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HOW FAR-REACHING ARE PRESIDENTIAL EXECUTIVE ORDERS?
SELF | 12-23-08 | self

Posted on 12/23/2008 3:39:44 PM PST by Jerrybob

So I'm wondering just what the POTUS can and cannot do with executive orders. Could Obama, for example, to throw out a hypothetical, really wild example, sign an executive order that does away with the Concealed Carry laws in all the states that have them?

Just wondering.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; agenda; banglist; bho2008; bhobanglist; eo; gunrights; guns

1 posted on 12/23/2008 3:39:44 PM PST by Jerrybob
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To: Jerrybob

William the Impeached was going to rule the nation with them.


2 posted on 12/23/2008 3:41:09 PM PST by Old Sarge (For the first time in my life, I am ashamed to be an American)
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To: Jerrybob
I think the SC would shoot holes through that after their ruling this summer....
3 posted on 12/23/2008 3:41:48 PM PST by rightwingextremist1776
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To: Jerrybob

The EO pertains to business of the Executive Branch.


4 posted on 12/23/2008 3:42:00 PM PST by RightWhale (We were so young two years ago and the DJIA was 12,000)
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To: Jerrybob

Good way to spark CW II


5 posted on 12/23/2008 3:42:41 PM PST by Renegade (You go tell my buddies)
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To: Old Sarge

Executive Orders are designed for the Executive Branch. For example any government office created and funded by Congress is run by the President so he can issue executive orders telling that department what to do.

He can’t have any impact on state laws.


6 posted on 12/23/2008 3:43:16 PM PST by Patrick1 (conform and celebrate diversity¬Ö.or else!!!)
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To: Jerrybob

“Stroke of the pen; law of the land. Pretty cool.” — Klintonite Tyrant-in-waiting.


7 posted on 12/23/2008 3:44:03 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Jerrybob

“Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool!”


8 posted on 12/23/2008 3:44:28 PM PST by ScreamingFist (Annihilation - The result of underestimating your enemies. NRA)
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To: Jerrybob

The Congress has the power to pass laws; the President does not. Executive Orders are binding only on the Executive Branch of Government, not on private citizens, and even then, are binding only if they are consistent with Congressionally-enacted laws.


9 posted on 12/23/2008 3:44:55 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Still Thinking

Got me 25 seconds....LOL


10 posted on 12/23/2008 3:45:36 PM PST by ScreamingFist (Annihilation - The result of underestimating your enemies. NRA)
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To: Jerrybob

I’d think they can go pretty far. The presumption these days, as opposed to he days near the founding of the Republic, is that if it sounds like a law, you have to obey it. Since according to the Constitution the powers allowed to the government were enumerated, laws were more of a “show me” affair back then.

No matter how outrageous the EO, you might have a long battle to show it was unconstitutionally issued, or that there was, to copy Al Gore, no other “controlling legal authority.”


11 posted on 12/23/2008 3:47:39 PM PST by Pearls Before Swine (Is /sarc really necessary?)
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To: Jerrybob
I recall Bush used an executive order to ban the importation of certain so called assault weapons. It seems to me that he simply made law.

totally against the spirit, (and probably the letter) of the Constitution.

12 posted on 12/23/2008 3:49:36 PM PST by yarddog
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To: ScreamingFist; Still Thinking; Jerrybob
"Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool!"

The scumbag who actually uttered those words first was Paul 'The Forehead' Begala.
13 posted on 12/23/2008 3:49:36 PM PST by mkjessup
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To: Old Sarge

He did. He is responsible for much of the corruption we see now.


14 posted on 12/23/2008 3:49:37 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: Jerrybob; Congressman Billybob
He could probably have NHTSA make some percentage of federal highway funds contingent on the lack of CCW laws or on states having random checkpoints for "illegal" firearms.

This is an example of why federal grants-with-strings must be stopped. By offering to pay, the feds implicitly admit they're too far outside their Constitutional sandbox to simply mandate compliance, which in turn demonstrates that they're controlling funds in excess of the amount necessary to carry out their proper functions. Ergo, they owe us a refund.

15 posted on 12/23/2008 3:49:39 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: ScreamingFist

Beat ya by that much! < / Maxwell Smart voice >


16 posted on 12/23/2008 3:50:38 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Jerrybob
Well, here are some interesting XOs (and they ain't kisses & hugs, that's for damn sure) for use in an unlimited state of national emergency, aka 'martial law':

Executive Order 10995: All communications media will be brought under control of the Federal Government. Radio, TV, Newspapers, CB, Short Wave/Ham Radios, Telephones, including the Internet will be under federal oversight.

Executive Order 10997: All electrical power, fuels, and all minerals can be seized by the federal government if deemed necessary by virute of a national emergency.

Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. Hoarding food will be prohibited.

Executive Order 10999: All modes of transportation will be under federal control. Any vehicle can be temporarily or permanently appropriated/seized for federal use without compensation to the original owner.

Executive Order 11000: All civilians will be eligible for recruitment into federally supervised work operations.

Executive Order 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens and residents, businesses, and churches, superceding any and all state, county or local laws and regulations.

Executive Order 12919: Directs Cabinet officials designated by the President to be constantly ready to assume control over all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency.

Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to assume statutory and managerial control over all government agencies in time of emergency, excluding the armed forces. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government.

Executive Order 12656: Assignment of Emergency Preparedness Responsibilities, definitions: "A national emergency is any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States. Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President." This order provides for the federal takeover of all local law enforcement agencies, the establishment of wage and price controls, the freezing of assets intended for transfer into or out of the United States, provides for the activation of a military draft by the Selective Service Commission, and controls all travel in and out of the United States (this is already in place, obviously).
17 posted on 12/23/2008 4:07:08 PM PST by mkjessup
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To: Jerrybob
Between Treaties and Executive orders, they can
override all of our constitution.

Bring back the “Bricker Amendment”!

18 posted on 12/23/2008 4:07:44 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Obama, Change America will die for.)
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To: mkjessup

Does Rush still call him that? :)


19 posted on 12/23/2008 4:07:48 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: Old Sarge
William the Impeached...

So many nick names for Bubba, but that is a gem!

LOL!

20 posted on 12/23/2008 4:09:57 PM PST by Churchillspirit
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To: EveningStar

If not, he oughta be! Begala is one of the most pathetic of all the Clintonoids, he lies, and lies shamelessly, he is a supreme horse’s ass (w/apologies to all the other more honorable horse’s asses).


21 posted on 12/23/2008 4:12:47 PM PST by mkjessup
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To: mkjessup

Scary indeed.


22 posted on 12/23/2008 4:13:13 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: Jerrybob

I remember the few days after 9/11, given another attack on US soil it could give POTUS the power to do almost anything if he felt it was a danger to himself, America or to prevent riots and hysteria.

Obama is already placing troops across the country quietly right now.


23 posted on 12/23/2008 4:16:19 PM PST by Eye of Unk (How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words! SA)
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To: Jerrybob
Executive orders are as binding upon members of the executive branch as are laws provided the executive order violates no law.
24 posted on 12/23/2008 4:17:14 PM PST by MIchaelTArchangel
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To: mkjessup
Seeing him and Car-vile side by side looks like a scene from Aliens Invade the Accountant's Office
25 posted on 12/23/2008 4:18:10 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Jerrybob

There isn’t much talk about Executive Orders when there is a Republican President in office. This is starting to get repetitive.


26 posted on 12/23/2008 4:19:37 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: Jerrybob

Rapes will skyrocket.


27 posted on 12/23/2008 4:29:44 PM PST by BorisTheBulletDodger (Bang!)
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To: Still Thinking; ScreamingFist; mkjessup

Lads you almost have it right, but you missed it by that much. It’s - “Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kinda cool.”


28 posted on 12/23/2008 5:21:57 PM PST by Enterprise (No Presidency for illegal aliens from Kenya.)
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To: Enterprise

Reminiscent of “Power corrupts. Absolute power...is actually pretty neat!” ;-)


29 posted on 12/23/2008 5:24:51 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Eye of Unk

Bet they make great targets when they smile in the moonlight .


30 posted on 12/23/2008 5:33:02 PM PST by Renegade (You go tell my buddies)
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To: Eye of Unk
Obama is already placing troops across the country quietly right now.

For the moment, Zero can't order troops to spit let alone deploy them anywhere. Only the CiC can do that, and he won't hold the title until January.

31 posted on 12/23/2008 5:47:55 PM PST by AFreeBird
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To: Enterprise
Lads you almost have it right, but you missed it by that much. It’s - “Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kinda cool.”

Well, the particulars not withstanding, it's still the mentality of a fascist, true?
32 posted on 12/23/2008 6:01:35 PM PST by mkjessup
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To: Jerrybob

George W. Bush (2001-Present)
EO’s 13198 - 13483 | Subject Index

William J. Clinton (1993-2001)
EO’s 12834-13197 | Subject Index

George Bush (1989-1993)
EO’s 12668-12833

Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
EO’s 12287-12667

Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
EO’s 11967-12286

Gerald R. Ford (1974-1977)
EO’s 11798-11966

Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
EO’s 11452-11797

Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
EO’s 11128-11451

John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
EO’s 10914-11127

Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
EO’s 10432-10913

Harry S. Truman (1945-1953)
EO’s 9538-10431

Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
EO’s 6071-9537

Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
EO’s 5075-6070
1,011 EO’s issued


33 posted on 12/23/2008 6:03:22 PM PST by Born In America (Warning: Use liberals only under close conservative supervision.....)
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To: Lurking Libertarian

IIRC, A presidential executive order becomes law, simply by it’s publication in the Federal Registry, bypassing congress.

http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/jfkeo/exonum.htm
JFK Executive Orders

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/clinton-subjects.html
Clinton Executive Orders
During his two terms as president, Bill Clinton averaged about one executive order each week. By doing so, he was able to effectively legislate from the Oval Office.

Just on Jimmy Carter’s last day in office alone, the Federal Register (a daily summation of new rules for the executive branch) was three times its normal size. The regulations drafted by President Carter and numerous lame-duck regulators earned the nickname: midnight regulations. By the time all the dust settled, it was estimated that President Carter added about 24,500 pages of last-minute regulations. President Clinton surpassed that record with over 30,000 pages of new regulations in the last 90 days.
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/c-execorders.html

President Reagan came into office and put an immediate freeze on Jimmy Carter’s midnight regulations. But when it came time to begin to reverse these orders, President Reagan found himself thwarted by federal courts that ruled that existing regulations could not be arbitrarily ignored or revoked. Instead, they required that new regulations be crafted to reverse old ones.
(ibid)

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/wbush-subjects.html
GW Bush Executive Orders
also: NSPD51
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html

also, - Jerome Corsi, WND, appearing on CSpan, Washington Journal May 29, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlB966zQIZ4
Bush approves new emergency act by Presidential Order (NSPD51 & HSPD20), “shadow government”, “economic integration with the EU” “control of govt down to tribal level”. NSP = National Security; HSP = Homeland Security - dated May 9, 2007

best regards, blu


34 posted on 12/23/2008 6:32:15 PM PST by blueplum
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To: Still Thinking
This is an example of why federal grants-with-strings must be stopped.

Undo the 17th Amendment and I think you'd have relatively little trouble with grants-with-strings. For years now I've been angered by the way my state's legislature dances to those marionette strings.

35 posted on 12/23/2008 6:37:57 PM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: Jerrybob

I’d love for somebody to bring up that the Bill of Rights is a constraint on the government. Second Amendment not allowing the federal government to infringe on our natural right to self-defense. That every federal firearms law is illegal, unlawful and unconstitutional.


36 posted on 12/23/2008 9:07:10 PM PST by wastedyears ("Life's tough... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
The Congress has the power to pass laws; the President does not. Executive Orders are binding only on the Executive Branch of Government, not on private citizens, and even then, are binding only if they are consistent with Congressionally-enacted laws.

Lurking,I don't mean to be rude, but those in office really, truly don't care about what is legal and what isn't. They rule by fiat.

37 posted on 12/23/2008 9:08:59 PM PST by wastedyears ("Life's tough... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne)
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To: mkjessup; Still Thinking
"Well, the particulars not withstanding, it's still the mentality of a fascist, true? "

Hey now - don't get me started! :^)

38 posted on 12/24/2008 4:13:58 AM PST by Enterprise (No Presidency for illegal aliens from Kenya.)
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To: Enterprise

You don’t need anybody to get you started, I’ve seen your posts before, LOL (that’s a compliment)


39 posted on 12/24/2008 5:30:48 AM PST by mkjessup
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To: rightwingextremist1776
I think the SC would shoot holes through that after their ruling this summer....

In no way does the Heller decision imply that ccw laws are a part of the 2nd Amendment. They (the High Court) were pretty specific about that in their opinion. Nor did they put the 2nd into the status of "incorporation" which would force the states and local jurisdictions to recognize the federal mandates.

Any EO has to be published into the Federal Register for 90 days before it becomes law. Any state can oppose it during this time via the Senators or Congressional representatives. There have been EO's halted this way in the past, most notably during the Clinton regime.

I very much doubt that "O" is going to be successful in issuing such a restrictive order in a non-emergency situation. But therein lies his secret to a successful coup. All he needs is a huge emergency like a terrorist attack or a huge natural disaster like a tsunami that struck multiple states along the eastern seaboard. Possibly an economic meltdown that saw rioting in multiple states.... Come to think of it, I've suddenly seen DIRE warnings of just exactly this scenario taking place..... Think his minions in the media are greasing the way by prepping the populace for draconian solutions?

40 posted on 12/24/2008 6:20:03 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: mkjessup

ROFL - Thanks! And Merry Christmas!


41 posted on 12/24/2008 8:19:51 AM PST by Enterprise (No Presidency for illegal aliens from Kenya.)
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To: Patrick1
No impact on private citizens or state law? You sure about that? What about the multitude of EO's that are CLASSIFIED in nature and therefore unpublished to the populace but still enacted under congressional scrutiny and actually survived that process. See I think there HAS to be a process by which order in maintained while suffering a cataclysmic incident, be it natural disaster or man made (American Hiroshima?).

Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:...

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter...

National Security Act of 1947 allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities.

1950 Defense Production Act gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy.

Act of August 29, 1916 authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency.

International Emergency Economic Powers Act enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979.

42 posted on 12/24/2008 11:07:38 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: wastedyears
So would I. Why is no one doing this? It seems we (meaning NRA, GOA and all the other gun rights groups) wait until another draconian law is passed and then bring suit.

Why not sue the feds for infringing on our Second Amendment rights, which, after all, are not GIVEN by government at all, but are endowed by our Creator?

43 posted on 12/25/2008 8:52:52 AM PST by Jerrybob
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To: Jerrybob
Merry Christmas.

So would I. Why is no one doing this? It seems we (meaning NRA, GOA and all the other gun rights groups) wait until another draconian law is passed and then bring suit.

Not only must we wait for this process to run it's course but we must ALSO wait for somebody to run afoul of the law, be arrested and LOSE in court before an appeal can be filed and the law THEN challenged. Stupid, huh? Sometimes a law can be challenged directly as being "void for vagueness" on it's face. Otherwise ya gotta go thru the process and then pray YOU'RE NOT THE TEST CASE! Because that poor misbegotten creature will have his entire life on the line and he's got to win or lose it all.

Why not sue the feds for infringing on our Second Amendment rights, which, after all, are not GIVEN by government at all, but are endowed by our Creator?

Look up this term in a legal dictionary: "STANDING" and apply it to a case and you'll see why it's not done. This is the main reason all the suits against Obama failed to force him to reveal his birth documents.

Happy New Year! Enjoy that celebration, because things will start rolling downhill for us all on the 20th of January.

44 posted on 12/25/2008 6:51:07 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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