It Breaks My Heart To See Israel's Stupidity (Tikkun Stupid Dopehead Alert - MEGABARF)

Sunday Times ^ | 1/04/2009 | Michael Lerner

[goldstategop]

Israel's attempt to wipe out Hamas is understandable, but stupid. No country in the world is going to ignore the provocation of rockets being launched from neighbouring territory day after day. If Mexico had a group of anti-imperialists bombing Texas, imagine how long it would take for America to mobilise a counterattack. Israel has every right to respond.

But the kind of response matters. Killing 500 Palestinians and wounding 2,000 others (at the time of writing) is disproportionate. Hamas can harass, but it cannot pose any threat to the existence of Israel. And just as Hamas's indiscriminate bombing of population centres is a crime against humanity, so is Israel's killing of civilians (at least 130 so far in Gaza, not to mention the thousands in the years of the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza).

Hamas had respected the previously negotiated ceasefire except when Israel used it as cover to make assassination raids. Hamas argued that these raids were hardly a manifestation of a ceasefire, and so as symbolic protest it would allow the release of rocket fire (usually hitting no targets). But when the issue of continuing the ceasefire came up, Hamas wanted a guarantee that these assassination raids would stop. And it asked for more. With hundreds of thousands of Palestinians facing acute malnutrition, Hamas insists that the borders be opened so that food can arrive unimpeded. And in return for the captured Israeli soldier Gilad Schalit, it asks for the release of 1,000 Palestinians imprisoned in Israel.

[goldstategop]

For sheer ignorance, stupidity and effrontery, nothing excels (I hate that word!) better than Michael Lerner's insane scribblings on Israel and Operation Cast Lead! What kind of dope do they consume at Tikkun these days? If you ever needed any proof that liberalism is a form of mental illness, this is it! Oh and don't read this unless you have a very strong stomach. It deserves the MEGABARF warning for reasons y'all will understand from the first paragraph onwards. And yes, this leftist is not only a self-hating Jew, he's a Charter Member Of The Jews For A Second Holocaust.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[2banana]

Put Michael Lerner on a hill. Launch 3000 random missile and mortar attacks on him through out the year. Day and night. On holy days. Without rest.

Then let us talk with him.

[SonOfDarkSkies]

What idiot invented this concept of proportionate/disproportionate response.

If this idea carried sway in WWII...we would still be at war!

[ScreamingFist]

Hamas had respected the previously negotiated ceasefire except when Israel used it as cover to make assassination raids

There you go.

[Mr. Mojo]

Hamas can harass, but it cannot pose any threat to the existence of Israel.

Suicide bombing attacks against the Israeli population is far more than "harassment." So are Qassam rocket attacks. And when (not if) Hamas gets more sophisticated weaponry (both rockets and WMDs), Israel's existence will indeed be threatened. Lerner has his head squarely up his ass.

[Anti-Bubba182]

Michael Lerner (rabbi)

"...Michael Lerner is an American rabbi, political activist, the editor of Tikkun, a progressive Jewish and interfaith magazine based in Berkeley, California, and the rabbi of Beyt Tikkun Synagogue of San Francisco.[1][2]

Student activism

While at Berkeley, Lerner became a leader in the Berkeley student movement and the Free Speech Movement, chair of the Free Student Union, and chair from 1966-1968 of the Berkeley chapter of the Students for a Democratic Society. After teaching philosophy of law at San Francisco State University, he took a job as an Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the University of Washington and taught ethics, social and political philosophy, philosophy of literature and culture, and introduction to philosophy. Angry at the SDS group called Weatherman, which had introduced violence into the anti-war movement in response to police violence, Lerner created a new organization as an alternative, called the Seattle Liberation Front. After a major demonstration that his organization had called in protest turned violent, he and others were arrested for inciting a riot. The subsequent trial was the second nationally known federal trial against anti-war activists and became known as the Seattle Seven..."

Lerner is vermin.

[gwilhelm56]

**...disproportionate response.**

Only if Israel Keeps firing when shown that there are NO SURVIVORS... that’s a ...disproportionate response.

[goldstategop]

Lerner wants to inflict the Rwanda Solution upon Israel. That is with the Arabs doing to the Jews what they lovingly do to each other. He is a nut with all his screws loose!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[rightwingcrazy]

My understanding of the word “disproportionate” is “excessive compared to the goal to be achieved”. Hamas is still lobbing missiles, so the response is not disproportionate. If anything, it’s inadequate.

[FlingWingFlyer]

“Disproportionate.” Only a bunch of liberal boneheads would come up with the idea that war has to be “proportionate.” On the other hand, I think the old Star Trek did an episode about this.

[Recovering Ex-hippie]

LOL!!!

Well written, I know its not funny, but your comments were great!

[ScreamingFist]

I like the idea (read here on FR), for every indiscriminate rocket launch, one indiscriminate mortar launch back. This sh#t would end in 2 days....

[gwilhelm56]

It APPEARS that this Lapsed Catholic cares More for ISRAEL than a SAN FRANSICKO RABBI .. UMMM, errr .. that’s a little redundant.

make that ....

Cares a LOT MORE

[Uri’el-2012]

The Rise Of Tikkun Olam Paganism

[Islander7]

Since 2000, over 7,000 rockets have been launched from the town of Beit Hanun, in Gaza, toward Sderot, in Israel.

"We have decided to make Sderot a ghost town," said a spokesman for Hamas in a recent article. "We are not going to stop launching our rockets until they leave." But in spite of this barrage of iron from the sky, the majority of the population has stayed, living in their homes and going about their daily lives.

Most of the press coverage has shown the panic that can take place when the rockets begin to fall. This is dramatic and has frequently been tragic, with thirteen people killed in the past seven years. But it is not the whole story. Although some of the residents have fled, many more have stayed and have become stronger. Instead of becoming a "ghost town," Sderot is a vibrant and energetic city which will not be defeated. This is an accounting of one month spent near Sderot in early 2008.

Iron Rain

Lots of pictures at the link

[jiggyboy]

Killing 500 Palestinians and wounding 2,000 others (at the time of writing) is disproportionate.

Some Moderate Proposals [Victor Davis Hanson]

1) Request that 50% of Israel's air-to-ground missiles be duds to ensure greater proportionality.

2) Allow Hamas another 1,000 free rocket launches to see if they can catch up with the body count.

3) Have Israeli soldiers congregate in border barracks so that Hamas's random rockets have a better chance of killing military personnel, to ensure it can claim at least a few military targets.

4) Redefine "holocaust" to refer to deaths of terrorists in numbers under 400 to give greater credence to Hamas's current claims.

5) In the interest of fairness, allow Hamas to establish both the date that war is supposed to begin and the date when it must end.

6) Send Israeli military advisers to Hamas to improve the accuracy of their missiles.

7) Take down the barriers to return to Hamas a fair chance of getting suicide bombers back inside Israel.

[combat_boots]

One of these days, Berkeley may need the help of the US military.

Here’s hoping the military remembers who these fruits are.

[healy61]

Agreed. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Recovering Ex-hippie]

Here is a quote from Alan Dershowitz article in the Jersualem Post:

“There are some who claim that Israel has violated the principle of proportionality by killing so many more Hamas terrorists than the number of Israeli civilians killed by Hamas rockets. That is an absurd misapplication of the concept of proportionality for at least two reasons.

First, there is no legal equivalence between the deliberate killing of innocent civilians and the deliberate killings of Hamas combatants. Under the laws of war, any number of combatants can be killed to prevent the killing of even one innocent civilian.

Second, proportionality is not measured by the number of civilians actually killed, but rather by the risk of civilian death and the intentions of those targeting civilians. Hamas seeks to kill as many civilians as it can. It aims its rockets in the general direction of schools, hospitals, playgrounds and other entirely civilian targets. The fact that it has not killed as many civilians as it would have liked to is a tribute to Israel’s enormous devotion of resources to the building of shelters and to the construction of early warning systems.

Hamas, on the other hand, refuses to build shelters, precisely because it wants to maximize the number of Palestinian civilians inadvertently killed by Israel’s military actions. It knows, from experience, that when it forces Israel to take military actions that result in the deaths of even a small number of innocent Palestinian civilians, many in the international community will condemn Israel. Israel understands this sad reality as well, and goes to enormous lengths to reduce the number of civilian casualties, even to the point of foregoing legitimate targets that are too close to civilian areas. Accordingly, Israel’s actions satisfy the principle of proportionality as well as the principle of self-defense against armed attack. “

here is link to the whole fantastic article:
http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/dershowitz/entry/israel_s_actions_are_lawful

[gwilhelm56]

Hmmm ... it says here you were Court Martialled.

Yes,Sir ... I refused to save Berkeley, CA from a Terrorist Attack.

You DID?? ... YOU’RE HIRED!!

[freedumb2003]

“I think the old Star Trek did an episode about this.”

A Private Little War — Kirk reasons that as long as he arms his tribe with the same level as the other Klingon-supported tribe he can, once again, bypass The Prime Directive.

[Evil Slayer]

Hey, maybe Israel should just send one of these over there. Now, you can talk disproportionate but well deserved.

[decimon]

What idiot invented this concept of proportionate/disproportionate response.

If this idea carried sway in WWII...we would still be at war!

Robert McNamara, for one (see Fog of War). Based much, apparently, on what he participated in during WWII.

[SonOfDarkSkies]

Lerner is vermin.

Saint Paul was once, shall we say, determined in his defense of his faith. He wasn't vermin...he was an opportunity!

God still loves Lerner...and we (whether Jew or Gentile) are commanded to love our enemies.

[reg45]

That is a great article!

[tbpiper]

Hamas can harass, but it cannot pose any threat to the existence of Israel.

Harass? Is that what numbnuts calls the wanton, random killing of Israeli civilians? My operative analogy is this: Hamas is using the rocket equivalent of a Saturday Night Special. Just because someone uses a clapped-out snub nosed 22 at long range doesn't mean he isn't trying to kill you. He'd use a Glock if he could get one. Hamas would use laser/gps guided munitions if they could get them.

So, according to this dilbert, as long as Hamas can only kill a few innocent civilians, Israel shouldn't really be all that upset.

Hamas' stated goal is to destroy Israel. A 'proportionate response' would be for Israel to destroy Hamas.

[Stepan12]

What idiot invented this concept of proportionate/disproportionate response.

I heard John Bolton on Fox News this morning and both Michael Lerner and Pat Buchanan are mistating the concept.

Proportionate response means using enough force to end the problem agression before you -- not the tit for tat nonsense implicitely argued for by Michael Lerner.

John Bolton says the real meaning of proportionality is included in the Christan concept of a just war.

[Anti-Bubba182]

Lerner is vermin.

[goldstategop]

I e-mailed Steve Plaut about it. Just when you think these pagans haven't reached a new low, they try to show you they can surpass the last one!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[HoosierHawk]

What idiot invented this concept of proportionate/disproportionate response.

I'm sure it was a liberal. And Hamas counts on them to ensure its survival.

[kcvl]

Michael Lerner is an American rabbi, political activist, the editor of Tikkun, a progressive Jewish and interfaith magazine based in Berkeley, California.

[rod1]

Is this Hillary’s Michael Lerner?

[gwilhelm56]

40 POINTS TO PEACE (vanity)

Take piece of paper. On it list, in no order of Importance,40 of the “MOST HOLY” sites in Islam.

Each Property damage or Life lost. Random choice on list is totally DESTROYED. It could even mean that MECCA gets LEVELED because the clerk handling the 40 SHEET sheet gets a PAPER CUT.

[sionnsar]

One of these days, Berkeley may need the help of the US military.
Here’s hoping the military remembers who these fruits are.

I've long wished our seminary were not in Berserkely.

[Stepan12]

Lerner is an old SDS Commie.

He now claims Capitalist work breeds alienation. Self hating Jews. Jews for a second holocaust featuring Michael Lerner

[Uri’el-2012]

Is this Hillary’s Michael Lerner?

YES !

[therut]

Oh yea and he calls Isreal “Imperalist” in his snide remarks. Just as he calls the USA “Imperalist” at the same time. What a hoot. To bad he is listened to by those in HIGH political office. He was Ms. Clintons spiritual consultant. Buch of incestious lefties.

[therut]

Oh yea and he calls Isreal “Imperalist” in his snide remarks. Just as he calls the USA “Imperalist” at the same time. What a hoot. To bad he is listened to by those in HIGH political office. He was Ms. Clintons spiritual consultant. Buch of incestious lefties.

[LeoWindhorse]

FRIENDS, LOVERS, COUNTRYMEN - COME STAND FOR ISRAEL!

Rally in Support of Israel’s War On Islamic Jihad!Pamgeller2

Tuesday, January 6th

12:30 PM
Across from the Israeli Consulate
42nd Street and 2nd Avenue

Thousands of rockets have been launched by the terrorist organization
Hamas into Southern Israel since Israel left Gaza for peace. Israel has the right to defend itself. Show your support for Israel.

Sponsored by: AMCHA Coalition for Jewish Concerns, Americans for a Safe Israel, Fuel for Truth, Mothers Against Terrorism, National Council of Young Israel, Stand with Us, Students for Peace in the Middle East, Zionist Organization of America

UPDATE: OTHER PRO-ISRAEL RALLIES. If you know of any other ones, SEND THEM AND I WILL POST!

Pro Israel Rally in Washington DC Rally in support of the people of Israel on Tuesday January 6th at 12:30 pm at the Israeli Embassy— 3514 International Dr. NW Washington DC . Please help spread the word spread about this rally which is sponsored by an Interdenominational Group of Rabbis in the Greater Washington Area who would like to invite the Christian community to join with them.

Counter Rally in Albany:

To all supporters of Israel. The PRC Palestinian Rights Committee will protest against Israel at the Capitol in Albany Tuesday Jan.6 at 4 PM on the State St. side. We need to get as many people as we can and counter demonstrate for Israel! We have to show the public and media that these supporters of Hamas terror are wrong!

Chazak v’ematz l’israel, strength and courage for Israel!

[mckenzie7]

1000 Palestinians for 1 Jew? That sounds about right.

Maybe Israel could lop off a rocket everytime one enters Israeli airspace. Heaven knows, they are better shots.

[SonOfDarkSkies]

Lerner is vermin.

The basic problem with Islam is that it hates...how is that statement different.

Killing the enemy is enough...we are not required to be infected with its disease.

[sionnsar]

Saint Paul was once, shall we say, determined in his defense of his faith. He wasn't vermin...he was an opportunity!
God still loves Lerner...and we (whether Jew or Gentile) are commanded to love our enemies.

Good points! The Prayer for Absolution in Evening Prayer (1928 Book of Common Prayer) begins thus:

"ALMIGHTY God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickedness and live, ... "

Something I have to remind myself of from time to time...

[Anti-Bubba182]

...how is that statement different.

Killing the enemy is enough...we are not required to be infected with its disease.

Said the man with the, "(Death to Hamas!)" tagline. Take a flying leap.

[elcid1970]

Thanks for this informative post, but consider the irony: that we FReepers don’t get paid a dime for having at least half a brain while posting common sense, while this certified idiot Lerner is wined, dined, and paid a king’s ransom for spouting pure buffalo plop, decade after decade.

[Anti-Bubba182]

Good article and list of self hating Jews but, I hate it when they put music tracks on the sites.

[mckenzie7]

Israel really has it tough, with hamas hiding behind their slaves (women and children)

Real men don't hide behind women and children!

Heaven help Israel!

[DejaJude]

What idiot invented this concept of proportionate/disproportionate response.

The idiot that was losing of course.

[SkyDancer]

OK, you shoot rockets at us ... we run and hide. The UN condemns us (Israel) for attacking the rocket bases .... typical ....

[Marie2]

It seems to me that the “proportionate” response would be the one most likely to silence Hamas for good. Why peck and peck and hope for a victory? Just get it done. More innocent humans living in peace will be the ultimate result. Dragging out warfare just prolongs everyone’s suffering.

Hamas needs to get to the point where they resolve not to attack Israel any more. Just like Islam needs to get to that point with the western civilizations.

[mckenzie7]

Love could be described as sending these scum to their dreamed of paradise where their perpetual virgins and pleasant young boys dwell.