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We need crime control --not gun control
National Post ^ | December 13, 2008 | George Jonas

Posted on 12/16/2008 12:13:12 AM PST by neverdem

The terrorist attacks in Mumbai last month claimed some 500 casualties, dead and injured. Among the many questions raised by the outrage, there was a purely practical one: Why was the attack so successful? How could so few terrorists claim so many victims?

One obvious answer is firepower. Guns were illegal in the hands of both the terrorists and the victims. The victims obeyed the laws, the terrorists didn't. The police had guns, of course, but instead of protecting people, they stayed away until the massacre was practically over. Gun laws -- surprise, surprise! -- weren't strong enough to defend victims, only strong enough to keep victims from defending themselves.

India's gun control, one of the strictest in the world, goes back to the 19th century when Britain introduced it to forestall a repetition of the Indian Mutiny. "The guns used in last week's Bombay massacre were all 'prohibited weapons' under Indian law," wrote Richard Munday in the Times Online, "just as they are in Britain." The terrorists were successful because they didn't obey the gun control law rooted in the Raj, while their victims did.

India isn't alone. Many countries, including Canada, have gone out of their way to make criminals as invincible and victims as vulnerable as possible. This isn't the aim, of course, only the result.

"Guns don't kill, people do." The gun lobby's old slogan is true enough, but it's also true that guns make people more efficient killers. That's why gun control would be such a splendid idea if someone could find a way to make criminals and lunatics obey it. Since only law-abiding citizens obey it, it's not such a hot idea. It's more like trying to control stray dogs by neutering veterinarians.

The police carry guns for a reason: They're great tools for...

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalpost.com ...


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Canada; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; gunfreezone; gunfreezones; india; mumbai

1 posted on 12/16/2008 12:13:13 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

if we had armed air marshals and pilots before 9/11, we probably would have avoided that tragedy as well as the 2 wars that followed.


2 posted on 12/16/2008 12:47:34 AM PST by ari-freedom (Conservatives solve problems. Libertarians ignore problems. Liberals create problems.)
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To: neverdem; fanfan; GMMAC; goldstategop

Canada ping.

One thing: I thought it was called the SEPOY Rebellion that triggered the draconian gun laws the Empire placed on India. I had never heard of the Indian Rebellion until this article.

I need to read more Asian history.


3 posted on 12/16/2008 12:51:59 AM PST by Don W (People who think are a threat to socialism)
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To: Don W

Make that Sepoy MUTINY. I better get to bed...


4 posted on 12/16/2008 12:53:08 AM PST by Don W (People who think are a threat to socialism)
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To: neverdem

I’m afraid that the people in power right now understand your argument perfectly well. We’re dealing with traitorous scumbags here who think it’s a constitutional right for Americans to kill their babies but don’t think the constitution guarantees an Americans right to keep and bear arms. Think about it. The enemy is no longer at the gates, he is among us. Prepare for the worst.


5 posted on 12/16/2008 12:57:10 AM PST by RC one
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To: neverdem
The terrorist attacks in Mumbai last month...

How would effective gun laws prevent motivated terrorists from acting?

6 posted on 12/16/2008 12:58:16 AM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
How would effective gun laws prevent motivated terrorists from acting?

They wouldn't. However, assuming CCW was an option, victims could have fought back.

7 posted on 12/16/2008 1:11:28 AM PST by fso301
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To: RC one

Prepare.


8 posted on 12/16/2008 1:19:09 AM PST by Silly (www.QuestionOthority.com)
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To: RC one

“The enemy is no longer at the gates, he is among us. Prepare for the worst.”

That’s a fact.


9 posted on 12/16/2008 3:48:55 AM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: neverdem

I suggest everyone to buy ammo, buy as much as you can, buy even if you do not own a firearm because at the very least you can help supply your friends and neighbors, buy ammo while you can, budget yourself for the next month, most of us needs to go on a diet anyway, buy ammo while you can, you need not know anything about firearms but when asked to defend your country just having the supplies for those that are up front makes you every bit as important and part of the team.

Ranking in popular cartridges:

.223Remington used in most AR rifles and Mini 14
7.62x39 for the SKS and other variants like some AK
.308Winchester
30.06 most common hunting cartridge.
Pistol:
9mm, .38/.357magnum,45acp 22rimfire


10 posted on 12/16/2008 4:00:34 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Americans should lead America, its the right way.)
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To: Eye of Unk

Add 00 buckshot and shotgun slugs to that list !


11 posted on 12/16/2008 4:23:59 AM PST by Renegade (You go tell my buddies)
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To: Renegade

Absolutely!

For the average person that knows little of ammunition just ask for personal defense rounds, say its a Christmas gift.

If somebody gave me a LOT of ammunition as a Christmas gift I would really be touched, usually I just get a new pair of Redwing boots.


12 posted on 12/16/2008 4:30:06 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Americans should lead America, its the right way.)
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To: Eye of Unk
I suggest everyone to buy ammo, buy as much as you can

Think of it as an investment. Even if 0 and his friends are thwarted at every turn and .308 isn't worth $10 a round four years from now, it will probably still cost more than it does today and you can still shoot it, which is fun.

And don't overlook the .22 rimfire family. .22LR is probably the most commonly fired cartridge in America and you can't reload it.

BLOAT! (and learn to reload.)

13 posted on 12/16/2008 4:36:44 AM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Illegal Immigration is not about the immigration. Gun control is not about the guns.)
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To: Eye of Unk

I was really surprised at the amount of .223 in Remington,Winchester and Federal that were still in stock at the Walmart in Mt. Pocono Pa. this weekend .Just had to pick up a few hundred rounds. It put a warm smile on my face as I wished the clerk a Merry Christmas .


14 posted on 12/16/2008 4:38:09 AM PST by Renegade (You go tell my buddies)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

I actually think ammunition if its of the type and quality is in fact a better investment than some precious commodities and obviously better than most schemes floating around, just think of it as something that can be easily sold, has no depreciation for many years if stored properly, can defend your home and even put food on your table.

With near zero interest rates I dare any investment schemes to stand up to that.


15 posted on 12/16/2008 4:41:32 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Americans should lead America, its the right way.)
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To: Don W; GMMAC; Clive; exg; kanawa; backhoe; -YYZ-; Former Proud Canadian; Squawk 8888; ...
Thanks for the ping, Don W.


16 posted on 12/16/2008 4:43:11 AM PST by fanfan (Update on Constitutional Crisis in Canada.....Click user name)
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To: neverdem; exg; Alberta's Child; albertabound; AntiKev; backhoe; Byron_the_Aussie; ...

-


17 posted on 12/16/2008 4:48:49 AM PST by Clive
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To: neverdem
"...gun control would be such a splendid idea if someone could find a way to make criminals and lunatics obey it."

It's such an obvious point that the sheep never see it.

18 posted on 12/16/2008 4:52:21 AM PST by GBA
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To: All

19 posted on 12/16/2008 4:58:11 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Americans should lead America, its the right way.)
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To: Eye of Unk
Most of these popular calibers are, or were, standard issue for our, and/or other military forces.

Surplus military ammunition is available from various countries, including our own. Due to the generally lower cost, it is perfect for practice ammunition. The lower cost, and the way it is often hermetically sealed in "battle packs", ammo cans, etc, makes it better for long term storage.

These are attributes that the left-wing, anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment, anti-freedom, anti-AMERICAN maggots DETEST.

Their euroweenie comrades have gone as far as BANNING most, if not all, such military-related ammunition.

With these anti-gun NAZI's penchant for attacking our 2nd Amendment RIGHTS from all angles, including trying to make ammunition prohibitively expensive by tacking on exorbitant taxes, we MUST stand up against these assholes in a forceful and vigorous way.

In the meantime, buy veritable SH*TLOADS (all you can reasonably afford) of guns, ammunition, and accessories, particularly the stuff they hate or are afraid of (those "evil" and scary - to them - black rifles) in numbers that will force them to realize there are MANY of us law-abiding Patriots out here who will NOT stand for the trampling of our 2nd Amendment RIGHTS, and the effective MEANS to practice those RIGHTS.

20 posted on 12/16/2008 5:12:39 AM PST by DocH (Hussein Obama: Leader of an America-Hating Socialist /Black Nationalist Sleeper Cell)
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To: DocH

here’s a link; good sources ;

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=313837&page=35


21 posted on 12/16/2008 6:28:47 AM PST by piroque
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To: neverdem

“Many countries, including Canada, have gone out of their way to make criminals as invincible and victims as vulnerable as possible. This isn’t the aim, of course, only the result.”

Actually, it is PRECISELY the aim in the minds of many, who simply hate the thought that others may may be socially and/or politically empowered in a way that they, themselves are not. Suc people are too averse to guns qua guns to take the steps necessary for their own personal defense and the defense of their families and loved ones.


22 posted on 12/16/2008 7:30:22 AM PST by Jack Hammer (here)
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To: Don W
I thought it was called the SEPOY Rebellion

It was. "The [Indian] rebellion is also known as India's First War of Independence, the Great Rebellion, the Indian Mutiny, the Revolt of 1857, the Uprising of 1857 and the Sepoy Mutiny". ;-)
23 posted on 12/16/2008 8:23:49 AM PST by caveat emptor ( De gustibus non est disputandum)
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To: neverdem
...gun control would be such a splendid idea if someone could find a way to make criminals and lunatics obey it. Since only law-abiding citizens obey it, it's not such a hot idea. It's more like trying to control stray dogs by neutering veterinarians.

Great post!!! Thanks.

24 posted on 12/16/2008 12:02:17 PM PST by GOPJ (There are no "tough" issues - just "tough" consequences.)
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To: neverdem

New tagline- -
Gun Control:like trying to control stay dogs by neutering veterinarians - Jonas


25 posted on 12/16/2008 12:06:59 PM PST by GOPJ (Gun Control-:- like trying to control stray dogs by neutering veterinarians.- G. Jonas)
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To: ari-freedom
If we had armed air marshals and pilots before 9/11,...it wouldn't have changed a thing. They would have targeted the marshals first and merely delayed the inevitable.

The solution is to isolate the cabin from the cockpit. Take off with cameras watching the cabin. At the slightest hint of trouble, drop the cabin pressure and it's lights out for everyone. Then have your air marshals go and sort out the good from the bad.

26 posted on 12/16/2008 12:19:56 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Democrats: the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy and Sedition)
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To: Ouderkirk

“If we had armed air marshals and pilots before 9/11,...it wouldn’t have changed a thing. They would have targeted the marshals first and merely delayed the inevitable.”

nobody knows who the marshals are. Israel has been doing this for years. Of course you can’t just give them guns and assume they can handle it. They have to specifically train for shooting terrorists on a plane.

No, I don’t think taking out the cabin pressure is such a great idea.


27 posted on 12/16/2008 2:17:38 PM PST by ari-freedom (Conservatives solve problems. Libertarians ignore problems. Liberals create problems.)
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To: ari-freedom

You just don’t get on an El Al flight...like you would any other airline. Having flown El Al it’s pretty intimidating when you go to the check-in. And there is a certain security in having passed the screening.

Dropping the cabin pressure, is the way to go. Everyone passes out for a few minutes and your marshals can move in and take control immediately without having to sort out the dynamics.

As a person who regularly concealed carries, I can spot who’s packin’ and who’s not almost immediately. Just one of those things that you learn to take notice of.


28 posted on 12/16/2008 5:37:39 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Democrats: the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy and Sedition)
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To: piroque
Thanks for the link.

The "shelves' appear to be emptying.

29 posted on 12/17/2008 8:16:30 AM PST by DocH (Hussein Obama: Leader of an America-Hating Socialist /Black Nationalist Sleeper Cell)
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To: neverdem
How could so few terrorists claim so many victims?

Well, a little math explains.

500 victims / 10 terrorists = 50 victims per terrorist.

Considering that the attack started in extremely crowded areas, and proceeded for three days, the numbers are not surprising. If any surprise is to be had, it is that the casualties were not higher. Averaging considerably less than one victim per hour across the ordeal, one may wonder that more ... er ... efficient means were not used.

30 posted on 12/17/2008 8:24:11 AM PST by ctdonath2 (I AM JOE THE PLUMBER!)
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