An M1A2 Abrams (our tank) 
Considering our tank has been around since the mid 80s, which would you rather drive, an '86 Cadillac, or an 2009 Mercedes Benz?
Posted on 12/27/2008 1:20:17 PM PST by Clive
BAZAR-E PANJWAII, Afghanistan - After more than a year of rumbling across the bomb-scarred roads and dusty plains of southern Afghanistan, positive reviews are coming in on the 62-tonne Leopard 2 tanks used by the Canadian Forces.
The Canadian army borrowed 20 Leopard A6Ms from the Germans in the summer of 2007 to quickly replace its own nearly 30-year-old Leopard tanks which were not suited for use in Afghanistan.
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The military has since completed a deal to buy an additional 100 surplus tanks from the Dutch, and will return the loaners once the newer tanks are delivered.
The Leopard 2 tanks offer more firepower, better landmine protection, longer range and better mobility.
"We're dealing with the best main battle tank in the world right now," said tank troop leader Capt. Tim Day, from the Lord Strathcona's Horse armoured regiment based in Edmonton.
"We've got more mobility due to the size. We've got less concerns of damage to the equipment. It's a big beast and can go where it wants to really," he added.
Although it's not ideal for a lot of the terrain in southern Afghanistan, the tank's size and power offer an intimidation factor in skirmishes with the Taliban.
In Kandahar province, insurgents have rarely targeted tanks with roadside bombs - the biggest threat facing Canadian troops.
Instead, the Taliban have more frequently used improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, against lighter armoured vehicles - troop-transport vehicles that are more vulnerable to such attacks.
"It's the demonstration of force that we can provide that is just talking without having to talk," explained Day, who operates out of a Canadian forward operating base in the Panjwaii district.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnews.canoe.ca ...
Canada was using the Leopard C2 which was a C1 turret modified to C2 level.
These tanks were deployed to Kandahgar and proved their worth to some extent but were unsuitable for the Afghan summer.
Canada proposed to lease 20 Leopard2 A6M tanks from Germany. Instead, Germany loaned them to Canada. They were flown from Germany to Kandahar
Canada has bought 100 older Leopard2 A4 tanks from the Netherlands, to be upgraded to A6 level.
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Best main battle tank? What about ours?
Because our poor Canadian cousins have to shop at “Crazy Fritz’s” used armored vehicle store because the Canadian Government is so pinch penny and cheap. Need all of that money for crappy socialist programs.
You should be using the past tense. We’re playing catch up, after Liberal governments starved the military for decades.
God Bless! Going to need everything on tracks if the Chinese get past Vancouver. Pretty flat country.
We’ll just buy what we need from China, at a discount.
Oh, wait a minute....
Just don’t buy anything to eat! ;^)
They wouldn’t want to tell their troops that they traveling around in the second or third best tank now would they?
TTIWWOP!
An M1A2 Abrams (our tank)
Considering our tank has been around since the mid 80s, which would you rather drive, an '86 Cadillac, or an 2009 Mercedes Benz?
Both use a 120mm smoothbore gun made by Rheinmetall. The Leopard is slightly larger. The US tank uses a gas turbine engine with slightly more published horsepower than the German's diesel. The Germans have significantly more range, and is marginally faster on the highway. The US tank has one more machine gun. They are both modern variants of designs that are the same age.
Except for the difference in engine philosophy, they are pretty much an even match and the crew would make the difference if they went head to head.
But I'd never underestimate German armor.
The Leopard and the Abrams are of similar late cold war vintage. The L2 and the A2 are also contemporaries.
Treadhead ping?
“an ‘86 Cadillac, or an 2009 Mercedes Benz?”
Proven technology with upgrades or new unproven technology. When my life depends on it, I’ll take proven.
Well we know our tank performs well in battle. Does the leopard? Considering the quality of german imports these days I’m not so sure the vaunted German engineering is what it used to be.
The M1 Abrams has been improved as well. Aside from the 120mm gun, the M1A1 had improved depleted uranium and composite armor.
The M1A2 production began in 1992, featuring the improved armor of the M1A1 and a new thermal viewing and targeting system. The M1A2 SEP was developed with a third generation of armor, and we have been upgrading our front line tanks to this standard. Based on urban combat experience, we developed the Tank Urban Survival Kit (TUSK) upgrade to the M1A2, which features slat armor, new reactive armor tiles.
Despite the improvements, we are dealing with 30+ year old designs. Some of our allies have newer main battle tanks using similar or newer technology. South Korea is beginning production of the K2 Black Panther, which has the Rheinmetal 120mm L55 gun, as well as new composite armor, spaced armor, explosive and non-explosive reactive armor. Supposedly, it can survive multiple hits from the L55 cannon, which has greater range and velocity, but the same ammunition as the M1A2 and Leopard 2. They are developing an anti-missile system.
Israel has already fielded an anti-missile system, which it uses on its Merkava 4 tanks. It did so after 18 were damaged in the recent Lebanon conflict, although only 2 were actually destroyed. (You find a tank that can survived a 500 pound bomb used as a mine)
The British Challenger 2 was fielded in the 1990s with their own L30 rifled 120mm cannon and Dorchester armor, the follow on the Chobham used on early M1 and Leopard 2s.
The French LeClerk was fielded in the in the 1990s.
The Chinese Type 90 and Type 99 are newer tanks, but as for their quality, who knows?
The Pakistanis use a variant of the Type 90, the Al-Khalid and the Indians have the Arjun and the Russian T-90S. It is conceivable that we could see these in action soon.
I don’t see us upgrading anytime soon. Hopefully we have what we need for the next few years.
They must buy the votes of their non-English speaking, limp wrist ed, non-working cheese eaters. While those who do the work that powers the nation are taxed down to below the entiteled's level of living to pay for it all. Sound familiar?
You forgotto mention the Ariete MBT.
My apologies to the Italians. I also failed to mention the Japanese version of the Abrams.
You sure know yer tanks!
I think fire control is really the deciding factor today. The Abrams can fire at moving targets while it is also moving at top speeds. I’m not sure what the fire capabilities are on a Leopard or a British Challenger.
thank you...
Challenger is supposed to be competitive as far as fire control goes. I believe the L2 is as well.
I’ve spoken to some of the guys that did the evaluations for the Aussie Army’s recent tank purchase. The L2 and the M1 are pretty closely matched and it could have gone either way but we ended up going with the M1 due to a better support package and battle proven performance.
Modern tanks are able to do that.
Anyways, the best tanks in the World (and country of origin) are the:
- Leopard 2 (Germany)
- Abrams (US)
- Challenger 2 (UK)
Now, as to which is better than the other ....that is difficult. All 3 are at such a high level of competence, that they can be considered to be equal. Add to this great training for the German, American and British tankers, as well as more or less the same combat doctrine, and saying which is 'better' would be like comparing a red corvette against a blue corvette against a black corvette. At that level of performance, it all boils down to taste, support, and price considerations.
Also, each of them were supposed to be analogues of each other, in some cases close analogues. The Leo and the Abrams were at one point not meant to be ...both countries would have gone for the defunct MBT-70 (I am relying on memory, thus that name might be wrong). Hence you would expect both tanks to be very very similar. Furthermore, it's been said that the Abrams using British Armor and a German Gun. All 3 have more or less the same armor (although they have each improved, with the British moving from their Chobham to Dorchester, the Abrams having depleted uranium in key areas, and the Germans pushing the envelop on composites). Suffice it to say, you will need a big bomb-as-landmine to destroy one, although tanks have began to lose the battle against the latest missiles (which is why you are seeing them take the same approach the Russians had to against Western missiles ...active missile defence, which seeks to shoot down incoming missiles with projectiles. Now the tables seem to be on the other side, with Israel and the US now seeking active defensive systems like Trophy and Iron Hand to defend against the latest generation ATGMs). Anyways, you cannot get better armor than on those 3 tanks. The guns are all of the same capability (though the brits still use a rifled gun, but to great effect). The people manning the tanks are all professionals ....a Brit, American or German tanker cannot be compared to some Russian or other. Support for the tanks is also top-notch, both in terms of direct infantry support, as well as repair and mechanical support. As for the weapons used, all 3 use kinetic penetrators that can go through a T-72 (the only difference being that the Abrams uses one with depleted uranium, while the other 2 use tungsten ....all will go through an enemy tank, all will self-sharpen as they go through metal, all are dense metals, all will kill any crew inside). As far as systems ....all have the latest.
Thus, is the Leopard 2 the best tank in the World? Well, yes it is!
However, so is the Abrams, and the Chally 2.
A 3-way tie for number one.
well said... agreed, on any given day any one could win against the other. i guess i'm just a little partial to the firecontrol aspect as i worked for a company that made the vga-crt that is in the M1 gunners and commanders viewfinders
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