wing organizations that ignore and undermine the life issue. They do not understand the anti-life consequences of their actions.


38 posted on 12/10/2008 9:58:41 PM PST by WOSG (Obama - a born in the USA socialist)
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To: Salvation

I didnt say that they continued to fund ACORN. What I AM saying is that 95% of what CCHD money goes to is organizations that are saul alinsky leftwing activist groups that are JUST AS BAD as ACORN.

Every organization with the “Interfaith” label is a part of the “Industrial Areas Foundation” network, which was founded by saul alinsky. These are community activist groups, and one of them funded barack obama back in the day, and their sole purpose is to agitate for govt. It’s left wing activism and it harms the catholic churchs moral credibility.


39 posted on 12/10/2008 10:03:47 PM PST by WOSG (Obama - a born in the USA socialist)
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To: Emmett McCarthy

U.S. bishop approximate breakdown, my estimate based on your question:

About 1/2 are foolish bureaucrats steeped in clericalism and living insulated lives completely out out touch with reality, surrounded by sycophants, yes-men, peace-and-justice progressives, and “SOV2” liturgists. These fit the famous maxim, “A bishop is he who never has a bad meal and never hears the truth.”

About 1/4 dangerous apostates who know exactly what they are doing, seek to undermine the Church, who should be excommunicated.

About 1/4 heroic, courageous men who are devoted to Christ and the true Church and are usually seen as lone nutcases going out on a controversial limb by their fellow bishops. In other works, the good guys.

Our only hope is Sambi and the Pope getting more of the last category to replace the first two categories as they retire.


40 posted on 12/10/2008 10:34:35 PM PST by baa39 (www.FightFOCA.com - innocent lives depend on you)
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To: ari-freedom

ari, I like your adoption idea. One problem I see with pro-life successes, when they talk women out of abortion thru sidewalk counseling or a crisis center or such, is we are encouraging a huge number of single-parent homes, with all the attendant problems.

Usually a woman going for abortion is single, with a boyfriend of some sort. Statistics show whether she goes through with the abortion OR changes her mind and keeps baby, the couple usually breaks up EITHER WAY. So, abortion is so traumatic, it destroys the relationship. Then you have a child being reared by a mom with all the accompanying economic, social and educational hardships, an no “father figure” yet many married couples with secure homes are dying for a baby.

I have a real problem that saving babies usually mean convicting them to lives without fathers. I’m not putting down single-moms, but it is a fact a child will generally do better in a financially secure, middle-class, two-parent home. If the mom really wants to keep her baby and can somehow do it, it’s of course her decision. But more incentives and emphasis should be put on adoption as one loving choice, for the baby’s sake. I realize each situation is unique, it is no doubt the greatest sacrifice, the most painful a woman could make, but in SOME situations surely it is also the best for her child.


41 posted on 12/10/2008 10:44:07 PM PST by baa39 (www.FightFOCA.com - innocent lives depend on you)
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To: WOSG; Salvation

You are correct, and the fact it was “stopped” a few weeks before the election only when it reached National MSM level is not particularly impressive on the part of the bishops. Catholics have been complaining, writing, and even organizing small grass-roots efforts for over TEN YEARS to get the bishops to STOP not just ACORN but all the CCHD BS, which most of it is.

And, I’m sorry to disillusion some good Catholics, it’s not just CCHD. Catholic Charities, Bishops Annual Appeal, many of these things with the fancy posters in the vestibule with pictures of starving kids or whatever, are almost as bad. YOUR MONEY HAS GONE DIRECTLY, via umbrella organizations, to pay for abortions, Democrat fundraisers, global warming causes, feminist groups, homosexual groups, free attorneys for illegals, heretical religious educational materials, consulting fees for “safe environment” classes conducted by groups that support prostitution, pornography, contraception....and more.

Caveat: this is not true in every diocese, but almost all. Burke, Bruskewitz, Vasa have cracked down on this stuff a while ago.

Spend a few hours following the links from your archdiocese, and you can discover this yourself. Call the peace and justice office and ask for their budget and a detailed list of what organizations they support. Then look up those organizations websites and get ready for a shock. Or ask for the prolife office (we don’t even HAVE ONE in our archdiocese) and see how much they are doing, what is the staff, the budget, the plans.

Catholics in good faith wanting to help the needy have contributed to these funds. Catholics and Protestants together with almost no church leadership have fought abortion from sidewalk protests to adopting babies. The average Catholic or prolifer is not to blame for the “failures” of the prolife movement, the failure rests squarely on the shoulders of the Bishops.

If they lead by education and example, and ordered their wayward priests to also get on board, Catholics, and then our protestant brethren (who instinctively respond to moral truths whatever theological differences), will join us.

But now it’s a disjointed effort of well-intentioned folks running in a hundred different directions. The bishops have the POWER, MONEY and PRESTIGE that if this was THEIR number one priority, all America would eventually be unable to stop avoiding the subject.


42 posted on 12/10/2008 11:07:36 PM PST by baa39 (www.FightFOCA.com - innocent lives depend on you)
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To: baa39

the adoption incentive would reduce abortion as well as the problem of kids raised by women who are simply not capable of being a suitable mother. It’s usually not their fault but it may take an incentive to get them to think: “wait a minute, what am I doing? This isn’t going to work out. I can’t afford to raise my baby properly. So I’ll give him to a family that is willing to adopt.”

The incentive is like an ad: “yes, there is such an option called adoption.” The word will get around as a result (where’s the best place to go for services, etc)

Newt wanted to encourage adoption the other way, by giving a tax credit to couples who choose to adopt. But that doesn’t really make a difference since they are already well off. It’s the poor pregnant girl that needs the money.


43 posted on 12/10/2008 11:07:38 PM PST by ari-freedom (Conservatives solve problems. Libertarians ignore problems. Liberals create problems.)
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To: ari-freedom

And not only money, follow-up medical of some sort, and friends and emotional support, maybe even a “support group” of women who have done this, if there were enough of them, which there certainly could be if abortion were not presented as the only option.

If half the girls going to PP had the adoption option fully explained, fairly as you suggest, I’m sure adoption rates would go up.

But also it’s important the mother has a say about the adoptive family.

A close family member of mine gave up her baby for adoption at age 17, very hard decision. It was thru a private Catholic agency to a young married Catholic couple whom she met beforehand.

It would have been monstrous to her to imagine her child being put in the care of two fags or lesbians. If she did not meet the parents, she never would have relinquished the child, nor do I think her parents would have let her. All agreed adoption was best, it was hard, but they got thru it with the assurance of a nice, safe, good home for the boy. This also was a comfort in later years, that she did the right thing.


44 posted on 12/10/2008 11:31:09 PM PST by baa39 (www.FightFOCA.com - innocent lives depend on you)
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To: baa39

“If half the girls going to PP had the adoption option fully explained, fairly as you suggest, I’m sure adoption rates would go up.”

The pro-life movement seems to be more anti-abortion instead of pro-adoption. We’re going to make all abortions illegal and throw women in jail and what they are doing is evil, etc.

That doesn’t really work with people who are young, scared and confused. So PP comes and says “don’t worry, we care about you. We’re going to save you from the mean old Republicans.” PP offers an easy way out so nobody is going to listen to anyone else, including those who offer adoption as an alternative. Remember, we have to tell them they have to wait 9 months and go into labor to give birth to a baby they won’t even keep. That’s not so easy.


45 posted on 12/10/2008 11:59:39 PM PST by ari-freedom (Conservatives solve problems. Libertarians ignore problems. Liberals create problems.)
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To: WOSG
I do blame the bishops for allowing funds to be used by left-wing organizations that ignore and undermine the life issue. They do not understand the anti-life consequences of their actions.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Too many do understand the anti-life consequences of their action. They do it because:

* They worship Karl Marx before God.

* “Marxism” ( AKA: “Social Justice”) is more important than life.

46 posted on 12/11/2008 3:52:30 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Salvation

Yes, of course, I saw that list, but I’ll bet that not many Catholics did. I would rather have seen the bishops fearlessly outspoken and throwing off the yoke of the “tax-exempt status”. Very public, very “in your face”. In the same way that Obama instructed his supporters to confront voters. I happen to believe that if the Bishops confronted the government on the tax-exempt status, they’d probably win, but, even if they didn’t, so what? Truth is worth far more than gold.


47 posted on 12/11/2008 7:58:40 AM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: baa39; Salvation

“Catholics have been complaining, writing, and even organizing small grass-roots efforts for over TEN YEARS to get the bishops to STOP not just ACORN but all the CCHD BS, which most of it is.

And, I’m sorry to disillusion some good Catholics, it’s not just CCHD. Catholic Charities, Bishops Annual Appeal, many of these things with the fancy posters in the vestibule with pictures of starving kids or whatever, are almost as bad. YOUR MONEY HAS GONE DIRECTLY, via umbrella organizations, to pay for abortions, Democrat fundraisers, global warming causes, feminist groups, homosexual groups, free attorneys for illegals, heretical religious educational materials, consulting fees for “safe environment” classes conducted by groups that support prostitution, pornography, contraception....and more.

Caveat: this is not true in every diocese, but almost all. Burke, Bruskewitz, Vasa have cracked down on this stuff a while ago.”

Please share me links on these activities and related info. I would like to learn more and figure out what can be done to respond, what groups if any are trying to fight this. I have a fight myself in our parish and I want to be well-armed with the facts.


48 posted on 12/11/2008 1:58:03 PM PST by WOSG (Obama - a born in the USA socialist)
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To: wintertime

**“Social Justice”) is more important than life. **

You know that you cannot make a general statement like that about all Catholics or even about all Bishops.

But then, perhaps you got appointed to be God’s judge.

Oh, yeah — some angels got thrown out of heaven for trying such pranks.


49 posted on 12/11/2008 8:11:59 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
Too many do understand the anti-life consequences of their action.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

“Too many” specifically means “not all”. Even **one** is too many.

I am very supportive of Catholics who practice **all** of their religion. I wish we had a nation filled to the brim with them. Eventually, these faithful Catholics will be the source of the reform needed within too many bishoprics.

50 posted on 12/11/2008 9:08:17 PM PST by wintertime
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