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FReeper Book Club: Atlas Shrugged, The Climax of the d'Anconias
A Publius Essay | 14 February 2009 | Publius

Posted on 02/14/2009 11:27:03 AM PST by Publius

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To: new cruelty
LOLOL! No spoilers!


...but you're right...

61 posted on 02/14/2009 6:24:09 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: whodathunkit
To get to my point, the poor are treated as completely dependent upon the rest of society and when the rug is pulled out from under them, they are left absolutely helpless. This, in my opinion, is not like the real world. I have heard said many times that during the depression the country people didn't know that they were poor.

In the book, the few people that remained in Starnesville, Wisconsin don't exactly fit what you've described, but IIRC, they were less than enthusiastic about Hank and Dagny offering them money for directions to the Twenty First Century Motor Company. They knew they were poor but didn't really seem to care anymore.

62 posted on 02/14/2009 6:31:13 PM PST by new cruelty (Shoot your TV. Torch your newspaper.)
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To: Billthedrill; whodathunkit
In my view you're absolutely right. Rand has to set up a contrast between her "immovable movers" and the rest of society - that would be us poor fumblers - in her dramatic narrative.

You're a Navy man, so I'll use Navy terms. As I pointed out in an earlier thread, for every great skipper there's an equally great exec. I've always thought that Eddie got a raw deal at the end, which I suppose is a half-spoiler. There are those who are not moochers and looters, who are not Creators, who are not faceless, anonymous people living lives of quiet desperation, but who are critical to the Creators not getting bogged down in minutiae. They deserve a shot at Valhalla, or least a suburb of Valhalla.

It will, in fact, survive Atlas shrugging very nicely both in fiction and in the real world.

I call it the quadri-metallic standard. Gold and silver for commerce, and lead and brass to protect them.

63 posted on 02/14/2009 6:31:56 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Billthedrill

Ooops. sorry.


64 posted on 02/14/2009 6:33:40 PM PST by new cruelty (Shoot your TV. Torch your newspaper.)
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To: new cruelty; Billthedrill; Publius

ok... I’m getting ahead of the narrative. I promise, that’s the last spoiler.


65 posted on 02/14/2009 6:35:01 PM PST by new cruelty (Shoot your TV. Torch your newspaper.)
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To: Publius
I call it the quadri-metallic standard. Gold and silver for commerce, and lead and brass to protect them.

I'm stealing that for a tagline. ;-)

66 posted on 02/14/2009 6:35:43 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: ozark hilljilly

I’ve made a habit of reading “The Fountainhead” every 15-20 years (since age 16, I think). Only been able to do Atlas Shrugged twice. And yes, some of those speeches are heavy-lifting.

I’ll try to catch-up on this thread.


67 posted on 02/14/2009 6:44:39 PM PST by ReleaseTheHounds ("The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.")
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To: TASMANIANRED; Publius

Dittoes on this comment. I’m just catching up, Publius, but you’re doing a fantastic job of summarizing some pretty dense material.


68 posted on 02/14/2009 6:48:40 PM PST by ReleaseTheHounds ("The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.")
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To: Billthedrill
Rand has to set up a contrast

Ahhh..... I now see why she portrayed the poor as helpless in the face of adversity.

The either-or nature of AS didn't sit well with me due to my own expectations. I can see that contrasting the extremes helps the reader to make judgments that otherwise might be difficult if the focus is too narrow.

It reminds me of the 'exaggeration game' that I play with my kids. It's a whole lot of fun and the kids find out what ignoring reality can lead to :)

69 posted on 02/14/2009 6:51:33 PM PST by whodathunkit (Shrugging as I leave for the Gulch)
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To: SuperLuminal

SuperLuminal posts - “The time is nearly here to simply “take” back acccess to our unalienable rights and re-institute the original Constitutional Republic. Let the marxist Tories once again populate another country. This one is ours.”

Here! Here!

Back To The Top!

Tatt


70 posted on 02/14/2009 6:53:46 PM PST by thesearethetimes... ("Courage, is fear that has said its prayers." DorothyBernard)
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To: Publius
They deserve a shot at Valhalla, or least a suburb of Valhalla

I agree. I think this falls into the either-or conundrum. All the characters in AS are either winners or losers. There seems to be no 'in between'.

I call it the quadri-metallic standard. Gold and silver for commerce, and lead and brass to protect them

Great line! That's a keeper.

71 posted on 02/14/2009 7:06:48 PM PST by whodathunkit (Shrugging as I leave for the Gulch)
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To: new cruelty
They knew they were poor but didn't really seem to care anymore.

I've spent the past half-hour reading and re-reading that sentence, and I've come to realize that there is a universe of truth, both open and hidden, in that sentence.

People can be poor in material resources or poor in spirit. Some are only poor in one, and some in both. Those who are poor in material resources but rich in spirit will do well. But those poor in both areas will end up like the folks of Starnesville, simply not giving a damn.

72 posted on 02/14/2009 7:09:30 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: whodathunkit

The most damaging thing you can ever do to any one is convince them that they are a victim.

Victims have no power, no ability to better themselves.

They are eternally waiting for a handout.

Thank you FDR and Johnson’s great society.

We saw it demonstrated in vivid color during Katrina.

I’d have packed a back pack, hitched my 2 dogs to their leashes and my family and I would have walked out.

During the great depression people were more self sufficient. And if you had a plot of land you could always feed yourself from the garden or from hunting.

Today if it wasn’t for McD’s the victim folks would starve.


73 posted on 02/14/2009 7:11:25 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: TASMANIANRED; Publius
You are doing a superbly competent job with this project.

Well put.

JJ

74 posted on 02/14/2009 7:14:46 PM PST by Jet Jaguar (Atlas Shrugged Mode: ON)
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To: Billthedrill
Re: no kids in the book.

Kids would detract from the story...She is very deliberately addressing adult issues ..

Kids are an affirmation of life and a symbol of the future.

She is making the point even if in deliberately that the falling system has no future.

75 posted on 02/14/2009 7:14:50 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: TASMANIANRED
The most damaging thing you can ever do to any one is convince them that they are a victim.

And Gresham's Law applies to victims, too. Bad victims chase good victims out of the system. That's where we are today.

76 posted on 02/14/2009 7:17:13 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Publius
Times were different.

College these days is the gold standard and it shouldn't be.

Remedial reading in college has been the standard since the 70’s.

My grandfather was one of the most accomplished man I've ever met with a 4th grade education.. He taught himself algebra and watch making. He was a big Dem but he hobnobbed with governors and senators.

In those days graduating from high school was the exception not the norm.. in the 40’s there were still medical schools and law schools that existed outside college.

The industrial base still persisted, most people worked in factories or in skilled trades..Young men apprenticed in a trade to learn the construction arts instead of spending time uselessly in high school.

77 posted on 02/14/2009 7:20:37 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: Publius

It’s the teach a man to fish idea.


78 posted on 02/14/2009 7:24:28 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: TASMANIANRED
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and he'll spend the whole damn day fishing.

79 posted on 02/14/2009 7:25:36 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Publius

And drinking beer.


80 posted on 02/14/2009 7:26:50 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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