Posted on 02/14/2009 10:07:53 AM PST by EternalVigilance
He already has. Obviously that didn't satisfy Keyes.
Why is he asking for Obama's college records as well?
Having a Kenyan citizen as a father disqualifies him from the start.
Really? Can you kindly point out where the Constitution prohibits people with Kenyan fathers from being president?
That was still a civil action (lawsuit). I’m talking about a criminal investigation for fraud/forgery with a prosecuting attorney (district attorney or state attorney general’s office) seeking the subpoena.
Whether it is a civil action or a criminal action doesn’t matter. The point was to get the BC. A subpoena is a subpoena - whether issued for a civil case or a criminal case.
Natural born citizen means having two U.S. citizens as parents. It could be Brazil, Kenya, who cares? His father was a Kenyan, not a U.S. citizen.
There is a difference between a ‘citizen’ and a ‘natural born citizen.” The former can’t be POTUS.
Natural born citizen means having two U.S. citizens as parents. It could be Brazil, Kenya, who cares? His father was a Kenyan, not a U.S. citizen.
There is a difference between a ‘citizen’ and a ‘natural born citizen.” The former can’t be POTUS.
I believe he’s looking for the college records to see what name BHO enrolled himself. It’s within reason that he may have enrolled as “Barry Soetero.” This would raise additional questions as to the nationality he claimed—perhaps Indonesian. Perhaps.
Wrong. Under the 1952 nationality act, which was in effect at the time, he could not have lost his US citizenship even if he changed his name and was adopted by Soetero. Hence his college records are of no relevance to his eligibility.
The most likley reason he doesn't want to release them is that they are probably not very good. He was, after all, by his own admission, using hard drugs at the time.
Natural born citizen means having two U.S. citizens as parents.
That's simply not true. Yet another myth spread around on the internet without any basis fact. How is it that baseless rumors such as this get so many poeple to believe them so quickly?
But you are off point of the first reason I answered you . You said :
I refuse to take any of the lawsuits seriously until someone at least TRIES to subpoena the document in question. Thus far no one has and therefore all these nuisance lawsuits will continue to get thrown out of court, as well they should
None of these lawsuits are criminal matters, so you were referring to the civil cases.When I called you out on it and pointed out that at least one of the civil cases has tried to subpoena the BC, you try to change the subject and start talking about criminal cases. Now since someone in the civil cases did try to subpoena the BC, will you stand by your word and take the cases seriously since someone has tried to subpoena the BC ?
Do you think BHO is lying about his past college years, name, grades, etc? Aren’t you the least bit curious about this?
What do you think the framers meant by “Natural Born Citizen” and why?
If, for example, the North Korean dictator visited the U.S., impregnated a U.S. citizen whore, would the child be a “natural born citizen” in your estimation?
By the way, if he said he was Indonesian, by chance, in his Occidental years, wouldn’t that dual-citizenship status impact his ‘natural born’ status, even a little bit in your eyes?
It may be easier for a DA to get a subpoena issued but first someone has to bring a complaint for fraud and they have to be willing to prosecute it. I don’t know why one hasn’t . Maybe someone has brought a complaint and it is working its way through the channels. Having said that, DA’s and Attorney Generals are all political creatures. Maybe they have reasons of their own not to do anything.
But you are off point of the first reason I answered you . You said :
I refuse to take any of the lawsuits seriously until someone at least TRIES to subpoena the document in question. Thus far no one has and therefore all these nuisance lawsuits will continue to get thrown out of court, as well they should
None of these lawsuits are criminal matters, so you were referring to the civil cases.When I called you out on it and pointed out that at least one of the civil cases has tried to subpoena the BC, you try to change the subject and start talking about criminal cases. Now since someone in the civil cases did try to subpoena the BC, will you stand by your word and take the cases seriously since someone has tried to subpoena the BC ?
Thus far all the civil actions are (in my humble opinion) nusiance suits that have been disposed of all the way to the US Supreme Court without comment by the Justices.
A serious legal action will be a criminal investigation for forgery and/or document fraud and it will be brought by any prosecuting attorney in the nation where Obama’s name appeared on a ballot and it will seek a subpoena for Obama’s long form, vault copy Certificate of Birth.
Thus far I count 15 civil actions brought and 15 civil actions have failed. When you’re 0 for 15, it might be time to consider a different legal strategy or at the very least ADD criminal investigations to the civil actions.
Look at how long it took to impeach and remove Rod Blagojevich without even as much as a criminal trial or conviction, just on the basis of a prosecuting attorney releasing corroborated testimony to the public. People take criminal matters much more seriously.
Yes, it was easy to remove Blago with the prosecuters releasing corroborating testimony to the public. The problem in this case is any bit of corroborating evidence ( school records, Selective service registration, etc. ) he refuses to have released to the public. He won't even allow the verification of the index records ( which is just a "yes" or "no" answer )to the info in the fields of his BC. Don't you find anything odd with that ?
Yes, people take criminal matters more seriously. If one of the cases suceeds in producing a BC and it does not match what he has posted online, you can bet there will be criminal complaints brought by people for fraud.
I'm not sure what you mean. Legally, you are a natural born citizen if you were born a citizen, and that's all the constitution requires for eligibility. That makes dual citizenship is irrelevant.
However, there is no way he could be a dual citizen of Indonesia. Even if he were adopted by Soetero (and no one has proven he was), Indoensian law prohibited him from gaining citizenship unless he renounced his US citizenship. By the same token, US nationality law at the time (the 1952 act) did not allow minors to lose their citizenship. That effectively made it impossible to gain Indoensian citizenship. Period.
For this reason, his Occidental records cannot possibly have any relevance to his eligibility to be president.
I think he's embarrassed by some things he did. I am curious about it. However, the time to demand that stuff was before the election. The American people, apparently, did not care enough to demand it from him and voted for him anyway. Since none of it is relevant to his eligibility to be president, there is no legal basis upon which to demand it from him now.
What do you think the framers meant by “Natural Born Citizen” and why?
Citizen at birth. That is the English common law definition.
If, for example, the North Korean dictator visited the U.S., impregnated a U.S. citizen whore, would the child be a “natural born citizen” in your estimation?
It depends. If he just impregnates her and then leaves, then yes. The child will be born under US jurisdiction, and will be a citizen at birth, making him a natural born citizen.
If he impregnates her and then marries her, putting her and the child under diplomatic immunity, then no, since the child will not be subject US jurisdiction at birth.
This is isn't hard.
15 civil actions haven’t failed. Most have them have not even been brought to trial yet. The first one , the Berg case, was remanded back to the lower court. It is still in play. None of these cases have even been heard on the merits yet.
Yes, it was easy to remove Blago with the prosecuters releasing corroborating testimony to the public. The problem in this case is any bit of corroborating evidence ( school records, Selective service registration, etc. ) he refuses to have released to the public. He won’t even allow the verification of the index records ( which is just a “yes” or “no” answer )to the info in the fields of his BC. Don’t you find anything odd with that ?
Yes, people take criminal matters more seriously. If one of the cases suceeds in producing a BC and it does not match what he has posted online, you can bet there will be criminal complaints brought by people for fraud.
Philip J. Berg demanded that the courts verify Obama’s original birth certificate and other documents proving his American citizenship. Berg’s latest appeal, requesting an injunction to stop the Electoral College from selecting the 44th president, was dismissed by Federal District Court R. Barclay Surrick.
Berg then appealed to the US Supreme Court and after being introduced in conference for a Petition for a Writ of Certiorari by Justice David Souter of the U.S. Supreme Court, Berg’s Petition was denied without comment by the court.
Berg resubmitted his Petition for a Writ of Certiorari and it was taken on by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy. On December 17th it was denied by Kennedy.
Berg resubmitted his Petition for a Writ of Certiorari for a third time. On January 12th it was denied prior to judgement for a third time by the US Supreme Court.
Berg also petitioned the US Supreme Court for a Stay of the Certification of the Electoral College Vote. His application for a stay was denied by Justice Scalia on January 21st.
Leo Donofrio of New Jersey filed a lawsuit claiming Obama’s dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court but denied a full hearing.
Cort Wrotnowski filed suit against Connecticut’s secretary of state, making a similar argument to Donofrio. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court, but was denied a full hearing.
Former presidential candidate Alan Keyes headlines a list of people filing a suit in California, in a case handled by the United States Justice Foundation, that asks the secretary of state to refuse to allow the state’s 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office. The case is pending, and lawyers are seeking the public’s support. However the 55 California Electors did vote on December 15th and Certification of the Electoral College vote occurred on January 6th.
The California Supreme Court denied this case on December 5th, 2008.
The case was submitted to the US Supreme Court for a Petition for Writ of Certiorari which was denied by Justice Kennedy on December 17th, 2008.
This case was resubmitted to the Supreme Court through Chief Justice John Roberts and will be distributed for conference of January 23rd, 2009.
Chicago attorney Andy Martin sought legal action requiring Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle to release Obama’s vital statistics record. The case was dismissed by Hawaii Circuit Court Judge Bert Ayabe.
Lt. Col. Donald Sullivan sought a temporary restraining order to stop the Electoral College vote in North Carolina until Barack Obama’s eligibility could be confirmed, alleging doubt about Obama’s citizenship. His case was denied.
In Ohio, David M. Neal sued to force the secretary of state to request documents from the Federal Elections Commission, the Democratic National Committee, the Ohio Democratic Party and Obama to show the presidential candidate was born in Hawaii. The case was denied.
In Washington state, Steven Marquis sued the secretary of state seeking a determination on Obama’s citizenship. The case was denied.
In Georgia, Rev. Tom Terry asked the state Supreme Court to authenticate Obama’s birth certificate. His request for an injuction against Georgia’s secretary of state was denied by Georgia Superior Court Judge Jerry W. Baxter.
In Texas, Jody Brockhausen of Round Rock, who runs the Web site, obamaverifybirthplace.com, wrote in her lawsuit that the Texas Secretary of State’s Office should decertify Obama’s name from the state’s 2008 election ballot unless it receives documents proving that Obama was born in Hawaii. Williamson County district judge Bert Carnes dismissed the case arguing that Brockhausen did not have standing.
08-570 BERG, PHILIP J. V. OBAMA, BARACK, ET AL. The motion of Bill Anderson for leave to file a brief as amicus curiae is granted. The petition for a writ of certiorari before judgment is denied.
Donofrio and Cort were both applications for stays. They were denied on the old standby "standing ".
The Texas case and Washington State cases were denied because they were considered moot. When filed, they weren't moot, but by the time it got on the docket the clock had run out on what they were requesting.
None of these cases so far has been tried on the merits. They have all been dismissed on technicalities.
Berg currently has 3 suits pending - one of them is under seal by order of the court.There are a few more cases coming up that can't be dismissed as being moot or that the person doesn't have standing . ( Incidentally, the Keyes case filed an ammended complaint just to avoid the issue of it being deemed moot ).
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this issue. Only time will tell ....
Most of the court actions I listed for Berg were denials of his Petition for Writ of Certiorari and resubmissions of that Petition to different US Supreme Court Justices plus the original dismissal of Berg’s suit in the US District Court in Philadelphia.
Berg’s case has already been at the Supreme Court. He skipped the US Court of Appeals after Judge Surrick dismissed his claim and Berg went straight to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court told him that he could go back to the US Court of Appeals if we wanted to and try again. He is doing that.
Since the election, the certification of the electoral college vote and the swearing in have already taken place, the Supreme Court is NOT going to get involved, in my humble opinion.
The only way to remove a sitting president is via impeachment and conviction in the Pelosi-Reid controlled Congress, at least for the next two years.
There is really nothing to “disagree” on. I am simply advocating ADDING to any current or future civil actions a criminal investigation with a subpoens to release the original long form vault copy birth certificate.
It is my belief that would allow examination of the document by experts under cross-examination. I think that could be an effective way to get the bottom of the issue once and for all.
YAWN. Time for bed now !!!
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