Posted on 01/22/2009 5:55:58 PM PST by CedarDave
Taking pictures on most pueblos has been prohibited for decades. And that has prompted Rail Runner officials to ask its riders turn off their cameras on pueblo land.
The train conductor lets riders know to put their cameras away on Santo Domingo and San Felipe land. Rail Runner officials say the pueblos made that request.
The Isleta and Sandia pueblos have not asked the conductor to have riders put away their cameras.
"I think it goes back years and years ago when a lot of folks from other parts of the country would come in and take photos of the pueblos and then the photos would be published in national publications all over the country and I think they felt violated," said Lawrence Rael of the Rail Runner.
Rail Runner officials say if someone is caught breaking the rule, they will get another reminder by the conductor of the pueblo's request. But officials say they have not had any problems with anyone taking pictures on the pueblo land.
(Excerpt) Read more at kob.com ...
Another says they would respect the pueblo wishes "as long as it's clearly marked where it starts and stops."
My bottom line is that the RR is a public right of way and taking photographs is a free speech issue. This battle is being fought in other cities by citizens having cameras seized by transit police for photographing trains from the public platform. The most egregious situation occurred at Union Station in Washington DC when a TV station was interviewing an Amtrak official about reports of tourists being told not to take photos of the interior of the restored station. During the interview a rent-a-cop came up and instructed the news crew to turn off the camera!
These groups do not pay federal taxes, get paid to have the RR there and yet ‘no pictures’, huh!
They feel violated because they were not able to cash in on the pictures.
I agree can we not take a picture of the NM sunset because we are on the train or standing by a building?
Hogwash.
........These groups do not pay federal taxes,......
Reference please. I don’t think you are correct.
My mother grew up near the Isleta Pueblo. I don’t remember ever not being able to take pictures there. I guess times have changed.
Lets see - I don’t believe we can keep someone from photographing our homes from the street. We can legally keep them off our property - but that is it. Even if that photo gets published - too bad, so sad. Google hires drivers to drive around with cameras mounted to their vehicles to photograph places, roads, and intersections. Those are used on their web site for maps - and they sell advertising - so where is my cut of that pie?
Because you cannot legally prevent someone from taking photos of publicly visible structures from a public right of way.
Neville the Aborigine: “No, you can’t take my photograph.”
Crocodile Dundee’s girlfriend: “Oh, I’m sorry, you believe it’ll take your spirit away.”
Neville the Aborigine: “No, you got a lens cap on it!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGm3L7TF1Bk
Where can I find a map of this new rairoad line?
Regarding lifestyle, let’s not go there. There are over 300 comments at the link and 50% of them are racist or disparaging of Native Americans with most of the rest the bleeding heart type about the mean white man putting them in bondage.
This isn’t about that, but a constitutional issue as to whether any governmental entity has the right to prohibit photography of “scenery” from a public conveyance on a public right-of-way. It is not national security related but an egregious first amendment violation. You can be requested not to take photographs from the train, but legally I can not see how you can be prevented.
NM list PING!!
300+ posts on the KOB website. Don’t go there, you won’t learn anything. Lots of opinions and racist rants that would be banned on FR.
Go here:
http://www.nmrailrunner.com/route_map.asp
The area in question has been in use by passenger rail for well over 100 years. Now though the Indians are complaining.
Returning to the actual issue, the ability to take photographs from a train moving on a public right of way is definitely a 1st amendment right. Further, the travelers have paid for passage on a train where access to photography of the landscape is a principal attraction. If you didn't want to do that, you would travel by air.
Thank you for your comment; I understand your situation. Just trying to separate what the “scenery” might consist of from the right to take a picture of the “scenery.”
In this case its not Amtrak but a commuter train using the same portion of the route Amtrak uses and before that for over 100 years the Santa Fe railroad. But the principle is the same; preventing the taking of a picture of scenery out a window because of some cultural “sensitivity” is a violation of a citizen’s rights.
Well, isn’t that special.
How was the Bush bash?
Indians pueblos, as "sovereign nations," believe they have that right.
How does a spit hood reflect the spit back into the spitter’s face?
I imagine that these sacred, hallowed, holy-of-holies ancestral homelands would be photographable if the price were right.
How do they have more “rights” that we? Seems they can control if you get off the train an onto their controlled property. But not if you photograph from the public right of way.
Or is this just another special bonus granted to the “natives”?
Pardon my cynicism, but I think the violation they felt was because they didn't get any $$$ for it.
I remember when I lived in Ruidoso, whenever it was that they got that big check, they would all go out and buy new pickup trucks.
I have to admit, if they were going to spend the money on a train, I wish it would go from El Paso to Roswell so I could go visit my Dad!
I have visited the Santa Anna Pueblo during feast days. No pictures allowed. Many of the pueblos I drive through say no pictures, and often, to stay on the main road - using signs to tell non-members to not enter.
Is the same rule in effect for all reservation land, or just the pueblo areas of the reservation? I've been through many of the reservations on the highways around here, no such warnings against pictures exist.
During my stay in New Mexico, I spent a lot of time at different Pueblos, mostly at Isleta. I attended their church services, feasts, the baptism of babies, was invited into their homes. My companion was the brother of the first female governor of the Pueblo. I recall his telling me that when he was a little boy he would pose in front the the St. Augustine church and have his picture taken by tourists who would pay him for that opportunity.
Years ago, I drove west from New York and paid a visit to the Acoma Pueblo, after being there a short time, I became outraged and insulted when I was told I would have to pay to take photographs -- thinking of all the beautiful places I had visited and photographed and never charged for the privilege. Some years later, I moved to New Mexico and and lived among and became friends with the Pueblo people. As I became acquainted with them and understood their issues my opinions have changed.
“Is the same rule in effect for all reservation land, or just the pueblo areas of the reservation?”
Admittedly, it has been a number of years and we’re not in New Mexico anymore so I can’t tell you, but in my youth there were no signs or rules like this (except in the case of certain ceremonies and the kiva, which has always been off-limits). My abuelita taught kindergarden at the Isleta school. She loved those kids like her own kids. It saddens me deeply to hear of all this silliness.
It was only, what, 10 or 12 years ago that we drove up to Nambe to see the church there. We drove all over the reservation trying to find it. Nobody looked at us funny. We talked to a bunch of people, including a tribal cop who would have sat there and talked to us for the entire day (The church was nothing special).
Anyway, rude reality is intruding on my memories.
Nice. 25-30,000 there. Stood for a couple of hours but the weather was warm and the people friendly. Jumbotrons allowed us back from the stage view the singers and then the President. He spoke for about 20-25 minutes. We're going to miss him despite our disagreements on some issues, that's for sure.
The article said — “Taking pictures on most pueblos has been prohibited for decades. And that has prompted Rail Runner officials to ask its riders turn off their cameras on pueblo land.”
It’s getting real crazy about taking pictures, it seems. I mean, my eyes can look at it, but my camera can’t? That’s discrimination against machines... LOL...
But, there was one time when the President was in Portland, Oregon (back in 2003, I think, can’t remember exactly). Air Force One was at Portland International and sitting around the Air National Guard jets. You could see it from one side from the Passenger Terminal on an pedestrian overpass (where people load and unload for flights).
I went to the other side, which was closer to the plane and there was an open and public golf course with a fence dividing it from the Air National Guard planes, and Air Force One.
I started taking pictures there, too... (on my side of the fence on the golf course). All of a sudden a military vehicle came over and a guy got out (in military gear with his weapon over his shoulder and one hand on it, too). He said I couldn’t be taking pictures. I said I was on my side of the fence, but he said I still couldn’t be taking pictures.
Well, anyway, I put the camera down to my chest (hanging on a neckstrap), and swiveled the viewscreen up so I could look down at it and see what I was taking. After the guy was gone, I just kept shooting pictures anyway — but with the camera hanging down from the strap, instead of me holding it up in my hands (since I could see the viewscreen just fine from that angle).
I noticed they had their “glasses” on me all the time, but they couldn’t tell that I was taking pictures...
I’ve been in several other situations, where it’s a public place, you can stand there and “look” and you don’t have to leave, but some people tell you that you can’t take pictures. I just take them anyway, when they’re not around.
I think I’m going to have to get “picture lawyer” for some of my future pictures... LOL...
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