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Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
CMI ^ | Alex Williams

Posted on 01/13/2009 6:40:50 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

The traditional understanding of DNA has recently been transformed beyond recognition. DNA does not, as we thought, carry a linear, one-dimensional, one-way, sequential code—like the lines of letters and words on this page. And the 97% in humans that does not carry protein-coding genes is not, as many people thought, fossilized ‘junk’ left over from our evolutionary ancestors. DNA information is overlapping-multi-layered and multi-dimensional; it reads both backwards and forwards; and the ‘junk’ is far more functional than the protein code, so there is no fossilized history of evolution. No human engineer has ever even imagined, let alone designed an information storage device anything like it. Moreover, the vast majority of its content is metainformation—information about how to use information. Meta-information cannot arise by chance because it only makes sense in context of the information it relates to. Finally, 95% of its functional information shows no sign of having been naturally selected; on the contrary, it is rapidly degenerating! That means Darwin was wrong—natural selection of natural variation does not explain the variety of life on Earth. The best explanation is what the Bible tells us: we were created—as evidenced by the marvels of DNA—but then we fell and now endure the curse of ‘bondage to decay’ by mutations...

(Excerpt) Read more at creationontheweb.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: a; alexwilliams; c; cmi; codesuponcodes; creation; crevo; dna; encode; encodeproject; evolution; g; intelligentdesign; journalofcreation; junkdna; metainformation; naturalselection; neodarwinism; nervecode; oldearthspeculation; polanyi; regulatorycodes; replicationcode; t; transcriptioncode
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1 posted on 01/13/2009 6:40:51 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Finny; vladimir998; Coyoteman; allmendream; LeGrande; GunRunner; cacoethes_resipisco; ...

I decided to post this as its own thread. Enjoy!


2 posted on 01/13/2009 6:43:53 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Are you kidding me? All that complex DNA stuff happened randomly, pure chance. Everything in the universe that appears to have design is just a “fortunate accident”.


3 posted on 01/13/2009 6:44:01 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: CottShop

Did I ping you to this?


4 posted on 01/13/2009 6:44:40 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

More BS about ID.


5 posted on 01/13/2009 6:44:55 PM PST by MimirsWell (Scipio Pakistanus)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

Perhaps it appears to be designed for a reason :o)


6 posted on 01/13/2009 6:45:12 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
That means Darwin was wrong...

More pure B.S. from the irreducible complexity moonbats.

7 posted on 01/13/2009 6:45:34 PM PST by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

I highly recommend the book, “Cosmic Codes”, by Chuck Missler.

As this new information confirms, DNA is holographic. That is, the information is encoded and distributed throughout the medium.

But not only is DNA likely holographic, but so our brains may be also.

The Bible exhibits holographic properties.

But even more startling, even our entire reality, what we perceive as the “physical” universe, may be a hologram.

Niels Bohr said that the only thing Quantum Physics has going for it is that it is undeniably correct.


8 posted on 01/13/2009 6:48:08 PM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: MimirsWell

Actually, if you check my recent posting history, you will find that he has written three papers back to back (to include this one) that are absolutely devastating to naturalistic evolution. And btw, he’s a Young Earth Creationist, not an IDer. However, he does think that nature screams intelligent design (notice I didn’t capitalize). You need the Bible to graduate from ID to YEC.


9 posted on 01/13/2009 6:48:51 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Jeremiah Jr
The traditional understanding of DNA has recently been transformed beyond recognition. DNA does not, as we thought, carry a linear, one-dimensional, one-way, sequential code—like the lines of letters and words on this page. And the 97% in humans that does not carry protein-coding genes is not, as many people thought, fossilized ‘junk’ left over from our evolutionary ancestors. DNA information is overlapping-multi-layered and multi-dimensional; it reads both backwards and forwards; and the ‘junk’ is far more functional than the protein code, so there is no fossilized history of evolution. No human engineer has ever even imagined, let alone designed an information storage device anything like it. Moreover, the vast majority of its content is metainformation—information about how to use information.

From "Creation on the Web"

So close, and yet...

10 posted on 01/13/2009 6:49:18 PM PST by Ezekiel (Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.)
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To: Rudder

> More pure B.S. from the irreducible complexity moonbats.

My, how informative you are.

Perhaps you can supply us with an intelligent refutation of the information provided in the article rather than schoolyard namecalling and unsupported assertions.


11 posted on 01/13/2009 6:50:06 PM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: Westbrook

I’ll look it up. Thanks for the tip. I love Missler on prophecy. I didn’t realize that he branched out into science (although, I seem to recall that was his occupation before he went into full-time ministry).


12 posted on 01/13/2009 6:50:48 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

> I didn’t realize that he branched out into science
> (although, I seem to recall that was his occupation
> before he went into full-time ministry).

Chuck Missler is an engineer and was one of the principal technologists at the Jet Propulsion Labs before giving his life to Christ.


13 posted on 01/13/2009 6:53:13 PM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: Rudder

I would like to challenge you to read the paper linked to this post, and then the two papers written by Williams linked to the following post...and then try and tell me it’s moonbatery.

PS Williams maintains that all life (not just bacterial flagellums and blood clotting cascades) is irreducible to natural causes. And as far as I can tell, his arguments form an airtight case against naturalistic evolution (and for intelligent design). Trust me, he goes way beyond Behe.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2163122/posts


14 posted on 01/13/2009 6:56:35 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Westbrook

I knew it had something to do with the sciences. I’m looking up his book right now. Thanks again—GGG


15 posted on 01/13/2009 6:58:06 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
You've really hit it big this time. Not even pretending to do science; there is nothing but religious apologetics in this article.

Why don't you post these in the Religion Forum? They would be much more appropriate there?

16 posted on 01/13/2009 7:00:32 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

Because all of God’s creatures deserve to know what science tells us about the glory of God’s creation.


17 posted on 01/13/2009 7:03:12 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Job 5:9
He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted.


18 posted on 01/13/2009 7:07:51 PM PST by Red Badger (I was sad because I had no shoes to throw, until I met a reporter who had no feet.....)
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To: Red Badger

Amen to that! Thanks for that wonderful verse my brother :o)


19 posted on 01/13/2009 7:09:21 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Rudder

> moonbats

I don’t appreciate that.


20 posted on 01/13/2009 7:17:46 PM PST by old-ager
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To: GodGunsGuts
Because all of God’s creatures deserve to know what science tells us about the glory of God’s creation.

That's not what you are doing at all. That would be an honest approach.

What you are doing is promoting a very narrow fundamentalist view of religion and creation, one shared by only a small percentage of Christians. And you are saying that the majority Christian view, which holds that science must be accorded its appropriate respect, is heresy or blasphemy or some such.

The Pope and a large majority of Catholics would most likely say you are totally wrong. And last I looked, Catholics are the single largest religious denomination on earth. Are you saying that both scientists and Catholics are all wrong?

And from your response to my post you have shown that this thread properly should have been posted in the Religion Forum. You are not doing science.

21 posted on 01/13/2009 7:19:57 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

I can help you to get your body to get rid of what it doesn’t need. Go out and have a chile rellino dinner made with caberneros. Have a few cold ones simultaneously. In 18-24 hours, your body will tell you what it doesn’t need or want in it.


22 posted on 01/13/2009 7:21:05 PM PST by BobS
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To: Red Badger

“With gods like this, who needs enemies?” —Job


23 posted on 01/13/2009 7:24:56 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: GodGunsGuts
The best explanation is what the Bible tells us: we were created—as evidenced by the marvels of DNA—but then we fell and now endure the curse of ‘bondage to decay’ by mutations

I didn't know the Bible mentioned DNA or mutations.

24 posted on 01/13/2009 7:25:14 PM PST by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Nah, it’s just a waste of time to discuss this with those who hide behind their so-called “God.”


25 posted on 01/13/2009 7:25:22 PM PST by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

26 posted on 01/13/2009 7:27:26 PM PST by dan1123 (Liberals sell it as "speech which is hateful" but it's really "speech I hate".)
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To: GodGunsGuts
It's rather embarassing that someone could present himself as an authority on something and then say absolutely goofy things like: "Meta-information cannot arise by chance because it only makes sense in context of the information it relates to."
27 posted on 01/13/2009 7:28:34 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Rudder

I’m not hiding. Bring it on.


28 posted on 01/13/2009 7:30:03 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Gondring

Please elaborate.


29 posted on 01/13/2009 7:30:32 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Westbrook

“I highly recommend the book, “Cosmic Codes”, by Chuck Missler.” ~ Westbrook

Really?

Access all hot links below, here: http://calvarychapel.pbwiki.com/chuck-missler
Excerpt:

Today, Chuck Missler is the undisputed Calvary Chapel King of conspiracy theories and controversies.

Missler’s controversies include profiteering from the Y2K non-crisis, getting booted off CSN, being caught again in plagiarism.

At one point Missler was so outrageous that Chuck Smith had Missler’s message tape pulled from the Chapel Store.

Missler’s psuedo-science includes the discredited belief that the speed of light is slowing.

Missler has other crazy science ideas including these ideas.

Missler thought that the Mars was once very close to the earth. Some other criticisms of Missler.

Some of the more outrageous Missler-isms are documented here and here and here.

Missler vs Richard Abanes

Missler claims his critics are New World Order conspirators. Richard Abanes responded to Missler’s craziness.

Bibliography of Missler’s writings


30 posted on 01/13/2009 7:31:49 PM PST by Matchett-PI ("Every free act transcends matter, which is why any form of materialism is anti-liberty" - Gagdad)
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To: Moonman62

It doesn’t. But Creation Science does predict that virtually all mutations will be deleterious, and that whatever few beneficial mutations that might be found will be the result of adaptation to cumulative information loss, not information gain. In other words, devolution, not evolution.


31 posted on 01/13/2009 7:35:23 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Coyoteman

Why are you trying to drag Catholics into this? Are you Catholic?


32 posted on 01/13/2009 7:37:41 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Red Badger

I like the verse that states in the last days, that man will congratulate himself for his own origin, seeking to dismiss any input from God. That’s quite a loose interpretation, but it sure puts current extremist evolutionists in the cross-hairs.


33 posted on 01/13/2009 7:38:34 PM PST by DoughtyOne (I see that Kenya's favorite son has a new weekly Saturday morning radio show.)
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To: Coyoteman; GodGunsGuts
The Pope and a large majority of Catholics would most likely say you are totally wrong.

You're treading on dangerous ground, FRiend... Catholicism allows a pretty wide range of beliefs, until such time as scientists can provide a more workable explanation. Considering this, the ID viewpoint should be given consideration by serious Catholics, especially arguments such as Behe's irreducible complexity argument.

The only view that, to my knowledge, is completely unacceptible is that evolution, separate from God, is the mechanism by which all life came to be.

Oh, and also, be very careful making any argument based on what "a large majority of Catholics" believe. Besides being an example of the fallacy of appealing to the crowd, most Catholics aren't qualified to make a definitive call on the matter.

My seminary rector made a compelling argument based on Thomistic metaphysics for theistic evolution. Unfortunately, the explanation is too long and it's too late to write it all here.

34 posted on 01/13/2009 7:40:52 PM PST by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Please elaborate.

Meta-information cannot arise by chance because it only makes sense in context of the information it relates to
Picture two men standing before you with keys...they came out of doors that those keys unlocked. Surely it can't be chance that the only two men you see have the right keys for their doors...!

But then if you could see what actually happened, in the big picture, 100 men were thrown into individual cells, each with a random key. But luck, two had the right key...but to the end observer, it seems so magical that the only two examples you have are those that match right.

These con-men rely on good people being math illiterate, gullible, etc...even other people who are generally bright but haven't thought things through. It's sickening that they would take advantage so.

35 posted on 01/13/2009 7:41:04 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: dan1123

Excellent graphic, thank you! ALthough, it is missing arrows pointing in both directions on the so-called sense and anti-sense DNA strands. In other words, ENCODE learned that not only do transcripts proceed on both strands, but they also proceed in both directions on both strands! Amazing!!!


36 posted on 01/13/2009 7:41:37 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Gondring

Please explain what your example has to do with inversely causal meta-information.


37 posted on 01/13/2009 7:43:30 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GunRunner
“With gods like this, who needs enemies?” —Job

LOL! Ain't that the truth!

Loki, God of Creationism...for what other god would play a trick on humans and put clear evidence of an old earth if it's actually young...

38 posted on 01/13/2009 7:44:53 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Why are you trying to drag Catholics into this? Are you Catholic?

Catholics are the world's single largest denomination.

Why are you assuming your narrow view should be the only one considered, when they probably outnumber your denomination 100:1?

(See, I told you this thread should have been in the Religion Forum!)

39 posted on 01/13/2009 7:45:02 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: MimirsWell

[[More BS about ID.]]

Excellent rebuttal- Wow! Stunning.


40 posted on 01/13/2009 7:45:11 PM PST by CottShop (uite imite weallite)
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To: GCC Catholic

Thank you. BTW, if you have a good link on Thomistic metaphysics, I’d be much obliged.


41 posted on 01/13/2009 7:45:40 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: BobS
Re: "Go out and have a chile rellino dinner made with caberneros. ... In 18-24 hours, your body will tell you what it doesn’t need or want in it.

Throw in some jalapenos and you'll never worry about hemorrhoids again.

42 posted on 01/13/2009 7:46:56 PM PST by Cribb (Home of Conservatism - America's middle class.)
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To: Coyoteman

I’m not saying my view should be the only one considered. Where did you get that from?


43 posted on 01/13/2009 7:47:17 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GCC Catholic
You're treading on dangerous ground, FRiend.

Where are we, Iran?

Why is it that every time religion is discussed it's "dangerous ground".

People who disagree with the ID, the Catholic faith, evolution, or anything else religious are entitled to say whatever they damn well please.

Something said here offends you? Too bad. No one cares.

44 posted on 01/13/2009 7:50:02 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: GodGunsGuts
Offhand, I don't have one, but you can find copies of St. Thomas' writings online. The Summa Theologiae is available at www.newadvent.org and the Summa Contra Gentiles is available at http://www.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc.htm.

In my metaphysics class, we used the book "The One and the Many" by W. Norris Clark. It isn't pure Thomistic metaphysics (it's actually based on Lonergan's Transcendental Thomism), but it isn't a bad starter.

45 posted on 01/13/2009 7:51:05 PM PST by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: GCC Catholic

Thanks a bunch—GGG


46 posted on 01/13/2009 7:53:57 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GunRunner
Something said here offends you? Too bad. No one cares.

No, I'm not offended. If I were, I would probably take my business elsewhere.

It's "dangerous ground" in the sense that the argument doesn't hold water. Appealing to the crowd is a logical fallicy. In other words, he can say what he wants, but I'm telling him that his argument is flawed.

Chill.

47 posted on 01/13/2009 7:53:57 PM PST by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: Gondring
Good analogy. Loki the Trickster and the god of Job and Abraham would get along pretty well.

I can just imagine god telling Abraham, "You just got punk'd!! Haha, just kidding, you don't REALLY have to murder your son. I was just messing around!"

48 posted on 01/13/2009 7:56:52 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: GodGunsGuts
In the "old" days, I had a great HS science teacher, he said, "The closer you look at God's creation, even with the most powerful microscope, the finer and more detailed it is, the closer you look at something manmade, the rougher and coarser it is".

He didn't teach us what to think but how to think and puzzle things out.

49 posted on 01/13/2009 7:57:12 PM PST by brushcop (We remember SSG Harrison Brown, PVT Andrew Simmons B CO 2/69 3ID KIA Iraq OIF IV)
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To: CottShop

Glad to see you on the thread, CottShop. If I’m not mistaken, I think I sent you this link before. I reread it last night, and found it even more powerful than the first time a read it, so I decided to give it its own thread.

All the best—GGG


50 posted on 01/13/2009 7:58:09 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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