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'Attempted hit' put on Ramos family
World Net Daily Email | 1/15/2009 | Staff

Posted on 01/15/2009 8:34:40 AM PST by IbJensen

The family of imprisoned Border Patrol agent Ignacio Ramos was the victim of an attempted hit on their lives this month, as the agent's wife says someone broke into their home and filled it with gas, trashing photographs and pummeling their dog.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: borderpatrol; ramos
Thanks for setting them up el Presidente Bush!
1 posted on 01/15/2009 8:34:40 AM PST by IbJensen
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To: IbJensen
Thanks for setting them up el Presidente Bush!

How dare you criticize our Fearless Leader! After all, he kept us safe for the last eight years!

/SARC


2 posted on 01/15/2009 8:35:42 AM PST by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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To: IbJensen

Sounds like more of an attempt to scare them, probably originating on this side of the border. An attempted hit from south of the border would have likely been sucessfull in spectacular fasion.


3 posted on 01/15/2009 8:37:33 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: IbJensen
Can Sutton explain where he was at the time? He'd be my first suspect ~ and if we can get an investigation going this time next week he'll be unemployed, out of a job, no prospects with a big lawfirm, and a big mortgage payment to meet.

Guy like that would do breakins.

4 posted on 01/15/2009 8:40:18 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: IbJensen

Bingo! The Bush worship on FR has reached all time highs while the people he’s done wrong during his tenure are having their dogs pummeled by the Mexican mafia. Good work W!


5 posted on 01/15/2009 8:42:16 AM PST by Troll_House_Cookies (Ironically, Chancellor Obama's first re-education camp will be in Alaska.)
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To: IbJensen

Perhaps a gift from one of those honest, hard working folks here to do the jobs Americans won’t do. Jorge’s administration has been a real Godsend for these two families, huh? Bush has done some good things and some bad, like most presidents. But placing and keeping these men in prison...destroying their families, this act alone makes him an even bigger BUM than Clinton or Carter. It is beyond inexcuseable.


6 posted on 01/15/2009 8:42:25 AM PST by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
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To: IbJensen

Wow... an e-mail from WND. Doesn’t get more authoritative than that!


7 posted on 01/15/2009 8:44:14 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Oldpuppymax

Admin, your job is getting harder by the day.

There are becoming almost no acceptable words from the English language to use in these threads.


8 posted on 01/15/2009 8:44:43 AM PST by George from New England (escaped CT 2006; now living north of Tampa Bay)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: r9etb

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=86141


10 posted on 01/15/2009 8:50:56 AM PST by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: George from New England

“There are becoming almost no acceptable words ... “

`Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should.’
So what does you want—good grammar or good taste?


11 posted on 01/15/2009 8:52:38 AM PST by tumblindice (I hope someday to be the man my dog thinks I am.)
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To: IbJensen

No doubt that there was something other than a robbery done on the home. The El Paso area is quite poor, and there are a lot of burglaries...few will take the time to “turn on the gas” in a home in a burglary spree....there are too many other places to hit

Jorge Boosh’s refusal to pardon Ramos and Compean is an outright travesty. Only the most brain-dead liberal GOPer still supports Boosh.

All this to pander to illegal aliens....what an anti-American tragedy


12 posted on 01/15/2009 8:54:09 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (The US Chamber of Commerce is really the Anti-American Collective of Communists)
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To: George from New England

President Bush believes his Christianity and his friends mix. His biggest shortcoming is his belief in his friends. He believed Rumsfeld who told him to continue the course in Iraq (Surge, we don’t need no stinking surge!) and he believed those who told him that Ramos and Compean were guilty.

President Bush will burn in hell, mainly because of what he has allowed to happen to these two men.


13 posted on 01/15/2009 8:54:26 AM PST by american_ranger (Never ever use DirecTV)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
it was these guys
14 posted on 01/15/2009 8:59:11 AM PST by Troll_House_Cookies (Ironically, Chancellor Obama's first re-education camp will be in Alaska.)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
All this to pander to illegal aliens....what an anti-American tragedy.

How very true!

Bushie has worked overtime greasing the rails and carrying the heavy loads to make Obomba's job easier in morphing our USA into a third world nation.

Goodbye, traitor!

15 posted on 01/15/2009 9:04:30 AM PST by IbJensen (The USA has been failing since Wilson, Take this country back now before it's too late.)
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To: Oldpuppymax
It is beyond inexcuseable.

Let this, then, be his legacy. He can now crawl down into the netherworld with Carter and Clinton.

Obomba will join them in one term, or less.

16 posted on 01/15/2009 9:06:41 AM PST by IbJensen (The USA has been failing since Wilson, Take this country back now before it's too late.)
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To: muawiyah

The conspiratorial blindness that could lead a supposedly sentient being to suspect that a sitting, well-respected U.S. Attorney trashed somebody’s house is indicative of the derangement of some of the pro-CR folks here.

The fact that none of the pro-CR folks will even suggest your theory is nuts is indicative of the level of discourse expected.


17 posted on 01/15/2009 9:12:15 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: american_ranger

I agree with your sentiments up to “George Bush will burn in hell”. You don’t know that, it’s not your place, and to pretend that you do puts your soul in grave danger.

I mean, there are lots of people that we all of us get insanely angry with, but having heard about the visions that some saints have been priveledged to have of hell, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. That’s right, no one, ever. Hell is real, hell is forever, and hell is, well, hell.


18 posted on 01/15/2009 9:13:54 AM PST by SaintDismas
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To: IbJensen
Jorge needs to pardon these men and let them protect their families from this rabble.

Pardon them President Bush or may it be on your conscience for the rest of your retirement.

19 posted on 01/15/2009 9:18:28 AM PST by 444Flyer (Blame Hamas)
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To: muawiyah

That is the single nuttiest thing I’ve heard yet in my years at FR. Give me a break. Sutton isn’t breaking into people houses and beating dogs.


20 posted on 01/15/2009 9:19:23 AM PST by Melas
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To: r9etb

I asked on one of the other threads about this same WND story if anybody had a link to an actual article about the break-in. Nobody has responded.

I wonder why the dog-sitter didn’t blow up. I presume if they left their dog at home for a week while they went on vacation that they had someone coming over to take care of the dog.


21 posted on 01/15/2009 9:20:12 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Look, CW, we all know Sutton took the "possession of a gun in commission of a crime" statute and stretched it beyond all reason just so he had a long enough sentence to convince DOJ to give him the money for the prosecution.

That's why I treat anything to do with Sutton as though Sutton is a worthless drifter who somehow came into knowledge of a con that he's been using on everybody ~ or, alternatively that Sutton is a mad man.

In short, Chuckee Baybee, we consider Sutton a mentally unstable clown!

22 posted on 01/15/2009 9:21:40 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Melas
Hey, Sutton isn't out of a job yet either is he. Did you read my facetious post throughly and run it through your noggin a few times to see where this is headed.

In fact, a really clever Freeper would see that I used Sutton's logic to come up with 11 and 12 year terms to come up with the idea that he, Sutton, would be breaking into homes, so we might as well blame him for this one.

23 posted on 01/15/2009 9:23:38 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: IbJensen
President Bush has done a great job preventing another 9/11. President Bush did a terrible job where these two border guards are concerned. The 1st will outweigh the second. But not by much.
24 posted on 01/15/2009 9:27:25 AM PST by McGruff
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To: CharlesWayneCT
BTW, Chuckee, Sutton is not at all "well respected" ~ you'll see once he's out of office. At the moment he can command respect because he's shown himself to be kind of a loose cannon ready to toss people into prison on questionable charges.

Once he's out of office, and on his own, he's got NO FRIENDS.

25 posted on 01/15/2009 9:28:58 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
All this to pander to illegal aliens....what an anti-American tragedy

I don't think he's pandering to illegal aliens. I think it's more a situation of; NOBODY shoots one of the Bush's drug mules (Davilla) and gets away with it.

And before the flaming starts, the Bush's have a very long history of being intertwined in illegal drug-running, going back to the time Papa was heading up the CIA.

Our bogus War on Drugs is WAAAAAAAAY too profitable.

26 posted on 01/15/2009 9:36:04 AM PST by Ranger Drew
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Oh, well... at least threads like this allow one to keep tabs on who’s in the whackadoodle contingent....


27 posted on 01/15/2009 9:39:40 AM PST by r9etb
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To: muawiyah

Assuming your opinion of what Sutton did is accurate, and the trained legal professionals whose job it is to evaluate your claim has found it baseless, provides no support for your wild accusations.

You might as well say that since you think your hair is green, the moon must be made of green cheese.


28 posted on 01/15/2009 10:00:52 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

WND Article, below.
There is also info. regarding the latest colon cleaning
technology so that, if you wish, you can flush five to
fifteen pounds of undigested waste from your colon.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=86141


29 posted on 01/15/2009 10:01:10 AM PST by tumblindice (I hope someday to be the man my dog thinks I am.)
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To: r9etb

I’d love to see one of the conspiracy theorists explain exactly what the POINT would be of trashing the guy’s house.

It’s not like the family needs to be intimidated into not speaking because they are having some effect on people.


30 posted on 01/15/2009 10:04:22 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: tumblindice

I didn’t know we carried that much waste around with us. I guess that would be a useful thing for someone who had to lose weight quickly.

As for the article, the entire article is based on what the family told the reporter. It says the house was broken into while they were visiting her husband in prison. It says she thinks the gas was on for two days. It doesn’t say how long they were off visiting, it doesn’t say how she knows when the break-in happened, it doesn’t say if anybody was taking care of the dog, or whether the dog was inside or outside.


31 posted on 01/15/2009 10:10:16 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
CW, the "experts" are amatuers at interpreting just how far you can stretch a law or a federal regulation. I'm sure that given 5 minutes thought on the matter I could have Sutton's entire office prosecuted for having caused Ramos and Campeon to have had guns on the job, right there at hand, to shoot dope dealers.

You see what the problem is, Sutton had to have a case worth pursuing ~ 10 years for example ~ and he didn't, so he found a bunch of ignorant Western hillbillies to buy into this idea. And they did.

32 posted on 01/15/2009 10:16:30 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: McGruff
I think that the entire illegal alien lovefest on Bush's part will trump any good this 'moderate' socialist has done.

He's made Obomba's job easier by design as apparently even though Obomba is a fraud they both belong to the same club.

33 posted on 01/15/2009 10:27:30 AM PST by IbJensen (The USA has been failing since Wilson, Take this country back now before it's too late.)
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To: tumblindice
There is also info. regarding the latest colon cleaning technology so that, if you wish...

Colon Powell has done much 'cleansing' so, most of us have had quite enough of the Busies.

34 posted on 01/15/2009 10:29:59 AM PST by IbJensen (The USA has been failing since Wilson, Take this country back now before it's too late.)
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To: muawiyah

I suppose you could live life assuming that we filled our district and appeals courts with amateurs ignorant of the law or it’s application.

I’ve certainly had judgments of the supreme court that I have disagreed with, so I’m not much for respecting authority for authority’s sake.

But I’m pretty sure I don’t want police to be allowed to use their weapons to commit crimes simply because they were given the weapons to protect us.

Which means that if the police are convicted of committing a crime, and they use their weapons to do so, I would expect they would be subject to the same laws I would be subjected to if I used my gun while committing a crime.


35 posted on 01/15/2009 6:06:53 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Alas, you miss the whole point. The way the law is written it's not just the perp, but the perp's cappos, and the cappo di tutti cappo who can be charged with responsibility for the weapon's presence.

There are cases aplenty where the prosecutors have reached out and grabbed such folks ~

If you wanted to include cops in the net you should have written the law to do that, else you also write in the entire chain of command, and that includes, as it turns out, the President, the Secretary, the appropriate Under Secretary, etc., etc., etc. ~ the cappos. It's quite obvious Congress never intended such a thing ~ no President, no Secretary, no border patrolman.

You have a bad law stretched beyond its limits to do improper selective prosecutions.

That's why Sutton needed a bunch of bills to do the job. He'd never gotten away with it in DC.

And yes, I do believe we tend to man the Justice Department with yahoos and assholes. I had a perfectly good finding that a well known NGO owed the government over $10 million. The DOJ lawyers wanted to knock that down to 10%.

Typical DOJ lawyer.

He was overridden and they ended up going for the whole thing. Our own agency lawyers were chagrined ~ they knew that I'd always look down at them and other government lawyers the rest of their careers, and I do.

Snort!

36 posted on 01/15/2009 6:25:55 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Note, the not counting the bullets crime, which is the only one Sutton could prove without the testimony of a Mexican dope runner, doesn't carry an 11 or 12 year penalty ~ 6 months tops depending on circumstances, and usually just a letter to the personnel file.

DOJ simply does not fund prosecutions that send a cup to stir for 6 months for paperwork errors.

It does, OTOH, fund prosecuting them for 10 years.

Sutton needed the gun thing interpreted by an aggressive careerist female (as I understood it) so he could get the prosecution funded.

We cannot help but notice that the two guys were Mexican Americans, and I would imagine you can get them prosecuted day and night out there in that part of the country ~ the locals don't differentiat between Mexican cops and Mexican criminals, American citizenship or not.

Maybe Sutton imagined "W" would promote him ~ that'd be useful 4 or 8 years from now.

Guy ruined his future career in Conservative or Republican politics. He'll have to become a Leftwingtard now.

37 posted on 01/15/2009 6:48:38 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

The law deals with people who were in on the crime, not the people who provided the weapons, if the weapons were provided legally.

You’d have the same issue with a security guard using his weapon to go off and commit other crimes.

Now, I think it is quite a stretch to charge a gun crime when the police officers were on duty, performing an official act sanctioned by authority, even if during that duty they break the law.

But that is a different distinction than you seem to be making, because if I understand your argument you don’t think any police officer should face this law if they use their officially issued weapon in a crime.

In addition, while I personally think it is wrong to use this particular law against police who use their gun during their official duties (even if they commit a crime in those duties), I don’t think it is a violation of what the law says to do so.

But that “I don’t think” is not based on how I believe the law should be used, but on the fact that the judge in the case, and the judges of the appeals court, both ruled that the law could be applied to this case.

And since those judges know a lot more about the law than I do, they probably are right. At least, it is clear that smart people with a clear knowledge of law in this country believe the law was correctly applied, so it can’t be the case that Sutton went well beyond reason in using the law.

Smart people who know what they are doing disagree with your position. It doesn’t mean your position is wrong, but it does mean you are wrong to suggest that the use of the law can’t be rationally justified.

I would also note that congress, which passed the law, expressed no majority opinion that the law was being applied incorrectly, nor did they take any action to clarify the law.

And it’s not like they didn’t have a chance — there were hearings about the case, and there were representatives pushing to take a vote on it. It seems clear that a majority of congress either agrees with this use of the law, or at least doesn’t care that the law is being used this way.

I also am not a fan of mandatory sentences. I know that we have a lot of bad judges, and we should focus on hiring competent people to be judges. But once we have put competent people in place, we should give them some discretion to handle cases individually when there are extenuating circumstances, subject to legal review.

There’s no way a bunch of politicians are going to write the perfect law, but mandatory sentences suggest the law and the punishment are exact and perfect and should not in any way be tampered with.


38 posted on 01/16/2009 5:40:12 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
There are multiple ways to attack the problem. One is to point out that the officers didn't voluntarily take guns to the scene of their crime(s) (if any). They were told to do so by higher authority extending all the way up to the President.

In Virginia being an accessory to a crime gets you the same time. I'm sure you could pursue the same course in bringing federal charges against, for example, "crime lords", "gang chieftains", and "the President" ~

Still, the cops here didn't take their guns to work that day with the intention of commiting a crime. Someone else directed them to take those guns to work that day for the purpose of self-protection as well as shooting uppity drug dealers and other criminals.

So far nothing happened regarding the "intention" issue in that case.

The only "crime" Sutton could pin them with was administrative in nature and had a penalty of less than a year. He was actually trying to prosecute them for not counting their bullets.

Obviously Sutton is a mad man, but we digress.

You cannot link "intent" to the use of the gun with respect to the subsequent "crime" of not counting shell casings.

Does not happen except in hillbilly courts where the city slicker comes in and rubs the judge's inner thing and whispers "You know I'm one of George's buddies, ya hear".

The fact the guys were police officers who were required to be armed is sufficient to blow the "ten years" part right out of court in any real court. So I have to agree with you on that.

Now, back to the 6 months max for not counting shell casings, I don't think that one's been enforced since WWI.

39 posted on 01/16/2009 10:18:10 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Just for the record, while I have no intention of discussing it, not discussing it doesn’t mean I accept your interpretation that Sutton was trying to prosecute them for not counting their shells.


40 posted on 01/16/2009 3:36:11 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Sutton was after high estate in the Republican establishment.

He screwed up.

Bush may love him but nobody else does.

41 posted on 01/16/2009 5:45:11 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Again, I have no information on that issue, but I would bet that if you actually went to where he lives, and asked around, that Sutton and his family are solid, his church is solid, his friends are solid, and that he is quite unaware that you and all of your friends hate him so much.


42 posted on 01/17/2009 3:25:28 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
He's actually quite aware of how much he's despised. He did a handful of talkradio deals and got his ass handed to him.

You don't see him or his friends here anymore but early on he had people who must have been on his staff trying to argue his case.

They didn't succeed because they were depending on the testimony of a dope dealer that he got shot by cops while transporting dope.

People here agitated to have the dope dealer picked up and prosecuted for a later crime ~ one which he committed while Sutton was using him as a witness against Campeon and Ramos.

Oh, yes, Sutton knows he's despised ~ he's also quite an evil little twit who knows he did wrong. Man's not fit to be a prosecutor and probably not fit to be a lawyer.

43 posted on 01/17/2009 5:08:13 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
People here agitated to have the dope dealer picked up and prosecuted for a later crime

Actually, most of the people here agitated for the dope dealer to be arrested and charged for the first drug-smuggling incident.

Unfortunately, the two agents who were supposed to catch him let him escape, and then couldn't identify him in a lineup or provide enough information to put the man at the scene. Of course, telling that they had shot the man would have made it much easier to identify him, but once they hid that information there was no way it could be used against the man in court later.

Eventually, Sutton was able to get Davila on a different charge, and now the guy is in jail where he belongs. And he never got a dime of money for any "lawsuit" that was threatened, just treatment for his injuries from the shooting that the agents didn't report.

Sutton had every right to be pissed at the agents. He learned about a shooting from the guy who was SHOT, rather than from the chain of command.

I can't imagine Sutton was trying to make a deal to do talk radio. I guess you mean he went on some of the anti-Sutton shoes to try to explain his position, and was unable to do so. If you think a man's life is defined by how he does on a talk show, then maybe you are correct.

44 posted on 01/19/2009 6:22:09 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Most of us simply wanted the dope dealer prosecuted on something ~ first, second, third, fourth offense? Didn't matter ~ just prosecute him.

His being shot was not a problem. Guy lives in Mexico. People in the dope business get shot there all the time.

It's a stretch to argue that the border agents hit him.

The only evidence that this particular narcotrafficante didn't have a gun is his own claim ~ and there's no reason anyone should ever believe a narcotrafficante about anything.

Sutton's case was off target (go after the narcotrafficantes, not the border agents), and ill-grounded.

That leads all rational people to ask why Sutton wanted to do this ~ certainly had nothing to do with the power and majesty of the law.

45 posted on 01/19/2009 8:18:11 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

My point about the shooting in this thread was that if they had reported the shooting, then finding the man with the agent’s bullet in him would have been strong physical evidence linking the man to the crime scene.

But since they didn’t report it, trying to use it at trial would be fruitless. Ramos would be on the witness stand testifying that they shot the guy, and the defense would tear him apart about the failure to report the shooting, and noting that Ramos could have shot the guy anywhere at any time, since there was no record of the shooting.

Remember, the only reason we know Davila was at the scene that day is because Davila testified that he was there. Neither Ramos nor Compean could identify him, they didn’t find any conclusive prints on the van, and they didn’t aprehend him there.

So there was no way we’d ever prosecute him for the drug smuggling — the bullet is the only physical evidence we had tying him to the scene, and that only works if you know he was shot at the scene.


46 posted on 01/19/2009 9:13:12 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Hmmm ~ that's stretching it. The case becomes very complex after Davila's mother called her friend.

If I'd been the boss here I'd sent both of these guys for remedial weapons training. There was no excuse for missing this puke.

47 posted on 01/19/2009 11:16:48 AM PST by muawiyah
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