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In Davos, protectionism is a dirty word (Putin for a global putsch to topple the dollar)
Telegraph ^ | 01/31/09 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Posted on 02/01/2009 3:12:01 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster

In Davos, protectionism is a dirty word

The beggar-thy-neighbour phase has begun in earnest. "Buy American" legislation has advanced from a barely credible threat to imminent reality on Capitol Hill in just weeks.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Last Updated: 11:31PM GMT 31 Jan 2009

The House has voted for a bill that prohibits the use of foreign steel in most infrastructure projects funded by Barack Obama's $820bn (£563bn) rescue package. The Senate is drawing up plans to widen that to all manufactured goods.

This is what happens when a country loses half a million jobs a month, and when the state becomes spender-of-last-resort. Taxpayers are tribal. They do not want precious stimulus to feed the foreigner.

Even so, this Dutch auction has the disorderly feel of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff debacle in 1930, though this time the collapse of commerce – if allowed to happen – will have very different consequences for the global balance of power.

Mr Obama can veto the law, should he wish to pick a fight with Capitol Hill from day one. The world watches and waits in horror, especially in Davos.

"Everybody here is talking about protectionism. There's not a prime minister present not talking about protectionism," said Peter Sutherland, former (GATT) trade chief and now chair of BP.

Days earlier, US Treasury chief Tim Geithner called China a "currency manipulator" – meaning that Beijing holds down the yuan to boost exports. The term is turbo-charged. It implies mandatory trade sanctions under US law.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bho44; bhotrade; coldwar2; davos; dollar; protectionism; putin; russia; sovietunion; tradwar
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I have known for some time that America is most dangerous when it is nearly broke. Many anti-American elements did not see it through because they got so emotionally whipped up in anti-American hatred.

Anyway they would fall fast to the bottom and serves as a cushion for America following after them.

1 posted on 02/01/2009 3:12:03 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster; PAR35; bamahead; AndyJackson; Thane_Banquo; nicksaunt; MadLibDisease; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 02/01/2009 3:12:29 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

don’t be complacent. our enemies are not dumb.


3 posted on 02/01/2009 3:19:55 AM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: chuck_the_tv_out

that’s right


4 posted on 02/01/2009 3:21:28 AM PST by myknowledge (Nothing beats Australia's F-22EMA Raptor)
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To: chuck_the_tv_out
They may not be dumb, but they have their own tunnel vision just like Wall St. folks or globalists.
5 posted on 02/01/2009 3:23:51 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Another wacky article getting all worked up about us only buying US steel for the stimulus package. We run a huge trade deficit so this is good move. Invoking Smoot Hawley is childish


6 posted on 02/01/2009 3:27:23 AM PST by dennisw (white trash philosophizer)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

“They may not be dumb, but they have their own tunnel vision just like Wall St. folks or globalists.”

I would disagree. I think George Foreman though that before the rumble in the jungle. then pow, your enemy comes out punching & your plan goes to ...

don’t be complacent.


7 posted on 02/01/2009 3:30:02 AM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: dennisw
Justified or not, they would feel that they have to reciprocate. I think there will be some escalation back and forth.
8 posted on 02/01/2009 3:32:56 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: chuck_the_tv_out
I won't be complacent. I have been on them since God knows when. I was just pointing out that enemies have just as many vulnerabilities and wrong take of the situation.

The result is not so much as monolithic opposition taking on U.S. but world fractured into several pieces, and no clear dominant power. They are all at once taking on their enemies as well as domestic political turmoil. It would be quite fluid and chaotic situation for long time.

9 posted on 02/01/2009 3:38:08 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: dennisw

> Another wacky article getting all worked up about us only buying US steel for the stimulus package. We run a huge trade deficit so this is good move. Invoking Smoot Hawley is childish

Why would it be a good move to overpay for steel? Why would it be a good move to get other countries to put similar restrictions on American goods? Capitalism and trade have been the biggest generators of wealth. This bill aims to kill both. Good move indeed - if your aim is to bankrupt the United States.


10 posted on 02/01/2009 3:43:18 AM PST by bluejay
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To: bluejay; dennisw

One American industry after another has been fleeing the U.S. for cheap labor.

We’ve been exporting jobs much more efficiently than products.

I see nothing wrong with going back to the negotiating table with some countries as it concerns trade.


11 posted on 02/01/2009 3:46:05 AM PST by durasell
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Some good old Reagan “protectionism” would be a good thing. We can call it self preservationism.


12 posted on 02/01/2009 3:52:55 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: bluejay

Whatever recovery from the Bush years that Obama preached about, and the Europeans were all giddy about....is going down the drain. When he visits countries like India, France, etc...they won’t be standing to have a parade...but more likely to have a demonstration against him.


13 posted on 02/01/2009 3:54:14 AM PST by pepsionice
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To: pepsionice
I suspect that their complaint starts with an obligatory prelude, "I know it is all Bush's fault, and you are so much better than he, but still.. (laundry list of gripes inserted here.)"

In essence, a typical rationalization of their past behavior at work.:-)

14 posted on 02/01/2009 4:02:17 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
I differ from most of you here, in that I am a radical protectionist. I favor American autarky, a continental economy depending on resource exploitation and domestic production, and walls at the southern border, which I figure should be about 100 miles south of the present one, with almost all of that 100 miles being a military frontier zone.

But that's just me.

15 posted on 02/01/2009 4:06:40 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: dennisw

All Federally funded road projects require contractors to purchase US steel now. It’s been that way forever. I wouldn’t be surprised if USACE projects are the same.

Besides, how much steel is used in STD prevention education, tobacco use suppression, etc.


16 posted on 02/01/2009 4:09:10 AM PST by lfrancis
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To: durasell

> We’ve been exporting jobs much more efficiently than products.

Actually, just prior to this recession our unemployment rate was under 5%. How can you claim that we have been losing jobs? Are you claiming that without trade our unemployment would have been lower? Do you have any evidence to support that claim? Free trade has been disproportionally good for our country (probably because we have been most committed to free trade). Why would you want to kill the proverbial goose?


17 posted on 02/01/2009 4:21:57 AM PST by bluejay
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To: bluejay

A lot of those jobs were bubble-related and not in manufacturing. Mortgage brokers and real estate agents do not make for a strong economy.


18 posted on 02/01/2009 4:26:00 AM PST by durasell
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To: pepsionice

> When he visits countries like India, France, etc...they won’t be standing to have a parade...but more likely to have a demonstration against him.

Already starting. I hope Obama is no longer maintaining any illusions that he can get more NATO forces into Afghanistan or that any country will volunteer to house Guantanamo inmates.

I know the odds of defeating this “stimulus” bill are slim, but if Republicans can pull it off it will place the new administration on the defensive for the next two years.


19 posted on 02/01/2009 4:26:12 AM PST by bluejay
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To: durasell

> A lot of those jobs were bubble-related and not in manufacturing. Mortgage brokers and real estate agents do not make for a strong economy.

“Not in manufacturing” = “bubble-related”? What does that mean? A biotechnology engineer is “not in manufacturing”. Is that not a good job? How about computer or communications engineer? Researcher? Personally, I would rather be a mortgage broker than work in a steel plant. At least I would like to have that choice.


20 posted on 02/01/2009 4:33:32 AM PST by bluejay
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To: dennisw

Buying only American steel for the “infrastructure” is a good thing, provided it does not cause steel prices to go up.


21 posted on 02/01/2009 4:33:32 AM PST by WildcatClan (Iam fimus mos ledo ventus apparatus)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Find it rather ironic that the biggest protesters of this “buy American” provision are American companies themselves. Companies like GE, and Caterpillar derive a rather significant percentage of sales in foreign countries. If these sales go by the way side you'll see even more Americans out of work as a result. I understand the concept of trying to preserve jobs by “buying American”, but the reality of a global economy makes this a losing proposition when other countries retaliate against protectionist measures.
22 posted on 02/01/2009 4:37:49 AM PST by RU88 (The false messiah can not change water into wine any more than he can get unity from diversity.)
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To: durasell

I live along the I94 corridor in Michigan. We used to be an industrial powerhouse. Here in Jackson alone we used to have Yard man, Goodyear, Die cast and Clark Equipment and a few other big players. For every one of those big players there were a half dozen smaller support shops. Back when NAFTA was passed our boss warned us that our small print shop wouldn’t be able to compete against mexico and within a year the doors were closed.

Today we have an empty run down industrial area with retail, resturants and welfare. Our unemploment rate topped 11% this week.

I’m sure some genius will be along soon to inform me that it’s all because of Jenny Granholm and unions. While not helpful they’re far from the only reason. The fact is that for every union job “conservatives” manage to eliminate, we lose a dozen or more non union jobs.

Someone needs to explain to me, why both union and non union jobs managed to thrive here in Michigan till the plummet following the passage of NAFTA.


23 posted on 02/01/2009 4:54:56 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Other countries are lending us the $$ for our excess. Do you think they will take kindly to being shut out? They want to hold our debt AND reap the profits when our consumers spend. It is a win-win situation for them that gives them an ever-bigger stranglehold over us.


24 posted on 02/01/2009 5:01:56 AM PST by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Protectionism is a very bad move. It will not help the economy and will not affect the unemployment rate in the near future.

We have lost manufacturing jobs not to other nations, but to productivity/technology. Our manufacturing has remained steady as a % of GDP while jobs have consistently dropped over the last forty years.

All this move will do is raise the price of steel at the worst time and start trade wars that will cripple our exports.

The US is still the largest manufacturer and third largest exporter on earth....abandoning free trade hurts us far more than it helps. It limits consumer choice, raises prices, and lowers quality.

This is just another Pelosi sop to the unions.


25 posted on 02/01/2009 5:09:11 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
(Putin for a global putsch to topple the dollar)

Is he nuts! He can't do that as fast as O and his handy henchman in the democratic party can.

26 posted on 02/01/2009 5:43:26 AM PST by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: cripplecreek

What AMERICAN steel companies re they going to find steel at?

I thought all the environazis had manages to close the USA steel mills.
If there are still some here, where is the ore coming from> They closed down the Mesabi iron ore mines in Minnesota.
With that state putting a Muslim and possible Franken into the Congress, I sure don’t see that ore mine opening up again....
With the “enviromental reviews” that are required to do anything today, how will they find new sources of ore?
Where willthey let new steel plants be built?


27 posted on 02/01/2009 5:44:19 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: ridesthemiles

So what you’re saying is that we should simply give in to the enviroweenies?


28 posted on 02/01/2009 5:46:42 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: A.Hun; Toddsterpatriot
The US is still the largest manufacturer and third largest exporter on earth....abandoning free trade hurts us far more than it helps. It limits consumer choice, raises prices, and lowers quality.

Yes indeed! We are a super power when it come to importing. Just ask Toddster

29 posted on 02/01/2009 6:07:34 AM PST by dennisw (white trash philosophizer)
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To: A.Hun

Bingo, a Fact to consider, in 2006, US Mfg added the highest % to US GDP in history. We have lost manufacturing jobs not to other nations, but to productivity/technology. The US is still the largest manufacturer and third largest exporter on earth....abandoning free trade hurts us far more than it helps. It limits consumer choice, raises prices, and lowers quality.
Wake up Americans, the current Admin and the Left is not concerned with American prosperity or strength. They are 180 degrees from that!


30 posted on 02/01/2009 6:12:21 AM PST by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: dennisw

You poor confused little girl.


31 posted on 02/01/2009 6:16:17 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Havoc has been back since September. Or was it April?)
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To: cripplecreek; Jim Noble
I live along the I94 corridor in Michigan. We used to be an industrial powerhouse. Here in Jackson alone we used to have Yard man, Goodyear, Die cast and Clark Equipment and a few other big players. For every one of those big players there were a half dozen smaller support shops. Back when NAFTA was passed our boss warned us that our small print shop wouldn’t be able to compete against mexico and within a year the doors were closed.

Today we have an empty run down industrial area with retail, resturants and welfare. Our unemploment rate topped 11% this week.

I’m sure some genius will be along soon to inform me that it’s all because of Jenny Granholm and unions. While not helpful they’re far from the only reason. The fact is that for every union job “conservatives” manage to eliminate, we lose a dozen or more non union jobs.

Someone needs to explain to me, why both union and non union jobs managed to thrive here in Michigan till the plummet following the passage of NAFTA.

The cold war forced us to be a serious country. It kept us honest. It kept us nationalistic

NAFTA could only be passed after the Soviet Union collapsed
Once we didn't have to devote so much resources to defense (the peace dividend) the powers that be found out that they could make more money investing in consumer companies like Wal Mart instead of producer companies like GM and Ford

So ship production down to Mexico and after that China  ..... That's great for the wealthy investors or any investor who wants in on the racket such as pension funds and the Harvard endowment. Only problem is it is unsustainable and our current economic crash proves it. The much vaunted "consumer economy" was always a lie and this is its endgame

32 posted on 02/01/2009 6:19:34 AM PST by dennisw (white trash philosophizer)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: dennisw
We are a super power when it come to importing.

The United State's appetite for goods hasn't got anything to do with free trade.

I want the choice to buy whatever I please (legal goods of course)...I don't need the government telling me what can be sold and what can't.

34 posted on 02/01/2009 6:24:51 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: Jim Noble
I differ from most of you here, in that I am a radical protectionist. I favor American autarky, a continental economy depending on resource exploitation and domestic production, and walls at the southern border, 

We can do it. The only thing we really need from abroad are a few strategic metals
We could have pulled this off a lot easier 10-20 years ago because we had more industrial base intact
Think the "free traitors" for that.

But it could be done
We have vast coal deposits and natural gas to exploit
We could get rid of foreign oil if we did

35 posted on 02/01/2009 6:26:59 AM PST by dennisw (white trash philosophizer)
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To: A.Hun
I want the choice to buy whatever I please (legal goods of course)...I don't need the government telling me what can be sold and what can't.

I I I me me me mine mine mine....The pathetic war cry of the libertarian. Your absolute faith in free markets is as misguided as the communist devotion to the state. And amusingly enough both ideologies are atheist at heart. Lenin Marx and Ayn Rand were godless atheists

36 posted on 02/01/2009 6:31:27 AM PST by dennisw (white trash philosophizer)
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To: iopscusa

Obama and Pelosi are just paying off the unions at our expense...unfortunately, we are going to have to get used to it.

It wouldn’t be so bad if the economy wasn’t in the tank. I have begun to believe that Pelosi is purposefully destroying it.


37 posted on 02/01/2009 6:33:38 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: A.Hun

What most people really object to when they object to a free market is that it is so hard for them to shape it to their own will. The market gives people what the people want instead of what other people think they ought to want. At the bottom of many criticisms of the market economy is really lack of belief in freedom itself. The essence of political freedom is the absence of coercion of one man by his fellow men. The fundamental danger to political freedom is the concentration of power. The existence of a large measure of power in the hands of a relatively few individuals enables them to use it to coerce their fellow men. Preservation of freedom requires either the elimination of power where that is possible, or its dispersal where it cannot be eliminated. It essentially requires a system of checks and balances, like that explicitly incorporated in our Constitution . . . .
—Milton Friedman


38 posted on 02/01/2009 6:34:30 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Havoc has been back since September. Or was it April?)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Justified or not, they would feel that they have to reciprocate. I think there will be some escalation back and forth.

So what
We ran a 700 billion dollar trade deficit last year
I kinda think a trade war kinda works out better for us

Take that Smoot Hawley act .....we probably ran trade surpluses back then so it hurt us more than others

39 posted on 02/01/2009 6:36:55 AM PST by dennisw (white trash philosophizer)
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To: dennisw

So you are saying you want the government to control what goods can and cannot be sold? Do you really want the government to protect your job at my expense?

Doesn’t seem very conservative to me.


40 posted on 02/01/2009 6:45:15 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

When times get tough, the average worker always runs to protectionism. Its just human nature. The fact that it hurts them in the long term is forgotten.

People that realize that have to stand up and remind them.


41 posted on 02/01/2009 6:51:37 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: dennisw

Wake up, there is a reason the high tech companies(IBM, HP, etc.) are shifting attention, assets (read research, manufacturing, technology centers, etc.) to the Middle East, Asia and parts of South America. The executives in Davos see power and money moving south and east. They go where the MONEY is...those attending Davos don’t give a fig about the US recovery except to the extent it allows them to suck out more $$$.


42 posted on 02/01/2009 6:53:10 AM PST by NHResident
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To: A.Hun

So you are saying you want the government to control what goods can and cannot be sold?.........

As far as imports, yes
Slap tariffs on them
I don’t like 700 billion dollar trade deficits


43 posted on 02/01/2009 6:56:06 AM PST by dennisw (white trash philosophizer)
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To: NHResident

I agree. Just look how Haliburton relocated to Dubai with nary a thought


44 posted on 02/01/2009 6:57:10 AM PST by dennisw (white trash philosophizer)
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To: dennisw
I don’t like 700 billion dollar trade deficits

Then buy less. Tariffs are artificial bandaids to favor special interests.

45 posted on 02/01/2009 7:01:51 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Rescind NAFTA
46 posted on 02/01/2009 7:05:00 AM PST by chainsaw
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To: chainsaw

More government interference with trade, for the children!!!


47 posted on 02/01/2009 7:10:16 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Havoc has been back since September. Or was it April?)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Days earlier, US Treasury chief Tim Geithner called China a "currency manipulator" ...

Pretty funny coming from Tim "TurboTax" Geithner.

48 posted on 02/01/2009 7:15:56 AM PST by 6SJ7 (Atlas Shrugged Mode: ON)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I’m warming to the idea of buying american and hiring american workers.

In the end it will be the USA that brings the world out of the current mess.

the way this will happen will be consistantly low energy prices and american workers working more productively and making more money.


49 posted on 02/01/2009 7:26:30 AM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Oh and one other thing. the technology is coming that will collapse the cost of water desalination and transport—making it economically feasable to turn the world’s deserts green and double the size of the habitable planet.


50 posted on 02/01/2009 7:27:55 AM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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