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Obama Giving Up In Iraq; To Make It Official Tomorrow; All Brigates Out In 16 Months.
FOX News | Major Garret

Posted on 01/21/2009 4:19:35 PM PST by MindBender26

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To: MindBender26

I thought during the campaign he said he would first get recommendations from the officers in Iraq before he made this decision.

Can anyone find that quote?


151 posted on 01/21/2009 8:03:03 PM PST by savedbygrace (You are only leading if someone follows. Otherwise, you just wandered off... [Smokin' Joe])
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To: LanaTurnerOverdrive

You could at least PRETEND to not be a TOOL!!


152 posted on 01/21/2009 8:04:10 PM PST by HotLead61
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To: FateAmenableToChange
If you're asking what God is doing, you have to admit the possibility that ...

Or alternatively, that a big chunk of the voting age population of our country consists of totally f*n clueless morons.

/.02

153 posted on 01/21/2009 8:12:18 PM PST by tomkat
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To: Murp
What we MUST communicate to our brave servicemen is that they MUST stay the course. For our warriors to get out of the military would be the END of our Republic. Obama wants nothing more than to PACK the military with his political zombies. Patriotism equals staying the course. Our military is the only thing that stands between freedom and tyranny. God bless our nation and God bless our military.

That may be true for junior officers and most enlisted and warrants, but for senior officers they need to "fall on their swords". Inside they can't speak out, outside they can, and should. The failure to do something like this over Johnson's handling botching of the Vietnam war, was a major contributor to how that came out. Obama won't be listening to them anyway. The others should transfer to the guard or reserve. That way they too can speak out, at least somewhat, and they remain available "at need".

154 posted on 01/21/2009 9:38:16 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: JennysCool
Cool down, y’all. This is pretty much what the Bush Administration had planned, anyway.

But the timeline is accelerated quite a bit. And timing is very important in these affairs. Too soon, and you lose all you've gained as the good guys are not yet ready to hold out against the bad guy. Too late, and the good guys get too dependent on the "foreign" troops to do the heavy lifting. Although slightly too late is better than too early.

155 posted on 01/21/2009 9:42:49 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: BossLady
we are going to have to find jobs for all the military we bring home.... Am I missing something....someone help me out here.

The mobilized reserves, maybe. Although their jobs are supposed to have been preserved, but that might be problematic in the current economy. The company might not exist anymore.

But unless one is going the cut the numbers of troops, you just reposition them on stateside posts, which is where they came from in the first place.

However I fully expect The One to cut those numbers, in the face the "economic crisis", despite his initial promises to *raise* the numbers in the Army and Marines (at the expense of numbers in the Navy and Air Force) The money to pay them will be needed for "bailing out" Bami's friends and paying for the Obama Youth Corps. So he'll cut the Navy and Air Force as promised, but will not expand, and will probably cut, the numbers in the Marines and Army as well.

We are already sending B-52s to the boneyard, the latest models, which is all we have left anyway. The F-117s have been sent there as well. They are supposed to be replaced with F/A-35s and F/A-22s, but those numbers will also likely be cut. The -35 might be canceled outright.

BO has also promised to cut Future Combat Systems, and other new developments. So there will also be lots of engineers, software developers and skilled tradesmen laid off and looking for work. I might very well be one of them, as I was under The 'Toon'.

156 posted on 01/21/2009 9:53:26 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: piytar
Thousands of support troops will remain to look after our interests.”

They will be pulled out the first time a bunch of them are attacked and many killed. They will no longer have the combat troops pushing the bad guys into the boonies, and to adopt a "low profile".

Even Reagan pulled out the troops after a couple of suicide bombers hit their barracks. You expect Obama to have a stiffer spine?

157 posted on 01/21/2009 9:59:08 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: HotLead61
"If I were one of them, I’d walk off the job. Why advise him if he’s not gonna listen?"


God forbid the military 'walk off the job'. The reason they won't is because they are committed to the country, not a man. Our country is much larger than a man, and represents so much more. Those higher ideals are what the military is defending, and will continue to defend.

158 posted on 01/22/2009 1:38:39 AM PST by KitJ (Shall Not Be Infringed)
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To: Prole

Thank you for that photo/reminder. Ever since Obama has been campaining (two years ago!) this has been the obvious ending place for the Iraq war (and the Iraqis) if Obama got elected.

Just like in Vietnam, we won the war, gave support to the government troops for awhile, then left - but with the agreement of continued material support. Then the liberals broke that off. Leaving their allies at the mercy of the enemy.


159 posted on 01/22/2009 1:47:53 AM PST by 21twelve
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To: HotLead61; Repeal The 17th; LanaTurnerOverdrive
re: Benefitting from Affirmative Action

An interesting point of order.

In reality, very few Americans benefited from Affirmative Action. The huge failures of the program hurt Blacks and Whites alike!

As former ABCer Bob Zellnick points out in his book on the subject, of course, it was a huge problem for Whites. It was racism, but this time, politically-correct racism that denied them higher educations, jobs, and contracts so the positions could be given to Blacks

But this idiotic program hurt Blacks as well,

The plan had the effect of pushing Blacks into competitive universities and jobs where they could not compete. A typical AA-aided Black student would be admitted to a highly regarded school such as Yale, Cal Tech, Harvard and others. Once there, the failure cycle started immediately. He would be on academic probation after one semester, removed then reinstated under a special tutoring program for minorities after the second semester, then finally, permanently out after his 3d semester after all the special tutoring failed to produce the impossible result of having him compete where he was not qualified to.

The tragedy was, if it hadn't been for AA, this student could have entered a second tier school such as SUNY, North Carolina, Florida, fine schools all, and exceeded. He could have gotten his degree and moved on.

But time and again, these otherwise qualified students did not return to second tier schools after being academically removed from Harvard and the like. The stigma of failure permeated their lives. They ended up flipping hamburgers in their home towns, another failure thanks to Affirmative Action.

160 posted on 01/22/2009 1:48:18 AM PST by MindBender26 (ATTN: Rev. Lowery: Sorry 'bout that, but I am White, and I got it Right years ago!)
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To: piytar

With all respect, I suggest you study history, not Obama’s speeches.


161 posted on 01/22/2009 1:49:55 AM PST by MindBender26 (ATTN: Rev. Lowery: Sorry 'bout that, but I am White, and I got it Right years ago!)
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To: El Gato

You are right. See 161


162 posted on 01/22/2009 1:51:03 AM PST by MindBender26 (ATTN: Rev. Lowery: Sorry 'bout that, but I am White, and I got it Right years ago!)
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To: LanaTurnerOverdrive

Affirmative action...
He is there for no other reason than because he is black.


163 posted on 01/22/2009 2:55:18 AM PST by Repeal The 17th
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To: MindBender26

So just announce to the world exactly when we’ll be gone, so the terrorists & Iran will just wait. Insanity.


164 posted on 01/22/2009 3:30:02 AM PST by visualops (portraits.artlife.us or visit my freeper page)
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To: Retain Mike

Thanks for the info. I am sure Zero is trying to take credit for it all as well, but with his signal that his timeline will be shorter than the Official Status Agreement, he is also sending AQ a clear message. My question is how can Obama just ignore an agreement between Iraq already made by President Bush? Isn’t this like a treaty which can not be undone by subsequent Presidents?


165 posted on 01/22/2009 5:10:04 AM PST by penelopesire ("The only CHANGE you will get with the Democrats is the CHANGE left in your pocket")
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To: tomkat
Or alternatively, that a big chunk of the voting age population of our country consists of totally f*n clueless morons.

Yeah, I'm good with that one too.

166 posted on 01/22/2009 5:20:46 AM PST by FateAmenableToChange
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To: MindBender26
The tragedy was, if it hadn't been for AA, this student could have entered a second tier school such as SUNY, North Carolina, Florida, fine schools all, and exceeded. He could have gotten his degree and moved on. But time and again, these otherwise qualified students did not return to second tier schools after being academically removed from Harvard and the like. The stigma of failure permeated their lives. They ended up flipping hamburgers in their home towns, another failure thanks to Affirmative Action.

Spot on. And when I used this example in presentations promoting Michigan's anti affirmative action amendment, the usual suspects nearly burst a blood vessel. BUT the important thing is that the exact same phenomenon shows up regardless of who is being promoted. Even sports scholarships can produce this phenomenon when an athlete that should go to a 2 year community college or vocational school is bumped into a college level program for which he is drastically unprepared.

167 posted on 01/22/2009 5:24:15 AM PST by FateAmenableToChange
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To: MindBender26

The marxist messiah did campaign on surrender to the mohammedans, at least we know he’s a treacherous cowering dog of his word.


168 posted on 01/22/2009 5:26:02 AM PST by Dr.Zoidberg
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To: FateAmenableToChange
I wish I could claim credit for the research and reasoning for that, but the credit goes to Bob Zelnick and his book, “Backfire: A Reporter's Look at Affirmative Action.” It, and his work on Algore are brilliant.

Secondly, I am not a greatly religious man, but this speaks to me about Associate Justices Scalia and Thomas’ beliefs about “Natural Law.”

Nature ordains a certain way of doing things. The students capeable of the best performance go to the best schools, people will obey a 30 MPH speed limit in a residential neighborhood, slavery is bad, etc.

The moment you try to manipulate that natural law concept with AA, a 20 mile an hour speed limit on a rural road, one man enslaving another under a color of law, you get into trouble every time.

It's not that we are Conservative so much as we are in favor of doing things the proven, smart way.

Be well

169 posted on 01/22/2009 6:19:51 AM PST by MindBender26 (ATTN: Rev. Lowery: Sorry 'bout that, but I am White, and I got it Right years ago!)
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To: MindBender26
I wish I could claim credit for the research and reasoning for that, but the credit goes to Bob Zelnick and his book, “Backfire: A Reporter's Look at Affirmative Action.” It, and his work on Algore are brilliant.

I like Zelnick, but the actual source he's relying on is Richard Sander: (Sander's web page)

170 posted on 01/22/2009 7:31:09 AM PST by FateAmenableToChange
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To: MindBender26

171 posted on 01/22/2009 7:42:56 AM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: penelopesire

The agreement says 2011 and his order is supposed to say only combat brigades. Units like advisors, special forces, and air units are not combat brigades. Obama may be so dishonest as to exclude U.S. Marines, who deploy as battalions and not as brigades. I don’t know the order of battle for divisions now, but in WW II a battalion was 1/6 the size of a brigade. He may be following the letter of the agreement, but in a way which affirms his popular political illusion, and depreciates those who sacrificed for victory.


172 posted on 01/22/2009 10:03:05 AM PST by Retain Mike
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To: All
It is wonderful that black children see a man who looks similar in the highest office in the land. The thought makes me smile inside. And I am glad for all blacks who thought this might never happen.

But I am SICK that a man was elected who is totally TOTALLY unqualified simply because he IS black (well, half if ya want to get specific)and the press and easily fooled PC crowd in Hollywood (the intellectually deprived) and elite liberals who FEEL every ones' pain as long as that person is poor or a democrat, just went bonkers....OVER the skin shade; and they ignored the quality of his ethics, morals, associations,experience and judgment.

They failed to save America from a man who could hurt us forever.

173 posted on 01/22/2009 3:44:31 PM PST by Republic (B. Hussein Obama looks a LOT MORE LIKE A CHIMP than President Bush!)
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To: max americana
It’s Hussein who wants the glory.

Except he may lose the peace.

174 posted on 01/22/2009 3:52:23 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: bronxboy
We are dealing with things in Afghanistan and Pakistan. And pulling the majority of troops out prematurely will have it's consequences. The SOFA agreement was agreed upon to give the Iraqi enough time to reach certain points that made sense to the military on both sides.
One thing not being discussed enough is the fact we shall see no large number of combat troops in Afghanistan. The logistics are as tough as they are. It is a totally different type of SASO then Iraq was in many ways. We have no reliable close routes such as we had with Kuwait just to name one to truck in the huge amount of daily supplies of all types.
We are going to have to depend on the Russians to allow us to ship by trains most everything that enters Afghanistan in the near future, if Pakistan cannot guarantee a safe means for the existing suppply routes.
The Afghanistan SASO according to Petreous as well as a number of other high ranking generals over the past few years also differs quite a bit as how one can operate in high elevated terrain. So don't expect some type of surge with huge numbers of combat troops along with all the required support units to simply move into Afghanistan.
And interestingly there where already plans on the table to send some thirty thousand combat harden Marines into A in the spring.
As for the Iraqi shouldering some responsibility. What do you think they have been doing for the past few years. They continue to build upon their successes. But they need huge amounts of logistics and effective Intel to yet be put into place, not to mention their slowly budding air force.
Keep the original agreed upon SOFA with them would have enabled them to come along much further, with less risk of Iran playing some nasty games before the Iraqi where able to protect themselves adequately. Imagine. They don't have one jet or prop yet in place to go against Iranian aircraft.
The SOFA included many things to be established before we pulled out. Now this Zero is going to screw things up. I wonder how long Gates will stay in place, and for that matter if Mullins, Petreous and others may decide to call it a day.
I see the same crap that happened during the Clinton years coming to past again.
175 posted on 01/22/2009 5:42:35 PM PST by Marine_Uncle
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To: Retain Mike

Thanks RM. Zero is going to royally screw the whole works up that is for sure. And he surely has not a clue as how military must plan counter insurgency campaigns and it appears does not heed the warnings of those that know how to proceed in Afghanistan, nor how to maintain the many meet goals in Iraq.


176 posted on 01/22/2009 6:03:26 PM PST by Marine_Uncle
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To: All

Note: The following text is a quote:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=52779

Iraq Drawdown Options Discussed at White House Meeting

By Gerry J. Gilmore
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Jan. 22, 2009 – Among the military options being considered by President Barack Obama involves a plan to remove most U.S. troops from Iraq within 16 months, the Defense Department’s top civilian and military officials said here today.

The 16-month timeframe was among some possible Iraq drawdown plans discussed at yesterday’s White House meeting between Obama and members of his National Security Council staff, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates told Pentagon reporters.

“I would say that yesterday’s meeting was the beginning of a process of evaluating various options,” Gates said.

Since Obama’s election to the presidency last fall, Gates said, senior U.S. military planners have been “looking at several options” regarding planning for a drawdown of U.S. troops from Iraq. About 140,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq today.

“And, obviously, 16 months is one of them,” Gates told reporters. He emphasized that Obama “wants a responsible drawdown,” regardless of the option chosen.

“We’ve certainly heard ’16 months’ for a long time; we’ve looked at that option and the risks that are associated with that,” said Navy Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who attended the White House meeting with Gates and accompanied the secretary at today’s Pentagon news conference.

Gates and Mullen said the Joint Chiefs would be consulted during the evaluation of options for U.S. troop drawdowns from Iraq.

“And, when the time comes to have that full engagement with the president with respect to that … I will advise him accordingly, and he’ll make a decision,” Mullen said.


177 posted on 01/22/2009 6:56:10 PM PST by Cindy
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To: KitJ

My reference was specifically limited to his ADVISORS, not to the rank & file.

God bless & protect our military!


178 posted on 01/22/2009 8:34:47 PM PST by HotLead61
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To: MindBender26

Good points about AA, MB26. I hadn’t realized that...


179 posted on 01/22/2009 8:40:02 PM PST by HotLead61
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To: Marine_Uncle

Your note reminds me I update the following letter when ever I see our “hopeless” situation in Afghanistan hit the news cyle.

Afghanistan is at risk, because people like General Petraeus and his philosophy are scarce commodities. NATO, Pentagon and intelligence bureaucrats, many masquerading in military uniforms, have consistently ignored and depreciated counterinsurgency warfare. Successful career development worldwide requires resumes applying advanced technologies for conventional warfare in Europe and on blue water seas to third world small wars. Counterinsurgency warfare receives scant attention for being low tech, labor intensive and unspectacular.

When General Petraeus commanded the 101st Airborne in Iraq in April 2003 he said, “Now the hard part begins”. However, he had only two stars and did not co-author Army’s counterinsurgency field manual until 2006. The Marine Corps, not Army, has unpopular distinction for embracing the culture of counterinsurgency warfare. As Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine General Peter Pace had the watch for internal political battles allowing General Petraeus prominence. Seldom would such a gifted, experienced soldier obtain significance needed within ossified intelligence and defense bureaucracies to implement proven counterinsurgency tactics.

Application of counterinsurgency tactics would increase momentum among local religious, tribal and political leaders to reject the Taliban and accept national government. The objective would be to help them make pragmatic, consistent decisions recognizing utility of and alignment with Kabul. Afghan and NATO combined units would clear Taliban from marginal regions, remain militarily present, and allow reconstruction teams entry. Locals would assume authority as behavior confirmed commitment to national goals. In rebellious regions attacks would disrupt Taliban units planning offensives, until regular presence expanded from adjacent pacific areas.


180 posted on 01/23/2009 9:41:00 AM PST by Retain Mike
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To: Retain Mike

Good writing indeed. And your last paragraph is basically what I see happening in A currently, at least in the NE and central provinces, and perhaps more throughout the whole country, to some degree. The press seem to love to print the garbage about increased Taliban activities while not disclosing the reasons, such as they are getting their asses grassed as their hideouts are uncovered.


181 posted on 01/23/2009 11:19:21 AM PST by Marine_Uncle
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To: Roccus

yes............


182 posted on 01/23/2009 3:42:26 PM PST by ldish (God save the USA)
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To: Marine_Uncle

I checked this out a bit...this plan is not much different from the one Pres. Bush negotiated with Iraq when our agreement was about to expire. I think Obama will get the credit for using Bush’s plan-not fair.


183 posted on 01/23/2009 9:13:33 PM PST by bronxboy
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To: bronxboy

That’s his game plan. And the press will adore him for being so astute.


184 posted on 01/24/2009 12:31:18 AM PST by Marine_Uncle
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