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To: Man50D
The Fair Tax will itemize the tax rate as a separate entry on the receipt so people will know exactly how much they are taxed.

So was the sales tax on a $1500 item I just purchased. It added another $90. If I don't have the extra $90, it stays on the shelf. There would have been an extra $345 of "fair tax" applied if it were in place right now. I would have deferred and canceled the purchase had that been the case yesterday.

If the tax rate becomes too high with a consumption tax people will respond with less purchases. Less purchases will result in Congress collecting less tax. This forces Congress to keep the tax rate within reasonable if it wants to maximize the tax collection.

What are you smoking? The leftists in Congress don't really care what they are collecting. The use tax policy to punish the successful (progressive taxes) and buy votes from the bottom end of the income scale. They spend money without any care as to whether it runs a deficit. They can always print more.

The individual will earn his or her wages free and clear of any tax with The Fair Tax as they will not have to report it as income. That will in turn eliminate the embedded taxes imposed at each stage of production. That reason alone makes the Fair Tax profoundly different from any income tax.

I call BS again. In my income range ($143K) I'm paying about $38,000 FIT and maximum social security. That comes out of my gross. Only the employer's contribution to social security (7.65% of the nominal $100K cap) is an "embedded" cost that is outside of my gross. I pay the rest. Elimination of that cost isn't going to matter squat in the bottom line pricing of corporate services. Frankly, I think there will be an attempt to slash my gross compensation rather than put that $38,000 back into my paycheck. People in the minimum wage world pay nearly zero FIT. Giving a minimum wage earner that $110 of annual FIT back matters little.

A flat tax on income still mean people will not have the freedom to choose when and how often they are taxed. It will also maintain the increasingly oppressive IRS.

You really don't have a choice about the taxation either way. You have to work to earn income to eat. If your work is a service, it is taxed. No difference between that and the current income tax. It's just "itemized" for the consumer. That same money gets taxed again when it is used to purchase something, except this time it comes out of the "principal" under your control.

The current IRS might be "abolished", but it would be replaced by a bigger organization to collect taxes from every living thing...and mail monthly checks to everyone as well. It's just a different monster.

The purpose of concurrent passage of The Fair Tax Act and repeal of the 16th amendment is to put pressure on Congress. Your scenario would give Congress critters less reason to commit to passage of The Fair Tax and more reason to delay.

The repeal of the 16th amendment is an act that requires ratification by the states. Congress can not do it on their own. Why should the socialists feel any pressure to do something they don't want to do? They are geared up to tax everything in sight. They have majorities in both houses and will control the White House on Tuesday. It's all about the leftist agenda. What's good for the country has nothing to do with what is coming down the pike.

22 posted on 01/17/2009 10:53:41 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin

“You really don’t have a choice about the taxation either way. You have to work to earn income to eat. If your work is a service, it is taxed. No difference between that and the current income tax.”

If your point is that you have to pay taxes somewhere in the economic cycle under this proposal (or any proposal), and that that means there is no difference, then that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. However, from an economic perspective, there are enormous differences.

The main reason that I support the FairTax is that it is the most comprehensive and effective way of dealing with a broad range of adverse economic trends which are going on right now.
1. The spiral of complexity and higher compliance costs in our current tax system,
2. the trade deficit (and the resultant erosion of our manufacturing base),
3. the federal budget deficit (including the crisis in SS & Medicare)
4. the AMT
5. The rapidly rising costs of health care
6. The declining and now negative personal savings rate
7. etc, etc

What do these trends have in common?
A. They are unsustainable,
B. They are contributed to significantly by the current dysfunctional tax system,
C. Most Americans have no idea of the seriousness of these trends nor of their connection to tax policy.


23 posted on 01/17/2009 12:14:24 PM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: Myrddin
So was the sales tax on a $1500 item I just purchased. It added another $90. If I don't have the extra $90, it stays on the shelf. There would have been an extra $345 of "fair tax" applied if it were in place right now.

This is a common misconception. Nearly 23% of any item purchased today contains the cost of embedded corporate taxes businesses pass onto the consumer. The actual cost of that $1500 item is $1155 with $345(rounded up to 23%) in taxes. The Fair Tax is not tax inclusive as the income tax. The Fair Tax is tax is exclusive as it will remove the embedded 23% by eliminating corporate income taxes and apply the $345 as separate sales tax on the bill. Fair Tax FAQ #47 The total will still be close to $1500. You will still be able to see the rate and decide if you want to leave it on the shelf.

What are you smoking? The leftists in Congress don't really care what they are collecting. The use tax policy to punish the successful (progressive taxes) and buy votes from the bottom end of the income scale. They spend money without any care as to whether it runs a deficit. They can always print more.

They absolutely do care how much they collect! They want more than people can pay. The income tax provides the means. Another common misconception thanks to Congress critters who want you to think they have the power. The Fair Tax achieved 76 cosponsors as a direct result of constituents putting increased pressure on their politicians to support The Fair Tax or risk losing their jobs. They can't spend what they don't have in the Congressional coffer. If they raise the rate too high then people will buy less. Less purchases will mean less sales tax collected and therefore less to spend. People will essentially be able to keep spending in check. That is the concept Hamilton made with the quote in Federalist Paper #21 I cited in my previous post to you.

Only the employer's contribution to social security (7.65% of the nominal $100K cap) is an "embedded" cost that is outside of my gross.

The cost of a corporation's income tax and the associated costs of complying with tax regulations(accountants, tax specialists) are embedded. The 7.65% employer matching, the 7.65% payroll tax is in addition to the hidden tax. You pay for all of it either through what you purchase or directly from your paycheck.

I pay the rest. Elimination of that cost isn't going to matter squat in the bottom line pricing of corporate services.

Elimination of federal income taxes and associated compliance costs will, over time, trickle down to the consumer in the form of lower prices as firms will pass on at least some of the cost savings.

People in the minimum wage world pay nearly zero FIT.

You're still not grasping the concept everyone pays for corporate income taxes with every purchase!

You really don't have a choice about the taxation either way. You have to work to earn income to eat. If your work is a service, it is taxed. No difference between that and the current income tax. It's just "itemized" for the consumer. That same money gets taxed again when it is used to purchase something, except this time it comes out of the "principal" under your control.

The difference is the amount of total tax paid. Most people fall into a 15% income tax bracket. Also wage earners pay 7.65 percent in payroll taxes. That’s 23 percent right there. Also add in the 7.65 percent employer matching. That's 30%. Then factor in the business taxes and associated compliance costs (23%) passed on to consumers. The grand total exceeds 50%! Fair Tax FAQ #5 The total tax burden will be far less with The Fair Tax.

The repeal of the 16th amendment is an act that requires ratification by the states. Congress can not do it on their own. Why should the socialists feel any pressure to do something they don't want to do?

They will do so for the same reason 76 members of Congress signed in in the last session of Congress. Increasing pressure from a growing grassroots effort to support The Fair Tax.

They are geared up to tax everything in sight. They have majorities in both houses and will control the White House on Tuesday. It's all about the leftist agenda. What's good for the country has nothing to do with what is coming down the pike.

You can either stand by and do nothing while they steal more of your freedom or go at them with the same persistence they have done against the will of the people for decades. I'll choose the latter since the former is precisely why they have gained power.
25 posted on 01/17/2009 4:51:59 PM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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