Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Results from nationwide poll (Overwhelming support for teaching both sides of Evolution debate)
Zogby International ^ | February 3, 2009

Posted on 02/19/2009 4:06:47 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

Narrative Summary

4. Would you strongly agree, somewhat agree, somewhat disagree, or strongly disagree that teachers and students should have the academic freedom to discuss both the strengths and weaknesses of evolution as a scientific theory?

(Click excerpt link for responses)

5. Charles Darwin wrote that when considering the evidence for his theory of evolution, “…a fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question.” Do you strongly agree, somewhat agree, somewhat disagree, or strongly disagree with Darwin’s statement?

(Click excerpt link for responses)

6. I am going to read you two statements about Biology teachers teaching Darwin’s theory of evolution. Please tell me which statement comes closest to your own point of view—Statement A or Statement B?

Statement A: Biology teachers should teach only Darwin’s theory of evolution and the scientific evidence that supports it.

Statement B: Biology teachers should teach Darwin’s theory of evolution, but also the scientific evidence against it.

(Click excerpt link for responses)

(Excerpt) Read more at evolutionnews.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 2009polls; antiscienceagenda; catholic; christian; creation; creationism; evolution; fundamentalism; intelligentdesign; moralabsolutes; zogby
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-228 next last
To: GodGunsGuts

The United Church of Darwin does not allow any disagreement.


51 posted on 02/19/2009 4:57:10 PM PST by Cinnamon Girl (G-d Bless President Bush. He kept us safe.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

They barfed up the inane theory.


52 posted on 02/19/2009 4:57:41 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Marie2
No, since the Bible does not declare alchemy nor flat earth notions to be true.

We must have read different bibles.

Find the missing link yet?

Sure! Tens of thousands actually. Here are ten to get you started, written in a very simple layman style.

My particular favorite "missing link" is the tiktaalik - because it was predicted and then discovered exactly where it was predicted to be found in the strata. I'm still waiting for the creationist take on tiktaalik.

And by the way, to play your "missing link" game is foolish. For every one discovered, two more "missing links" are created.
53 posted on 02/19/2009 4:57:50 PM PST by whattajoke (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
They barfed up the inane theory.

It takes more than insults and righeous indgnation to prove it.

54 posted on 02/19/2009 4:59:29 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: whattajoke

“We must have read different bibles. “

Indeed. Can you tell me about any verses on alchemy or flat earth?

Those aren’t missing links, sorry, try again. I’d like to see the link species between one species and the next. Most especially, I’d like to see the one between apes and man.


55 posted on 02/19/2009 5:00:37 PM PST by Marie2 (Ora et labora)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Marie2; whattajoke
Or how ‘bout living cells spontaneously forming on the backs of crystals or life on earth seeded by aliens (Dawkins).
56 posted on 02/19/2009 5:01:41 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
or would you rather equip them to be able to think for themselves?

I am sure that you would be the first to call the principal's office if your child came home saying that the science teacher was teaching that God may be dead.

57 posted on 02/19/2009 5:02:46 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
You write:

I’m not opposed to destroying the flimsy myth of evolution, first, if that’s where you want to start.

So I give you the easiest way to get started: "Pick one - your best shot, your best evidence, etc" And then I get:

You go first.

Um. Did you give up so quickly?
58 posted on 02/19/2009 5:02:53 PM PST by whattajoke (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Cedric

It is interesting. Ultimately, evolutionists see matter as eternal. Creationists see God as eternal.


59 posted on 02/19/2009 5:03:32 PM PST by Marie2 (Ora et labora)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

Okay, have someone read this to you very slowly: It is incumbent upon the proponents of a theory to prove it.


60 posted on 02/19/2009 5:03:33 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
Okay, have someone read this to you very slowly: It is incumbent upon the proponents of a theory to prove it.

Do you think you can prove ID?

61 posted on 02/19/2009 5:04:22 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
You just have to look back at all the TOE/ID/Creationism threads on Freerepublic to realize that the “controversy” makes the subject far, far, more interesting than simply presenting the orthodox view.

Looking at all these threads I see repeated the fake science of the creationists' web sites over and over again. It is not interesting. It is pathetic to see how so many are fooled by these guys and actually send in money to them.

62 posted on 02/19/2009 5:04:25 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: whattajoke

We’re waiting.


63 posted on 02/19/2009 5:04:39 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Marie2
"No, since the Bible does not declare alchemy nor flat earth notions to be true."

Then you are admitting it is a matter of religion, not science.

64 posted on 02/19/2009 5:04:47 PM PST by mlo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
I didn't know that.

But you do know that ID proposes that life originated from simple elements in pond scum and that man evolved from animals that evolved from this original life over billions of years?

65 posted on 02/19/2009 5:06:24 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
Do you think you can prove ID?

Give us 150 years, a strangle hold on academia and untold grant dollars and we'll get back to you.

66 posted on 02/19/2009 5:06:52 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: mlo

I admit the Bible is not a science textbook.

I deny that its account of the creation of this world is in error.

I admit that true science supports and does not contradict the Bible.

I admit that God knows infinitely more than we do about everything.


67 posted on 02/19/2009 5:07:37 PM PST by Marie2 (Ora et labora)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
“I'm never going to get caught in the trap of trying to prove to you that Genesis is true by science. I'm just going to proclaim to you what Genesis says and let science bow its knee to that explanation.” Minister John MacArthur

This is all anyone interested in science needs to know about Creationists and their view of the Bible and science. They know it is a trap, so they are not actually interested in scientific evidence to support their position, just interested in making everyone and everything “bow its knee” to their inane Biblical interpretation.

Using this criteria how would one ever disabuse themselves of the notion that the Earth doesn't move? Obviously one who knows that the Earth does move can read Psalm 104:5 with a clearer eye to its true meaning than a literalist.

Psalm 104:5 He laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be moved forever

68 posted on 02/19/2009 5:07:42 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: mlo

No, Einstein.

Read much?


69 posted on 02/19/2009 5:08:21 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts
(Overwhelming support for teaching both sides of Evolution debate)

NO WHERE in your link did it propose teaching 'another side of the Evolution debate'.

70 posted on 02/19/2009 5:09:14 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
Give us 150 years, a strangle hold on academia and untold grant dollars and we'll get back to you.

Talk about an entitlement mentality.

71 posted on 02/19/2009 5:09:22 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

Do you know the literal, Hebrew translation of that verse?


72 posted on 02/19/2009 5:10:30 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
Give us 150 years, a strangle hold on academia and untold grant dollars and we'll get back to you.

Did the people taking this survey know that this is what they meant by "teaching both sides of the issue"?

73 posted on 02/19/2009 5:11:46 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

I’m of the opinion that kids would get a lot more out of science classes if they didn’t waste any time on origins. The subject of origins isn’t required for teaching applicable facts of science, including biology. The most brilliant cell biologist on earth could be completely void of opinions on origins, and it wouldn’t make a diddly-squat bit of difference. The same goes for any of the various fields of botany or zoology. I’m not trying to get anyone riled up here, just stating my opinion. Parents can teach their kids creationism or evolution, whichever one represents their faith.


74 posted on 02/19/2009 5:11:51 PM PST by pallis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Marie2
Indeed. Can you tell me about any verses on alchemy or flat earth?

Oh I don't want to play this game. There are several verses in both testaments that speak of the "four corners of the earth." Does that mean anything beyond colloquialisms or the limited knowledge of the earth's true shape to Isiah, Job, Jeremiah, or Daniel? (Or whomever wrote those books). I don't particularly care. Of course the Greeks figured the earth was round 3-400 years before Christ.

Those aren’t missing links, sorry, try again. I’d like to see the link species between one species and the next. Most especially, I’d like to see the one between apes and man.

? I'm interested in what you think those skulls represent.
75 posted on 02/19/2009 5:15:04 PM PST by whattajoke (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

“Psalm 104:5 He laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be moved forever”

That is obviously a metaphor or something or other. You have to relate that to other relevant passages to understand the true meaning. You are not an expert in the Bible so you are not qualified to interpret the Bible. Oops. I didn’t mean ‘interpret’. Obviously the Bible is the literal word of God and does not need interpreting. The problem is that you are quoting a passage in English. In order to get the right meaning, you have to go back to the original Hebrew text. It takes a learned scholar to do that. So please, do not try to understand the Bible. Just go on what my Sunday School teacher tells us is fact. In case you missed sunday school, I have a few creationist websites I can link you to. BTW, they sell all kind of neat merchandise. Lots of tapes and DVD’s also!


76 posted on 02/19/2009 5:16:44 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
Talk about an entitlement mentality.

Yup, that's the evo bullies, too lazy to get off their fat, grant sucking asses and try to dig up (pun) the evidence they promised over 150 years ago.

77 posted on 02/19/2009 5:17:10 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: Cedric

Young’s Literal Translation

Psalm 104:5 He hath founded earth on its bases, It is not moved to the age and for ever.


78 posted on 02/19/2009 5:18:37 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
Yup, that's the evo bullies, too lazy to get off their fat, grant sucking asses and try to dig up (pun) the evidence they promised over 150 years ago.

You can leave the "I know you are, but what am I?" arguement on the playground. This is class time.

79 posted on 02/19/2009 5:18:56 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
Did the people taking this survey know that this is what they meant by "teaching both sides of the issue"?

Didn't the headline distort the results of the survey? I didn't see anything about teaching 'both sides'. I only saw that the surveyed wanted to teach the scientific evidence for and against evolution. That doesn't mean teach another side.

80 posted on 02/19/2009 5:19:00 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: ColdWater; GodGunsGuts

GGG has made something of a cottage industry in sources that do not back his contentions.


81 posted on 02/19/2009 5:20:22 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
We’re waiting.

Waiting for what? For me to teach you 150 years of biology in a blurb on FR? Sorry. Your game here is quite pathetic. "I can destroy evolution easily!" And then when asked to give ONE SINGLE EVIDENCE you shrink away and ask me to do what YOU claimed. Like a child.

Here's an oft-cited link to get you started. Of course, you'll have issue with that link. So just pick one issue you have and we'll go from there - since it's all so flimsy anyway.
82 posted on 02/19/2009 5:21:58 PM PST by whattajoke (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: allmendream; GodGunsGuts
GGG has made something of a cottage industry in sources that do not back his contentions.

Does he get paid by the thread or by the number of responses to his threads?

83 posted on 02/19/2009 5:22:42 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

Not acceptable.


84 posted on 02/19/2009 5:23:53 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: Cedric

Cedric: I’m not opposed to destroying the flimsy myth of evolution, first, if that’s where you want to start.

Other: Give us your one single best brightest undisputable evidence

Cedric: You go first.

Nice duck, dear Cedric. You said you would go first and you ducked the first challenge to you.


85 posted on 02/19/2009 5:25:30 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: ColdWater
Didn't the headline distort the results of the survey? I didn't see anything about teaching 'both sides'. I only saw that the surveyed wanted to teach the scientific evidence for and against evolution. That doesn't mean teach another side.

Depends on what you mean by "both sides". For and against the theory of evolution, or for some other theory, and against evolution. But you are correct that the questions asked in the survey and the results don't seem to support the conclusions that are being arrived at.

86 posted on 02/19/2009 5:26:10 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: ColdWater
Does he get paid by the thread or by the number of responses to his threads?

I've wondered that. But ICR and AIG get nothing out of his parroting their articles. Articles written by dead guys, fake doctorate guys, and guys who cite fake sources - and that's just in the last 2 days!
87 posted on 02/19/2009 5:26:33 PM PST by whattajoke (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: whattajoke

Yes, I know about references to the four corners, and to the sun rising and setting, none of which mean any more than I do when I use those phrases. If I say sunrise is at 6:28 am, that does not mean I am a flat earther. If I talk about visiting the four corners of the globe, it does not mean I am a flat earther. Jesus said He is the vine and we are the branches. That doesn’t mean Jesus is made of wood. You really need to read the whole Bible and be honest about it.

Today is Thursday, and that doesn’t mean I believe in the god Thor, either.

I think those skull represent various species, some of which may be extinct, and some of which may be primates with some sort of birth defect or abnormality or what have you. Just as in human beings, for instance, if we have dwarfism, the head is disproportionately large. The dwarf is not a missing link.


88 posted on 02/19/2009 5:27:04 PM PST by Marie2 (Ora et labora)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: whattajoke

Go get some real evidence.

And quit misquoting me, you charlatan.


89 posted on 02/19/2009 5:27:08 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Marie2
Creation science presupposes these incidents to be true. So, Biology, Chemistry, Geology etc. are taught from these presuppositions.

How do you reconcile the pacific 'zebra stripes' (magnetic reversals) with the 6000 year old earth?

90 posted on 02/19/2009 5:27:54 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: ColdWater
if that’s where you want to start

A helpful hint for the reading impaired: The key word is "you."

91 posted on 02/19/2009 5:29:41 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: Marie2
Yes, I know about references to the four corners, and to the sun rising and setting, none of which mean any more than I do when I use those phrases.

So, as I understand the above, the words in the Bible mean no more than the words we speak similar phrases? Does this apply to all the phrases in the Bible?

92 posted on 02/19/2009 5:29:43 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
Go get some real evidence.

My you are a quick reader! Please select ONE SINGLE SENTENCE/EVIDENCE in that link that is "fake."

And quit misquoting me, you charlatan.

I’m not opposed to destroying the flimsy myth of evolution, first, if that’s where you want to start.
I’m not opposed to destroying the flimsy myth of evolution, first, if that’s where you want to start.
I’m not opposed to destroying the flimsy myth of evolution, first, if that’s where you want to start.
I’m not opposed to destroying the flimsy myth of evolution, first, if that’s where you want to start.
I’m not opposed to destroying the flimsy myth of evolution, first, if that’s where you want to start.

93 posted on 02/19/2009 5:30:20 PM PST by whattajoke (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
So how would one ever disabuse themselves of the notion that the earth doesn't move if one insists that their interpretation of scripture is superior to actual evidence of the universe?

Psalm 104:5 was often cited as one of the reasons it was ‘impossible’ for the Earth to move by Christian literalists.

What changed?

94 posted on 02/19/2009 5:31:04 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: ColdWater
Does he get paid by the thread or by the number of responses to his threads?

If he does, that means he has something akin to a job.

Hence, your jealousy.

95 posted on 02/19/2009 5:32:52 PM PST by Cedric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: whattajoke

>I’ve wondered that. But ICR and AIG get nothing out of his parroting their articles. <

ICR ...................................................

Tuition
Per quarter hour $150.00
Total cost for 54 quarter hours $8,100.00

Special Fees (Non-Refundable)
Textbooks and supplies (about $150/course) $1,800.00
Application Fee: Must be submitted before
application can be processed $30.00
Supplemental Laboratory or Field Trip costs
(may vary depending on course) $3,500.00
Processing Fee for Graduation $20.00
Transcript Fee (first transcript is free) $2.00

Estimated Cost for the Program $13,450.00


96 posted on 02/19/2009 5:32:56 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: Marie2
Yes, I know about references to the four corners, and to the sun rising and setting, none of which mean any more than I do when I use those phrases.

I agree 100%. Now if we can come to an understanding about the rest of the bible being symbolic and full of metaphors, we'll be getting somewhere.

I think those skull represent various species, some of which may be extinct, and some of which may be primates with some sort of birth defect or abnormality or what have you.

This is indeed interesting. I urge you to do some research into what evidences lie behind these skulls. I think you are insulting the research that has gone into these findings. They are certainly all "extinct." However, if you wish to pursue your ideas, there is some major grant money and possible awards in your future.
97 posted on 02/19/2009 5:33:35 PM PST by whattajoke (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: ColdWater

Magnetic reversal is something I have not studied, so, for what it is worth to you, here is the short analysis from creationWiki

“It is believed that the unusual magnetic orientation pattern of sea floor rocks is due to repeated reversals of the Earth’s magnetic field when the rocks were cooling from molten material. According to this model, the magnetite grains in the magma (molten rock) will align themselves with the orientation of the Earth’s magnetic field while in a fluid state. When magma cools, the alignment of the magnetite grains is fixed, effectively recording the Earth’s magnetic orientation or polarity (normal or reversed) at the time of cooling.

If this interpretation of magnetic striping is correct, the striped pattern of sea floor rocks offers support for the theory of continental drift, which many creationists believe occurred as a result of catastrophic plate tectonics during the Biblical flood of Noah. Radiometric dating of sea floor rocks using potassium-argon dating method has also revealed a correlation between the distance of the rocks from the mid-oceanic ridge and the quantity of unstable isotopes in the sample.”


98 posted on 02/19/2009 5:34:04 PM PST by Marie2 (Ora et labora)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: Cedric
If he does, that means he has something akin to a job. Hence, your jealousy.

No jealousy. I have a real job. Not something 'akin' to a job. I design, build and operate nuclear power plants (with a little help from others). And if you really believe all the non-science that the YEC'rs spout you would be deadly afraid of nuclear power since all the physics' theories that allow us to safely operation nuclear power plants are totally trashed by the YEC crowd.

99 posted on 02/19/2009 5:35:46 PM PST by ColdWater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: whattajoke

“Now if we can come to an understanding about the rest of the bible being symbolic and full of metaphors, we’ll be getting somewhere.”

References to the four corners of the earth and sunrise and so forth are in poetic and prophetic books. References to six-day creation are in historical narratives right in there with the genealogies, the troop movements, and all the literal stuff. Further, references to six day creation are referred to as literal by Moses, Jesus, Paul, and others. They are never referred to as being metaphorical.

As for grant money to pursue an investigation of odd skulls whose DNA does not match our own, I doubt I could get a grant. Firstly, I am not a degreed scientist and doubt I ever will be. Secondly, those who believe God created the world don’t get grants from secular or governmental institutions. We are not politically correct.


100 posted on 02/19/2009 5:38:19 PM PST by Marie2 (Ora et labora)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 97 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-228 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson