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Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain
The Telegraph ^ | 1/18/2008 | Jonathan Wynne-Jones

Posted on 01/17/2009 6:41:56 PM PST by bruinbirdman

The Radio 2 host said that he feels unable to talk about his faith on his show because he fears how people would react.

He argues that society has become increasingly intolerant of the freedom to express religious views.

"You can't express views that were common currency 30 or 40 years ago," he said.

"Arguably, the parameters of what you might call 'right thinking' are probably closing.

"Sadly, along with that has come the fact that it's almost socially unacceptable to say you believe in God."

His comments follow the claim from Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, the head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, that Britain is an "unfriendly" place for religious people to live.

Mr Vine, 43, is a practising Anglican, but says he would be compromised by being more open about his faith on air.

"Just blurting it out would be destructive," he said.

"Just because something's true doesn't mean you can say it. That's quite an important principle.

"Once I put my cards on the table about my faith in discussions, it becomes problematic."

In an interview with Reform, a magazine published by the United Reformed Church, Mr Vine says that he is forced to separate his personal beliefs from his role as a presenter.

"One of the things that I think, which may sound bizarre, is that Christ is who he said he was.

"I don't think I'd put that out on my show; I suppose there's a bit of a firewall between thinking that and doing the job I do."

Last year, Mark Thompson, the director-general of the BBC and a practising Roman Catholic, suggested that Islam should be treated more sensitively by the BBC than Christianity.

However, he also said that accusations that the corporation was anti-God were "not just too sweeping; they

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: christendom; deathofthewest; eurabia; europeanchristians; secularization; socialism

1 posted on 01/17/2009 6:41:56 PM PST by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman

And this is NEWS??????? I lived there for 8 years since ‘93......and Christians were hated THEN! They call them ‘happy clappy’ and were CONSTANTLY ridiculed in the media and public. Churches continue to fold. I had to keep my mouth shut.


2 posted on 01/17/2009 6:45:04 PM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

But...Islam take over in the UK unchallenged.


3 posted on 01/17/2009 6:47:15 PM PST by Dallas59 (Not My President)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

Only Britain?


4 posted on 01/17/2009 6:47:44 PM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: bruinbirdman

I hear someone was just fired from the Telegraph for putting two sentences in one paragraph.


5 posted on 01/17/2009 6:49:11 PM PST by firebrand
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

Comin’ here too. Under Bammy.


6 posted on 01/17/2009 6:49:29 PM PST by bergmeid (I refuse to be united. Obama can stuff it.)
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To: Dallas59

Yup. I can remember that Christmas decorations were challenged in downtown, Birmingham (UK)........but the ‘Festival of Lights’ was ‘hunky dory’.

I said to my husband that I knew what it was like to live in a ‘Godless society’. Even HE agreed.

Coming to a United States near you, folks.


7 posted on 01/17/2009 6:50:47 PM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear
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To: bruinbirdman

bttt


8 posted on 01/17/2009 6:52:41 PM PST by Mogwai (John McCain is Scott Farkus to Lindsey Graham's Grover Dill)
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To: Dallas59

Atheism is the way station on the journey to Islam. First, get people to become agnostic or athiest. Then, when they believe in nothing, convert them to Islam. Watch increasing numbers of dissatisfied young adults convert to Islam. Why? Because if they become Christians they will be ridiculed—if they become Islamic, no one will mess with ‘em.

It all part of the plan.


9 posted on 01/17/2009 6:54:18 PM PST by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: bruinbirdman

INTREP


10 posted on 01/17/2009 6:57:43 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: LiteKeeper

I was thinking this morning that the only hope for freedom in the world for the foreseeable future could be the splitting of the USA into those who would strictly follow the Constitution and honor our traditions and culture,

and those who would embrace socialism and allow an Islamic takeover.

If we don’t split off a healthy part of the body soon, we’re all going to be infected with this disease.


11 posted on 01/17/2009 7:03:28 PM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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To: Dallas59

Yup, the Brits will be talking a lot about God - er - Allah in the not too distant future.

Heh!


12 posted on 01/17/2009 7:05:28 PM PST by Da Coyote
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To: bruinbirdman

there’s no problem for moslems expressing their faith of terror.


13 posted on 01/17/2009 7:08:44 PM PST by ken21 (people die and you never hear from them again.)
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To: bruinbirdman

It’s getting that way here, and also (with some posters) it’s a problem with them, too (if someone is a Christian and states actions and values are *based* on that, and the Bible). Some FReepers will say to keep “religion out of politics” and that it’s the Christians who are causing the problems for the Republicans...


14 posted on 01/17/2009 7:15:13 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: rbg81

The Muslims do not do secularism. The UK is becoming more and more dhimini but at least their leaders are not Muslims yet like another country I know.


15 posted on 01/17/2009 7:16:11 PM PST by Frantzie
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To: bergmeid

You said — “Comin’ here too. Under Bammy.”

It’s already that way with some FReepers, with Christians posting their ideas, values and attitudes as coming from the Bible and Jesus Christ as their Savior. It’s already here on Free Republic...


16 posted on 01/17/2009 7:16:23 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: bruinbirdman
"Just because something's true doesn't mean you can say it. That's quite an important principle.

Because it is true you must say it. Thats a most important principle.

If you can't say what you say you know as truth, you really are a gutless sort, aren't you? In any case, I've found that if you'll just say it, boldly, without apology, it flummoxes a certain class of people and I find it rather enjoyable to flummox them.

17 posted on 01/17/2009 7:17:21 PM PST by marron
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To: bruinbirdman
He argues that society has become increasingly intolerant of the freedom to express religious views.

Certain religious views, that is, right?

It's not like we haven't seen this happen before.

You know, if we let it happen here, we only have ourselves to blame.

18 posted on 01/17/2009 7:17:48 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (revolution is in the air.)
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To: marron
If you can't say what you say you know as truth, you really are a gutless sort, aren't you? In any case, I've found that if you'll just say it, boldly, without apology, it flummoxes a certain class of people and I find it rather enjoyable to flummox them.

Indeed. Flummox on, then!

19 posted on 01/17/2009 7:18:58 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (revolution is in the air.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

You said — “You know, if we let it happen here, we only have ourselves to blame.”

Ummm..., try expressing the Christian Biblical account of creation in 6 days (of an evening followed by a morning) and see how many evolutionists come out against you on Free Republic... LOL...


20 posted on 01/17/2009 7:20:36 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
By "here" I meant in the real world, specifically the United States.

And personally I'm not getting into arguments with anyone about how long it took to make the universe or anything else. But I will defend the dignity of the human person at all stages, all day long.

21 posted on 01/17/2009 7:25:13 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (revolution is in the air.)
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To: MrB
"I was thinking this morning that the only hope for freedom in the world for the foreseeable future could be the splitting of the USA "

There is precedent, no? Not only USA but nations.

How did they work out?

yitbos

22 posted on 01/17/2009 7:27:19 PM PST by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds.")
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To: bruinbirdman
Is this what Christianity has come to??? Afraid to speak the Gospel because we're afraid of how people will react??? Afraid they'll complain and we'll lose our jobs, friends? Christ must be so ashamed of some of us! I'm glad the Christian martyrs of Jesus' time were not as pitiful as we, who have never known the torments they endured, or the Christian faith would have never have made it past the first century!
23 posted on 01/17/2009 7:30:08 PM PST by My hearts in London - Everett (Remember the 3 Rs: Respect for self; Respect for others; and Responsibility for all your actions.)
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To: bruinbirdman
I was surprised (somewhat) to read comments from British readers on one of the UK newspaper websites during the election that said -- essentially -- that Sarah Palin should be disqualified from political office because she's a Christian and actually believes in it.

Who do the Brits think built their country? Taoists?

24 posted on 01/17/2009 7:31:53 PM PST by Campion
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To: bruinbirdman

I assume this is Jeremy Vine? I listen to BBC Radio 2 all the time and am glad to hear that someone at the BBC is a normal person.


25 posted on 01/17/2009 7:37:28 PM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: Star Traveler
I agree! Six days it is! OTOH, here we are, a small planet in orbit around a mediocre sun in a so-so galaxy at the edge of the universe. I just have a hard time getting my mind around what a ‘day’ means from the viewpoint of an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, eternal God. One day I will understand it all; today I see through a glass darkly.
26 posted on 01/17/2009 7:39:02 PM PST by ArmyTeach (You have a Republic, Madam, if you can keep it...)
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To: bruinbirdman

Well yes, it is problematic if you are a Christian. Who is to blame for this hatred of Christianity. The answer is simple. CHRISTIANS. The most vilified and detested Christians in America are fundamentalists and evangelicals.

I am evangelical. I go to church on Sunday and here sermon after semon about how we need to get out of our “comfort zones” and become more active. What the pastor means is active in the church.

Attend Bible study if you do not presently attend. We need people to clean up around the church and we need to make more Christians. (I have pointed out that we do not make Christians. We invite people to service. We try to live lives that do not damage others and are worth emulating, etc.). The Holy Spirit makes Christians.

The pastor is talking about growing the church. At the same time he is adamant about not getting involved in politics. We are all involved in politics whether we like it or not. Apparently it has never occured to anyone that it was politics when Jesus threwthe moneychangers from the Temple. He was crucified for being a political threat. Following the “no politics” advice has resulted in us being the only group of people in America or the world who can be openly insulted and vilified publically with impunity.

Blacks, homosexuals, women, whatever. Insult them and you bring down the fire. Christians? Spit on them. The only problem there is trying to express more contempt for them than anyone else. What is the Christian response? What do the pastors say? Let us not jeopordize the holy 501C(3). Lets fill those seats and fill those collection plates.

We all know that early Christians were persecuted don’t we? Perhaps we need to see how well we stand up to persecution, so lets just take what they give us. And oh yes. Let’s not snivel about it. After all, if we wanted to stop this we could. But we won’t.


27 posted on 01/17/2009 7:41:56 PM PST by SkipW
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To: MrB
I was thinking this morning

Where have you been? See my tagline....

28 posted on 01/17/2009 7:42:31 PM PST by central_va (Co. C, 15th Va., Patrick Henry Rifles-The boys of Hanover Co.)
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To: SkipW

Preach it, brother! ;~) I agree with you 100%. Welcome to FR, by the way!


29 posted on 01/17/2009 7:45:59 PM PST by My hearts in London - Everett (Remember the 3 Rs: Respect for self; Respect for others; and Responsibility for all your actions.)
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To: bruinbirdman

“Coming soon to a country near you!”

Just a sign of the times... everything here seems to start in California and work its way out from there. Try being an outspoken Christian in Hollywierd. And when there is a void of Christianity other religions and crack-pot beliefs will fill the gap. Other not-so-friendly religions.

(Save the Crusades comment crap... I ain’t playin’ that)


30 posted on 01/17/2009 7:56:05 PM PST by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Me... I'm ignorant but I do know this; God is our only hope!)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

I pray that you are wrong!


31 posted on 01/17/2009 8:00:00 PM PST by mckenzie7 ( ANNA THE RETIREE)
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To: bruinbirdman

To be an “aggressive Christian” in the New York/New Jersey area has been seen as being “nuts” since I was a young kid (I was born in 1976 to give you perspective). The only folks I see going out praising Jesus in public seem to be elderly black women and some largely Hispanic evangelical groups.


32 posted on 01/17/2009 8:00:50 PM PST by Clemenza (Red is the Color of Virility, Blue is the Color of Impotence)
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To: Star Traveler

There are quite a few out there who are quick to denounce anything other than evolutionary theory.

But I see this as a question of freedom of speech and thought.

Let all the ideas be presented in the classroom, the media etc.

In the UK the increasingly closed and totalitarian society is no joke.

The media portray Christianity as “nutter” and “respect” Islam.

But it goes way beyond that with all kinds of control from telling people to save food to the Sexual Orientation Regulations.

A retirement community in Brighton is being denied taxpayers money because the people who live there won’t answer questions about their “sexual orientation.”

Talk about “government in the bedroom.”

I’ve heard Terry Wogan on the BBC Radio 2 morning show noting the “nanny state” in passing.

Maybe he and Jeremy Vine should just go on the air someday and say the United Kingdon is becoming a “Nazi State” and get it over with.

Let the BBC fire them both for telling the truth.


33 posted on 01/17/2009 8:21:20 PM PST by Nextrush (Sarah Palin is the new Ronald Reagan.)
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To: bruinbirdman

I know this is true in the UK, but in the US in recent years I’ve found it more comfortable to freely mention God. When I was growing up, one never, ever mentioned such things; it just wasn’t cool, and it embarrassed people. But now I seem to discover fellow Christians everywhere and they openly speak of faith.

I live near Washington DC and work for a company that does science.


34 posted on 01/17/2009 8:29:37 PM PST by ottbmare
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To: Nextrush

You said — “There are quite a few out there who are quick to denounce anything other than evolutionary theory.”

Yeah boy! They come crawling out of the woodwork (or is that the electrons)... :-)


35 posted on 01/17/2009 8:29:37 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: bruinbirdman

Atheism is certainly not a good idea for a national putsch from any group. It’s the wrong and impractical direction and is already starting to backfire—even on the Atheists.


36 posted on 01/17/2009 8:31:42 PM PST by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: Saoirise
Goodbye Brittania.
37 posted on 01/17/2009 9:12:18 PM PST by 444Flyer (Don't beLIEve Obama.)
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To: bruinbirdman
Take a look at British TV programs. Clergy are almost always portrayed as naive, bumbling, buffoons, hopelessly out of touch with the world. That is, when they're not portrayed as creepy weirdos.

About 20 years ago, the predominant attitude to the Christian religion in Britain was apathy. That is now gradually but surely morphing into antipathy.

38 posted on 01/17/2009 9:30:00 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future"- Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

I know what you mean, I’ve lived over there and still visit and I get a ear full if anyone sees me wearing a cross.


39 posted on 01/18/2009 10:02:49 AM PST by dragonblustar (Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God - G. K. Chesterton)
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
His comments follow the claim from Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, the head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, that Britain is an "unfriendly" place for religious people to live.

Catholic Ping List
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


40 posted on 01/18/2009 11:18:26 AM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: SkipW
The most vilified and detested Christians in America are fundamentalists and evangelicals.

You can add orthodox Catholics to that list, even within the ranks of our own faith. The concept of divide and conquer comes to mind when it comes to the various factions of Catholicism and the weakening of the moral voice. There are people out there who claim the affiliation for whatever reason then do not follow the tenets of the faith. We who do are considered to be "not with it" and "out of step." And to claim to really love and admire the current pope - well, that's a sure way to marginalize yourself. Seriously.

We're all under attack.

41 posted on 01/18/2009 11:40:06 AM PST by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue (I choose virtue. Values change too often).)
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To: My hearts in London - Everett

Thanks for the welcome. I’m sorry it took me so long to find Free Republic. This is a very interesting site.It is good to hear what other conservatives have to say.

I suspect that we are in for some rough sledding. I pray that the country survives Democratic control of the government.


42 posted on 01/18/2009 11:51:13 AM PST by SkipW
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To: Desdemona

I was Catholic for four years a long time ago. I followed my parents from Baptist to Episcopalian to Catholic. My first wife and I received instruction so that we could be married in the church. Those were a happy four years.

Then some things happened that caused me to leave the church. All churches.

Then in 2000 I retired and moved from the east coast to a Rocky Mountain state. After several invitations I attended service at a CMA church. The sermon that day was on “New Beginnings.” I have been a member of that church since then.

I have noticed bigotry against Catholics and Mormons among some of the evangelicals who attend my church. They have all learned not to express that garbage in my presence.

Many Christian churches are being infected with people who seek a more “inclusive” posture from the church. As far as I am concerned that is the beginning of the end for them.

Rick Warren just applauded Barack Obama for inviting a homosexual bishop to speak at a gathering after the inauguration. This bishop has said that he will not use the Bible during his prayer and will not be too Christian in his remarks.

I think that Rick Warren has become part of the problem. He wants to get along with everybody.


43 posted on 01/18/2009 12:08:58 PM PST by SkipW
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To: NYer
His comments follow the claim from Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, the head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, that Britain is an "unfriendly" place for religious people to live.

Your Eminence, with the greatest respect, if you had spent less time trying to be "ecumenical" and make the Church "modern" and "up to date" while harassing and slandering orthodox Catholics, the Church would probably be in better shape than it is in Britain.

He's been feeding the tiger of British secularism in the hopes it would eat him last, but just looked over his shoulder and saw the giant crocodile of radical Islam.

44 posted on 01/18/2009 12:10:16 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary - recess appointment))
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To: SkipW

I seek no argument on how people practice their faith, only to comment that evangelicals are not alone in being persecuted and in other avenues of Christianity, even within the faith, a division has evolved. I cannot comment on Mormonism, but we Catholics who just kneel after Mass to give thanks are considered weird. It’s food for thought.


45 posted on 01/18/2009 12:16:46 PM PST by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue (I choose virtue. Values change too often).)
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To: My hearts in London - Everett

“Afraid to speak the Gospel because we’re afraid of how people will react??? Afraid they’ll complain and we’ll lose our jobs, friends? Christ must be so ashamed of some of us!”
_____________________________________
I’ve been thinking about that; my thinking has lead me to conclude, in part, that it’s a lack of faith and a lack of discipline.........maybe?


46 posted on 01/19/2009 4:58:41 AM PST by glide625
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To: Campion
Who do the Brits think built their country? Taoists?

Why, the Catholic Church built their country and the Anglican Church destroyed it, as this article demonstrates.

47 posted on 01/19/2009 1:56:15 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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