Posted on 02/04/2009 1:31:48 PM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
More than a month after Sam Salter wound up in the Ramsey County jail for two nights, the 40-year-old adjunct college instructor from Hudson, Wis., is still fuming. "You feel totally helpless," he said.
At the end of a New Year's Eve traffic stop on Interstate 94 in St. Paul, State Patrol Sgt. Carrie Rindal rammed Salter's 2001 Toyota Sienna van, causing $1,500 damage to his vehicle, and arrested him at gunpoint while his three children, ages 2, 3 and 6, sat in the van. His wife had to pick up the kids as he was taken to jail.
Rindal said Salter was attempting to flee. He said he was merely looking for a safe place to pull over.
The Ramsey County attorney's office declined to charge Salter after reviewing the evidence, including a video of the stop. "It was our belief there was insufficient evidence to prove that the suspect was knowingly fleeing police, and that is what he had been arrested for," said Paul Gustafson, a county attorney spokesman.
(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...
Word to the cop-apologists on FR: Get rid of the Blue Wall, or you'll have no respect at all.
Not to be sexist, sometimes the women cops are the worst, because they seem to have large chips on their shoulders.
Cops as a group suck because of this one thing, circle the wagon no cop is dirty they absolutely refuse to police each other.
...two sets of rule books...
one for the ubermenschen
and one for the untermenschen.
chauvinist pig!! heheheheeeee1
You see blue lights and you pull over. That spot right there is really good. You don’t need to hunt for a better space because they are all the same.
If you need help, practice with a friend.
Agreed...
Cops that engage in this is the manifestation of a government out of control...
I’ve got to ask, what are you gonna do when the messiah tells you to take our guns? How snarky are you going to be, then?
Sounds like he made the first mistake by not pulling over within a few hundred yards. However she overreacted in my opinion. He deserves reasonable compensation and she deserves a fitting repremand.
That said I’m not going to go off on some nutjob rant about stormtroopers or anything.
Everyone knows that you pull over right away and you stay in the car.
Otherwise, the cops think you’re planning to shoot them.
Sorry but you are 100% wrong about that. That is exactly how cops get killed when people immediately pull over where there is inadequate room on the shoulder or traffic is too heavy in that location. Every time some cop gets killed that way, the public is reminded to drive to a safe location before pulling over.
“Cops as a group suck because of this one thing, circle the wagon no cop is dirty they absolutely refuse to police each other.”
It’s not that they refuse to police each other, it’s because the good ones want to return to their wife and kids at the end of their shift.
If the good ones were to drop a dime on the few rotten ones then back up may be a little late in coming when it’s really needed, or they’ll look the other way and allow some street thug to just shoot and kill the dime dropper.
But I guess a concept such as that is too simple for those who automatically assume that all cops are dirty.
The sow should be cited for unnecessarilly damaging the van as well as her police cruiser. Ramming is something which should be reserved for suspected felons or people presenting a clear and immediate danger. A man in a van with his wife and tots who made a freaking improper lane change does not fit either category.
Ramming a car full or small kids... sounds like a great way to get shot. A lot.
I get really tired of the ‘I’m as tough as the boys’ routine.
They typically have horrible attitudes.
Plus, ossifer Carrie Rindal is an ugly bull dyke who hates men and kids.
Actually, if there isn’t a good place to pull over you turn your hazard lights on, and you slow down until you can find a good safe place.
They will launch an investigation by an attorney working for the department of public safety... lol
Cops are Cops. Good, bad, indifferent. They are people. The root cause is that we have empowered the police, through our elected representatives to pull people over. It’s really that simple. If “you people” would quit empowering your government we would not be having this problem. Seat belt laws. Helmet Laws. Cell Phone laws. Speed enforcement for a law created by a traffic engineer 20 years ago instead of driving for conditions. You people want an armed, dangerous, and plentiful police force. So that’s what you get. This poor sap just got caught up in “you people” and your desire to control other peoples behavior. “You People” decided long before I was born to make traffic laws a matter of social contract in order to circumvent normal due process. Hence we all drive in an adversarial environment with one eye on the speedometer and the other on the look out for LEO.
If you want to get rid of the adversarial relationship tough luck, cause that’s what your neighbors demand. Just wait as your neighbors get irritated about something else they see happen, and agitate for yet another new law to be imposed on their neighbors at the point of a gun. Most people on FR are standing in line waiting to add new and exciting means of extracting money and good behavior from fellow citizens at the point of a gun. Cause once the mechanism is in place to impose on fellow citizens their really is no end to what you can do with a a cop, a judge and a city council.
“Hello? 911? Some crazy woman dressed as a cop just rammed my van. I think she might have been on drugs. I had to shoot her to get her to stop waving a gun at my family. Yeah she is dead. My wife and kids are fine though. Please send a real cop to clean up the mess. Thanks.”
I disagree. Police departments around where I live had made it widely known that it's OK to keep going to a spot that you think is safe, especially if you think the cop may be an impostor.
Plus, I think ossifer Carrie Rindal looks like an ugly bull dyke who hates men and kids.
Umm.. No there have been folks knocked in the head by folks who used that trick to find victims,you pull over where you're sure your safe
Wow, so that’s your defense of cops and cop culture? Yikes! They better stay quiet or the bad cops make the good cops dead? Damn. We need to de-fund this bunch of jokers most quickly.
Yes he could have done better and used caution lights and slowed down a lot quicker before he acutally did.
The police woman on the other hand should have recognized the drivers intention when he was pulling over his car. She obviously saw this because I saw it and there was no doubt that the guy was pulling over and had slowed practically to a stall when she rammed him. Luckly she didn’t hastily shoot him like she hastily rammed him. She was not at the top of her game in this incident either.
Did you see the car that both of them passed on the freeway that pulled over and stopped right there to get out of the way?
I have had high regard for police until I moved to Minnesota.
I have been pulled over for traffic violations in the past in Houston. And I have looked for a safe place to pull over, after acknowledging to the officer that I have seen his lights. I have never gotten any static for that.
I have not been pulled over for traffic violations here in Minnesota, however I have not been impressed with their performances during “disturbing the peace” and domestic violence calls. Add to that the response when I called in after seeing a body off to the side of a trail.
No, you have it wrong. We don’t need to screen for power hunger egomaniacs, we need to be very very circumspect of empowering one class of humans to oversee another. It’s hardly ever a good idea except as a matter of life or death. Unfortunately it’s just a matter of routine. When I talk to LEO’s or even just government employees and functionaries I see that a vast gulf divides my view of the world and their view of the world. Namely I want to go about my business without contact with the gubmnt, and they want to regulate, oversee, fiddle with, manipulate, observe, tax every facet of life big and small cause that’s what good gubmnt looks like.
“You see blue lights and you pull over. That spot right there is really good. You don’t need to hunt for a better space because they are all the same.
I was traveling on I-94 at MSP last summer. There was on going construction in many parts, with barriers, barrels, closed exits, closed shoulders etc.
According to your mandate, a motorist should risk his life, and the life of his children, for a traffic stop, inspite of the immediate hazards putting them all at risk.
Speaks volumes regarding your inability to make reasoned judgments when dealing with immediate threats to the safety of others.
Nice post.
You make piles-o-sense.
Could any cop really believe that someone was trying to evade them with a 2001 Toyota Sienna van?
“Add to that the response when I called in after seeing a body off to the side of a trail.”
OK...
Now you have to tell that story.
You obviously never watched “World’s Wildest Police Videos”. I have seen too many cars pulled over to the side of an interstate highway get plowed by cars traveling at highway speeds. One police officer was crushed between two cars and lost both of his legs. If someone wants to take the exit and get on a surface street, they should be allowed to. Sometimes the next exit is another interstate, so you have to go past that. Unless the car is speeding, a police officer should assume that a car traveling the speed limit with his blinker on wants to get off of the highway first. Is an illegal lane change ticket more important than keeping your legs?
You see blue lights and you pull over. That spot right there is really good. You don’t need to hunt for a better space because they are all the same.
Really. On an Interstate? Sorry I pull over when it is SAFE for me to do so. If the cop can not handle that, then that is his or her problem.
Oh and by the way I wasa Patrol officer for several years. I preffered people pull off the highways into parking lots etc if possible for theor safety and mine.....
don’t forget hands on the steering wheel.
I fail to see how your "defence" is much better than the original. So, the cops that aren't dirty are instead cowards who won't stand up and do what's right because it might cost them down the line?
As I suspected, it is in a congested area of St. Paul and not exactly the best place to pull over for a conversation with a police officer. Remember, he is also driving a van and is, thus, sitting higher and can see far enough ahead to see a safer place to stop.
From the time of the initial lights flashing (when he is in the left lane) until the final stop, there is a total of 1 minute 45 seconds on the clock. So the screeching sow is not following him for an excessively long time. Once he realizes he is the one being followed and starts pulling to the right, the car in the right lane pulls over possibly to get out of the way and possibly because the van driver isn't giving them enough room. I don't know if this was the reason for the improper lane change citation, but it could have been.
What is clear to me is that the lane change was made to comply with the demand to pull over, so I still cannot see the slightest excuse for ramming the vehicle. This was like James Harrison hitting the Cardinal's player after he was already down. Somebody needs to throw a flag on the sow.
Yes, it looked like the right shoulder was full of snow piles. Was he supposed to stop on the freeway? Good way to die. Enough cops get hit while on the shoulder as it is, let alone parked ON the freeway. If I had my kids in the car, I would have done the same.
Why she had to hit him when he was almost stopped is another question. Maybe the cop was thinking, "Cool! I get to try that maneuver they showed me for fleeing motorists! Since he's only going 5 mph, it should be pretty safe to try."
The end of the video said they dropped the charges but did ticket him for changing lanes improperly. He didn't signal when he went to the left, I guess. But he still has a messed up car.
So, you're fine with cops getting run over because of a narrow shoulder? What are you, some kind of cop-hater?
Salter should be suing State Patrol Sgt. Carrie Rindal for all she has and for false arrest. I would not put my kid’s safety on the line trying to pull over on that busy stretch of I-94
Well the Red Coats were governed and empowered by a tyrant and the other side of the Atlantic. Unfortunately your neighbors are the ones who have empowered our government. Were stuck with it. If you don’t believe me start advocating amongst your neighbors for a reform of traffic law. Here is what you will hear: “The most dangerous thing the average person does is get behind the wheel of a car. Therefore for your safety and the safety of the people around you a strong and visible police presence is necessary.” To that I say, “I am willing to accept a higher level of risk in return to less government intrusion.”
That’s when you will get the look of a cow chewing cud in return for your argument.
All true if the driver wants to look like he’s luring a cop to a dark street to shoot him/her and thus end up in cuffs.
Exactly. As in Medieval times, we are the serfs. The police are the Knights.
The sooner we accept that, the better off we'll be. Or, so say the Knights.
I am getting sick and tired of hearing that "officer safety" is the number one priority of our law enforcement. We give them special privileges and powers and pay them very well because we expect them to put "citizen safety" above their own. I was a combat infantryman and knew that there were often mission objectives with greater importance than soldier safety. If the "popo" don't want to accept that risk / reward proposition, they should get a job without the shiny badge, hand cannon and cool uniform.
I'm just glad that the family dog wasn't along for the ride.
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