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Ultraconserved sequences pose megaproblems for evolutionary theory
Journal of Creation ^ | Peter Borger and Royal Truman

Posted on 02/05/2009 7:26:33 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

According to Darwinian theory, in the past we had a common ancestor with baboons, further back with bananas and still further with bacteria. This dogma has spread like a ‘meme’, which is a contagious idea that propagates in a similar way as a virus by infecting brains, according to inventor of the word, Richard Dawkins.1 In 2002, Roy Britten dispelled the first monkey meme that human and chimpanzee DNA sequences are 98.5% identical.2 He showed that when indelmutations were also taken into account, the difference suddenly became about 5%. The fact that chimpanzee genomes are about 10% larger than that of humans, a detail few people are aware of, raises the obvious question how a mere 5% difference, not to mention only 1%, could be mathematically even possible...

(Excerpt) Read more at creationontheweb.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 85; absurd; baboons; bacteria; banana; chen; chimpanzee; creation; crevo; dataset; dna; evolution; genome; human; indelmutations; intelligentdesign; larger; meme; microrna; mirna; mrna; oldearthspeculation; rajewsky; richarddawkins; roybritten; rrna; taxa; trna; ultraconserved

1 posted on 02/05/2009 7:26:34 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: gondramB; editor-surveyor; metmom; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; GourmetDan; MrB; valkyry1; ...

ping!


2 posted on 02/05/2009 7:27:27 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Popcorn is in the microwave. ;-)


3 posted on 02/05/2009 7:31:26 PM PST by doc1019 (Obama, a child in an adult sandbox.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

“The fact that chimpanzee genomes are about 10% larger than that of humans, a detail few people are aware of...”

I’ve seen chimps at the zoo, and I’m sure mine are larger.


4 posted on 02/05/2009 7:31:37 PM PST by Eccl 10:2 (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem - Ps 122:6)
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To: Eccl 10:2

LOL


5 posted on 02/05/2009 7:33:00 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Eccl 10:2
“The fact that chimpanzee genomes are about 10% larger than that of humans, a detail few people are aware of...”

Uh I don't know what how large a chimp's genome is has to do with anything.

I can only assume that the author of the article assumes that people assume that larger genome = smarter animal. Which nobody does.

I mean, old computers used to be really big-- does that mean they're faster than a new laptop? No.

6 posted on 02/05/2009 7:39:37 PM PST by exist
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To: exist

The corn genome has twice as many genes as the human genome. As far as intelligence goes, size doesn’t matter.


7 posted on 02/05/2009 7:44:09 PM PST by AZLiberty (I hope Obama changes.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

If this was written for the general public, then the authors failed miserably. Sorta like a lot of the stuff written by history professors.


8 posted on 02/05/2009 7:52:56 PM PST by olrtex (()
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To: exist
"I can only assume that the author of the article assumes that people assume that larger genome = smarter animal."

Bad Assume. - The author was musing over the contradiction: A genome that is 10% larger has to be more than 5% different.

9 posted on 02/05/2009 8:00:30 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: olrtex

It wasn’t written for the general public. The Journal of Creation is their technical journal. Their magazine for the lay-public is titled Creation Magazine. Here is a sample issue:

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/1331/


10 posted on 02/05/2009 8:04:37 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: AZLiberty

“As far as intelligence goes, size doesn’t matter.”

Yeah. That’s what the girls say around boys, except in messy breakups. Amongst themselves . . .


11 posted on 02/05/2009 8:10:53 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: exist

Nothing so complicated as that.

The point is that if the Chimp genone is 10% larger than the Human one, then it isn’t possible that there is less than a 5% difference in the two sets.

If I have 100 coins, and you have 110 coins, it is impossible for stack of coins to be 95% identical, because even if they are all pennies, your stack will have 10 pennies where I don’t have any, and will in fact be 10% different from mine.

Whether that distinction has any real VALUE in the discussion is another question entirely.


12 posted on 02/05/2009 8:14:20 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: GodGunsGuts
If this is what passes for a news story some one does not know what fiction is.
13 posted on 02/05/2009 8:34:12 PM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: org.whodat

Do be specific.


14 posted on 02/05/2009 8:36:17 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Where is the part about the cracker heads??
15 posted on 02/05/2009 8:36:18 PM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: org.whodat

That’s where you come into the story.


16 posted on 02/05/2009 8:36:53 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Eccl 10:2
Tell you what, the smallest chimp on the block has testes far larger than the largest pair on any human.

Something is behind that Fur Shur.

17 posted on 02/05/2009 8:37:50 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts
No I was waiting for a picture of the poster that thought this BS was a news story!!
18 posted on 02/05/2009 8:38:33 PM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Self *PING* for later...like I'll have the time to get to it.

Cheers!

19 posted on 02/05/2009 8:39:03 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: exist

What a strange conclusion to draw ~ consider the mustard seed ~ it’s got a genome that’d choke a horse eh!


20 posted on 02/05/2009 8:39:33 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


21 posted on 02/05/2009 8:39:39 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Sure, one copy means one thing, two copies means something else, three copies gives you testes like a champion bore.

Those differences (in counts of the same gene) have to contribute to the computation of raw difference in genomic structure.

22 posted on 02/05/2009 8:41:47 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: grey_whiskers

I know the feeling. If you ever find the time, it’s a good read. All the best—GGG


23 posted on 02/05/2009 8:42:02 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: org.whodat

You might be on to something. There are so many problems with Darwin’s fanciful creation myth that it’s hardly even news any more. Thanks for pointing that out.


24 posted on 02/05/2009 8:44:47 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: exist; GodGunsGuts
I can only assume that the author of the article assumes that people assume that larger genome = smarter animal. Which nobody does.

Then why do you even "make" the assumption? In any case, you apparently miss the fact that something which possesses 10% more than something else cannot be 98.5% nor even 95% identical with that other something. To talk about a subset of the comparison without describing the limits of that comparison is not very useful. I would hazard to suggest that a child's DNA is not close to 100% identical to either of the parents, unless there is some unusual genetics going on. I would also say that a child's DNA would be almost exactly 50% identical to either parent.

25 posted on 02/05/2009 9:47:28 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC

Before we wear ourselves out arguing about this point, what exactly does the author of the article mean when he says that the chimpanzee genome is 10% bigger than the human geonome? Number of chromosomes? Number of DNA pairs? Number of “genes” (i.e. DNA groupings which appear to effect phenotype).

And on the other hand, what exactly does a geneticist mean when he says that the genomes of two species are 50% or 95% or 99% identical? Or 50% or 5% or 1% different?

The fact which I consider more interesting is that there is much greater variation among individuals within the chimpanzee genome than there is among individuals within the human genome, not withstanding the enormously larger numbers and geographic distribution of the human population.
If variation within the genome is propotional to the age of the species, then Chimps have been around a lot longer than humans.

VietVet


26 posted on 02/05/2009 10:20:50 PM PST by VietVet (I am old enough to know who I am and what I believe, and I 'm not inclined to apologize for any of)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Crack does terrible things to your mind, find something meaningful to take your mind off of It.


27 posted on 02/06/2009 5:40:24 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: GodGunsGuts

“.........it’s hardly even news any more.”

He He. Thanks for the ping.


28 posted on 02/06/2009 6:26:30 AM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Here is a chart showing on a log scale the "size" of genomes for various organisms.

It shows that humans fall in the middle of the size range for mammals, and it is clear that the size range is greater than 10%, but it doesn't give the specific numbers for any particular species.

It is clear that genome size is somewhat independent of other measures of evolutionary advancement (by advancement I mean change over time, not getting better).

But as I said before, the argument isn't that size matters, it's that if you have a 10% size difference, you are at least 10% different, and can't possibly be 98% or 95% identical.

Unless you are still in the "most dna is junk dna and shouldn't be counted" camp, I guess, although nobody is in that camp anymore, are they?

29 posted on 02/06/2009 6:43:16 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: org.whodat; GodGunsGuts

That’s what I like about these discussions, all the real science the evolutionists bring to the discussion.


30 posted on 02/06/2009 6:47:16 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
That’s what I like about these discussions, all the real science the evolutionists bring to the discussion.

Thanks you proved my point, the nitwit posted a chat topic in the news section.

31 posted on 02/06/2009 7:26:41 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: VietVet
And on the other hand, what exactly does a geneticist mean when he says that the genomes of two species are 50% or 95% or 99% identical? Or 50% or 5% or 1% different?

It appears you got my point.

32 posted on 02/06/2009 7:30:55 AM PST by AndrewC
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To: demshateGod

:o)


33 posted on 02/06/2009 8:10:47 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: org.whodat

I thought you might see the humor, as your post did mention how drugs could effect one’s brain, which is a scientific statement. :-)

But opportunities missed.....


34 posted on 02/06/2009 8:21:03 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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