Skip to comments.Seneca Nation targets NY Thruway in tax dispute
Posted on 01/13/2009 6:01:52 PM PST by Dan Nunn
BUFFALO -- It appears the New York State Thruway will again figure prominently in a dispute between the Seneca Indian Nation and the state over cigarette taxes.
On Tuesday, Seneca President Barry Snyder outlined the nations response to a law signed by Gov. David Paterson that would ban manufacturers from selling unstamped cigarettes to wholesalers who supply reservation stores.
Snyder says tribal councilors are now devising a system to collect tolls of $2 per car on the Thruway, where it passes through the tribes Cattaraugus Reservation in western New York. He called the interstate an illegal, unlicensed business.
In 1997, the Senecas burned tires and shut down part of the Thruway following an attempt that year by the state to tax Indian suppliers.
There are a few of us that would send truckloads of tires.
I second that!
Never stand between a liberal and a tax they are trying to collect. This simple fact trumps all so called liberal ideology on a host of issues. They’d have you killed to collect a roll of pennies.
I hope the Seneca Nation fights this tooth and nail.
I’ll supply the Gas and Matches
Hint: Last time it turned into a shooting war..
Another end run by the liberals to get undeserved money.
There are ways to deal with rioting Native Americans.
I think this was an episode of The Sopranos.
Are they sovereign nations or not? Which is it? The leftwing, kook DemocRATS need to make up their minds. Count me in on sending them some tires!
I hope the Sencas win this one.
Maybe someone will count the number of cops in NY State and report it. I'm serious. There are more cops at the town, city, county and state level than anyplace else in the country. All union and they need the tax to pay their wages and pension. A conflict of interest? Nawwwww. They are dedicated public servants.
I'm rooting for the Indians, at the very least to stir the sh*t up in the Empire State.
Treaty after treaty has been violated against America's indignant people in the past, and this is no exception. Mainly the state is greedy for $$$ due to its long track record of waste and fraud, and so targets one of the few areas where increased revenue wasn't available - Indian Reservations - thereby breaking yet another treaty
Patterson is an idiot. Relative to the number of residents of NY those traveling to the reservations to buy cigs is minimal. If he wants to raise $$$$ with higher tobacco taxes-he should just tack another $2 a pack tax onto cigs sold in the state and leave the reservations alone.
I drove into that county multiple times about 2-3 years ago. Right on the reservation line was a huge black sign with white letters saying something like “Honor The Treaties.”
Happy New Year, Shyla! :-)
Happy New year to you also.
Enjoying the weather??? Plfff...
We drive that way a few times a year. Friends of ours have cabins up that way. Beautiful area.
Of course, when time makes it possible, we make a stop at the casino and make a donation..... : )
In the old days, the Palefaces would cart in a couple barrels of whiskey and the Seneca Nation opposition would melt away. These days, the Palefaces of the NY Government will cart in a couple suitcases of cash. Same result, although the Seneca won’t get quite as drunk.
It's not a violation of the treaties. The Supreme Court of the United States has consistently ruled that a state may legally tax sales to non-Indians without violating federal law or the "treaties."
The Constitution says that only Congress has the authority to deal with the Indian Nations. Of course, we all know how much respect liberals have for the Constitution.
Actually, some reports have the state losing millions per year because of the Indians breaking the law. Putting additional taxes on the packs will only encourage more illegal sales.
Personally, I'd prefer no taxes at all. However, if the taxes are going to be imposed they should be enforced equally, without regard to "race" or ethnicity.
Now if we can only get the rest of American on board...
Actually, in OKLAHOMA TAX COMM'N v. POTAWATOMI TRIBE, 498 U.S. 505 (1991) the US Supreme Court held, in a state is free to collect taxes on such sales to nonmembers of the tribe which is all the NYS law seeks to do.
LOL! That would include libtard in America
Let the Indians sell them as the currently do and set up customs stop on the US board of the Indian own lands. That way NY gets the taxes, the Indians get the business and the people get screwed just like the rest of the state.
BTW - I really have a problem with funding programs with items that are then taxed into oblivion. What happens when the costs are so high there is massive drop in tax revenue to support the programs? Oh yeah, it already happened.
I agree 100%.
These native tribes haven't been exempt from various forms of taxation because of their race or ethnicity, but because of their location. From a legal standpoint Indian reservations are sovereign territories that aren't subject to the same laws as "ordinary" parts of the U.S.
Not true. Most of the benefits of "sovereignty" apply only to members of the tribe (ie, members of that ethnicity) who are operating on the location in question.
hahahahaaa .. yep, yer right! Stoopit me to trust spell-check .... indigenous it should have said :)
“I hope the Sencas win this one.”
No one wins. ‘A nation within a nation’....it’s never worked, and it never will. Just more divide and conquer....identity politics.
Why should members of the Seneca tribe be paying less cigarette tax than I do? Either this is America, or it isn’t. Either we’re equal or we’re not. It’s past time to stop this ‘tribal’ thinking.
“Prima facie, it looks like the loser governer of NY is on thin ice. Worcester v. Georgia (1832) established that State laws (such as New York’s) have no authority in dealings with the Indian Nations”
Do you know what the result of that decision and Worcester winning it was?
The trail of tears. Jackson refused to enforce the Supreme court ruling in favor of ‘Worchester’, who was a missionary representing the Cherokee, against the state of Georgia.
Law means nothing if it’s not enforced.
“Personally, I’d prefer no taxes at all. However, if the taxes are going to be imposed they should be enforced equally, without regard to “race” or ethnicity. “
Thank you. After 200 & years at this Constitutional experiment, so few get that.
I'd point out, though, that as time goes on it gets harder to state with any kind of certainty that someone who claims to be an "Indian" isn't telling the truth.
I still hope the Senecas can beat the New York dem cash grab.
Burn tires on the thruway? Won’t work, for long. What they need to do is burn down the NYS Assembly and Senate and then continue on and plant a charge under the Governor’s mansion.
When the Assembly and Senate are in session in Albany we have the largest aggregation of crooks, swindlers and thieves in one place in NY since the Mafia meeting in Apalachin in 1957.
I did know that. Are you suggesting that Nobama and his Dem Congress are going to repeat such actions against the N.Y. Senecas?? As mindless as the Obama supporters/drones are, even they would raise an outcry against the weasel Dems if they tried to pull such a stunt.
“Well, that’s true. I guess it makes sense that some mob boss couldn’t just move to a “reservation” and claim that he’s a Seneca or Oneida Indian.
I’d point out, though, that as time goes on it gets harder to state with any kind of certainty that someone who claims to be an “Indian” isn’t telling the truth. “
Many tribes, including a local one,the Klamath can invite anyone to be a member of their tribe. Builds their numbers and handouts and political power. Many ‘Cheifs’ are not blood native. Tribal governments are notorious for corruption and scamming. John Ross, the ‘Chief’ of the Cherokees from the 1830’s to 1866 was blue eyed and 1/8th Cherokee.
I wouldn’t speculate what the government of NY might do. It’s beyond me. I admit I will smile if the Seneca’s put any left coast politico in their place. Then they need to shut up and remember they should be Americans like the rest of us instead of ‘Seneca’ first.
It's more than that. New York is telling the Indians to become tax collectors. New York already "charges" tax to non-Indians by requiring residents to declare purchases out of state.
Wrong again. The whole point of the new law is to impose the tax at the distributor level, before it even gets to the reservation. However, even if we assume that the Indians are "collecting" the tax, the Supreme Court has held that the tribes can be required to do that if they wish to sell to non-Indians.
So what should we do about the treaties signed hundreds of years ago by our forefathers?
Sovereign tribes? How is that different than demanding Ontario start collecting New York State sales tax?
And you are correct that it is at the distributor level. What is to stop out of state distributors from doing business with the Seneca nation? This is nearly on the Pennsylvania border.
Contrary to what the Native American race-baiters like to argue, "sovereign" Indian Nations have never been treated exactly like foreign governments. They are subject to federal law and, to the extent federal law decrees it (as in this case) state law.
Good. I’m in favor of anything that keeps the NYS moneygrubbers the hell out of my pocket. NYS literally does tax anything that moves, anything that used to move, and anything that cannot move. Enough.
BTW..NOBODY — not Indians and not non-Indians — should be having to pay these kinds of taxes on cigarettes. It’s insanity itself to charge $10/pack just so the state can collect billions of dollars from people who really just want to be left alone.
It is not now, nor has it ever been about “health.”
PS: While I feel for the mom and pop convenience stores that are claiming they’ve lost business, may I suggest that they direct their ire towards the REAL culprits here: their own legislature. Had NYS not raised taxes to this unconscionable level, they would not be in the position of having to compete for business. Believe me, I’m sure smokers would MUCH rather walk around the corner for smokes than drive many miles away. The taxes are the problem here, not the Indians.
ARTICLE 2. The United States acknowledge the lands reserved to the Oneida, Onondaga, and Cayuga Nations in their respective treaties with the State of New York, and called their reservations, to be their property; and the United States will never claim the same, nor disturb them, or either of the Six Nations, nor their Indian friends, residing thereon, and united with them in the free use and enjoyment thereof; but the said reservations shall remain theirs, until they choose to sell the same to the people of the United States, who have the right to purchase.
Agreed. Mom and pops blaming the Indians for tax-free cigarettes is like blaming the gun in a shooting. We need this bum governor out of the office.
I wish it were only Paterson.
Unfortunately, my own (allegedly) GOP representatives in the NYS legislature back this law, and my (allegedly) GOP county legislator (Suffolk) has voted to join Mikey Bloomberg’s lawsuit against the Poospatuck Indians.
There’s plenty of GOP garbage out there, and they are well represented in NYS.
Your citation doesn’t reference the Senecas, only “the Oneida, Onondaga, and Cayuga Nations.” And at least two of those tribes (Oneida and Cayuga) have been found to have lost their reservations. See the Sherrill decision and the Court of Appeals decision Cayuga Indian Nation v Pataki.