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Official: Guantanamo Detainee Was Tortured
Fox News ^ | Wednesday, January 14, 2009

Posted on 01/14/2009 1:18:12 AM PST by gondramB

A Bush administration official responsible for reviewing practices at Guantanamo Bay says the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the Washington Post reported.

"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," Susan J. Crawford told the Post. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution.

Crawford is the first senior Bush administration official who investigates Guantanamo dealings to publicly say a detainee was tortured.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alkatani; alkhatani; alqahtani; alqatani; bleedingheartattack; crawford; crymeariver; gitmo; globaljihad; jihad; khatani; liberals; mohammedalqahtani; nottorture; orlandocell; qahtani; qatani; savinglives; susancrawford; terrorism; terrorists; torontocell; torture; wot
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Torture is terrible thing to do - worse in many cases than killing them.

But many of us who generally think torture should be illegal admit we could rarely support torture in the ticking time bomb scenario.

And someone who was supposed to be on a 9/11 terror plane might well have had critical time sensitive information to save lives.

But we need some check to keep the government from torturing more broadly. Absent immediately saving another life, torture is cruel as defined by the Constitution.

Perhaps we could have torture warrants and the government should have to make its case to torture. I simply don't trust the government enough to decide on torture without checks and balance that the public can observe.

1 posted on 01/14/2009 1:18:12 AM PST by gondramB
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To: gondramB

Your position is logical, Christian and one with which I and any true intelligent conservative would agree.

Surely you are prepared to get flamed by saying it here.

Remember the Professional Wrestling wing of the GOP is what is destroying it.


2 posted on 01/14/2009 1:26:06 AM PST by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (Bomb Liechtenstein!)
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To: gondramB

> Torture is terrible thing to do - worse in many cases than killing them.

War is a terrible thing to do. Driving aeroplanes into the side of the World Trade Center is a terrible thing to do. Slamming an aeroplane into the Pentagon is a terrible thing to do. Driving an aeroplane into a Pennsylvania field is a terrible thing to do. Sawing off people’s heads with dull knives on TV is a terrible thing to do. Blowing up trains during rush hour is a terrible thing to do...

So where does it stop, and where does it begin? At what point is the Enemy going to respect human rights at least as much as we do?

This particular enemy doesn’t, and won’t.

In that context, then, waterboarding the Enemy is a mild, measured and polite response that is well within the confines of moral justifiability.


3 posted on 01/14/2009 1:30:33 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: gondramB

How exactly did they torture this person?

“The techniques they used were all authorized, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent. . . . You think of torture, you think of some horrendous physical act done to an individual,” she told the Post. “This was not any one particular act; this was just a combination of things that had a medical impact on him, that hurt his health. It was abusive and uncalled for.”

Interrogation techniques used on Qahtani included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold. He was hospitalized twice.


4 posted on 01/14/2009 1:33:05 AM PST by pas
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To: gondramB

I simply do not care what happens to these vicious, horrible people. Let me see if I can muster a feeling...nope, nothing. If they can dish it out, then surely they can take it. Maybe Allah will give them a few extra virgins for their trouble.


5 posted on 01/14/2009 1:35:26 AM PST by chris37
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To: pas

The person is still alive which translates to he was not ‘tortured’ enough.


6 posted on 01/14/2009 1:37:24 AM PST by Westlander (Unleash the Neutron Bomb)
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To: gondramB
Great points all.

This is the first actual case of torture I've seen, and it will be interesting to see how the media treat this, as we've been told till now about "torture" when what was actually happening was interrogation.

7 posted on 01/14/2009 1:46:40 AM PST by Darkwolf377
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To: All
OFF TOPIC.

This is a very tiny sampler of what I have looked at recently ON THE INTERNET:


THE JAWA REPORT: "AN AMERICAN JIHADI IN SOMALIA AND HIS WASHINGTON FRIENDS IN AL QAEDA" (SNIPPET: "But perhaps the most important piece of the story is an admission that Shumpert turned to the Salafi strand of Islam after he met with some Muslims in Washington who had recently returned from fighting the jihad in Chechnya..." SNIPPET: "So, who are Ruben Shumpert's friends who had been to Chechnya and are they still on the loose in Washington?") (January 13, 2009) (Read More...)
COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG.org: "NEFA FOUNDATION: SOMALI MILITANTS ISSUE BIOGRAPHY OF AMERICAN JIHADIST" by Evan Kohlmann (January 13, 2009) (Read More...)


COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG.org: "FEDS CITE RACIST CHATTER FOR 'HIGHER STATE OF ALERT' IN INAUGURATION" by James Gordon Meek (SNIPPET: ""Everybody in law enforcement dealing with that particular (white supremacist) 'clientele' is on a higher state of alert," a senior agent at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told The News. The ATF has expertise infiltrating white supremacist groups. A classified threat assessment for the Inauguration by the FBI and Homeland Security Department citing agitated hate groups was sent to police agencies this week. Counterterrorism officials have also picked up chatter from Islamic militants, but the agitated domestic hate groups are "the big concern," said another FBI official") (January 13, 2009) (Read More...)

INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT.org - IPT News: "U.S.-BASED IMAM URGES MUSLIMS TO JOIN THE GAZA BATTLEFIELD" (January 12, 2009) (Read More...)


THE TIMES OF INDIA: "In US, LeT cheif's kin raised funds for jihad" -Indrani Bagchi, TNN (January 12, 2009, 0123 hrs IST) (Read More...)


JIHAD WATCH.org (PEOPLE.co.uk): "JIHADISTS THREATEN TO BEHEAD MADONNA OVER GAZA" (January 11, 2009) (Read More...)


JIHAD WATCH.org: "AFGHAN JIHADIST TO OBAMA: "You should also cause one more addition to the U.S. history by becoming the first president to accept the Truth and by adopting the true faith of Islam"" (January 10, 2009) (Read More...)
TOORABORA.com: "By the name of Allah the most gracious and most merciful An Open Letter from the Peaks of Tora Bora to the White House The president of United States Barak Husain Obama!" (December 27, 2008)

LION HEART UK - blog: "GLEN JENVEY & BRITISH REPORTERS THREATENED WITH BEHEADING" (January 9, 2009) (Read More...)


Travel.State.Gov - TRAVEL ALERT: "INDIA" (January 9, 2009) (Read More...)


THE MEMRI BLOG.org ("Source: Alarabiya.net, January 9, 2009"): "MOROCCAN CLERICS ENCOURAGING 'ELECTRONIC JIHAD'" (Posted January 9, 2009) (Read More...)


Travel.State.Gov - TRAVEL WARNING: "BURUNDI" (January 8, 2009) (Read More...)


LONG WAR JOURNAL.org - blog (THE WEEKLY STANDARD): "TERRORIST PENPALS" by Thomas Joscelyn (January 9, 2009) (Read More...)


FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE.com (NEW YORK POST): "INTELLIGENCE FAILURE" by Ralph Peters (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "WOULD you ask your accountant to perform brain surgery on your child? That's the closest analogy I can find to the choice of Democratic Party hack Leon Panetta to head the CIA.") (January 8, 2009) (Read More...)
HOT AIR.com - blog: "WHAT THE PANETTA APPOINTMENT MEANS" by Ed Morrissey (January 6, 2009, 10:57 am) (Read More...)


YNET NEWS.com (REUTERS): "BUSH AIDE: MUMBAI-LIKE ATTACK COULD HAPPEN IN U.S." (SNIPPET: "Ken Wainstein told a Washington think tank that the Mumbai attacks in November showed the effectiveness of a low-technology coordinated assault on an open city.") (Published January 8, 2009, 04:01) (Read More...)

WHITEHOUSE.gov - News Release: "REMARKS BY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR STEPHEN HADLEY at the Center for Strategic and International Studies CSIS Washington, D.C." (SNIPPET: "America is a nation at war. And in the post-9/11 world, we face complex challenges that will not pause for a change in administrations.") (January 7, 2009) (Read More...)

Travel.State.Gov - U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Bureau of Consular Affairs - TRAVEL ALERT: "ISRAEL, THE WEST BANK AND GAZA" (January 6, 2009) (Read More...)


JIHAD WATCH.org (AP): "AL-SADR: "I call upon the honest Iraqi resistance to carry out revenge operations against the great accomplice of the Zionist enemy"" (January 7, 2009) (Read More...)


THE MEMRI BLOG.org: "Al-Quds Al-Arabi': Al-Qaradhawi Calls For Jan. 9 "Day of Rage and Support"; Yemeni Preacher Calls On Arab Regimes to Let Volunteers Wage Jihad Against Israel" (Posted January 7, 2009)


COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG.org: "NEFA FOUNDATION: Zawahiri Issues Orders to "Strike Everywhere" in Revenge for Gaza" by Evan Kohlmann (January 9, 2009) (Read More...)

Link (Read More...)

Link (pdf) (Read More...)

Link (Read More...)

FOX NEWS.com (AP): Cairo, Egypt - "AL QAEDA No. 2 BLAMES OBAMA, EGYPT'S PRESIDENT FOR GAZA" (January 6, 2009) (Read More...)

REWARDS FOR JUSTICE.net - Seeking Information Against International Terrorism: "WANTED AYMAN AL-ZAWAHIRI Up to $25 Million Reward"


JIHAD WATCH.org (IRNA, January 5, 2009): "IRAN BOASTS: 70,000 STUDENTS HAVE SIGNED UP TO KILL THEMSELVES IN MASS-MURDER OPERATIONS" (January 6, 2009) (Read More...)

THE MEMRI BLOG.org ("Source: Fars (Iran), January 1, 2009"): "IRANIAN MARTYRDOM MOVEMENT MARCHES IN TEHRAN" (Posted January 1, 2009) (Read More...)

JIHAD WATCH.org (AP): "IRAN: 'Volunteer student suicide groups ... are determined to go to Gaza"" (December 31, 2008) (Read More...)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch - No. 2169: "Khamenei Decrees: Israel is Kafer-e-Harbi; Iranian Martyrdom Seekers Await Khameini's Orders; Iranian Student Organizations Threaten to Take Over Egyptian, Jordanian Diplomatic Representations" (December 31, 2008) (Read More...)


THE AGE.com.au: "CIA TRACKING 4000 UK TERROR SUSPECTS" by Tim Shipman, Washington (SNIPPET: "THE CIA has begun an unprecedented intelligence-gathering operation in Britain to help MI5 monitor 4000 terrorist suspects. More than four out of 10 CIA operations to prevent attacks on US soil are now conducted against targets in Britain.") (January 5, 2009) (Read More...)
Link (Read More...)


TELEGRAPH.co.uk: "TERRORISTS COULD USE 'INSECT-BASED' BIOLOGICAL WEAPON" by John Adams (SNIPPET: "Terrorists would find it "relatively easy" to launch a devastating attack using swarms of insects to spread a deadly disease, an academic has warned.") (Last updated January 5, 2009, 2:43 pm GMT) (Read More...)

JIHAD WATCH.org (TIME ONLINE.co.uk): "HAMAS: We'll kill Jewish children anywhere" (January 5, 2009) (Read More...)

YNET NEWS.com (AP): "HAMAS THREATENS ATTACKS ON ISRAELI CIVILIANS" (Published January 5, 2009, 12:46) (Read More...)


YNET NEWS.com: "POLICE COMMISSIONER ORDERS HIGH ALERT IN ALL OF ISRAEL" (Published January 4, 2009, 12:11) (Read More...)


THE MEMRI BLOG.org ("Source: Fars, Iran, January 4, 2009"): "ONE MILLION DOLLAR REWARD FOR THE HEAD OF EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT MUBARAK" (Posted January 4, 2009) (Read More...)


NEWSWEEK.com: "ISRAEL'S WORST FEARS It's U.S. ambassador says the big threat is that Iran has almost enough fuel for its first nuclear weapon" (Published January 3, 2009; Magazine Issue dated January 12, 2009) (Read More...)

TRUTHUSA.com: A Look at Iran (Read More...)


THE JAWA REPORT - blog: "U.S. HOSTED HAMAS CHILDREN'S WEBSITE: "I have to kill the Israeli occupation and break the siege of Gaza"" (Posted January 3, 2009, 6:26 PM) (Read More...)


THE MEMRI BLOG.org ("Source: ikhwanonline.com, Al-Quds Al-Arabi, London, January 2, 2009"): "MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD GENERAL GUIDE: THE TIME HAS COME FOR JIHAD TO THE MAXIMUM DEGREE" (Posted January 2, 2009) (Read More...)

Link (Read More...)


ISRAEL NATIONAL NEWS.com: "HAMAS, AL-QAEDA THREATEN JEWISH TARGETS ABROAD" by Nissan Ratzlav-Katz (Published January 2, 2009, 12:51 pm) (Read More...)

YNET NEWS.com: "GLOBAL TERROR ATTACKS FEARED DUE TO GAZA OP" by Daniel Edelson (Published January 2, 2009, 02:21) (Read More...)


META SECURITY.net - Security of Virtual Worlds: "GLOBALLY NETWORKED ANARCHISM (#GRIOT)" by Roderick Jones (December 31, 2008) (Read More...)


PAJAMAS MEDIA.com - blog: "TOP AMERICAN ISLAMIC CLERIC THREATENS U.S. ON EGYPTIAN TV Living in America while inciting violence against America" by Patrick Poole (January 7, 2009) (Read More...)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch - No. 2165: "As Gaza Fighting Continues, Egyptian Clerics Intensify Antisemitic Statements; Columbus, Ohio Muslim Scholar/Leader Dr. Salah Sultan: Muhammad Said That Judgment Day Will Not Come Until Muslims Fight the Jews and Kill Them; America Will Suffer Destruction" (December 30, 2008) (Read More...)

WASHINGTON TIMES.com: "SOMALIS IN U.S. DRAW FBI ATTENTION War at home seen as lure" by Sara A. Carter (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Many members of the Somali community are concerned over disappearances, he said.") (December 29, 2008) (Read More...)

THREATS WATCH.org - blog: "THE 'Z' IS NOT FOR ZORRO" by Jay Fraser (December 30, 2008) (Read More...)


JIHAD WATCH.org (EL PASO TIMES, December 28, 2008): "SUSPECTED AL-QAEDA OPERATIVE AT EL PASO DETENTION FACILITY AWAITING DEPORTATION AFTER PRISON TERM" (December 29, 2008) (Read More...)



FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT.org - IPT News, January 12, 2009): "U.S.-BASED IMAM URGES MUSLIMS TO JOIN THE GAZA BATTLEFIELD" (January 13, 2009) (Read More...) (NOTE: UPDATES ONGOING.)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (IsraelMFA) - VIDEO: "HAMAS MISSILES FOR ISRAELI FOOD" (January 12, 2009)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (INTERNET-HAGANAH.com): "HAMAS AND THEIR SYSTEMATIC VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAWS (NOT TO MENTION HUMAN DECENCY)" (January 11, 2009) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (INTERNET-HAGANAH.com): "IT'S NOT SO MUCH THAT THE HAMAS OFFICER WAS KILLED... it's that he was killed operating a mortar that his subordinates were not firing, because they refused to come out of hiding." (January 10, 2009) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (IDF SPOKESPERSON.com): "CAPTURED HAMAS INTELLIGENCE, 9 Jan 2009, 16:26 IST" (January 9, 2009) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG.org): "THE ROLE OF THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD WITH HAMAS AND IRAN" by Douglas Farah (January 8, 2009)

MEMRI TV.org - Video: "HAMAS In Their Own Words" (Watch Here.)

Link (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (INTERNET-HAGANAH.com): "THE BRIEF LIFE AND EXQUISITE MARTYRDOM OF A HAMAS MORTAR CREW" (January 7, 2009) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (MFA.gov.il - ISRAEL MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS): "BEHIND THE HEADLINES: THE TRAGEDY AT THE SCHOOL IN JEBALIYA" (January 6, 2009) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (ISRAEL NATIONAL NEWS.com): "INTELLIGENCE CHIEF: HIZBULLAH MAY ATTACK" (January 5, 2009) (Read More...)

FreeRepublc.com - Discussion Forum (YNET NEWS.com): "U.S. VP: ROCKET FIRE ON ISRAEL MUST STOP" by Yitzhak Benhorin, Washington (January 4, 2009, 18:17) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (IDF SPOKESPERSON.com via INTERNET-HAGANAH.com): "SUMMARY OF OVERNIGHT EVENTS, 03 JANUARY 2009" (January 3, 2009) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (ISRAEL NATIONAL NEWS.com/Various): "'AND ON THE SEVENTH DAY...' MORE ROCKET RAIN ON SOUTHERN ISRAEL" by Hana Levi Julian (January 2, 2009) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (INTERNET-HAGANAH.com/Various): "OPERATION CAST LEAD The IDF's Fight Against Terror in Gaza" (January 1, 2009) (Read More...)

ISRAEL NATIONAL NEWS.com: "SECURITY FORCES ON ALERT" (SNIPPET: "The defense establishment increased its level of alert on Thursday evening after receiving more than 60 warnings of planned attacks.") (Published January 2, 2009, 10:04 pm) (Read More...)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch - No. 2167 (AL-AQSA TV, December 30, 2008 via MEMRITV.org): "HAMAS WOMEN VOW TO BECOME 'MARTYRDOM-SEEKERS' AND BLOW THEMSELVES UP AMONG 'THE APES AND PIGS'" (December 31, 2008) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com (YNET NEWS.com, December 31, 2008, 23:56): "BARAK: HAMAS SUSTAINED SERIOUS BLOW" (December 31, 2008)

FreeRepublic.com (THE AUSTRALIAN via JIHAD WATCH.org): "ISRAEL CALLS GAZANS TO WARN THEM TO FLEE FOR SAFETY" (December 30, 2008) (Read More...)

THE MEMRI BLOG.org ("Source: IRNA, Iran, December 30, 2008"): "AHMADINEJAD: CAPITALISM, ZIONISM MUST FACE THEIR ANNIHILATION" (December 30, 2008) (Read More...)

THE MEMRI BLOG.org: "AHMADINEJAD, MASH'AL: PALESTINIAN RESISTANCE BRINGS VICTORY" (Posted December 30, 2008) (Read More...)

THE MEMRI BLOG.org - New On MEMRI TV: "IRANIAN TODDLERS ARE TAUGHT ABOUT MARTYRDOM AND THE HATRED OF ZIONISTS AGAINST THE BACKDROP OF THE GAZA FIGHTING" (Posted December 30, 2008) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com (INTERNET-HAGANAH.com): "OPERATION CAST LEAD The IDF's Fight Against Terror In Gaza" (December 29, 2008) (Read More...)

JIHAD WATCH.org (REUTERS): "IRAN'S 'COMBATANT CLERGY SOCIETY' SIGNING UP VOLUNTEERS TO FIGHT JIHAD AGAINST ISRAEL" (December 29, 2008) (Read More...)

THE MEMRI BLOG.org ("Sources: Fars, Kayhan, Sobh-e Sadeq (Iran), December 29, 2008"): "IRANIAN REACTIONS TO GAZA EVENTS" (Posted December 29, 2008) (Read More...)

YNET NEWS.com (REUTERS): "AFGHAN TALIBAN URGE MUSLIMS TO RISE UP OVER GAZA RAIDS" (Published December 29, 2008, 14:11) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com (YNET NEWS.com): "RED ALERT SOUNDED IN ASHKELON" (December 29, 2008, 11:54) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (Israel.INTERNET-HAGANAH.COM): "OPERATION CAST LEAD The IDF's Fight Against Terror in Gaza" (December 28, 2008)

JPOST.com (AP): "SAUDI CLERIC CALLS FOR TARGETING ISRAELIS ALL OVER THE WORLD" (SNIPPET: "A Saudi Web site reported on Sunday that a popular cleric issued a fatwa urging Muslims to target Israeli interests "everywhere," to avenge the attacks on the Gaza strip. The site, Rasid, posts news about Saudi Arabia's Shiite community and said that Sheik Awadh al-Garni issued a religious edict..." (December 28, 2008, 23:07) (Read More...)
THE MEMRI BLOG.org ("Source: www.palestine-info.info/ar, December 28, 2008"): "SAUDI CLERIC 'AWADH AL-QARNI HAS ISSUED A FATWA PERMITTING TO TARGET ISRAELI INTERESTS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD IN RETALIATION FOR THE GAZA ATTACK.") (Posted December 28, 2008) (Read More...)

JIHAD WATCH.org (YNET NEWS.com): "IRANIAN TOP DOG: "'All the Islamic world's pious people' must fight Israel" (December 28, 2008) (Read More...)

JIHAD WATCH.org (NAHARNET): "HIZBALLAH TOP DOG PREDICTS DIVINE VICTORY FOR HAMAS" (December 28, 2008) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (YNET NEWS): "ROCKETS LAND EAST OF ASHDOD" (December 28, 2008) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (YNET NEWS.com): "REPORT: ISRAELI AIR FORCE ATTACKS GAZA CITY" (December 27, 2008) (Read More)

Jerusalem.USCONSULATE.gov: "WARDEN MESSAGE - U.S. GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS DUE TO IDF MILITARY OPERATIONS IN GAZA" (December 27, 2008) (Read More...)

Travel.State.Gov - TRAVEL WARNING: "ISRAEL, THE WEST BANK AND GAZA" (September 26, 2008) (Read More...)



YNET NEWS.com (AP): "INTEL REPORT: HIZBULLAH MAY STRIKE IN US" (SNIPPET: "Homeland Security Threat Assessment for the years 2008-2013 says Hizbullah may foment terror attack in US if there is some kind of 'triggering' event. 'The threat of terrorism and the threat of extremist ideologies have not abated," Chertoff says.") (Published December 25, 2008, 23:52) (Read More...)

JIHAD WATCH.org (TELEGRAPH.co.uk): "U.K.: MOSQUE 'COMMITTED TO PEACE, DIVERSITY AND INTERFAITH DIALOGUE' HOSTS CONFERENCE FEATURING 'SPIRITUAL ADVISOR' TO 9/11 JIHADISTS" (SNIPPET: "The publicity material for the all-day event appears to be a clear reference to the attacks on New York, and features meteors raining down on Manhattan, setting fire to the city and shattering the Statue of Liberty.") (December 27, 2008) (Read More...)

THREATS WATCH.org - blog: "MEETING A SECURITY MILESTONE - SO?" by Jay Fraser (SNIPPET: "Our complacency could well be our undoing, despite contrary arguments.") (December 26, 2008, 12:34 pm) (Read More...)


FOX NEWS.com (AP): Washington - "REPORT: TERROR THREATS TO TARGET ECONOMIC LOSSES" (December 25, 2008) (Read More...)


IBD EDITORIALS.com: "A TERROR WARNING" (SNIPPET: "But what about President-elect Barack Obama? He faces a different problem. Many of those who voted for him either dismiss the terrorist threat, or believe none exists. Still worse, some think we should placate our enemies, not vanquish them.") (Posted December 26, 2008, 4:20 pm PT) (Read More...)
INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT.org: "TERRORISM CHALLENGES FACING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION" (December 24, 2008) (Read More...)


FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE.com: "ISRAEL AND THE IRANIAN NUCLEAR THREAT" by Louis Rene Beres and Isaac Ben-Israel (December 24, 2008) (Read More...)


DEFENSElink.mil (AMERICAN FORCES PRESS SERVICE): Washington - "CHENEY CALLS ABSENCE OF POST-9/11 ATTACKS 'REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT'" (SNIPPET: ""The threat's still out there, and still [is] very real," Cheney said.") (December 22, 2008) (Read More...)

FOX NEWS.com (AP): "RUSSIA SUPPLIES IRAN WITH SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILES, POSSIBLY TO PROTECT NUCLEAR SITE" (December 22, 2008) (Read More...)


PETROLEUM WORLD (AFP, December 21, 2008,13:28 GMT): Rome - "IRAN USING VENEZUELA TIES TO DUCK UN SANCTIONS: REPORT" (SNIPPET: "Citing US and other Western intelligence agencies, La Stampa said Iran is using aircraft from Venezuelan airline Conviasa to transport computers and engine components to Syria for use in missiles.") (December 22, 2008) (Read More...)

Travel.State.Gov - TRAVEL WARNING: "SRI LANKA" (December 22, 2008) (Read More...)


OSAC.gov - Consular Affairs Bulletins - Report - Peru: "WARDEN MESSAGE: NORTHERN PERU SECURITY PRECAUTIONS" (December 22, 2008) (Read More...)


Travel.State.Gov - TRAVEL ALERT: "INDIA" (December 24, 2008) (Read More...)

MEMRI.org - The Jihad and Terrorism Threat Monitor: "BAITULLAH MEHSUD: OUR SUICIDE BOMBERS WILL CREATE GREAT HAVOC IN INDIAN CITIES" (Posted December 24, 2008) (Read More...)

LONG WAR JOURNAL - blog: "PAKISTANI TALIBAN VOWS TO BATTLE INDIA" by Bill Roggio (December 23, 2008, 09:17 am) (Read More...)

Travel.State.Gov - TRAVEL ALERT: "INDIA" (December 19, 2008) (Read More...)


COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG.org: "OIC's 'DEFAMATION' DECLARATION COULD BE USED BY JIHADI TERROR NETWORKS" by Walid Phares (December 19, 2008) (Read More...)

Link (Read More...)


COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG.org: "NEFA FOUNDATION: FATAH AL-ISLAM CLAIMS DEATH OF LEADER, ENDORSES TERROR FINANCING THROUGH BANK ROBBERIES" by Evan Kohlmann (December 19, 2008) (Read More...)


JIHADICA.com - blog: "EMAIL INVASION OF U.S. AND U.K. UNIVERSITIES" (December 19, 2008) (Read More...)


Dallas.FBI.gov - Press Release: "SUSPICIOUS WHITE POWDER LETTERS RECEIVED AROUND THE UNITED STATES" (December 19, 2008)


FOX NEWS.com: "OWNER: MISSING AIRPLANE STOLEN BY FAKE PILOT, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS" by Rita Cant (December 18, 2008) (Read More...)


OSAC.gov - Consular Affairs Bulletins - Report - France: "WARDEN MESSAGE: FRANCE URGES SECURITY VIGILANCE" (December 17, 2008) (Read More...)


OSAC.gov - Consular Affairs Bulletins - Report Warden Message: "YEMEN KIDNAPPING ALERT" (December 16, 2008) (Read More...)


NATIONAL TERROR ALERT Response Center (GLOBAL INCIDENT MAP.com): "HEIGHTENED AWARENESS RECOMMENDED FOR RAILWAYS OPERATING ALONG THE US-MEXICO BORDER" (December 15, 2008) (Read More...)

Travel.State.Gov - TRAVEL ALERT: "MEXICO" (October 14, 2008) (Read More...)


JIHAD WATCH.org (TIMES ONLINE.co.uk): "U.K.: COUNTERTERROR ADVISOR TO METROPOLITAN POLICE IS ON INTERPOL WANTED LIST" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Mohamed Ali Harrath has been the subject of the Interpol red notice since 1992 because of his alleged activities in Tunisia, where he co-founded the Tunisian Islamic Front (FIT). Tunisia has accused Mr Harrath, the chief executive officer of the Islam Channel in Britain and an adviser to the Scotland Yard Muslim Contact Unit, of seeking help from Osama bin Laden. It says that the FIT wants to establish "an Islamic state by means of armed revolutionary violence".") (December 15, 2008) (Read More...)

JIHAD WATCH.org (DAILY EXPRESS): "TALIBAN GROOMS CHILDREN FOR SUICIDE ATTACKS" (December 14, 2008) (Read More...)


JIHAD WATCH.org (TELEGRAPH.co.uk, December 13, 2008): "HYDERABAD: SCORES OF YOUNG MUSLIMS HAVE 'DISAPPEARED' TO PAKISTAN FOR JIHAD TRAINING" (December 14, 2008) (Read More...)

TIMES OF INDIA: Avijit Ghosh, TNN - "MAJOR JIHADI GROUPS HAVE DISAPPEARED, SAYS PAK NEWSPAPER" (December 13, 2008, 2022 hrs IST) (Read More...)


LONG WAR JOURNAL.org - blog (THE WEEKLY STANDARD): "AL QAEDA'S ANTHRAX SCIENTIST" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The government of Malaysia made a curious announcement this week: Yazid Sufaat, a known al Qaeda operative, and four other alleged terrorists have been released from jail.") (December 12, 2008, 1:16 pm) (Read More...)
Link (read More...)


MEMRI.org - Inquiry and Analysis Series - No. 479: "CALLS IN IRAN TO TOPPLE EGYPTIAN, SAUDI REGIMES" by Y. Mansharof (December 12, 2008) (Read More...)


THE MEMRI BLOG.org ("Source: Al-Mustaqbal, Lebanon, December 11, 2008"): "REPORT IN LEBANON: FEAR OF ATTEMPTS TO STRIKE AT UNIFIL" (December 11, 2008) (Read More...)


OSAC.gov - Consular Affairs Bulletins - Report: "WARDEN MESSAGE: LIBYA SECURITY NOTICE" (December 11, 2008) (Read More...)


Dallas.FBI.gov - Press Release: "SUSPICIOUS WHITE POWDER LETTERS RECEIVED AROUND THE UNITED STATES" (December 10, 2008) (Read More...)


Travel.State.Gov: "TRAVEL ALERT: "MALI" (December 10, 2008) (Read More...)


ICC-CCS.org: "PIRACY ALERT" (December 9, 2008) (Read More...)


Yemen.US EMBASSY.gov - Travel Warnings and Warden Messages: "CONTINUED TERRORIST THREATS TO WESTERN INTERESTS IN YEMEN" (December 13, 2008) (Read More...)

OSAC.gov - Consular Affairs Bulletins - Report: "WARDEN MESSAGE: YEMEN ALERT FOR WESTERN HOTELS" (December 12, 2008) (Read More...)

OSAC.gov - Report: "WARDEN MESSAGE: CONTINUED THREATS, YEMEN" (December 8, 2008) (Read More...)


COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG.org: "MEXICO: GROWING TERROR AND CLOSE TO COLLAPSE" by Douglas Farah (December 8, 2008, 12:25 pm) (Read More...)

Link (Read More...)


JPOST.com: "INDIA WARNS THAT AL-QAIDA TARGETING GOA" by Yaakov Lappin (SNIPPET: ""Today, Goa faces serious threat from terrorists and there were specific inputs that al-Qaida would target certain [tourist] installations in Goa. Goa has a coastline of 105 km., major sea ports and beaches," the state's chief secretary, J.P. Singh, wrote in a memo, according to Indian media.") (Updated December 8, 2008, 5:21) (Read More...)

FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE.com (PAJAMAS MEDIA via FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE): "SOMALIS LEAVING U.S. FOR JIHAD" by Patrick Poole (December 12, 2008) (Read More...)

JIHAD WATCH.org (ISLAM IN EUROPE, December 6, 2008): "SOMALIS LEAVING DENMARK TO WAGE JIHAD IN SOMALIA" (December 7, 2008) (Read More...)

THE MEMRI BLOG.org: "SOMALI JIHADISTS CALL ON AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN MUSLIMS TO JOIN JIHAD IN SOMALIA" (Posted November 27, 2008) (Read More...)

SHABELLE.net (Read More...)


INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT.org - IPT News: "NEW DANISH BOOK DRAWS JIHADIST IRE" (December 5, 2008) (Read More...)


JIHAD WATCH.org: "EGYPTIAN CLERIC CALLS OBAMA TO CONVERT TO ISLAM" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Note the clear implication that if the one to whom this call is issued does not become a Muslim, his life and property will not be safe.") (December 4, 2008) (Read More...)
MEMRI TV.org - Video clip No. 1934: "Egyptian Cleric Hassan Abu Al-Ashbal Calls on President-Elect Obama to Convert to Islam, and Threatens: We Have People Who are Eager to Die" (November 27, 2008) (Watch Here.)

Video - Link (Read More...)


ME TIMES.com - MIDDLE EAST TIMES: Washington, D.C. - "FEDS SCRUTINIZE U.S. LeT CELLS" by Richard Sale (Published December 5, 2008) (Read More...)


Link

ABC NEWS.go.com - blog: "MUMBAI: WHERE ARE THE 14 OTHER PAKISTANI-TRAINED TERRORISTS?" by Len Tepper, Richard Esposito, and Brian Ross (December 3, 2008) (Read More...)

FreeRepublic.com - Discussion Forum (NDTV - PRESS TRUST OF INDIA, December 4, 2008): "ANTONY WARNS OF AIRBORNE TERROR THREATS, CALLS FOR ALERTS" (Posted December 3, 2008) (Read More...)

Broadband.INDIA TIMES.com - Video: "NOW, TERROR EMAIL THREATENS AIRPORTS" (Watch Here.)


UNINHABITED ISLANDS CAN BECOME JIHADI BASES" Vishwa Mohan, TNN (December 3, 2008, 0300 IST) (Read More...)


MEMRI IWMP.org - Islamist Website Monitor - blog: "REPORT: AL-QAEDA IN THE ISLAMIC MAGHREB DISCUSSED ATTACK ON ALGERIAN PARLIAMENT, ARMY COS, MINISTERS" (Posted December 3, 2008) (Read More...)

Link (Read More...)


WHITEHOUSE.gov - News - Fact Sheet: "DEFENDING AGAINST WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TERRORISM Commission Report Endorses Administration Initiatives and Calls for Continuation of Successful WMD Policies to Address Increasing Threat" (December 3, 2008) (Read More...)

LIFE IN ITALY.com (ANSA): Milan - "TERROR SUSPECTS 'TARGETING ITALY'" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The men are believed to have watched instructional films on terrorist attacks and researched methods on the Internet."ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Police also seized the Peace Cultural Centre in the Lombardy village of Macherio, where Ilhami worked as a preacher, during Tuesday's operation. According to investigators, small groups of fundamentalists met at the centre in the evenings after the day's official sermons were finished.") (December 2, 2008)
Link



8 posted on 01/14/2009 1:47:11 AM PST by Cindy
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To: chris37

>>I simply do not care what happens to these vicious, horrible people. Let me see if I can muster a feeling...nope, nothing. If they can dish it out, then surely they can take it. Maybe Allah will give them a few extra virgins for their trouble.<<

My Grand Daddy used to tell a story about a woman who screamed at a man for holding the door for her - yelling “you don’t have to hold for me because I’m a lady.”

The man responded “I don’t even know whether you are a lady - I held the door because I am a gentleman.”

Obviously we are talking about a deadly serious situation, not just hold a door, but there is a similar principle - that we treat others humanely not because of their worthiness but because of our character and best interest.


9 posted on 01/14/2009 1:48:09 AM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: gondramB

If the prisoner sees someone wearing a cross lapel pin.... is it torture? If their last meal was not halal is it torture? If their lawyer doesn’t take a secret code for their handlers in the US is it torture? some people have an odd idea on what is torture.


10 posted on 01/14/2009 1:48:41 AM PST by GeronL (sanity prone freeper)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

There is certainly strong disagreement on this issue... but I find I get treated better here when I’m in the minority on an issue than on most other boards.

I appreciate your post.


11 posted on 01/14/2009 1:50:10 AM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: gondramB
And of course when you read the article you quickly discover that there was no torture, and this woman, this "Susan Crawford", is just another liberal scumbag who is stabbing Bush in the back on his way out the door, just like he deserves for having Democrat scum like Crawford in his administration in the first place.

"The techniques they used were all authorized, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent," Crawford sniffed. "You think of torture, you think of some horrendous physical act done to an individual," she told the Post. "This was not any one particular act; this was just a combination of things that had a medical impact on him, that hurt his health. It was abusive and uncalled for."

"They were mean to him!"

Interrogation techniques used on Qahtani included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold.

Friggin' yawn....

12 posted on 01/14/2009 1:50:56 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: DieHard the Hunter

>>War is a terrible thing to do. Driving aeroplanes into the side of the World Trade Center is a terrible thing to do. Slamming an aeroplane into the Pentagon is a terrible thing to do. Driving an aeroplane into a Pennsylvania field is a terrible thing to do. Sawing off people’s heads with dull knives on TV is a terrible thing to do. Blowing up trains during rush hour is a terrible thing to do...

So where does it stop, and where does it begin? At what point is the Enemy going to respect human rights at least as much as we do?

This particular enemy doesn’t, and won’t.

In that context, then, waterboarding the Enemy is a mild, measured and polite response that is well within the confines of moral justifiability.<<

Generally I support the death penalty for pretty much any terrorist action that results in a death... and support it strongly for the examples you list.

But we don’t give somebody the death penalty in secret and without carefully justifying it. I’m arguing the standard for torture should be rigorous and also subject to justification of an imminent saving of life.


13 posted on 01/14/2009 1:53:40 AM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: Lancey Howard

>>And of course when you read the article you quickly discover that there was no torture, and this woman, this “Susan Crawford”, is just another liberal scumbag who is stabbing Bush in the back on his way out the door, just like he deserves for having Democrat scum like Crawford in his administration in the first place.<<

I don’t if Wikipedia is accurate but this is what it says about her

>>Susan J. Crawford is an American lawyer, who was appointed the convening authority for the Guantanamo military commissions, on February 7, 2007.[1] Secretary of Defense Robert Gates appointed Crawford to replace John D. Altenburg.[2] She had previously served as judge and chief judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces, Inspector General of the Department of Defense (appointed by George H. W. Bush), General Counsel for the Department of the Army (appointed by Ronald Reagan) and Assistant State’s Attorney for Garrett County, Maryland.[3][4]<<


14 posted on 01/14/2009 1:56:31 AM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: gondramB

This torture might have consisted of forcing the detainee to sit through “Mamma Mia” all the way to the end.


15 posted on 01/14/2009 2:00:27 AM PST by John Valentine
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To: gondramB

More inmates are tortured in the California Correctional system then in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.

Always remember to a muslim, beheadings are not torture.


16 posted on 01/14/2009 2:01:01 AM PST by NoLibZone (Islam must be completely eradicated from the face of the Earth.)
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To: GeronL

>>If the prisoner sees someone wearing a cross lapel pin.... is it torture? If their last meal was not halal is it torture? If their lawyer doesn’t take a secret code for their handlers in the US is it torture? some people have an odd idea on what is torture.<<

I formed some of my opinion on this when I worked for a college newspaper and was sent to cover an anti-abortion protest. Protesters laid down in front of cars to stop women from being delivered to the clinic for abortions.

The police twisted the protesters’ arms until the pain caused them to agree to stop blocking the cars.

I thought about it and concluded that torture included the government using pain to force people to do or say something the would not do willingly when there was another way.

I think putting somebody in a freezer until they have to be hospitalized would qualify.


17 posted on 01/14/2009 2:01:40 AM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: All
JIHAD WATCH.org (THE SMOKING GUN): "TORTURE, AL QAEDA STYLE" (May 24, 2007)

THE SMOKING GUN.com: "TORTURE, AL-QAEDA STYLE Drawings, tools seized from Iraq safe house in U.S. Military raid" (May 24, 2007)

18 posted on 01/14/2009 2:02:36 AM PST by Cindy
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To: NoLibZone

>>More inmates are tortured in the California Correctional system then in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.<<

I watched a show on supermax prison in Cali - I think I’d rather be dead.


19 posted on 01/14/2009 2:02:56 AM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: gondramB

> But we don’t give somebody the death penalty in secret and without carefully justifying it. I’m arguing the standard for torture should be rigorous and also subject to justification of an imminent saving of life.

Perhaps during a time of war “Torture” (or more properly “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques”) should be relegated to the level of Field Court Martial. Same as hanging spies or applying Field Punishments #1 and #2 for delinquent troops.

So what I am suggesting is that it should be made an operational decision and not something that requires senior court oversight.


20 posted on 01/14/2009 2:05:42 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: All

Note: This is public information.

So, what is lesson 18?

Here’s a copy right here.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jihad18chap1.html

#

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jihadmanual.html


21 posted on 01/14/2009 2:11:26 AM PST by Cindy
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To: gondramB

and what was the torture in this particular case?


22 posted on 01/14/2009 2:12:56 AM PST by GeronL (sanity prone freeper)
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To: gondramB

Its a fine line but F, Qhatami and his ilk


23 posted on 01/14/2009 2:13:26 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could be Farts)
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To: gondramB
If I were in charge of the interrogations they would have to find a new word. because torture wouldn't begin to describe what I would do to these subhuman animals.
24 posted on 01/14/2009 2:14:43 AM PST by BigCinBigD ('When a man believes that any stick will do, he at once picks up a boomerang,')
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To: GeronL

>>and what was the torture in this particular case?<<

I think she is arguing the combination stripping him and refrigerating him to coerce a statement became torture when it caused him to be hospitalized.

I would think refrigerating someone to coerce a statement is torture before that happens.

But as to the 20th hijacker, if they caught him quickly so that he knew about any further attacks that day I can see possible justification for torture.


25 posted on 01/14/2009 2:17:28 AM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: gondramB

Sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold...

sounds like my normal Saturday night...


26 posted on 01/14/2009 2:21:04 AM PST by maddog55
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To: maddog55

Here comes the “we have to close Guantanamo, the sooner the better” stories.


27 posted on 01/14/2009 2:24:58 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz ("Control the information, you control the people.")
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To: gondramB

The U.S. has alleged that al-Qahtani, who military records show is about 28, barely missed becoming the 20th hijacker on Sept. 11, 2001. The Saudi was denied entry into the country by immigration agents at the airport in Orlando, Florida. At the time, he had more than $2,400 in cash, no return plane ticket and lead hijacker Mohamed Atta was waiting for him...——— “Alleged ‘20th Hijacker’ Claims Torture,” Associated Press ^ | 09/09/07 | BEN FOX


28 posted on 01/14/2009 2:27:01 AM PST by piasa
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To: BigCinBigD
"If I were in charge of the interrogations they would have to find a new word. because torture wouldn't begin to describe what I would do to these subhuman animals."

I would make the middle ages and the Inquisition look like a birthday party for a bunch of 5 yr. olds.

All these people are doing is preying on the touchy, feely, emotionaly adolescent liberals and their so called "High Moral Ground".

29 posted on 01/14/2009 2:28:53 AM PST by skimask (Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience)
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To: gondramB

I would have taken it a step further- torturing his family in front of him.


30 posted on 01/14/2009 2:32:50 AM PST by WackySam (Is the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on- or by imbeciles who really mean it?)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

“So where does it stop, and where does it begin? At what point is the Enemy going to respect human rights at least as much as we do?”

This scenario is eventually going to end with some atoms being split.


31 posted on 01/14/2009 2:33:54 AM PST by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: PLMerite

> This scenario is eventually going to end with some atoms being split.

Sadly, yes.


32 posted on 01/14/2009 2:40:30 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: gondramB
Reading through some of the "touchy-feely" stuff here, one thing is plain to see:

The last bits of outrage over the events of September 11, 2001 are almost gone.

I hate those people for what they did to my Country, and to my Countrymen on that day. Anything we do to rid the earth of them will be just short of enough.

Sometimes people use the word "genocide" like it's a bad thing....

33 posted on 01/14/2009 2:49:50 AM PST by PalmettoMason ("an empty limousine pulled up in front of the White House, and Barack Obama got out")
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To: gondramB

official responsible for reviewing practices at Guantanamo Bay says the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the Washington Post reported.
“We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani,” Susan J. Crawford told the Post. “His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that’s why I did not refer the case” for prosecution.


THANK YOU UNITED STATES MILITARY. YOU did your DUTY even while those that control our GOVERNMENT now REFUSE to do THEIR DUTY..


34 posted on 01/14/2009 2:51:20 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Coming to You From the Front Lines of Occupied America)
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To: gondramB

I fear that the left has hijacked this issue by redefining “torture” to mean “any technique whatsoever for applying duress.” Under that definition it would be torture for a police agency to tell a murder suspect that if he didn’t confess he’d be tried, convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment.


35 posted on 01/14/2009 2:52:34 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham ("A laurel, and hearty handshake ....")
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To: DieHard the Hunter; gondramB; Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

I’m with DieHard on this one.

As Christians, I believe it is our DUTY to do whatever needs to be done in order to thwart the plans of evil people whose mantra is “First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people”.

I guess I am not “intelligent, conservative, or Christian”, because I believe we are responsible to protect innocent people. These jihadists are wringing their hands with delight when we come after our own governments for doing what they have to do to protect us.

People like you must go ballistic when we actually kill the enemy - those who would gladly slit your throat, given the chance.


36 posted on 01/14/2009 2:53:54 AM PST by JudyinCanada
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To: gondramB

Perhaps we could have torture warrants and the government should have to make its case to torture. I simply don’t trust the government enough to decide on torture without checks and balance that the public can observe.

Good point. The problem is I DON’T TRUST the Government enough to decide to do the right thing and put American citizens lives ahead of kissing up to the Islamist and the World Socialist...


37 posted on 01/14/2009 2:53:54 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Coming to You From the Front Lines of Occupied America)
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To: gondramB

But we need some check to keep the government from torturing more broadly. Absent immediately saving another life, torture is cruel as defined by the Constitution

These past 2 years as America has rushed headlong towards becoming a Socialist Country I have studied the United States Constitution intently. While not a rocket scientist I am positive I saw no reference to the legality or the morality of the use of torture to protect the citizens of the Nation. Perhaps you could post the Article and section where you found this definiton of torture?


38 posted on 01/14/2009 2:58:11 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Coming to You From the Front Lines of Occupied America)
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To: gondramB

>>>Torture is terrible thing to do - worse in many cases than killing them.<<<

That is pure bull, especially in the context of those held at Guitmo, where “torture” has been defined by the NYT and other leftist propaganda outlets as “Loud Music” and “Water Boarding”.

>>>But we need some check to keep the government from torturing more broadly.<<<

What we really need is some check to keep the news media from deceiving us—from siding with one political stripe or another. Our real enemy in this day and age is the New York Times’s, the Bill Moyer’s, the Brian William’s, and the Chris Matthew’s of this world.


39 posted on 01/14/2009 3:05:48 AM PST by PhilipFreneau (Make the world a safer place: throw a leftist reporter under a train.)
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To: gondramB
I would think refrigerating someone to coerce a statement is torture before that happens.

Generally, "a statement" is thought of in terms of a confession. I believe most of the interrogations were for extracting operational intelligence, not confessions. Such intel can be checked against other sources and either substantiated or rejected. If rejected toss the prisoner back in the cooler. Unless a masochist the prisoner will learn to be truthful.

40 posted on 01/14/2009 3:07:50 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: SECURE AMERICA

The liberal bleeding hearts protest the possibility of returning subhuman feces like this prisoner back to his HOME in Saudi Arabia. Instead, they want them in the USA, of course not where they happen to live. The ultimate placement of these monsters will be interesting to watch unfold.


41 posted on 01/14/2009 3:09:38 AM PST by doosee
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To: gondramB
You can't send a girl to do a man's job.

Poor President Bush. He chose the metaphor of "war" without being prepared, and without preparing the People, to fight one.

FDR had the German terrorists arrested, interrogated to confession, tried, appealed, reviewed by the Supreme Court, and electrocuted in six weeks from the time they got their feet wet at Amagansett.

If you're interested in what taking the nation to war means, study FDR's first month of executive orders from 12/8/41-1/7/42. Total peace to total war in a can, so to speak.

I personally don't care what happens to the enemy at Gitmo (that's just me, I know it's an issue, I just can't muster any interest in it).

But to send them there with no plan - to, in essence, surrender to the cowardly view that if they were brought to US territory that lawyers and courts could be allowed supremacy over the War Power of the People of the United States, and then to have no plan to kill them once their usefulness to us was finished - that was the act of a bumbling adolescent, not a Commander-in-Chief.

This absurdity of some girl lawyer kicking him in the ass as he goes out the door follows from what went before.

42 posted on 01/14/2009 3:13:30 AM PST by Jim Noble (Long May Our Land Be Bright With Freedom's Holy Light)
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To: gondramB
...torture is cruel as defined by the Constitution.

What Constitution?
Our 8th Amendment does ban “cruel and unusual punishments”, but at the time such punishments as cutting off an ear, branding with a hot iron, stocks and pillories were common and accepted. People accepted these as necessary - something had to be done to law breakers. Note: our Constitution only speaks to punishment, not interrogations.
Jails were used to hold suspects until trial, not for long term detention. Our first prison wasn’t established until 1790 in Philadelphia. Prisons were still rare and it wasn’t until the 19th century that more were added.

43 posted on 01/14/2009 3:30:04 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Jim Noble

War sucks. War is when laws are no longer being followed, therefore rules of what is torture and what isn’t should be best left to the discretion of those in the field, who need the information the most.

Gitanamo is an example of America’s humanity toward human beings. We are a kind people. Most of these vermin would have had a bullet in the head in on the battlefield if they didn’t want to talk, not simply detained and sent to Club Gitmo.

I say torture, as this is a war. This is not a law and order issue. This is a do-what-it-takes to win. I hate it, too, but it must be done.


44 posted on 01/14/2009 3:30:49 AM PST by Big Giant Head (I should change my tagline to "Big Giant penguin on my Head")
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To: gondramB
Susan J. Crawford should witness firsthard what we expose our military personnel to during interrogation and water survival training before she starts serving up the word "torture" to an irresponsible MSM.

A short ride in the helo dunker for her.
45 posted on 01/14/2009 3:34:16 AM PST by Thrownatbirth (.....Iraq Invasion fan since '91.)
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To: gondramB

He was and is a non uniformed combatant and therefore should have been executed. How’s that for torture, Susan?


46 posted on 01/14/2009 3:35:58 AM PST by doodad
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To: JudyinCanada

There is a difference between killing the enemy and torturing the enemy. You are either intentionally confusing them or are (as you admitted) not intelligent enough to differentiate.

One is a necessary action in defense of one’s own life.

The other is a sadistic practice proven to have little or no use other than to fulfill the desire for vengeance on the part of those aggrieved and the sexual deviant perversions of the torturer. It also degrades the entire people who the torturer represents to the level of the enemy.


47 posted on 01/14/2009 3:39:28 AM PST by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (Bomb Liechtenstein!)
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To: Jim Noble
I wouldn't blame Pres Bush for that. Here's your real culprit:

Supreme Court Sides With Gitmo Detainees
Bush Unhappy With 5-4 Ruling That Foreign Terror Suspects Can Challenge Detention

(CBS/ AP) In a stinging rebuke to President Bush's anti-terror policies, a deeply divided Supreme Court ruled Thursday that foreign detainees held for years at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba have the right to appeal to U.S. civilian courts to challenge their indefinite imprisonment without charges.

48 posted on 01/14/2009 3:40:45 AM PST by Alas Babylon!
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To: Westlander

Take no prisoners. End of story.


49 posted on 01/14/2009 3:41:47 AM PST by RU88 (The false messiah can not change water into wine any more than he can get unity from diversity.)
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To: SECURE AMERICA
“His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that’s why I did not refer the case” for prosecution.

I don't understand that phrase. What is she talking about?

50 posted on 01/14/2009 3:43:14 AM PST by doodad
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