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FReeper Book Club: Atlas Shrugged, The Top and the Bottom
A Publius Essay | 31 January 2009 | Publius

Posted on 01/31/2009 11:38:31 AM PST by Publius

Part I: Non-Contradiction

Chapter III: The Top and the Bottom

Synopsis

The bar is the most expensive in New York. Located on the 60th floor of a skyscraper, it looks like a cellar, even forcing its patrons to stoop to get across the room. Orren Boyle of Associated Steel, James Taggart, Paul Larkin and Wesley Mouch, now identified as Hank Rearden’s lobbyist in DC, all meet to discuss the order of Rearden Metal from the railroad.

Boyle explains to Jim that the delay in supplying steel to the railroad is due to his inability to obtain iron ore, thanks to played out mines, worn out equipment and general transportation problems. Because of the interdependency of business, he wants others to help shoulder his burdens. “The only justification of private property is public service,” says Boyle. He believes that Rearden Metal is dangerous because of its lightness; the National Council of Metal Industries has created a commission to study it.

Jim states that when the people are agreed on something, how dare anyone dissent from the popular will? (This is to become a recurring theme.)

Boyle says that while monopolies are bad, so is unbridled, destructive competition. He is upset that Rearden can always get the material needed for his mills while others can’t. Rearden’s ability and success are destroying everyone else in the steel business; therefore, there should be a national industrial policy aimed at giving everybody a fair shot at iron ore. He wants Taggart’s help in DC.

But Jim wants something for himself. Is it fair at a time of transportation shortages and railroad bankruptcies that there is duplication of service and unbridled, destructive competition from newcomers in areas where the old established railroads have always held sway? Boyle agrees that his friends at the National Alliance of Railroads might weigh in on this.

Larkin, who apparently has some pull in DC, is uncomfortable about betraying his friend Hank Rearden, but in the face of historical necessity he sees he may have to.

Wesley Mouch says little to nothing the whole time except to agree with what everyone else has said. His disloyalty to his boss is not mentioned.

The deals are sealed.

Boyle says he has visited the San Sebastian mines in the People’s State of Mexico, the last piece of private property left in that benighted country. Taggart asks about the rumors of imminent nationalization and Boyle labels them as malicious slander.

Boyle is upset about the poor rail service to San Sebastian provided by Taggart Transcontinental, especially the fact that there is only one passenger train per day, using ancient coaches hauled by an even more ancient wood-burning steam locomotive. Taggart isn’t aware of this but makes excuses to sound as if he knows what is going on.

There is a flashback explaining the relationship between Dagny and Jim and her friendship with Francisco d’Anconia. Dagny made the railroad run, while Jim worked Washington for favors and influence. Jim had built the line to Francisco’s mines at San Sebastian, but the line had never shown a profit. Jim’s friends had purchased large blocks of stock in Francisco’s enterprise. Their rationale for building the line was to help the people of Mexico, not to mention currying favor with the communist government which they believed was the wave of the future. Profit was secondary.

This mis-allocation of resources is causing the more important Rio Norte Line to crumble, and because Taggart cannot service Ellis Wyatt’s oil fields in Colorado, Wyatt is moving his oil by the competing Phoenix-Durango Railroad.

The San Sebastian Line isn’t producing because the mines aren’t producing, but Francisco had explained that his mines were still in development. Dagny knows that Francisco had become utterly worthless over the past decade, but Jim still believes he can deliver. Dagny had been putting the worst assets of the railroad into service in Mexico because she believed the line was about to be nationalized, and Jim goes ballistic when she mentions this. He orders her to run better service in Mexico, but Dagny says she will have to reduce service on the rest of the network to accomplish it. Jim doesn’t want to make decisions or take responsibility, so Dagny resolves to continue providing service her way.

Leaving her office, Dagny stops at a cigarette stand in Taggart Terminal. The proprietor says that there are only a few brands of cigarettes available because most of the other brands have gone out of business. He notes that the people who rush through the train station seem to be haunted by fear. In his list of things wrong with the world, he ends by saying, “Who is John Galt?” Dagny is upset at hearing the phrase, and both of them dislike what people mean when they say it.

Eddie Willers eats in the company cafeteria with a nameless Rail Worker. He tells the Worker that the Rio Norte Line is the last hope for Taggart Transcontinental. There have been more accidents on the system; diesel locomotives are being lost, and United Locomotive Works is two years behind schedule in delivering new equipment. McNamara of Cleveland will lay the new rail on the Rio Norte Line once Rearden delivers. Eddie also tells the Worker of Dagny’s love for the music of Richard Halley. (The Worker is to play a critical role later, so let’s keep the discussion out of spoiler territory.)

Hank and Dagny’s Enemies

The previous two chapters defined Dagny Taggart and Hank Rearden, and now we meet the villains, all friends of Jim Taggart and a scurvy lot indeed. Orren Boyle was just a name earlier, but now he has a face and an ideology. We’ve heard that Hank employs a lobbyist in DC and now we meet him, or we would if he had anything worthwhile to say.

Concerning the ever quiet and discreet Wesley Mouch, is his last name pronounced “ouch” prefixed by an “M”, “mouk”, “mooch”, or the French “moosh”?

Railroads and Government Transportation Policy

A Canadian rail magnate once told me, “Railroads are a tool of government transportation policy.” From the earliest days of railroading, government at all levels got involved.

Early in the railroad age, the state of Pennsylvania launched the Main Line of Public Works, a plan to build a railroad that would pierce the Alleghenies and join the two halves of the state. After years of pouring money down a rathole and having little to show for it, the state sold the project to a group of financiers in Philadelphia who created the Pennsylvania Railroad, the “standard railroad of the world”.

States would grant corporate charters to one group of people for building a railroad in order to prevent another group of people favored by competing interests from building a different railroad. Favoritism and influence peddling were part of the game from the very beginning.

Abraham Lincoln, a railroad lawyer by trade, gave away vast tracts of the American West to railroads to raise the capital necessary to build across the continent and link the country together. This was a product of grand vision and even grander influence peddling.

Because railroads are so capital intensive, most rail entrepreneurs were financiers first, people who built their rail lines with equal parts BS and other people’s money. It was a rare man, like the real life Jim Hill and the fictional Nat Taggart, who did it the hard way, raising money outside of Wall Street. Most rail entrepreneurs had some facet of government policy on their side.

It had started almost at the very beginning of the United States.

After the War of 1812, the federal government decided it needed a transportation policy, and it concentrated that policy upon canals and roads, classified under the term “internal improvements”. The burning issue of that era was who was going to pay for them. One side took the position of private financing and the other favored the application of government largesse. The two-party system as we know it today coalesced around this issue.

With the arrival of railroad technology in the years before the War Between the States, government policy shifted again, both at the state and federal level. This was the great era of railroad building in America.

With the invention of the internal combustion engine at the beginning of the 20th Century, transportation policy shifted back to roads. This began the great era of highway building, culminating in Eisenhower’s Interstate Highway System, the greatest and most successful application of practical socialism in American history.

Today, with the highways saturated with trucks, there are signs that government transportation policy is poised to shift back to railroads again.

While Rand’s image of the lone entrepreneur building a railroad is certainly noble, it is also rare. Government was always a key player.

Hank Rearden, Bill Gates and Industrial Policy

James Madison built a constitutional prison for the federal government. By keeping taxation powers limited, there would not be much money to spend, thus keeping the government out of trouble. One thing the Framers feared was that an entire class of people would come to the seat of government to lobby for their share of federal largesse; the term used at the time was “rent seeking”. But the implementation of government transportation policy started an inexorable process.

During the Seventies, there was serious discussion of government allocation of resources to “sunrise” industries, as opposed to “sunset” industries. Financiers like Felix Rohatyn and industrialists like Max Palevsky pushed this idea within the Democratic Party. Jimmy Carter ran for president in 1976 touting government resource allocation under the title “industrial policy”.

In the book, it was mentioned that Jim Taggart was picked as railroad president by the board because of his pull in DC, thus making him a professional rent seeker for his company. The meeting in this chapter was aimed at using the federal government as a weapon against Hank Rearden because he was a success. Rearden’s own friend and paid lobbyist were in on it. The weapon itself was industrial policy, designed not to protect the people, but to protect other industrialists.

When the Microsoft antitrust suit was filed by the government, the current wisdom was not that Bill Gates had done anything wrong, but that he had failed to hire the right lobbyists in DC and pay off the right politicians and regulators. Gates’ crime, like Hank Rearden’s, was simply to be successful.

Some Discussion Topics

  1. Orren Boyle started his company with $100 thousand of his own money – plus a $200 million government loan. Contrast this with how Hank Rearden started and what that implies, both in terms of personal character and government policy.
  2. “The only justification of private property is public service.” This sounds rather inflammatory coming from Orren Boyle, but it is very close to a quote from Theodore Roosevelt in his 1912 presidential campaign on the Progressive (“Bull Moose”) ticket. On occasion TR would work himself into a state of high dudgeon and say things he regretted in more sober moments, but this statement was never retracted by the ex-president. Its roots are in Karl Marx. Explore this statement and what it implies, not only on the part of the speaker, but the listeners at the meeting.
  3. The twin fuels of capitalism are greed and envy. Every attempt to come up with a “better” economic system underestimates these basic facets of human nature. Jim and his friends bought into Francisco’s mines because of greed, a desire for profit. Jim says he built the rail line out of altruism to help the people of Mexico, not to mention a potentially hostile Mexican government, but he doesn’t connect it to a desire to make money in Francisco’s mines. Greed is the silent presence at the meeting. There is something here that goes much deeper than simple hypocrisy. What perversions of basic human nature are at work and why?
  4. Shortages have become so endemic that there is now a stark choice between running the Rio Norte Line and running the San Sebastian Line. This implies major failures, not just in the supply chain, but in the financial system itself. What happened before Chapter 1 opened?
  5. The cigarette man says, “Who is John Galt?” He is now the fifth person to say it; he even analyzes it. Compare him to the previous four who have said it.
  6. The most expensive bar in New York is on the upper floor of a skyscraper and is designed to look like a cellar, not taking advantage of the view from its height. Is this a sign of stupidity, decadence, or something more pernicious?

Next Saturday: The Immovable Movers


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Free Republic; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bookreview; freeperbookclub
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To: Publius

Which they won by being born? Sure, I agree with that observation.

But there is also a deep insecurity in such people. They need to be on top and give orders to reinforce that conviction of superiority. Like the classic narcissist, they need others below them to provide the reflection of their own perceived greatness.

It isn’t ever enough to be convinced of one’s own superiority and not even enough to be lauded by one’s *peers*, however they define that. They need those whom they perceive to be under their whim and command in order to really experience the conviction of being essentially superior and that any extrinsic advantage (wealth/education/position) is just icing on the cake of an in-born supremacy.

The rest of us know that talent can be found walking the streets and only effort and actual results count.


101 posted on 02/02/2009 12:59:57 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: Tired of Taxes

I didn’t see Lord of the Rings. I tried to watch part of a movie on TV but it wasn’t the first one and I didn’t really know what was going on. I don’t know if I saw the elf queen. I did hate the “my precious” guy. Don’t know why anyone in their right mind would have followed him anywhere.


102 posted on 02/02/2009 1:02:56 PM PST by WV Mountain Mama ("Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Rothschild)
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To: Publius
Incompetence gets promoted too. Which fits, as it gets rid of the incompetent workers that “can't” be fired away from producers. My husband's Opa was an engineer for Messerschmidt during the war and said that good engineers never got promoted because it was too hard to find good ones. It doesn't really address the entitlement thinking of starting at the top, but it shows how management at a good company can go to the wayside over time as the incompetent worker gets promoted over the good worker.
103 posted on 02/02/2009 1:12:35 PM PST by WV Mountain Mama ("Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Rothschild)
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To: Publius
I'm going to toss the idea out there, and of course we all know where Rand stands on this, but, does anyone see the biblical importance she missed? I don't care what her views were, she was spot on the with the final consequences, complete destruction of the western world as we know it.

But the religious ideas is right out there glaring in our eyes today. Combine both philosophies, we have an obamanation in the making. Those who believe in a higher being versus those who believe man will destroy ourselves. Does the end of western civ matter how people view the outcome? How we get there is really unimportant, we're heading down this path, extremely fast. I have some videos, some writings etc, that you can take or leave on how religion plays into this. But, the bottom line is, if we don't stem this assault on Freedom, we're doomed. There is no other nation in the World that will promote Freedom today.. A book that is over 2000 years old, it's hard to dismiss.

I'm struggling with A=A.

104 posted on 02/02/2009 1:14:10 PM PST by Indy Pendance (Limbaugh/Palin 2012)
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To: Publius

Balph? Where the heck did that come from? Perhaps it’s akin to the names today.


105 posted on 02/02/2009 1:21:41 PM PST by Indy Pendance (Limbaugh/Palin 2012)
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To: Indy Pendance

I saw Newt give a sermon one morning for Dr. Charles Stanley. He talked about God’s place in the founding of our country. He said that our Founding Fathers believed in God and founded a nation on His principles. The thinking being that if our freedom, liberty and laws in our country are God given rights and laws, then who is man to try to take them away or change them.


106 posted on 02/02/2009 1:34:23 PM PST by WV Mountain Mama ("Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Rothschild)
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To: Publius

Jim Taggert states the following phrase: “”Speaking of progressive policies, Orren” said Taggert, “you might ask yourself whether at a time of transportation shortages.....”

I had thought that the term “progressive” was a recent term adopted by the left, but I have seen it several times. There was also Hank’s brother collecting money for Friends of Global Progress. Does anyone know when progressive started being used as a sort of cover name for collectivism?


107 posted on 02/02/2009 1:37:14 PM PST by MtnClimber (You don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows,)
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To: tndarlin
There is just not a need in this day and age for the amount of workers that performed tasks on the plant floor. To get ahead today is to upgrade those skill, blend with tech savvy and integrate those posts. Most do not want to hear or take advantage of the opportunity.

Unfortunately, we have gotten ourselves in the position where if the government/union/education complex doesn't create lots of simple, good-paying jobs for people who are too stupid and miseducated to do work more advanced than filling in a circle for Democrats every two years, the whole country in going to collapse into civil unrest and criminal overload.

108 posted on 02/02/2009 1:49:24 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("One man's 'magic' is another man's engineering. 'Supernatural' is a null word." -- Robert Heinlein)
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To: WV Mountain Mama
This is the quote that started changing my mind...

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

John Adams - October 13, 1789

Although Rand is ambivalent to religion, it's out there, and a huge part of our history. I'm finding my outlook for the worst case scenario, the purposeful destruction of the American way, the religious outcome is more appealing. I really believe, in these past couple months, God has given our country a second chance. Find him or be a master to satan. I'm just going to have to figure out what's going on in my personal life, and the stress these past couple months has brought. I can't sleep, everything is bombarding my senses, I wake up thinking, "I can pound sense into these morons", alas, satan is more powerful, bit God is there. I'll give my life to God. I'd rather be dead that give up my freedom. I've been so stressed about all this obamacrap, If the sanity is with God, I'm embracing it big time.

109 posted on 02/02/2009 1:54:44 PM PST by Indy Pendance (Limbaugh/Palin 2012)
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To: Indy Pendance

bit = but


110 posted on 02/02/2009 1:56:43 PM PST by Indy Pendance (Limbaugh/Palin 2012)
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To: MtnClimber

Progressive is code for commie, liberal, DEMOCRAT. Who knows where it came from, it’s like compassionate conservationism, utter bull****. Ronald Reagen thought we left this on the ash heap of history. The cancer has come back. McCarthy was right.


111 posted on 02/02/2009 2:03:12 PM PST by Indy Pendance (Limbaugh/Palin 2012)
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To: Publius
Howdy Pub'! Tough to comment directly on this particular chapter and not step into the spoiler zone so I'll head for safe ground. I mentioned before that I thought the name "Wesley Mouch" was one of the great names in fiction - it conjures up an unpleasant subliminal association either way it's pronounced - "mooch" or "mouth." Neat trick, actually.

This chapter brings us to a recurrent topic in AS, that of "fairness" and how that ambiguous phrase is used to cover a grand rhetorical con game. One hears it in the mouths of both sides, the bad guys somewhat more often than the good, but what they mean by it is two very different things. Just as no two cultures agree on the definition of the term "justice" (more on that one later) they don't agree on "fair."

In the mouths of Rand's protagonists the term "fair" might be considered interchangeable with "merited" or "earned"; that is, one's desserts being a function of one's actions. In the mouths of such as James Taggart it represents an equitable division of material possessions regardless of one's actions: meritless. Rand considers the latter immoral and I am inclined to agree.

This is the fundamental philosophical conflict between the two sides. The notion that material possessions are somehow "naturally" evenly distributed is central to such systems as Marxism, (that state of nature existing nowhere in fact but between the theoretician's ears). It is a premise central to collectivist approaches at building a society, and its corollaries are (1) that inequities of such distribution are undesirable and constitute theft by the individual from the collective, and (2) that it is the proper function of authority to remediate them.

This sort of "fairness" is reminiscent of my parents doling out blocks to my brother and myself - a game we used to call "twofer" as in "two for you, two for you," - which is a perfect metaphor for the socialist view of private property in general, to be held in the name of the collective and doled out to its individual members as deemed desirable by those entrusted to lead - the cadre, if you will. "Fair" here is to be taken however that authority chooses to define it. It is equitable only in theory - in practice never turns out that way as commentators from Orwell to Djilas have shown. Ironically, the ones calling most for this sort of "fairness" tend to be not the disadvantaged, but the advantaged, and the reason isn't that they want more material possessions, but that they want the power to distribute them. That sort of "fairness" is always arbitrary, and the power of arbitration is the power to rule.

Contrasted to this is Rand's view that "fairness" in the distribution of material goods is a function of creative activity and that those who manage it by jobbing the system are the thieves - "moochers and looters," as she puts it. It is easy to envisage Mouch and James Taggart as moochers, useless parasites on a system that heretofore could muster the surplus necessary to support them. The death of the host is in the interest of no competent parasite.

In fact, they are not. To Rand they truly are looters, and the death of the host is inconsequential to them so long as the system may be maintained. It is the system, and not the looters, that Atlas must shrug from his shoulders.

Clearly the roots of economic value within this system are creative activity, the likes of Taggart adding little value to the product but a good deal of cost. At first glance this skirts the Ricardan/Marxian Labor Theory of Value (Marx insisted it was a definition, not a theory, and refused to debate it as the latter). In fact, under the strict laissez-faire capitalism that is the root of Rand's system a commodity is worth what it takes to acquire it, and nothing more. There is, in fact, room for mooching and looting there, which is probably why all economic systems tend to display them. It is unclear that they necessarily would be absent from the post-Shrug world of Galt's Gulch writ large, but more of that later.

Substitute the phrase "social justice" for "fairness" and we may read precisely this case in every day's newspapers. Inequities in the distribution of material goods are presented as the results of systemic theft, "institutional racism," "Whiteness studies," and a host of other neologisms - and it is the putative responsibility of authority to remediate them. It's a pity Rand didn't name one of AS's villains "Jesse Jackson," or "Cornel West" because they belong there. IMHO, of course.

112 posted on 02/02/2009 2:37:33 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill

Sorry - “Whiteness Studies” = “Whiteness.”


113 posted on 02/02/2009 2:56:57 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Unfortunately, we have gotten ourselves in the position where if the government/union/education complex doesn't create lots of simple, good-paying jobs for people who are too stupid and miseducated to do work more advanced than filling in a circle for Democrats every two years, the whole country in going to collapse into civil unrest and criminal overload.

This is where the age old question comes up, who is responsible for the training? The employee that wants to get ahead? The union that is working for their members to create more opportunity? The owner who wants to keep good people and create opportunity for his loyal workers? Or the Government? I feel it is the person's responsibility to create the opportunity for themselves.

114 posted on 02/02/2009 3:06:08 PM PST by tndarlin
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To: reformedliberal
Which they won by being born? Sure, I agree with that observation.

Close.

Liberals will tell you -- correctly -- that 90% of Americans will live and die in the same socio-economic class they are born into. They will also tell you -- incorrectly -- that the American dream is a lie intended to convince people to live with great inequality.

Capitalism is highly selective. Not everybody is cut out for the world of high competition. Some fail once and never try again. Some are too afraid to even try.

Liberals argue that hard work and persistence are no substitute for luck. Often that luck comes from being born into the right circumstances. Therefore, those who achieve success did so by being lucky in life's lottery, not because they worked for it. There is nothing to be proud of in success. It merely means that a successful man became successful, not by means of his own work, but by standing in the right place at the right time. His success is not his own, therefore neither is his money.

This is what I'm trying to get at.

115 posted on 02/02/2009 3:16:55 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: MtnClimber
The term "progressive" first came into common use after the Civil War. It referred to a movement that had originated in eastern and midwestern Republicanism that arose out of reaction to the capture of the government by robber baron capitalists.

The Civil War had ended the states rights, or federalism, argument between Hamiltonians and Jeffersonians. The Jeffersonian impulse now aimed at capturing the powerful central government that Hamilton and Clay had wanted and that Lincoln had created. Rather than put the government at the service of bankers and industrialists, Jeffersonians (progressives) wanted to put the government at the service of the people.

Like any political movement, the Progressives spent decades wandering in the desert, but Theodore Roosevelt put them into power.

They ended up moving from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party during the Twenties, but now both parties claim the mantle of progressivism to one degree or another.

116 posted on 02/02/2009 3:26:13 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Indy Pendance

See Post #116.


117 posted on 02/02/2009 3:43:44 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Publius

Yes, I see what Rand is saying, here. It’s the foundational belief of the looters/liberals.


118 posted on 02/02/2009 3:45:30 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: reformedliberal
It’s the foundational belief of the looters/liberals.

By George, I think you've got it!

119 posted on 02/02/2009 3:47:59 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Publius; Billthedrill

You know, between the two of you, this is turning into a wonderful course on history, economics and political history.

Thank you! It is a great way to handle the present economic/historical/political situation.


120 posted on 02/02/2009 3:55:45 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: reformedliberal
You only get this kind of education at FR, not DU or Kos. That's why this site is so important.
121 posted on 02/02/2009 4:00:48 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Publius

Publius, thank you so much for doing this! I had intended to read AS again and this analysis is really a great way to get the most out of the book!


122 posted on 02/02/2009 4:53:58 PM PST by MtnClimber (You don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows,)
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To: Publius
I would cast Rutger Hauer as Ragnar Danneskjold.

Perfect character but at 65 I fear he is to old for the part now.

You fans of 24, could Kiefer Sutherland play the part?

How about the scandinavian Stellan Skarsgard?

The Scot actor Kevin McKidd?

123 posted on 02/02/2009 8:16:20 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: Publius

I had been thinking that Orlando Bloom who played the bow and arrow wielding Legolas Greenleaf in the Lord of the Rings movie and was also in one or more Pirates of the Carribean movies would be great as Ragnar Danneskjold.


124 posted on 02/02/2009 8:38:38 PM PST by MtnClimber (You don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows,)
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To: youturn

Ping to Chapter 3.


125 posted on 02/02/2009 8:51:49 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: WV Mountain Mama

rationing is exactly what taxdodger Daschle has in mind


126 posted on 02/02/2009 9:05:54 PM PST by GeronL (Had the flu. Not well yet.)
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To: Publius

Sorry, late to the book club.

Add me to the ping list?

Great topic. Enjoyed your insights.


127 posted on 02/03/2009 3:41:34 AM PST by turfmann
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To: stylin_geek

Ping to Chapter 3.


128 posted on 02/03/2009 3:55:43 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: FBD

Ping to Chapter 3.


129 posted on 02/03/2009 10:46:32 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Publius

So, the characters are developing, who in the current political environment are similar to the characters in AS? I might think Rahm is Wesley. Dagney isn’t Sarah, but their ideas are close. It would be an interesting exercise.


130 posted on 02/04/2009 1:24:03 PM PST by Indy Pendance (Limbaugh/Palin 2012)
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To: suthener

Ping to Chapter 3.


131 posted on 02/04/2009 2:46:53 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Indy Pendance

We’re going to be doing a lot more of these exercises as our book club moves on. Be patient. Wesley is nothing compared to monsters like Cuffy Meigs.


132 posted on 02/04/2009 2:48:11 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Publius

I finally got a copy of the book and am caught up now. I’ll start participating. Thanks for the pings.


133 posted on 02/06/2009 6:05:11 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan
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To: Publius
not to mention currying favor with the communist government which they believed was the wave of the future.

When the book was published in 1957 this was not an isolated opinion. This was the age of Sputnik, when the Soviet Union seemed at least to be equal and at times superior to the United States. Around this time, John W. Campbell (the influential and extremely conservative editor of Astounding Science Fiction) published many stories around this time by Mack Reynolds and others, about a future where the USA was second-rate power in a world dominated by the technological and economic prowess of the USSR. In other words, a belief that Communism was the wave of the future was held by many from all over the political spectrum, not just leftist ideologues.

Today, after the collapse of the Soviet empire in 1989-91, this kind of faith in the USSR seems almost quaint, but it was very real and very much informed Rand's world.

The most expensive bar in New York...is designed to look like a cellar

Another prescient image of the future. The 1980s saw the beginnings of "rave" culture, where the coolest clubs were literally abandoned warehouses taken over for the night by hipsters.

134 posted on 02/07/2009 8:03:59 PM PST by denydenydeny (People in dictatorships long for truth while pampered, decadent people in the West long for myth.)
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To: Publius
The meeting in this chapter was aimed at using the federal government as a weapon against Hank Rearden because he was a success.

Rearden's success was a threat because it was an inspiration. If the goal is nationalization, then the way to further that goal is to remove the incentive to acheive through sapping the hope that one can acheive without the government and make it seem almost like a crime to become a success independently.

This way, not only is it less likely that someone will want to strive but if they do, then they will be castigated as being opposed to the public good and the passions of the masses will be used in councils against them.

Sounds eerily like the present day, doesn't it.

135 posted on 02/08/2009 12:25:50 PM PST by TheThinker (Shame and guilt mongering is the Left's favorite tool of control.)
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To: IronJack
It is Keats’ “widening gyre”

Yeats, not Keats.

136 posted on 06/27/2009 3:12:05 PM PDT by matt1234
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To: Publius
Wanting to start at the top is a sign of entitlement. What belief is the key to a sense of entitlement? Why do liberals ignore the basic steps to success and want it all now?

Liberals think that advantage, especially economic advantage, is unearned and undeserved. For example, an advantaged (rich) person got his money due to illicit practices, exploitation, inheritance and/or luck. Since all of these means are improper to a liberal, the advantaged person has no right to his position. As a corollary, a disadvantaged person has every right to usurp the position of the advantaged (i.e., start at the top). In fact, a disadvantaged person may see such usurpation as a noble act.

137 posted on 06/27/2009 3:54:26 PM PDT by matt1234
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To: matt1234
Liberals think that advantage, especially economic advantage, is unearned and undeserved.

In Marxism, all inequities are the result of class differences ... social constructs, not human failings. "Fix" the society and you erase the inequities. The corollary of course is that no one "deserves" more than any other, regardless of their abilities, ethic, or diligence. They should simply revel in their ability to contribute more to the Collective since, in the edenic Marxist vision, no status accrues to material wealth anyway.

And you're right. It was Yeats, not Keats. Unpardonable sin for an English major.

138 posted on 06/28/2009 8:56:38 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: r-q-tek86
Part I, Chapter IV: The Immovable Movers
139 posted on 08/14/2009 6:16:19 PM PDT by r-q-tek86 ("A building has integrity just like a man. And just as seldom." - Ayn Rand)
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To: Califreak

Bookmark


140 posted on 10/29/2009 12:04:26 PM PDT by Califreak (Obama's Purple Reign must be stopped!)
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