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Eluana Transferred Late Tuesday Night to Clinic for Death by Dehydration
LifeSiteNews ^ | 2/3/09 | Hilary White

Posted on 02/03/2009 11:07:44 AM PST by wagglebee

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To: Drango

Based upon the ABSENCE of a clear medical directive we must err on the side of life.


51 posted on 02/07/2009 4:36:20 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: Drango; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; 8mmMauser; Sun; Dante3
You are torturing her earthly body against her family wishes and perhaps her own.

So, she's NOT in a vegetative state and she CAN feel things?

And YOU believe that giving someone food and water is torture, but dehydrating someone to the point that their tongue cracks open, their eyes bleed and blood pours out of every bodily orifice IS NOT torture?

When the victim cannot speak, thousand of years of common law, and recent civil law says the family will is supreme.

Please show me the "thousands of years" of common law that condone euthanasia.

Worse, you are using a false theology to do extend your macabre beliefs to her.

No, it is the the beliefs of deathbots like YOU that is macabre.

I pray to God that you are nowhere near my family when our end time comes.

Based on your attitude I can only pray that you are nowhere near ANYONE who is disabled.

53 posted on 02/07/2009 4:52:16 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
I'm guessing that she DOES NOT want to be murdered like this:

Just for the sake of clarity, the poor woman in the photo you posted, that I now see has been removed by the Admin Mod, is not Terri Schiavo, as many people assume because of the resemblance, but Lisa McPherson.

Lisa McPherson was not under the care of any medical professionals at the time of her death but under the so called “care” of Scientologists.
54 posted on 02/07/2009 5:03:32 PM PST by Caramelgal (My employer had a room for us to watch the Obamination. I, on the other hand had actual work to do.)
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To: Caramelgal

Lisa McPherson was started and dehydrated to death, just like Terri was. It DOES NOT take any sort of medical expertise to dehydrate someone to death, what it does take is a complete lake of human decency.


55 posted on 02/07/2009 5:07:25 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: wagglebee
No, it is the the beliefs of deathbots like YOU that is macabre.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a "deathbot". Your arrogance is appalling.

57 posted on 02/07/2009 5:11:57 PM PST by Jean S
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To: Drango; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; 8mmMauser; Sun; Dante3
HERE is what our Lord, Jesus Christ had to say about starving and dehydrating the sick:

31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
-- Matthew 25:31-46

58 posted on 02/07/2009 5:13:05 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Caramelgal; wagglebee
I don't see that any posts have been removed on this thread.

Is this the photo you're talking about?

Starvation/dehydration isn't pretty, is it?

59 posted on 02/07/2009 5:19:28 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: Jean S
Not everyone who disagrees with you is a "deathbot". Your arrogance is appalling.

Do you have a less "arrogant" term for people who support the culture of death?

60 posted on 02/07/2009 5:24:05 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Drango

You have have that backwards. Starvation and dehydration, together or separate, are torture. There is a reason we don’t execute guilty people this way. It’s inhumane. How much more inhumane is it to torture an innocent person to death this way?


61 posted on 02/07/2009 5:24:37 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee

I think they like to call them “choosers” or something like that.


62 posted on 02/07/2009 5:25:16 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee

You know, in the spirit of “choosing” “vegetables” to death.


63 posted on 02/07/2009 5:25:44 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: Drango

Blaspheme much?

Providing the loving care that God demands will in no way prevent the loved one from going to Heaven.


65 posted on 02/07/2009 5:28:37 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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Comment #66 Removed by Moderator

To: wagglebee
Do you have a less "arrogant" term for people who support the culture of death?

Your problem is this, you label anyone who disagrees with you, even on one small detail, as a deathbot or a supporter of the culture of death, I've seen you use other labels too.

It makes you look stupid and unable to rationally argue your position, you resort to namecalling instead.

67 posted on 02/07/2009 5:31:31 PM PST by Jean S
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To: Drango

What is your problem? Our obeying God’s commandments does not cause the beneficiaries of God’s love to burn in hell. You should give serious thought to your behavior though.


68 posted on 02/07/2009 5:31:52 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: Jean S
Your problem is this, you label anyone who disagrees with you, even on one small detail,

Euthanasia is not "one small detail" of the culture of death, they have succeeded in one billion abortion deaths worldwide in the past century, euthanasia is the next plank of their agenda.

69 posted on 02/07/2009 5:34:06 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Remember how violent they became while they were demanding the brutal murder of Terri Schiavo? Well, here we go again. It’s an insatiable bloodlust.


70 posted on 02/07/2009 5:35:28 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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Comment #71 Removed by Moderator

To: wagglebee; markomalley
Thomas Perrelli, Obama's Associate Attorney General nominee, is known mostly for his role in defending Terri Schiavo's husband, wherein he worked alongside prominent euthanasia attorney George Felos and the Florida ACLU to withdraw life-sustaining treatment for Mrs. Schiavo.

Third-highest post in the Justice Department. Bears repeating (from markomalley's thread).

72 posted on 02/07/2009 5:38:59 PM PST by firebrand
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To: firebrand; markomalley; BykrBayb

I find it ironic that the FReepers who supported Terri’s murder no longer like Perrelli now that he works for Obama, though they still support his agenda.


73 posted on 02/07/2009 5:41:33 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I can think of apter words than “ironic.” How about “crazy”?


74 posted on 02/07/2009 5:46:28 PM PST by firebrand
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To: firebrand

And hypocritical.


75 posted on 02/07/2009 5:47:24 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; wagglebee
I don't see that any posts have been removed on this thread. Is this the photo you're talking about?

Well I stand corrected then. When I refreshed the thread however, I would swear to you that the photos were gone with the “comment removed by moderator”.

Now I don’t see any “comment removed by moderator” on this thread so either it was my error or the mod changed his/her mind or was over ruled. In any case:

Lisa McPherson was started and dehydrated to death, just like Terri was. It DOES NOT take any sort of medical expertise to dehydrate someone to death, what it does take is a complete lake of human decency.

No, the Lisa McPherson case is not “just like” the Shiavo case. Lisa McPherson was denied medical care by her Scientologist handlers. She was mentally ill and not in a coma or vegetative state. She was denied proper medical care and was abused and starved to death by some religious wackos.

Posting pictures of Lisa McPherson and drawing comparisons to Terri Shiavo because of the similarly of their physical appearance is rather disingenuous.

My mother in-law, after many years of suffering a slow but progressive terminal illness and infirmity and declining mental capacity and her refusal to eat, was admitted to a long term medical nursing home. Every day that my husband and I visited with her, which was almost daily, she told us how much pain she was in and how tired she was and how much she looked forward to going to Heaven and being reunited with Jesus and her parents and brothers and sisters.

After she suffered a stroke and lapsed into a deep vegetative state, it was actually her doctors who insisted she be placed on a feeding tube and we agreed with that decision at the time.

However, after six years of her being on a feeding tube, being in a vegetative state, moved from one facility to another and another, I can tell you that at the time of her death, my mother in law looked just as bad if not worse than the photos of Lisa McPherson.

We did have a DNR order, one that was ignored by the hospital the first time her heart stopped, resulting in the breaking of several of her ribs and then a bout of pneumonia that put her on a respirator for many weeks.

When she finally did die, while we were saddened by her passing, we were also relived for the end of her suffering. The last years of her life, extended beyond what was merciful or medically reasonable with a feeding tube, resulted in her being in a rigid fetal position, her skin paper thin and full of lesions and abrasions.

The director of the funeral home told us that he had to literally break her bones in order to be able to place her into a coffin. Fortunately that was the last indignity she had to endure.

I am pro-life and against euthanasia or medically assisted suicide. But I am also against prolonging the life of the physical body when it is against the wishes of the patient, their family and medically irresponsible.
76 posted on 02/07/2009 6:09:22 PM PST by Caramelgal (My employer had a room for us to watch the Obamination. I, on the other hand had actual work to do.)
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To: wagglebee

That’s what happens when someone has no beliefs of their own. They believe whatever their keepers tell them to believe. They support murder because they’re told to. They don’t actually submit to God, so they don’t know the difference between right and wrong.


77 posted on 02/07/2009 6:10:51 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: Caramelgal; BykrBayb
Posting pictures of Lisa McPherson and drawing comparisons to Terri Shiavo because of the similarly of their physical appearance is rather disingenuous.

The pictures are posted SOLELY to show what a murder by dehydration looks like.

78 posted on 02/07/2009 6:12:27 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Some of the death cultists have a bloodlust, but some of them are just trying to rationalize having gone along with the murder of someone they cared about, when they were too ignorant to realize what was happening. Rather than admit they were duped, or admit they did something wrong, they try to ease their conscience by convincing others that what they did was right. Heroic even. It’s a sad thing to watch unfolding. Eventually, they go berserk, because they’re forced to see the truth. The longer and harder they fight to hide the truth from themselves and others, the worse it is for them when they finally see.


79 posted on 02/07/2009 6:27:35 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

It’s deja vu all over again.

The pro-dehydration-and-starvation-to-death trolls are out in force tonight.


80 posted on 02/07/2009 6:27:44 PM PST by Deo volente (High Noon, January 20, 2009: Our long national nightmare begins.)
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To: Deo volente

Yep, there’s a real bloodlust in the air.


81 posted on 02/07/2009 6:29:15 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: Deo volente; BykrBayb
The pro-dehydration-and-starvation-to-death trolls are out in force tonight.

They smell blood and can't contain themselves.

82 posted on 02/07/2009 6:29:28 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
The pictures are posted SOLELY to show what a murder by dehydration looks like.

OK. Fine. But then be honest about it and preface that is a picture of a mentally unstable but otherwise physically healthy woman who was denied competent medical care and was starved and dehydrated to death by some Scientology wackos and not a picture necessarily representative of what Teri Shiavo looked like at the time of her death.

Here is another picture of what starvation and dehydration looks like SOLELY to show what a murder by dehydration looks like.




83 posted on 02/07/2009 6:30:21 PM PST by Caramelgal (My employer had a room for us to watch the Obamination. I, on the other hand had actual work to do.)
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To: Caramelgal

Terri Schiavo WAS otherwise healthy. Her life expectancy was another thirty years. Furthermore, at NO TIME has anyone ever attempted to imply that the pictures of Lisa McPherson are of Terri.


84 posted on 02/07/2009 6:34:55 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Caramelgal; wagglebee
I think I understand what you're looking for.

Here's a picture of a brain injured but otherwise healthy woman (not really, both Lisa and Terri had other injuries, unrelated to their deaths by dehydration aside from the fact that their injuries made them vulnerable to those who wanted them dead), who was denied competent medical care and was starved and dehydrated to death by some wackos and not a picture necessarily representative of what Teri Shiavo (whoever that was) looked like at the time of her death, but most assuredly representative of what Terri Schiavo was subjected to. As a matter of fact, the description of this woman could accurately be applied to Terri Schiavo.


85 posted on 02/07/2009 6:39:49 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: Drango

Have you stood by and watched someone die from starvation and dehydration???? It is awful! There is NO MERCY in it. NONE! It took 4 weeks for a lady to die once they took her feeding tube away....it was awful! She deserves to die with peace and dignity and God being the deciding factor, not a family member who has decided her life is no longer of value. Watch someone die like that and I am sure you would reconsider. As was stated earlier, there was no written directive.


86 posted on 02/07/2009 8:31:36 PM PST by MountainFlower (There but by the grace of God go I.)
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: Drango
"Pharisees that will keep us from joining you in heaven"
The only thing that will keep anyone from getting to heaven is that they did not choose to believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior. No person or thing can keep you from heaven except yourself and your choice. To imply that any other person, even someone here on FR, or anyone else could prevent you from attaining heaven is against the Word of God. "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I John 14:6.

Please DO continue to value the life that God has given you and your family. Euthanasia, assisted suicide and abortion all de-value life. It is only for GOD to decide when it is a person's time to die, not for man. Anything other than God's hand is murder as He states clearly in the 10 commandments, "THOU SHALT NOT KILL". He doesn't say, "Hmmmmm. Wait. What are the circumstances? Oh! Oh! THAT! Well, in that case, maybe..." He stated it simply and succinctly in 4 words. There is no gray area, only black and white. No excuses. No exceptions. THOU SHALT NOT KILL. That's it.

I don't see anything Pharisaical about that.

88 posted on 02/07/2009 8:51:04 PM PST by MountainFlower (There but by the grace of God go I.)
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To: Caramelgal; BykrBayb; wagglebee
...But I am also against prolonging the life of the physical body when it is against the wishes of the patient, their family and medically irresponsible.

It's easy to play God... and have all the answers.

God makes the call, but we just want to hang around (or our family wants it, selfishly, without faith!)! With modern technology, we can easily keep a body warm... but... is that what God wants? Does the ability to keep a body warm make them whole? Is it God's will we are trying to defeat?

I have a "living will", but have made my daughter assure me that I can be left to die. I know in Whom I believe, and am persuaded that He will keep me... Are you? Do you have faith in a life beyond this one? Is God sovereign?

Inquiring minds want to know!

89 posted on 02/07/2009 9:01:08 PM PST by WVKayaker ("There are no facts, only interpretations." -Nietze)
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To: Drango
Perhaps it would be more effective if you prayed for everyone here whose views you dissent. I do know that doing so will at least prevent bitterness from reigning in ones heart, from personal experience. I have not called you a name, so I do not understand where you feel you have the right to label me a Pharisee. What about what I have written is Pharasaical?

Father God, please open the eyes of those who cannot see, so they understand and comprehend Your truth. Help them to see that there is still purpose and a plan, Your plan, for the life they think has no more value. Help them to also see and know that You have the power to raise up anyone who is comatose, for You have and are doing it all around the world. Father God, it is for You to choose where and when You will perform these miracles. Lord, open eyes to see how You are using Eluana for a part of Your plan and Your purposes. She is touching lives where she is, at this moment, in ways that never would have happened had she not been in this condition. Father God, we celebrate Eluana's LIFE! Lord, protect her. Keep Your guardian and warring angels round about her to protect her. Let it be only Your hand, Father God, Your timing that brings her life to an end. In the course of this Lord, may Your Name be honored and glorified as many hearts and lives are turned to You. We thank and praise You Father God for the love You have for Eluana, and for each one of Your children. We thank You that You loved each of us so much that You sacrificed Your ONLY SON to save our souls! You know the pain of loss. WE cannot fathom Your infinite love!! Holy Father, we thank You for life and breath that You give us each moment of each day, until it is our time to die. May Your Name be honored and glorified in Eluana's life and death, in Your time. In Jesus Name, AMEN.

90 posted on 02/07/2009 9:05:26 PM PST by MountainFlower (There but by the grace of God go I.)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


91 posted on 02/07/2009 9:10:11 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: WVKayaker; wagglebee

You can wrap murder in all the lies you like, but it’s still murder to deprive a person of food and water until he/she starves and dehydrates to death. Food and water are not modern technology. Feeding tubes have been around for hundreds of years. Antibiotics are relatively modern, but that doesn’t make them evil.

Obeying God’s commandments is not playing God.

Providing food and water to someone is not selfish.

Providing clothing, bedding, and shelter to allow someone to enjoy a comfortable temperature is not evil.

God’s will is not for us to murder each other.

Leaving someone to die is not in line with God’s will.

I wonder if you really do know in whom you believe, whose will you are promoting, and who will keep you. If you truly knew, and were aware of the fact that it’s not too late, I’d like to think you’d choose to serve God. But I guess not everyone does.

I have faith in the everlasting life provided by God, not by the one who demands the blood of innocents.

Do you have one of the inquiring minds who wants to know whether or not God is sovereign? If you accept Him as your personal savior, then you’ll know, and you won’t have to ask me. Yes, God is sovereign.

One the commandments He issued to us forbids murder. He didn’t issue any commandments requiring us commit murder.

Everyone dies eventually. We don’t have to be murdered to go to Heaven.


92 posted on 02/07/2009 9:34:10 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: MountainFlower
What a beautiful and deeply meaningful prayer!

"Let it be only Your hand, Father God, Your timing that brings her life to an end."

EXACTLY!
93 posted on 02/07/2009 9:42:59 PM PST by Deo volente (High Noon, January 20, 2009: Our long national nightmare begins.)
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To: MountainFlower

Thank you for sharing your prayer to The One True God. Anyone who calls God’s word “false teachings,” and prays to some entity to silence God’s word to help promote murder, is not praying to The One True God.


94 posted on 02/07/2009 9:48:41 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: WVKayaker; BykrBayb
With modern technology, we can easily keep a body warm... but... is that what God wants?

I'm confused, since when is FOOD and WATER "modern technology"?

Perhaps you should read the Bible passage I posted in #58, God describes EXACTLY what He wants.

95 posted on 02/08/2009 7:56:27 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb
I wonder if you really do know in whom you believe, whose will you are promoting, and who will keep you. If you truly knew, and were aware of the fact that it’s not too late, I’d like to think you’d choose to serve God. But I guess not everyone does.

Nice to know you are not my judge! Your spirit of discernment is lacking a little... and your zeal is prone to overwhelming God's will!

At what point is God no longer Sovereign? When does the need to keep a body warm, when the soul is looking for it's rest, become the goal? How is it compassionate to see someone lay inert for years, while you (?) hope for him/her to arise and walk? Where is the faith that reaches out and commands the body to be whole? Why is it so much easier to provide a feeding tube? Why is it murder if none is given, or if it removed to allow God's will? Oh, I forgot, you are apparently an arbiter of God's will.

Typing Scripture is easy, but testing faith requires another level of discernment! Faith without works... or lack of faith...which is worse? Gnashing of teeth changes nothing. Try sack cloth and ashes.

Read about Smith Wigglesworth and get back to me. I haven't arrived yet, but his is a pattern to emulate.

...As I look into the 12th chapter of Acts, I find that the people were praying all night for Peter to come out of prison. They had a zeal but seem to have been lacking in faith. They were to be commended for their zeal in spending their time in prayer without ceasing, but their faith, evidently, did not measure up to such a marvelous answer. Rhoda had more faith than the rest of them. When the knock came to the door, she ran to it, and the moment she heard Peter's voice, she ran back again with joy saying that Peter stood before the gate. And all the people said, “You are mad. It isn't so.” But she constantly affirmed that it was even so... -God-given Faith

96 posted on 02/08/2009 10:36:03 AM PST by WVKayaker ("There are no facts, only interpretations." -Nietze)
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To: WVKayaker

It has nothing to do with judging you. I want everyone to know about God’s love. I’d like for you to accept His love. When and if you do, His light will shine through you, and be visible to others, just as you are able to recognize His followers, so you know who to verbally attack for loving Him and following His commandments. You’re not the only one who can recognize the presence of God. If you would only accept Him as your master, you’d see more than just His presence. Just invite Him in, and you’ll see.


97 posted on 02/08/2009 12:17:41 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: WVKayaker

Btw, providing warmth to another living person is part of God’s love. Denying comfort to another, in pursuit of their untimely death, is something your master should never ask of you, and you should never comply with such a request.


98 posted on 02/08/2009 12:21:09 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee

Have you noticed the deathbots are no longer satisfied with death by starvation/dehydration? They’re now pushing to withdraw warmth, leaving them to die of exposure.


99 posted on 02/08/2009 12:32:37 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

When they are reminded that food and water are BASIC HUMAN NEEDS and not “extraordinary medical technology,” they change tactics.

NONE of them will ever respond to the portion of Matthew 25 that I posted because that is Christ’s exact Words, NOT some amateur guess about His Will.


100 posted on 02/08/2009 12:59:08 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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