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Creationist cosmologies explain the anomalous acceleration of Pioneer spacecraft
CMI ^ | Dr. Russell Humphreys

Posted on 01/30/2009 5:47:13 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

Creationist cosmologies explain the anomalous acceleration of Pioneer spacecraft

by D. Russell Humphreys

A broad class of creationist cosmologies offer an explanation for the ‘Pioneer effect’, an apparent small Sunward anomalous acceleration of the Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft. If a large volume of empty space surrounds the matter of the cosmos, so that the cosmos can have a centre of mass, then the matter is in a deep gravitational potential ‘well’. If space is expanding and spreading the matter outward, then the depth of the well is decreasing. According to general relativity, especially a new solution of Einstein’s equations derived in the Appendix (which also deals with Birkhoff’s theorem), the decreasing depth continuously shortens ‘radar’ distances within the well, causing the observed apparent acceleration. The magnitude of the anomalous acceleration implies the bottom of the potential well has not yet risen very far above the critical depth for gravitational time dilation. Thus the Pioneer effect supports the essentials of several creationist cosmologies: a centre of mass, expansion of space and recent time dilation. Big bang theorists, whose cosmology does not have a centre of mass, cannot use this explanation. As yet, they have no alternative theory upon which they agree....

(Excerpt) Read more at creationontheweb.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: cosmology; creation; evolution; intelligentdesign
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1 posted on 01/30/2009 5:47:13 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: gondramB; editor-surveyor; metmom; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; GourmetDan; MrB; valkyry1; ...

ping!


2 posted on 01/30/2009 5:49:01 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

To anyone truly interested in this subject, read “The Elegant Universe”. You can thank me later. It is a very readable treatise on physics from Newtonian to relativity to quantum mechanics (the two aforementioned be apparently mutually exclusive) to string theory.


3 posted on 01/30/2009 5:58:11 PM PST by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: GodGunsGuts

The expansion of the fabric of space is accelerating from
an unknown force (dark energy). Maybe the expansion is
not only at cosmological distances but also locally in our
own galaxy and maybe even the space in our solar system.


4 posted on 01/30/2009 6:24:14 PM PST by jesseam (Been there and done that!)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for posting the article.


“Creationist cosmologies (could) explain the anomalous acceleration of Pioneer spacecraft “

(fixed it)


5 posted on 01/30/2009 6:25:31 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: UCANSEE2

I’ll go with that.


6 posted on 01/30/2009 6:26:54 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: jesseam
. Maybe the expansion is not only at cosmological distances but also locally in our own galaxy and maybe even the space in our solar system.

Expansion from every 'point' at the same time. Makes sense to me. Also seems to be the only way it could be.

7 posted on 01/30/2009 6:28:31 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Can they make predictions based on this theory?


8 posted on 01/30/2009 6:30:48 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Yes. To include the anomalous acceleration of the Pioneer spacecraft.


9 posted on 01/30/2009 6:36:59 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: jesseam

Or....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2175104/posts


10 posted on 01/30/2009 6:37:51 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Yes. To include the anomalous acceleration of the Pioneer spacecraft.

Prediction means they said it would happen before it was observed. Is that what happened?

11 posted on 01/30/2009 6:39:30 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
Nope. But their cosmologies do explain the anomaly, whereas Big Bang cosmology does not. You don't have to anticipate every eventuality to determine which cosmology explains something better.
12 posted on 01/30/2009 7:10:34 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: neverdem; SunkenCiv; Physicist
Physicist, I said long ago relativity is something I've never studied (quantum gas-phase inelastic neutral atomic / molecular scattering theory).

Any comments on the cosmological "potential well" idea ??

Cheers!

13 posted on 01/30/2009 7:20:56 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

That’s fine. But please don’t tell me they predicited it if they didn’t.


14 posted on 01/30/2009 8:02:58 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: grey_whiskers
pioneer anomaly site:freerepublic.com
Google

15 posted on 01/30/2009 8:03:03 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv
Thank goodness!

For a minute there I was afraid I'd pinged you to your own thread!

Cheers!

16 posted on 01/30/2009 8:06:19 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


17 posted on 01/30/2009 8:55:49 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts
I can think of dozens of questions I would like to ask that simply cannot be asked because the axioms that scientists use.

If we were near the center of the universe, what kind of effects would that have on time?

What about blue and red shift?

Could this have anything to do with the ‘Pioneer effect’?

<Evolutionary Scientist>
Nonsense! Everybody knows the Universe has no center!
</Evolutionary Scientist> (In honor of Coyoteman)

Ah yes, consensus must not be questioned.

(Thanks for the ping!)
18 posted on 01/31/2009 2:56:38 AM PST by Fichori (I believe in a Woman's right to choose, even if she hasn't been born yet.)
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To: tacticalogic; GodGunsGuts; metmom
That’s fine. But please don’t tell me they predicited it if they didn’t.

Now that they've got the pioneer data and they can predict the next event, or make new predictions based on such data, would you like a ping?

19 posted on 01/31/2009 6:30:53 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: jesseam
The expansion of the fabric of space is accelerating from an unknown force (dark energy).

You choose to believe in unknown force that has never been observed, quantified or tested. It is a construct to get the Big Bang theory to work out.

I choose to believe in Jesus, God in the flesh, creator of all things, who lived, was crucified, dead and buried, an rose on the 3rd day to prove His claims, He is attested to in the words of the New Testament.

Who has more faith?

Colossians 1:15-17 reads "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Ultimately, Jesus is the one (not the inanimate force) that you seek!

20 posted on 01/31/2009 7:36:42 AM PST by jimmyray
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To: tpanther
Now that they've got the pioneer data and they can predict the next event, or make new predictions based on such data, would you like a ping?

Yes. Please ping me when an event is observed that they predicted in advance of the observation.

21 posted on 01/31/2009 8:37:02 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic; metmom; GodGunsGuts
Now that they've got the pioneer data and they can predict the next event, or make new predictions based on such data, would you like a ping?

Yes. Please ping me when an event is observed that they predicted in advance of the observation.

Tell us tacticalillogic, did Darwin go out and make his observations first and then make his predictions, or did he just make up his predictions and his observations came later?

22 posted on 01/31/2009 10:24:08 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther
Tell us tacticalillogic, did Darwin go out and make his observations first and then make his predictions, or did he just make up his predictions and his observations came later?

Some of both.

Do you think misspelling my screen name is adding something to your argument?

23 posted on 01/31/2009 10:54:22 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Ahhhh, some of both, so can you tell us when it’s required to present each in what particular order?

You know something other than just your whim?


24 posted on 01/31/2009 11:09:55 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther
Ahhhh, some of both, so can you tell us when it’s required to present each in what particular order?

First you develop a theory based on observations. Then you make predictions based on the theory, and see if the predictions are observed to be accurate.

I know when I'm being baited.

25 posted on 01/31/2009 11:19:31 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
First you develop a theory based on observations. Then you make predictions based on the theory, and see if the predictions are observed to be accurate.

So why did you demand the predictions be made before the observations again?

26 posted on 01/31/2009 11:37:44 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther
So why did you demand the predictions be made before the observations again?

All I did was ask if it was predicted before it was observed.

27 posted on 01/31/2009 12:43:07 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Fichori

Of course the Earth is at/near the center of the Universe. God’s glorious Design is for our sake, and it’s fitting that we would have a place at center-stage, so to speak. Evo-Atheists have tried to belittle our position in order to make us some cosmic accident scattered at the fringes of an impersonal Cosmos.


28 posted on 01/31/2009 12:58:42 PM PST by ToGodBeTheGlory ("Darwinism" is Satanism.)
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To: tacticalogic

Nah, all you did was make a complete fool of yourself again.


29 posted on 01/31/2009 1:56:18 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther

You’re going to need better insults.


30 posted on 01/31/2009 5:42:43 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Nah, you need to make better arguments.


31 posted on 02/01/2009 8:18:06 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther

Peddle your flame war to somebody else.


32 posted on 02/01/2009 8:20:31 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: ToGodBeTheGlory; metmom; Fichori
Well as much as I admire your passionate take on theology, it's not "earth" that's at the center of the universe, in theology

God is the center, He is the source of all creation. Man's relationship with God is the heart of the universe. Moreover it isn't a question of physical but spiritual.

33 posted on 02/01/2009 9:45:11 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: tacticalogic

Dismantling your nonargument isn’t a flame war, peddle your faux-victimhood somewhere else.


34 posted on 02/01/2009 11:15:38 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther

Saying “dismantle” isn’t actually dismantling.


35 posted on 02/01/2009 3:12:04 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Except in this case.


36 posted on 02/01/2009 4:40:06 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther

Because it’s you replying to me?


37 posted on 02/01/2009 4:49:10 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Because it’s you period.


38 posted on 02/01/2009 6:05:47 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther
Because it’s you period.

So out of all the forum membership, you single me out for special treatment.

39 posted on 02/01/2009 6:07:28 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Bbbbut, that agrees with God, so it’s unscientific....


40 posted on 02/01/2009 6:26:24 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: 1000 silverlings; ToGodBeTheGlory; metmom; Fichori
Well as much as I admire your passionate take on theology, it's not "earth" that's at the center of the universe, in theology

Can't agree with that. - The universe is the creation, and God exists outside of the creation. Earth is the physical center, and the reason for all the rest that lies beyond it. The physical creation is temporary, and when we transcend the physical, then God will be indeed the center for all of us.

41 posted on 02/01/2009 6:32:49 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor
God constantly sustains the universe by His Word and though it is created, He is still the source of it. It does not, and cannot exist apart from Him. Our reality that includes the earth is just a dimension and spiritual reality is a dimension as well. Not everyone is within the latter and furthermore no one knows where the boundaries to the spiritual lie, Jesus said it is within.

The spiritual Jerusalem is the mother of all the spiritual and it comes down from Heaven, intersecting this dimension, as above, so below.

Spiritual man's relationship to God is at the center of where the 2 Jerusalems meet, above and below.

42 posted on 02/01/2009 9:39:21 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Sounds remarkably similar to the new age mumbo-jumbo that the drug users spout.

Regardless, it is in no way a disproof of the statements that you originally disputed.


43 posted on 02/02/2009 6:59:25 AM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: tacticalogic

LOL...no you and a few others stick out like sore thumbs.


44 posted on 02/02/2009 8:30:58 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: editor-surveyor

I see you have never studies the Hebrew scriptures, lol


45 posted on 02/02/2009 10:00:28 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: GodGunsGuts
ping

46 posted on 02/02/2009 10:02:22 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their ROCK, And the Most High God their Redeemer.)
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To: tpanther

Care to name names, or is that enemies list supposed to be a secret?


47 posted on 02/02/2009 10:31:13 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Or if you are unfamiliar with the OT theology, try the new.

Hebrews 1:1

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

48 posted on 02/02/2009 11:12:52 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: editor-surveyor
As above,so below

Hebrews 8:5

Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

49 posted on 02/02/2009 11:21:04 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings

None of this is relevant to the subject at hand.

Why the shuffle and smoke screen?


50 posted on 02/02/2009 1:20:09 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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