Posted on 01/31/2009 3:18:19 PM PST by jimbo123
Don't let anyone tell you the American dream has faded. the truth is the U.S. is still minting lots of millionaires. Glenn Goss is one of them.
Goss retired four years ago, at 42, from a $90,000 job as a police commander in Delray Beach, Fla. He immediately began drawing a $65,000 annual pension that is guaranteed for life, is indexed to keep up with inflation and comes with full health benefits.
Goss promptly took a new job as police chief in nearby Highland Beach. One big lure: the benefits.
Given that the average man his age will live to 78, Goss is already worth nearly $2 million, based on the present value of his vested retirement benefits. Looked at another way, he is a $2 million liability to Florida taxpayers.
(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...
Change the system if we don't like it. Yet it's only going to get worse with liberals in charge.
And, don’t forget, depending on the State, Mr. Goss probably paid into the system as well.
Looked at another way, he is a $2 million liability to Florida taxpayers.
Wow! How disgusting this piece of crap is. I wonder how much he would care if he was being mugged or his house robbed or was murdered when this cop would be his only chance at finding out who did it or even better stopped the perp who was doing it before it went to far. Jealous that perhaps he could not do the job perhaps????
"Change the system if we don't like it. Yet it's only going to get worse with liberals in charge."
Can Goss and your uncle vote?
Yeah, I'm sure they want to change the system.
Truth in adverting: I am retired Air Force and you can say I have a similar deal, though not quite as generous as Goss. I got a pension after 20 years of service. I have noticed that, lately, there are a number of articles like this where people are starting to question to fairness of these pensions. This one strikes me as especially hateful, referring to Goss (a retired police commander) as a $2M liability.
A couple of things:
1. Many of the jobs that offer these pensions are those that are dangerous and hard(military, police, fire, etc) that no one wants to do—especially when they are 20 or so years old (when they have their whole life ahead of them).
2. Rules are rules and promises are promises. Part of the incentive to stick with these jobs, as opposed to getting out after a few years, is the pension. I know that my family could have done without moving every 3 years and missing me when I was TDY/deployed.
3. Now that we are in our late 40s, I have had a number of college friends rib me about the pension. They say things like: “well, if I only knew what a great deal you had, I would have....yada yada yada”. Well, ya know what? They did know (’cause I tried to recruit them at the time) and they passed. Now that they are older, apparently, they have changed their minds. Too bad.
4. Was Goss (and those like him) a “$2M liability” when they were answering those dangerous calls in their younger days? Probably not. But of course, he is now.
I really get the feeling those of us who took the risk and played by the rules will now get shafted—now that our peers are envious of the “great deals” we have. You take away the pension incentive, and these jobs will be a lot less attractive then they already are. But, hey, the average citizen can tote a gun and defend themselves, right?
As a for-life, indexed annual payment from the age of 42? You’ve got to be kidding.
He couldn’t have been working for more than 20 years tops, and now he gets paid 40 to 50 years for nothing? All of these government systems, down to the municipal level have got way out of whack in compensation, and instead of learning to deal with it in the downturn—they’re getting bailed out by Obama with our futures!
More:
Four in five public-sector workers have lifetime pensions, versus only one in five in the private sector. The difference shifts huge risks from government to private-sector workers.
NYC socked away $20,000 per employee last year for pension benefits. Since 2000 its pension funding bill has risen ninefold, from $615 million to $5.6 billion in 2008. That’s more than the city spends on transport, health care, parks, libraries, museums and City University of New York combined, says the Citizens Budget Commission.
My current boss is ex-Army (transportation). She regrets to this day that she did not put in her 20 years. I sure would have.
That is true. I think cities and towns are not able to fund them though. There seems like no such thing as a sure thing retirement anymore.
Blah. Blah. Blah.
Sure, cops are great, but a $2,000,000 retirement at the age of 42?
You have to be kidding! How can you defend that?
He worked 20 years and you think he deserves an extra $100,000/year for those years -- with adjustments for inflation?
Cmon. They're exploiting the very people they're supposed to serve.
You served in the military—thank you!—which is an entirely different thing. But cops and firemen are seldom toward the tops in workplace risk—you’d have to look at loggers, fishermen, ranchers, farmers, even pizza deliverymen for that—they typically have long lines of prospective employees lined up lusting for such careers, they don’t require a high level of intelligence or education, and they are very much protected throughout by the unions.
Still, all of these positions would be better structured with higher levels of pay and defined contribution pensions, so neither governments nor private employers can be sunk by pushing their obligations down the road.
Hopefully, Mr. Goss has his mortgage paid off or will shortly. I hope he planned it that way.
My other post didn’t show up for some reason. These benefits are negotiated with a lot of give and take over the years. I know that most of my 25 years the raises were 1-2% below what everyone else was getting. I contributed 8% into my pension. It is difficult to use current events as the barometer for what we see as a high pension but most if not all of these benefits were negotiated years ago.
EXACTLY. Thanks for the information.
Bullcrap. The military has done studies that show that soldiers would be content with taking 20% of their future expected pay added to their current pay without affecting recruitment.
But, hey, the average citizen can tote a gun and defend themselves, right?
Just who do you think you are? The lord of the manor protecting your subjects?
Listen. I appreciate the fighting man. But we're part of a team. You don't get to use us.
Get real you people.
There are quickly forming two classes of people in the United States. Government workers who are paid richly, get almost, free medical care for life, pensions at near full salary, lavish automatic cost-of-living increases, and protection from layoffs. And most of them really don’t work hard and depend on non-government contractors to do the real work of their agencies.
The rest of the workers work hard, get low pay when they aren’t displaced by illegal aliens, not much medical insurance, no cost of living increases, increasingly no pensions, and get laid off.
And through their taxes pay for all the government drones who live like kings. Do you know of any federal government workers affected by this economic crisis?
It can’t go on much longer. A revolt is coming.
Except that
I think it’s 20 years in NY, though I’m not certain.
But cops and firemen are seldom toward the tops in workplace risk
He put his money into the system.
He paid $2 million into his retirement?
Actually, more and more companies are no longer paying annuities, they are matching 401K funds - but annuities for life have gone bye-bye based on the expense and people living much longer. Fire fighters, police etc deserve something to outset the danger that they face everyday, but even those that have a desk job get the same annuity benefits.
It's strange that most of us no longer receive annuity payments (for life), but for some reason we need to fund those categories of public servants that do. Doesn't seem fair to me.
The present value is $2,000,000.00. He worked 20 years. Do you really think he put in 100,000.00 a year?
The guy gets $65,000 a year pension. The 2 million is a projected figure of the guy's worth, depending on how many years he lives. I worked for NY State for over 25 years. Every payday, 3% of my wages was mandatorily deducted for my pension. I had almost 1 million sacked away at the time I retired. Will I live long enough to draw it all? Probably not. I even took a reduced monthly rate so that if I die within 15 years of my retirement, my kids will share in what is left. If I die after that 15 years, the state takes it all back.
I'm betting that there are a lot of retired United Auto Workers whose retirement is worth as much, if not more than this cop. But you don't hear anyone bitching about that do you? The difference between those UAW workers and the cop is that they weren't on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You don't hang up your police officer's status when you punch out of work each day.
The money that these employees put into the retirement system is pooled like insurance and invested. It’s not free. That’s what missing from these articles.
No he didn't. He put tax payers money into the system.
Listen. I appreciate the fighting man. But we’re part of a team. You don’t get to use us.
As for these “studies”, color me skeptical. I can tell you that a hell of a lot of people would get out were it not for the pension. Once you’re over 30 with a family, there is a lot of pressure to settle down in one place. And there are many jobs that are higher paying than the military.
My larger point is that these are dangerous jobs. If you don’t provide the incentive, people won’t voluntarily do it. And then it will fall to each citizen to arrange for their own protection.
One of the more attractive things about being a policeman is that while you will never get rich, you know that your job and your pension are pretty secure unless you REALLY screw the pooch.
Had I stayed fully employed like I was before I had babies, I would have made lots of money. But I would most likely be out of a job today.
That middle-income security starts to look real attractive. I’m glad we did it the way we did. Not rich, but secure.
Regards,
You had a million socked away when you retired after 25 years. So you accumulated $40,000.00 a year on 3% deductions (I know take into account interest so maybe $20,000.00). What was your salary $600,000 plus? Don’t try to claim that government workers don’t have gold plated pensions.
Actually, more and more companies are no longer paying annuities, they are matching 401K funds - but annuities for life have gone bye-bye based on the expense and people living much longer. Fire fighters, police etc deserve something to outset the danger that they face everyday, but even those that have a desk job get the same annuity benefits.
It's strange that most of us no longer receive annuity payments (for life), but for some reason we need to fund those categories of public servants that do. Doesn't seem fair to me.
Yes, it’s pooled and invested, but there is no risk, they are guaranteed this money no matter what. Every municipal entity has huge liabilities now because of the market, in addition to the huge funds put in by the municipality each year.
You have a point - but, let’s change the system - significantly increase the pay and significantly decrease early year benefits aligned with the rest of us.
Looks like a case of Forbes Magazine Pension Penis envy.
But it's perfectly o.k. to give those measley Executive Bonuses..huh?..Hypocrites, go jump in the lake.
Why don’t you find a website of a State’s PERS system and learn how it works.
There is no way to argue that current government workers do not get gold plated pensions. Currently every american in the private sector has to put almost 14% of their salary into Social Security. Does Social Security pay anywhere near 75% of salary after working only 30 years (at max) and retiring at 55?
No state income tax in Florida.
Good for Florida. What about sales tax? We have both an income and sales tax in Ohio.
I made an error when I said it was almost a million. It was a little over half a million. That’s what the state said I had in my pension account when I retired five years ago. I’m assuming that amount includes 25+ years of interest, along with whatever funds the State kicks in. I actually had 33 years of State employment, but 25 with the one department I actually retired from.
OK, that makes a little more sense. However it still wouldn’t come from a 3% contribution. The state kicked in for youe retirement. Is your pension payment guaranteed? Or did your account drop in value like everyone elses.
Maybe he didn't have to pay taxes on his income, but he probably had mandatory deductions taken from his pay for the pension fund he was enrolled in.
Listen. I appreciate the fighting man. But we’re part of a team. You don’t get to use us.
WE DON’T GET TO USE YOU?!
Listen, brother, when you deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan or the Horn of Africa or whatever other h**l-hole the military sends you to for 12-24 months at a time, THEN you can complain about the luxuries of the military retirement.
When you lose one or more limbs, or an eye, or a spleen, as a result of an IED attack on your convoy, THEN you can complain about how WE are using YOU for our obvious enrichment.
When you lose your best friend in the entire world, the man you loved as your own kin, in some God-forsaken corner of the world, THEN you can complain about being used by “greedy” military types who are obviously in it only for the money.
Until then, brother, you ought to hang up your tongue, and hang down your head in shame for questioning the “benefits” those men and women are earning every minute of every day.
There is no way someone who makes $90,000.00 when he retires at 42 could pay in enough to have a $65,000.00 payment for 30+ years. Even if he put in every penny he made.
Yes, I'm assuming that it is, but then again, nothing is ever really guaranteed. New York State can do whatever they want to its retirees.
The number of "points" MI pays to get state employees to retire early is double the private sector and now the state had huge liabilities. Great for the 42 year old cop, but this isn't advice but given the fact he is from Florida, and this might be rampid their, I an't buying any of their Muni Bonds soon... Ditto that CA and NY and MI....
The day may come soon when reality will hit the states and defined benefit plans will have to go the way of 401(k's) and 403(b's) with the same amount contributed to bulding a bond ladder within those vehicles. These annunites are costly, JMHO....
If you served in our military, God bless you.
My taxes should not go for paying guaranteed $2 million dollar pensions for civil servants nor should it be for bonuses and bailouts for Wall Street execs who should forced to file bankruptcy. Both groups are leeches who should be ashamed for scamming the taxpayer.
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