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Why Arabs Believe In Force Fields (Interesting!)
Strategy Page ^ | December 26, 2008

Posted on 01/02/2009 12:07:35 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Many Pakistanis now believe that the recent Islamic terrorist attack in Mumbai, India, was the work of the Israeli Mossad, or the American CIA. Such fantasies are a common explanation, in Moslem nations, for Islamic terrorist atrocities. Especially when women and children, and Moslems, are among the victims, other Moslems tend to accept fantastic explanations shifting the blame to infidels (non-Moslems).

Conspiracies are not unique to the Moslem world, but they are much more common there. After the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States, many Moslems again blamed Israel. A favorite variation of this is that, before the attacks on the World Trade Center, a secret message went out to all Jews in the area to stay away. Another variation has it that the 19 attackers (all of them Arab, 15 from Saudi Arabia) were really not Arabs, but falsely identified as part of the Israeli deception. In the United States, some Americans insist that the attack was the work of the U.S. government, complete with the World Trade Center towers being brought down by prepositioned explosive charges. While few Americans accept this, the Moslem fantasies are widely accepted in the Moslem world. Even Western educated Arabs, speaking good English, will casually express, and accept, these tales of the Israeli Mossad staging the attacks, to trick the U.S. into attacking Afghanistan and Iraq. Americans are shocked at this, but the Moslems expressing these beliefs just shrug.

American troops arriving in Iraq go through a real culture shock as they encounter these cultural difference. They also discover that the cause of this, and many other Arab problems, is the concept of "inshallah" ("If God wills it.") This is a basic tenet of Islam, although some scholars believe the attitude preceded that religion. In any event, "inshallah" is deadly when combined with modern technology. For this reason, Arab countries either have poorly maintained infrastructure and equipment (including military stuff), or import a lot of foreigners, possessing the right attitudes, to maintain everything. That minority of Arabs who do have the right attitude towards maintenance and personal responsibility are considered odd, but useful.

The "inshallah" thing is made worse by a stronger belief in the supernatural, and magic in general. This often extends to technology. Thus many Iraqis believe that American troops wear sunglasses that see through clothing, and armor vests that are actually air conditioned. When they first encounter these beliefs, U.S. troops thought the Arabs are putting them on. Then it sinks in that Arabs really believe this stuff. It's a scary moment.

However, many troops learn to live with, and even exploit, these odd beliefs. When troops at one base discovered that they weren't being attacked much, because many of the locals believed that the base was surrounded by a force field, the troops would casually make reference to their force field, when they were outside the wire and among the locals. This reinforced the force field myth, and made the base safer. Other troops would invent new fantasies, like a pretending that a handheld bit of military electronics was actually a mind reading device. That often made interrogations go a lot quicker. Not all Arabs believe in this stuff, and those that didn't and worked for the Americans, often as an interpreter, could only shrug their shoulders when asked about it.

This easy acceptance of fantasies is exploited by leaders throughout the Middle East, and the Moslem world in general. Leaders who know better, build on these fantasies as a way to maintain their control over the population. The problem is a dirty little secret in the Moslem world, that leaders and academics don't even like to discuss it openly, much less with infidels. But it is real, and you can read all about it in the local media, or overhear it in the coffee shops.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: arabs; forcefields; india; inshallah; iraq; islam; jihad; mumbai; muslims; pakistan; quran
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To: Lexinom
From a metaphysical/philosophical starting point, this is a rather fascinating area of study, the type of thing men devote entire lives to.

A similar theory pervades computer science circles. The theory being that reality is a computer simulation, and that for that spear fliying through the air to move, somewhere a command to copy from one location to another in memory is constantly running.

While reality isn't a computer simulation, IMO, it does bear some resemblance. This is what quantum physicists study. Schroedinger's cat and all that stuff.
101 posted on 01/03/2009 4:20:21 PM PST by JamesP81 (Let the Great RINO Hunt of 2009 begin)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
For this reason, Arab countries either have poorly maintained infrastructure and equipment (including military stuff), or import a lot of foreigners, possessing the right attitudes, to maintain everything.

IOW, they don't work and then are honestly surprised when all the roads fall apart.
102 posted on 01/03/2009 4:21:48 PM PST by JamesP81 (Let the Great RINO Hunt of 2009 begin)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Wait’ll they see our tractor beam.


103 posted on 01/03/2009 5:41:45 PM PST by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the 1930's.)
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To: FARS

Thanks for the ping!


104 posted on 01/03/2009 9:27:12 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: muawiyah

The Germans developed so much new tech that is why everyone was in such a hurry to get all their national intellectual property. Why do you think that we bent over backwards with operation paperclip to get all that knowledge why do you think that Ike made that farewell speech warning us about the industrial military complex? There is so much you don’t know about 2nd world war and what was developed because you have bought the USA legend.


105 posted on 01/04/2009 12:58:06 AM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: guitarplayer1953
Atom bombs are a different matter. All of them sit there quietly emitting radiation of a particular type that can be readily detected with pretty simple equipment.

If the Germans had come up with the atom bomb we'd have found it.

106 posted on 01/04/2009 6:45:31 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SolidWood

Maybe we want to use up everybody elses oil first and we’ll be one of the few countries to have any left?


107 posted on 01/04/2009 6:51:05 AM PST by Freedom Dignity n Honor (There are permanent moral truths.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

108 posted on 01/05/2009 9:10:47 AM PST by pabianice
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
For this reason, Arab countries either have poorly maintained infrastructure and equipment (including military stuff), or import a lot of foreigners, possessing the right attitudes, to maintain everything. That minority of Arabs who do have the right attitude towards maintenance and personal responsibility are considered odd, but useful.

This attitude made it into Latin American culture (que sera, sera) through the Moorish occupation of Spain. I know of one guy who was a mechanic in the Dominican Republic who was always thought strange for keeping the machines in his care in daily maintenance.
109 posted on 01/05/2009 9:22:20 AM PST by aruanan
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To: kb2614

110 posted on 01/05/2009 9:32:33 AM PST by Revolting cat! (Don't rush to be savage!.)
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To: Mobile Vulgus

“Dumbing down” a populace takes various forms. Mohammed capitalized on an already nihilistic Arab culture and invented a cult that would produce centuries of ignorant useful idiots. Imagine if Soros/Ayers et al and the NEA had gotten started a thousand years ago and there’d been no monks to hand-copy and preserve civilization? We would all be toiling under the leftist version of the cult of mohammedism ourselves.


111 posted on 01/05/2009 9:50:47 AM PST by visualops (portraits.artlife.us or visit my freeper page)
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To: jwparkerjr

Great plan, it also sounds like what a friend of ours said they have been doing in Iraq. Securing an area, restoring power and other utilities, getting the hospitals and schools going- encouraging businesses to open, providing jobs and expanding this to other areas as security allowed. Many of the areas we have done this with haven’t had these services since before Sadam took control. He controlled areas that he didn’t think supported him by denying them any services. This is what we are doing in Iraq, as much as possible with some great success stories- the media won’t tell you about it though.


112 posted on 01/05/2009 10:13:54 AM PST by Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)
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To: muawiyah

Actually they have.


113 posted on 01/06/2009 2:07:30 AM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; CarrotAndStick; sukhoi-30mki

The Mooz think that India planned and carried out the attackes on itself. All the evidence and proof to the contrary dont’ convince them...


114 posted on 01/06/2009 4:01:55 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: guitarplayer1953
It is truly a shame that a civilization that once contributed to mathematics and other academia have been forced to live in the dark ages due to a control of knowledge which truly is a form of mental slavery.

That "civilisation" never did anything of that sort. It was Indian-hindu, Greek and Armenian and IRaqi/Assyrian and Egyptian-Coptic Christians and Zoroastrian Iranis who did all of this. All those "Arab numerals" are really developed in India and then passed on to Europe
115 posted on 01/06/2009 4:03:35 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: dennisw; guitarplayer1953

It’s not even Korn-study but rote-memorisation of the texts.


116 posted on 01/06/2009 4:06:16 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: ffff; TheWasteLand
they got a car and it runs on water man

Seriously -- the first automobiles DID run on water, more accurately, on steam.
117 posted on 01/06/2009 4:30:04 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Dajjal; nuconvert; SunkenCiv; TigerLikesRooster; Straight Vermonter; blam; ...
That is one of the explanations another is this one:

Genetic disorders in the Arab world

Available evidence suggests that congenital and genetic disorders are responsible for a major proportion of infant mortality, morbidity, and handicap in Arab countries. The population of the region is characterised by large family size, high maternal and paternal age, and a high level of inbreeding with consanguinity rates in the range of 25-60%.


Average rates of marriages between first cousins among Arabs. UAE=United Arab Emirates


BMJ 2006;333:831-834 (21 October), doi:10.1136/bmj.38982.704931.AE
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7573/831

118 posted on 01/06/2009 4:32:40 AM PST by AdmSmith
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To: Straight Vermonter
The Arabs only conquered the advanced civilizations like the Assyrians. The Arabs themselves contributed little to science and the conquered areas soon turned away from the pursuit of knowledge leaving what you find today.

Very good point. What happened to the civilisations that got this virus of Izzlamm? Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Byzantium, Aram (Syria), Phoenicia, Berbers (remember +Augustine was from north Africa), etc.
119 posted on 01/06/2009 4:33:00 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: samtheman

Read the Hadiths where the Profit says that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Now since the profit said this, good moos say this MUST be true.


120 posted on 01/06/2009 4:34:27 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: samtheman
Read the Hadiths where the Profit says that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Now since the profit said this, good moos say this MUST be true.

This hadîth is found in Sahîh al-Bukhârî (3199, 7424). Its text, as related by Abû Dharr al-Ghifârî, is as follows: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to me: “O Abû Dharr! Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?”

I said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He said: “It goes until it prostrates beneath the Throne. Then it seeks permission and permission is granted to it. Soon it will prostrate and it will not be accepted from it, and seek permission and will not be granted permission. It will be said to it: ‘Go back where you came from.’ Then it will rise from its setting place. This is Allah’s statement: ‘And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement. That is the determination of the Mighty the Knowing. [Sûrah YâSîn: 38]’.”

It is also found in Sahîh Muslim (159,205). Its text, as related by Abû Dharr al-Ghifârî, is as follows:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said one day: “Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?”

They said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He said: “It goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: ‘Arise! Go back from whence you came.’ Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: ‘Arise! Go back from whence you came.’ Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes without people finding anything wrong with it until it arrives at that place of settlement it has beneath the throne. Then it will be told: ‘Arise! Enter upon the morning rising from your setting place’.”

Then Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “Do you know when that will be? It will be when ‘its faith will not avail a soul which had not believed before or earned some good from its faith. [Sûrah al-An`âm: 157]’.”

The hadîth is also found in Sahîh al-Bukhârî in a highly abridged form (4803, 7433). Its text reads:

I asked the Prophet (peace be upon him) about Allah’s statement: “And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement... [Sûrah YâSîn: 38]”.

He said: “Its place of settlement is beneath the throne (of Allah Almighty).”


121 posted on 01/06/2009 4:37:15 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Lightfinger
The Islamic world was superior in technology in the age of the Crusades up until the Mamluks taking over Egypt. One of their leaders (I don’t recall the name) ordered the destruction of the rebuilt Library of Alexandria, saying that since the Koran was the word of God, and since all other books were either to reinforce that, or blasphemous, no other books were needed.

NO. The "golden age" of Islam was the period where they had a steady influx of civilized slaves who knew how to run a civilization for them
122 posted on 01/06/2009 4:43:57 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Cronos

It’s not even Korn-study but rote-memorisation of the texts........

That’s what 0 did and what goes on all over the world and in madrassas. But some Korn students actually study this alleged holy text


123 posted on 01/06/2009 4:54:06 AM PST by dennisw (On the 31st floor a gold plated door won't keep out the Lord's burning rage ---FBB)
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To: guitarplayer1953

“due to a control of knowledge which truly is a form of mental slavery.”

Some would make the argument that’s precisely what the Washingtonian Oligarchy has in mind for us....


124 posted on 01/06/2009 4:58:49 AM PST by mo
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To: slowhandluke
As the concept passed through North Africa, it picked up the Arabic characters set for 0-9. And that's the pattern to look for

Not really -- the Indian characters for 0 to 9 are


The rabic copied it from Devanagari.
125 posted on 01/06/2009 5:07:45 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: muawiyah
Flying Garuda

That's hindu, dating from Vedic times.
126 posted on 01/06/2009 5:10:33 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: dennisw
But some Korn students actually study this alleged holy text

I wonder how many go nutz after studying it?
127 posted on 01/06/2009 5:15:54 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Cronos

You and I know the bottom line on Muhammadanism ....

Which is no good can come from investing in a murderous “Charlie Manson” false prophet. But millions have done so due to bad inclinations


128 posted on 01/06/2009 5:34:57 AM PST by dennisw (On the 31st floor a gold plated door won't keep out the Lord's burning rage ---FBB)
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To: livius
One of the problems with Islam is that their concept of God is that of a completely arbitrary, capricious being...

That's the point the Pope was trying to get across in his Regensberg speech. It must be awful to live a life without Reason.

129 posted on 01/06/2009 5:43:42 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"For this reason, Arab countries either have poorly maintained infrastructure and equipment (including military stuff), or import a lot of foreigners, possessing the right attitudes, to maintain everything. "

I've noticed the same condition in Black neighborhoods in the US.

130 posted on 01/06/2009 5:59:16 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

Not culturally the same as due toIzlam. Keep your focus on the real enemy that the cult of p*Ss


131 posted on 01/06/2009 6:28:12 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Cronos

So much for trusting wikipedia even on non-controversial stuff.


132 posted on 01/06/2009 6:37:16 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: Cronos
Yes, Vedic times, and those fellows who wrote/composed the first third of the Vedas came from, VOILA!!!, Persia and Mesopotamia.

So, what I said.

The "flying garuda", by whatever name, is older than the Vedas, and older than Hinduism.

133 posted on 01/06/2009 7:42:31 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: aruanan
Medieval Spain saw the origination of the world's first true industrial workforce ~ they are called Jews ~ they are still around. Some even have surnames that are readily understood in Ladino as being trade names, e.g. Schmidlapp (which has many spellings, means "sheet maker", that is, one who makes paper. Then there's "Bookbinder", a rather famous name in Jewish culture. And so on.

For a variety of reasons Isabella and Ferdinand thought it best that they convert or be expelled. Kind of like telling NASA's engineering teams to become Scientologists to keep their jobs.

Spain and Spanish culture and its derivatives haven't been the same since.

134 posted on 01/06/2009 7:48:41 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Err... the Vedas come from India, not from Persia and definitely not from Sumerian/Amorite Mesopotamia.

Besides, the Persian branch of indo-european religion didn't have the depth of vedic hinduism, even down to the beginnings of the Avestan. Yes, the Gathas of Zarathustra are deep, but that comes from a secondary, post-Vedic timeline

how can you say that the flying garudas is older than the Vedas? The Garuda is the name of Vishnu's flying eagle-horse. It's intrinsically linked to Hinduism


Izlam takes most of its core from Judaism, Arianism and pagan Arabic religions (Semitic religions) and very little from Indo-European religions or thoughts.

Even if you take a northern Amorite myth: the Enuma Ellish -- it doesn't talk about flying vehicles.
135 posted on 01/06/2009 8:26:09 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: muawiyah
On the contrary, Spain had it's high points right after the reconquista (1490), right up until the late 1600s when they had dynastic crises. The expulsion, while deplorable, didn't hurt Hispania.

Besides, the expulsion needs to be understood from the point that it was primarily the expulsion of Mulsims from Spain.
136 posted on 01/06/2009 8:30:25 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Cronos
Read more closely. Many of the geographical locations contained in the earliest Vedas are IN PERSIA, not INDIA.

I was watching the program INDIA on PBS last evening, and in the second section they got into the Vedas and reminded me of much of the scholarly anaysis that's gone into them. That was one of the items.

THere's still dispute about when they were written down. At the moment the common belief is they were converted from an oral tradition to writing entirely in India some time BC. At the same time, there's a less commonly held belief that they were rendered in writing, but kept secret as written documents, for several centuries.

This is roughly the same sort of idea frequently advanced with regards to the oldest works in the Bible. They were supposedly kept orally for many centuries until writing came along.

Turns out, of course, that writing was already in existence in the very place the original Vedic civilization and Hebrew culture came from ~~ Upper Mesopotamia!

I suspect both the Vedas and the background materials of the Pentatuch were maintained in written form at the earliest possible times ~ many centuries before the claim that they were written down.

I am aware that Indian scholars are presently in the throes of a rejection of the Aryans as having anything to do with Indian religious tradition and are willing to claim the Vedas are 100% an Indian production.

Fine, but other evidence points to foreign origin.

137 posted on 01/06/2009 8:35:37 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: slowhandluke

err.. does Wikipedia say that?


138 posted on 01/06/2009 8:36:35 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Cronos
Right, 60,000 Jews were sent packing, 80,000 were converted, and virtually no Moslems left outside of the post-Reconquista property owners and elite (and even if they'd wanted to convert, that particular class was unwelcome).

BTW, there were many fewer people around in those days than there are now.

Spain destroyed its industrial base in 1492. The discovery of gold in the Americas circa 1521 allowed their bankers in Belgium to pay their bills, but, alas, sometimes it's good to have your own industrial workforce and machinery around. By 1600 Spain had lost its most ambitious people to the Americas, the gold ran out, Portugual (a more enlightened place) was seizing back its independence, and Spain was spent.

The 1500s were a period of serious decline for Spain as a viable nation. All they had was money.

139 posted on 01/06/2009 8:41:03 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Many of the geographical locations contained in the earliest Vedas are IN PERSIA, not INDIA.

Examples? The Vedas refer to the land of the 5 rivers, to the mystical Saraswati river etc. -- all topographically in the Indian continent

THere's still dispute about when they were written down. At the moment the common belief is they were converted from an oral tradition to writing entirely in India some time BC. At the same time, there's a less commonly held belief that they were rendered in writing, but kept secret as written documents, for several centuries.

True, the exact time is in dispute, but they definitely date from before Christ and before Gautam Buddha (300 BC). The dates are assumed to be at around the late Harappan era (1700 BC and earlier).

About them being oral first, yes that must be true for parts, but not all the vedas. Definitely not the Atharva, I would guess but the others like the Rig and Ayur must have been oral initially, yes

Turns out, of course, that writing was already in existence in the very place the original Vedic civilization and Hebrew culture came from ~~ Upper Mesopotamia!

A non-sequitor. The Mayans had a different form of writing as did the Chinese and as did the Harappan civilisation. Their language / scripts aren't related to Sumerian/Akkadian as is evidenced in their non-cuneiform characters. You can see the linkages between the Sumerian cuneiforms and Elamite and Akkadian and even Hittite writings, but not with indic writings

Secondly, the mythologies of the indo-europeans differs considerably from the Sumerian (Enuma Ellish) or Semitic mythos -- and that is highly evident when you compare the Enuma Ellish, Egyptian Mythology and the Vedas. The later tie-ups like the Phoenician/Greek and the later influence of Zoroaster on Semitic religions is a later development.

Vedic civilisation did not centre around cities like the Sumerian and that stands out in the mythos of the Vedas as well.

Indian scholars aren't rejecting that the Aryans had anything to do with the Vedas because that's silly -- the northern 70% of India is aryan. Hinduism evolved from Vedic Hinduism and it's worship of the Devas under Indra to the influences of Buddhism (ahimsa) to move away from yagnas to a more Brahmanical form, to deeply embrace Dravidian beliefs in Vishnu and primarily Shiva.

on the Contrary, India scholars are of the belief that the Vedic and Aryanic civilisations originate from northern India -- the Punjab and Gangetic plains and then moved to the north-west.
140 posted on 01/06/2009 8:55:43 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: muawiyah
Right, 60,000 Jews were sent packing, 80,000 were converted, and virtually no Moslems left outside of the post-Reconquista property owners and elite (and even if they'd wanted to convert, that particular class was unwelcome).

They were converted -- the Marranos and M... (can't remember the term for Moslem converts) and yes, many did go to live in Morrocco.

Spain destroyed its industrial base in 1492.

What "industrial base" are you talking about? There was no "industry"

The discovery of gold in the Americas circa 1521 allowed their bankers in Belgium to pay their bills, but, alas, sometimes it's good to have your own industrial workforce and machinery around.

Belgium didn't exist until 1830. The entire area was the Spanish Netherlands (Hapsburg territories).

By 1600 Spain had lost its most ambitious people to the Americas, the gold ran out, Portugual (a more enlightened place) was seizing back its independence, and Spain was spent.

Portugal was independent right from 25th July 1139, after the Battle of Ourique. This was way before Spain (i.e. the rest of Iberia). Portugal was independent of Castile, Leon and Aragon and the Castile-Aragon union of Spain throughout. It was in personal union with Spain under Philip I from 1580 until 1640, only 60 years.

The 1500s were hardly any kind of decline for Spain. The decline only started in the late 1600s with the rise of the northern Netherlands and England and then through to France's rise under the Sun King until the 1700s and the wars of Spanish succession which is when Spain started to decline (that's good reading).

Spain's nadir was during the Napoleonic wars and it was then that Bolivar's ideas were sown.

This wasn't due to the expulsion of the Jews, deplorable though that was, in the 1400s.
141 posted on 01/06/2009 9:09:14 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Cronos
Some people like to use the "old names" for places, but I prefer to just use the "modern name" for the exact same place.

You'll find that when virtually any historian says "Belgian Banker" for that particular period he or she knows that everybody else knows exactly who they're talking about. If you want to follow the physical flow of gold from the New World to the Old World it's also understood you'll be looking at places like Belgium. If you get real specialized and want to follow Philippines gold, it comes across the Pacific to Mexico and across Mexico to any one of several Spansh port cities, then on boats that sail past Florida and then on to Europe (usually Belgium). The silver from Potosi takes a different route.

Now, regarding converts, it had been the practice up to the time of the expulsions to just leave the "industrial base", other wise known as Jews, alone regarding their religious affiliations. They (meaning Spanish authorities whether Christian or Moslem) simply weren't in the business of proselytizing among the Jews ~ after all, most of them hated Jews, with or without their religion.

Interesting to read through the Spanish laws of the time ~ see what the position of Jews really was. Since they were not nobles they'd not be allowed to stay in cities after conversion, so what would they do for work since neither peasants nor nobles were artisans.

Now you may disagree with Spain having a real "industrial base" but they did relative to everyone around them ~ see Toledo ~ steel ~ that ought to be enough to get you up to date.

The 1500s saw the rise of France. Even UK wasn't all that easy a target to knock off. By the 1600s Sweden was the powerhouse, with France a close seond.

Spain didn't get to its hollowed out state in the early 1600s without some earlier "rot".

142 posted on 01/06/2009 9:29:26 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There is a creature called the camel spider, a giant, spider-like thing that leaves nasty bites, found in Iraq and around the Middle East. It was an annoyance to troops in Iraq, and some Saudis believed it was a blessing from Allah to hinder the American invaders. Strange, superstitious people indeed. Islam has hindered the mental development of the Arab world. The Western world at one point had superstitions (black cats are evil, etc) but we’ve for the most part grown out of that and advanced. The Arabs are still stuck in the 7th century. But even then, Islam had a hard time establishing itself. Muhammad’s band of Muslims was initially very small, and were kicked out of Mecca by the original inhabitants. It was only by force that Islam spread.

I read a MEMRI article awhile ago about a Kuwaiti guy who as one of the few intelligent Arabs out there. He slammed the Arab world’s obsession with conspiracy theories and told them to take responsiblity for their actions and quit blaming Israel and America. He died of brain cancer not too long ago, though.

However, let’s not forget that we’ve got our own share of nutjobs, some of which are well-educated, who also believe 9/11 was an inside job, and believe in stuff like global warming, UFOs, we never landed on the moon, Obama is the messiah, etc.


143 posted on 01/06/2009 9:38:23 AM PST by G8 Diplomat (The Middle East: We put the OIL in TURMOIL!)
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To: muawiyah
The physical flow of gold from the New World didn't go through the Netherlands in any way. The Netherlands until the 1600s primarily had textile and lace "industries" and manufactured lace, etc. for export. No bankers -- the bankers were in Italy, in Genoa, etc.

Philipines gold? That was never in any way comparable to that from the New world. There are descriptions of Spanish expeditions from the 1570s but no big mother lodes of any sort. Besides the path from the Philippines to Spain was via the Cape of Good hope, not the Pacific

Now you may disagree with Spain having a real "industrial base" but they did relative to everyone around them ~ see Toledo ~ steel ~ that ought to be enough to get you up to date.

Toledo steel wasn't made by Jewish tradesmen. The Jews were maltreated by both Ms and Cs and so they resorted to the trades they COULD practise, namely trading, money lenders, etc. (no real concept of banking until the italian bancos).

France wasn't really a power in the 1500s and neither was England -- Henry VIII was subordinate to the Spanish King at the time while the French were consolidating their lands. This changed in the later 1600s due to the War of Spanish Succession
144 posted on 01/06/2009 9:47:27 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Cronos

BTW, the Portuguese colony established by the Carvajal family in Labrador in 1531 was shut down about 1535 due to the Spanish takeover of Portugal.


145 posted on 01/06/2009 9:47:51 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

In fact, if you read the Rig Veda you see more clear mention of the Panch jab (Panjab) and also long treatises on the Asuras Varuna and Agni and the daveas Indra, Yama, etc.


146 posted on 01/06/2009 9:49:29 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Cronos
There's a time sequence that correlates with an Eastward movement. The oldest stuff was developed further West.

There are also little inclusions that come from other sources ~

147 posted on 01/06/2009 9:54:35 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: eleni121

Some are Jewish as well. The Mizrahi Jews are Arabs.

And remember, for the majority of their history, Arabs were not Muslims. Ishmael was born about 4000 years ago, whereas Islam is only 1400 years old. You know Petra in Jordan? The Nabataean Arabs built that 3000 years ago. Nowadays Muslim Arabs (and non-Arabs) build suicide vests. Islam has caused them to devolve into a primitive society that can’t maintain itself without leeching off of Western technology and enslaving others to do their work for them. And then they blame us when some of their own blows something up (9/11 for example).


148 posted on 01/06/2009 10:00:39 AM PST by G8 Diplomat (The Middle East: We put the OIL in TURMOIL!)
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To: G8 Diplomat; All

Well said and all important points to remember.

All peoples need to free themselves from that awful cult called islam - many have been freed from Marxism so it can be done.


149 posted on 01/06/2009 10:04:42 AM PST by eleni121 (EN TOUTO NIKA!! + In this sign Conquer! +)
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To: muawiyah
1535 due to the Spanish takeover of Portugal

No, Spain never "took over" Portugal. There was a personal union and nothing moved further than that in 60 years as I said in my earlier post

in 1535, Portugal was also taking over the post of Diu so no "take over of Portugal" -- in fact the personal union only happened under Philip in 1580 -- 45 years after your date
150 posted on 01/06/2009 10:05:11 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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