Skip to comments.Microsoft Ordered to Delete Browser
Posted on 01/17/2009 3:46:50 AM PST by reaganaut1
BRUSSELS (AP) The European Union said Friday that Microsofts practice of selling the Internet Explorer browser together with its Windows operating system violated the unions antitrust rules.
It ordered the software giant to untie the browser from its operating system in the 27-nation union, enabling makers of rival browsers to compete fairly.
Microsofts tying of Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system harms competition between Web browsers, undermines product innovation and ultimately reduces consumer choice, the E.U. said in a statement.
It gave Microsoft eight weeks to respond, adding that the company could defend its position in a hearing if it found that useful.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
This is another ridiculous attempt at extracting more huge fines from M$. The market share of Internet Explorer is already dropping as is, so people are finding their choices. When the EC forced M$ to ship an OS to Europe without Windows Media Player, it was very unpopular with the people.
I have Windows and I still use Firefox. Firefox is free too, but youi need a browser to download it....
You said — “M$ ought to just tell the EU to live without Windows and Office from now on.”
That would be cool. They could start using the Apple office package and Mac OS X. That would be a boon to Apple...
You said — “Careful, youre not allowed to say anything negative about Apple or anything positive about Microsoft on this board.”
Hmmmm..., that sounds like a good rule..., I’ll take it...
Um, I clearly remember my TRS-80 CoCo communicating with a DEC-10, and other unlike machines. CompuServe, my college campus... This was before M$.
I can assure you standards did exist before M$. They had to to some extent. Now in the area of LAN, there was no clearly dominate topology and/or protocol for some time. And back before Ethernet and TCP/IP became dominate, one company made a lot of money by being able to accommodate and integrate all those differing networks; communicate, share files and print services from a heterogeneous mix of machines and networks: Novell.
You said — “Uninstalling IE on any windows OS since Win95 would render the GUI almost inoperable.”
From my point of view, that sounds like a good idea... LOL..
I dunno, I would call it a hell of a good marketing plan
Oh please, that's not an option for the masses. I teach basic computing (among other courses) and if people don't even know how to use a mouse correctly you think that they're capable of installing a browser? NOT!!! There are a lot of people who would never be able to access the web if their computers didn't come with a browser. Not everyone is a computer techie.
So, if I produce a keyboard driver, a sound driver, a font engine, or a graphics motif I can sue to get the EU to demand Microsoft remove those from its OS as well??
Here is the response I’d love to see from Microsoft to the EU:
Okay, we will stop selling all Microsoft products to the EU. NO IE. NO Windows. NO Office.
We’re outta here!
The Chronic stupidity of the Euro- this is exactly what caused the recession in 2001, when the AG accused MS of being a monopoly becuse Explorer was a part of the MS OS. Within weeks all venture capital to web commerce start-ups moved to safer investments like real estate and foreign markets.
Imagine what the EU would do if Microsoft simply stopped selling anything in the EU.
UUUOOOOOWWWW! I like that! Never seen that one before!
Netscape - the company - killed Netscape - the product.
How?!? I run XP, but I also have Opera, Chrome and Firefox, so I can choose which one I want.
Apple didn’t come up with the widget concept - others did.
Not true - Their has never been a time that what you stated was true.
It did? Really?
I never knew Word came bundled with the operating system. And to think I paid good money to purchase Word - because my secretary hated Wordperfect.
How would you like it if you couldn't buy a car and take it home with rims for your tires simply because other rim manufacturers thought it was unfair that GM provided them in the cost of the car? I would support if you wanted to regulate that you can buy a car without rims and be compensated for the savings, but I would not support that you should mandate that rims don't come on the car. I would also support GM charging you special handling fees for trying to move the car around on transporter rims...
Once again, if you do not want to use windows, don't. The EU has the same option.
MS didn't kill off Word Perfect... "Word Perfect for Windows" and Novell killed Word Perfect. Do you really remember Lotus 123? I remember having to install 3 different versions of Lotus on computers, just to allow spreadsheets with embedded macros to continue to work. Granted, Excel isn't much better, but MS really didn't kill Lotus, as much as IBM's purchase of the company hurt it. I know that it's fashionable to label Bill Gates as the Anti-Christ, and Microsoft as "The Great Satan," but try to get a grip. Yes, MS has (in the past, and often continues to do so today) used heavy handed (some will call them predatory) capitalistic tactics to wipe out competitors. And they, like any other company, don't like competition. But let's be realistic: The fall of these other companies wasn't completely Microsoft's doing.
People realized that they wanted integrated applications, where they didn't need to learn an entirely different user interface in order to start using a new application. And people wanted to be able to integrate information from different applications together, like being able to paste live data into their documents. That led to a number of integrated application packages from a lot of companies... For instance, Word Perfect had their package which included "Word Perfect," "Plan Perfect," "Data Perfect," and even "Word Perfect Office" which would eventually become "GroupWise," Novell's messaging system. Lotus had their own integrated system. And different word processors had their own niche markets. For instance, most serious scientific desktop publishers used Aldus Pagemaker on Sun workstations since they often needed a WYSIWYG interface, while those who didn't would often use WordStar. Word Perfect was at home in law offices, and there were a bunch of document management systems that grew up around it. And Microsoft Word (pre-windows) was a solid performer that had a pretty good reputation. Heck, even Informix had an integrated package, but for the life of me, I can't remember the name of it. We're talking back in the days of the Intel 80286 processor.
But Microsoft was the first to really push the idea of a fully integrated desktop user interface, that extended into the applications. There were others, like GEM, but they failed, and NOT because of Microsoft.
Microsoft stole Apples technology to develop Windows. Apple only responded in court too late and too little.
MS didn't "steal" technology from Apple (though they did from some other companies, like IBM and Stack Electronics), any more than Apple stole the technology of Xerox's SmallTalk environment from PARC. In both cases, they (Apple and Microsoft) "saw" a better user interface, and built upon it. You're referring to the "look & feel" law suits. But I'll tell you, while Windows "look & feel" was similar to that of Apple's OS, the original Mac and LISA OS looked identical to the Smalltalk interface used by Xerox at PARC. Not "similar," but identical. So by your standards, that would make Apple "more guilty" of "stealing" than Microsoft.
No question about it, Microsoft cheats
Take a chill pill, Dave.
Netscape had a weird business model. They wanted to make money from their server side, but it was competing against free products, like Apache and IIS.
"I'm going to abandon a market of 499,000,000 to teach them that they can't possibly live without me."
"Great idea, P.C. You have my enthusiastic support."
I agree. It's sort of like the FTC demanding that automakers not be allowed to install car stereos in new automobiles, because of unfair competition - But then it never seemed to hurt the business of Alpine, Blapunkt, Pioneer, Dennon, Kenwood, etc...
It's more about sour grapes AND the opportunity to throw their weight around against the 800 pound gorilla (Microsoft).
That's true. They can't "delete" it. You can open up "My Computer" to look at your files, and type an internet address at the top instead.
In an American anti-trust case about this a few years back, a judge ordered MS to delete IE even though MS explained to him what would happen. So they did it, and produced an inoperable computer. The judge got pissed. Lawyers.
And before someone comes along and tells of how Novell was killed off by Microsoft, as a former Novell Master CNE (since 1989) and Master CNI (instructor), I can say without a doubt that Novell killed off Novell's market share. Great technology, but their marketing deparment couldn't figure out how to sell space heaters to eskimos!
My favorite example was when Novell bought UNIX... They actually positioned it AS A COMPETITOR to Novell's NetWare servers!
There were plenty of home computers before Microsoft. My first commercially-built computer was a CP/M machine -- an O/S that ran on different hardware platforms. CP/M-86 lost out to DOS, though, and that's where Microsoft really got its boost.
Agreed on both points. My Kubuntu system installed with Konquerer already installed -- it's a filesystem explorer / it's a browser. (It may have had Firefox also, don't recall.) Are they going to make Kubuntu unbundle too?
That’s true. Those computers were okay if you wanted to learn to program a computer, or if you wanted to hire someone to do software for your specific business. Otherwise they were worthless to the home user.
My first computer was a TRS-80 Model I with 4K of RAM and no disc drive. It didn’t take me long to realize I didn’t want to be a computer programmer.
I worked for the company that made my CP/M machine and believe me, most of our sales were not to programmers or hobbyists.
The thing is: They actually did some good things for UNIX. Too bad they couldn't do anything with it. Now if Novell could have had MS' marketing, and MS could have had Novell's engineering...
I do like what they've been doing with Linux. SUSE is a great distro IMHO.
So it is a crime to tie a browser to an OS and to provide said browser for free....
Strange world we live in these days...
“You want a replacement for IE? Go to the Internet and download it in one minute, and another one minute to install it.”
As I stated earlier, assuming you can get to the internet without IE installed on a new computer...
Coming to a city near you at the end of the month.
Oh Yes it can; it is the EU.
Coming to a city near you at the end of the month.
“Microsoft used its operating system to promote Word which killed off Word Perfect”
Word Perfect was a great program.
Microsoft should start selling IE and bundling a free copy of Windows.
I’m using Chrome. Didn’t cost me a penny. EU goons are idiots.
Well indeed you can.
You can configure your TCP/IP settings with the DOS command "ipconfig".
Then you can fire up DOS "ftp" and download Firefox from the Mozilla ftp server:
Index of ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/
Once downloaded via DOS ftp, you install Firefox.
So unless the EU considers MS-DOS under Windows to be "anticompetetive" - or maybe that Windows itself is "a monopoly" - you can indeed make use of many browsers without resorting to IE in any way shape or form, ever.
You can also delete the IE icons from you Windows Deskstop and Start Menu (as I did long ago) and be done with it almost forever.
The EU is fighting an amazingly stupid battle that was decided by the American computer user (aka "the American computer buyer") more than a decade ago, back in the days when there were first several GUIs (VisiOn, etc) and later many browsers (Netscape, Mosaic, etc).
I disagree. "Home computers" at the time were for hobbyists, NOT what are today's "home users." They were for people who loved technology, wanted to program, business owners, or people who wanted to game. There were some serious parallels between the sort of person who bought a home computer and amateur radio operators.
I wonder if another company would have "stepped up" had Microsoft not come along. But I can say, with all certainty, that it was Microsoft that turned computers into what are for all intents and purposes, small home appliances, that you can pick up just about anywhere, and usable by "the masses."
Does this mean Apple will have to delete its browser?
OK, glad I could demonstrate some useless geekishness :)
Opps! Here is another try
That's the point. By MS making Explorer intertwined with the MSOS, they give Explorer a monopolistic competitive advantage among browsers. You can use Firefox or something, but you can't NOT use Explorer. So, most Mom and Pops won't bother with Firefox.
No, it's more like the car manufacturer making it so your car won't run if you remove the factory stereo, so anyone who wants that spiff Blaupunkt, that doesn't cause the electric doors to randomly unlock when you tune into some stations, has to mount it on the dashboard. Meanwhile, the POS factory stereo sits there and takes up space.
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