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Colorado ranchers pray for death of `death' tax
Associated Press ^ | Feb 20, 2009 | ALYSIA PATTERSON

Posted on 02/21/2009 7:54:52 AM PST by george76

For Dale Allee, a second-generation cattle rancher in southern Colorado, the idiom that nothing is certain but death and taxes is now a reality.

"I just turned 80 last week. You know what that means? That means I'm not going to be around here very long, and somebody's going to have to pay those taxes," said Allee, who fears federal estate taxes will thwart his plans to pass his 4,200-acre Pueblo County ranch to his children.

Land-rich but cash poor, Western ranchers are lobbying Washington to exempt them from the estate tax, which can force heirs to sell their inheritance — often to real estate developers — to pay the duty within a nine-month deadline.

"I don't like subdivisions and I don't like development," Allee said. "There's a lot of us around here that have got that feeling. We just don't want to see houses built all over our land."

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: bho44; death; deathandtaxes; deathtax; estatetax; fairtax; flattax; kelo; propertyrights; rancher; takings; taxcode; taxes

1 posted on 02/21/2009 7:54:52 AM PST by george76
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To: jazusamo; rellimpank; girlangler; Grammy; Texas Fossil; editor-surveyor; SierraWasp; calcowgirl; ...

“I’m not an educated man and I’m not a moneyed man,”

“I’m just a cowboy... an 80-year-old cowboy now.”


2 posted on 02/21/2009 7:58:00 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

In the Zimbabwe model, land confiscation and crony redistribution is very important. Onerous inheritance taxes are a nonviolent way to accomplish the same thing.


3 posted on 02/21/2009 8:00:09 AM PST by Pearls Before Swine (Is /sarc really necessary?)
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To: Pearls Before Swine

in the end, government owns everything. it’s the marxist way.


4 posted on 02/21/2009 8:01:02 AM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: george76

The death tax is the worst tax that that the government can inflict on you. They taxed you to death by placing obstacles in your path to limit your ability to own land, then when you die they see another opportunity to grab what they did not earn and prevent your heirs from benefitting from your wishes.


5 posted on 02/21/2009 8:02:46 AM PST by BuffaloJack
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To: BuffaloJack

Don’t worry it will be in good hands. Some Hollyweird Star will buy it.


6 posted on 02/21/2009 8:05:58 AM PST by Oldexpat (Drill Here, Drill There..we must drill everywhere.)
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To: BuffaloJack

re: They taxed you to death by placing obstacles in your path to limit your ability to own land

And then when you did manage to overcome all the obstacles put in your way and actually own or earn something they taxed the hell out of it.

There is no doubt in my mind that government is the biggest single threat to America and our way of life.


7 posted on 02/21/2009 8:07:03 AM PST by jwparkerjr (God Bless America!)
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To: george76
Land-rich but cash poor

which indicates a low marginal value for the land or an inability to get money out of the land.

8 posted on 02/21/2009 8:08:10 AM PST by glorgau
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To: george76

Being a tax collector may become a dangerous line of work real soon...


9 posted on 02/21/2009 8:09:15 AM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: george76

Put it in a Trust while you still can, my 86 yr old MIL did it years ago. There are ways around this if you have trust in your heirs.


10 posted on 02/21/2009 8:11:40 AM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: george76

Everyone should be exempt, not just ranchers. Why would they ask just for ranchers to be exempt???


11 posted on 02/21/2009 8:12:23 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: tiki; george76

-—yep—while I’m not an expert on tax law, my folks farm has been in a Limited Liability Corporation for some years—my mother still has technical control of it.


12 posted on 02/21/2009 8:14:52 AM PST by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: george76
Western ranchers are lobbying Washington to exempt them from the estate tax

Why just for Western ranchers?
No one should be subject to this kind of theft.

13 posted on 02/21/2009 8:20:44 AM PST by grobdriver (Let the embeds check the bodies!)
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To: george76
I put all I owned in a trust for my daughter. I am alone and I wish to pass all to her if/when I die and I don't wish Obama’s minions to get a red cent. My daughter can do with it as she wishes, I won't be around to worry about it. But it is MY choice.
14 posted on 02/21/2009 8:21:06 AM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: glorgau
Did you copy that from an intro to business course? It makes no sense whatsoever but has all of the markings of someone who wants to sound knowledgeable.
15 posted on 02/21/2009 8:23:05 AM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: george76

Colorado is ruled by the minority RATS. They have cornered more money and turned it into political power. They have taken fuel tax money and put it into the general tax fund and failed to fix the roads. They raised the fuel tax and still failed to fix the roads. They put oil resources off limits and make fuel prices even higher. Can you still buy coal in Colorado? All the mines I know of are closed.

Of the People, By the People and For the People? Not according to the rats!


16 posted on 02/21/2009 8:25:30 AM PST by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: rellimpank; vetvetdoug

I wish more old cowboy ranchers would get some basic legal estate advise.

When they do not, the ranch gets broken up for the estate taxes on the old boy and then the kids can get hit with additional capital gain taxes.

The IRS can get a two for one.

Then the adult kids end up in an apartment somewhere in a city.


17 posted on 02/21/2009 8:28:47 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: tiki
"Put it in a Trust while you still can..."

That is very good advice as long as you do it right and fully fund the trust. That means everything gets titled into the trust - house, land, vehicles, bank accounts, etc. Most people start the process, but find that they don't want to go through all the hassle and expense to fully fund it, so they end up being partially funded or dissolved.

My parents set up a Revocable Family Trust years ago (when we all lived in Colorado, no less) and they did it the right way. As they got older, they gradually added us as Trustees. When dad passed away, all of us children were finally added as Trustees, and then when mom passed last year it has made it very easy for us, since her estate (being in the Trust) does not have to go through probate. The Trust will file her last tax return and take care of any of those things. The only drawback we see right now is that we are having to wait for several large CD's to mature before we can close them out and we still have not been able to sell their house in Sun City West (Arizona), so that is dragging out the process of dissolving the Trust, and we (the Trust) may have to file one more year of tax returns due to not being able to close out everything by the end of 2008.

There are many pros and cons about trusts, but they are definitely worth looking in to.

18 posted on 02/21/2009 8:39:00 AM PST by Pablo64 (Political Correctness is a DISEASE. <==> TRUTH is the CURE.)
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To: george76

I wonder if Dale could sell his land to his family now, for a greatly reduced cost.


19 posted on 02/21/2009 8:41:40 AM PST by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: george76

So these folks are hoping that a dedicated Marxist will allow them to keep their own stuff??!! Do you want to tell them, or shall I?


20 posted on 02/21/2009 8:42:14 AM PST by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
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To: napscoordinator

Inheritance tax is not “taxation” it is confiscation of property that has already been taxed.

If when you die, your property goes to the government, then you really do not own it.

My family has farmed in Texas since 1868 and before that in Alabama, where we were burned out during Reconstruction.

Wake up, none of us will have anything if this Commie has his way. A resistance must form soon, or the U.S. is finished. The founders (dead white guys) knew that private property was an essential part of a free nation.


21 posted on 02/21/2009 8:44:27 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: BuffaloJack
The death tax is the worst tax that that the government can inflict on you. They taxed you to death by placing obstacles in your path to limit your ability to own land, then when you die they see another opportunity to grab what they did not earn and prevent your heirs from benefitting from your wishes.

Earning money is for suckers. There is now only one road to wealth in America that does not tax you to death:

Marrying money.


"We BOTH married into the same $500 million fortune and have not had to pay a single dollar in Federal taxes on that money!"

22 posted on 02/21/2009 8:45:48 AM PST by Polybius
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To: Texas Fossil

I agree, but I still don’t understand why anyone should have to pay taxes at all when they die and leave money property or anything to their survivors. Do you agree with this or are you just concerned about property only???


23 posted on 02/21/2009 8:46:27 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: george76
I put it all in the Revocable Trust. I think I have one vehicle that is not in the trust. My half of my business, my house, farm, and all that is here is in the trust. Its a pain at times because I pretty much have to have my lawyer keep up with my transactions but after I saw how the IRS feasted upon my Father and the rest of my family, I was not going to have it happen to me. My lawyer charged me about $2500 to do the paperwork and get it done right and there is a little cost here and there to keep it up. I also have many Life Insurance policies to cover the costs of any unexpected expenses if/when I punch the ticket.

One of my most dishonest and ruthless high school class mates became an IRS agent and if he is any indication of the lot of them, I don't want any part of them.

24 posted on 02/21/2009 8:48:12 AM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: napscoordinator

I agree totally. This is about destruction of wealth.


25 posted on 02/21/2009 8:49:09 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: jwparkerjr

“There is no doubt in my mind that government is the biggest single threat to America and our way of life.”

It was ever thus.


26 posted on 02/21/2009 8:49:14 AM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: george76
Some of this opposition to the "death tax" among farmers is a bit disingenuous.

From what I understand, the Federal tax code contains specific provisions that exempt agricultural land from estate taxation . . . as long as the land is inherited by a family member who continues to use it for agricultural purposes.

Land-rich but cash poor, Western ranchers are lobbying Washington to exempt them from the estate tax, which can force heirs to sell their inheritance — often to real estate developers — to pay the duty within a nine-month deadline.

The only way heirs are forced to sell this type of inheritance is if the heirs simply don't want to run the family farm/ranch anymore. BTW, this is the typical scenario you come across when someone is "forced to sell the family farm to real estate developers in order to pay the estate tax."

27 posted on 02/21/2009 8:56:40 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Texas Fossil
I agree totally. This is about destruction of wealth.

And control. No way to put the shackles on his children if they own land and don't have to lease it back from the bank and the government. Nothing more than slavery.
28 posted on 02/21/2009 9:01:07 AM PST by CowboyJay (Bobby Jindal - Refusing the job DC tried to pull)
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To: Alberta's Child

I am not a tax attorney, but I do not believe that is correct.

The current limit on transfer without taxation is somewhere between 1.2-1.5 million.

But that law will expire soon and could be changed by this administration before that. He has already stated that he would reverse Bush’s changes on this. The prior threshold was about $600,000. Have you priced farm or ranch land?

It is a serious concern, and has an impact on the entire population due to cost of food & fiber.


29 posted on 02/21/2009 9:01:36 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: CowboyJay

Yes, that is what Communism is about. Slavery to the State.

BHO is a Commie.


30 posted on 02/21/2009 9:03:38 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil
My understanding is that estate tax law requires land to be valued under its "highest and best use" for estimating the dollar value of the estate in question. Farms, however, have a special provision that allows them to be valued at their current (agricultural) use -- but only if the family continues to operate the farm.
31 posted on 02/21/2009 9:10:22 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Alberta's Child

That does not change the threshold value.


32 posted on 02/21/2009 9:13:48 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: george76

4,200-acre Pueblo County ranch

Zereo will distribute that property for you.

A couple of years ago a black alderwoman in Chicongo was hoping for reparations. A Lexus and 40 Acres. Well she is going to get the 40 Acres, I can see that right now. I don’t know about the Lexus yet. Haven’t read the porkulus package yet.


33 posted on 02/21/2009 9:30:59 AM PST by chainsaw (The Democrat Party = The Party of Corruption.)
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To: CowboyJay
Look.

Gen 47:13 And there was no bread in all the land; for the famine was very sore, so that the land of Egypt and all the land of Canaan fainted by reason of the famine.

Gen 47:14 And Joseph gathered up all the money that was found in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, for the corn which they bought: and Joseph brought the money into Pharaoh's house.

Gen 47:15 And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread: for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth.

Gen 47:16 And Joseph said, Give your cattle; and I will give you for your cattle, if money fail.

Gen 47:17 And they brought their cattle unto Joseph: and Joseph gave them bread in exchange for horses, and for the flocks, and for the cattle of the herds, and for the asses: and he fed them with bread for all their cattle for that year.

Gen 47:18 When that year was ended, they came unto him the second year, and said unto him, We will not hide it from my lord, how that our money is spent; my lord also hath our herds of cattle; there is not ought left in the sight of my lord, but our bodies, and our lands:

Gen 47:19 Wherefore shall we die before thine eyes, both we and our land? buy us and our land for bread, and we and our land will be servants unto Pharaoh: and give us seed, that we may live, and not die, that the land be not desolate.

Gen 47:20 And Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh; for the Egyptians sold every man his field, because the famine prevailed over them: so the land became Pharaoh's.

Gen 47:21 And as for the people, he removed them to cities from one end of the borders of Egypt even to the other end thereof.

Gen 47:22 Only the land of the priests bought he not; for the priests had a portion assigned them of Pharaoh, and did eat their portion which Pharaoh gave them: wherefore they sold not their lands.

Gen 47:23 Then Joseph said unto the people, Behold, I have bought you this day and your land for Pharaoh: lo, here is seed for you, and ye shall sow the land.

Gen 47:24 And it shall come to pass in the increase, that ye shall give the fifth part unto Pharaoh, and four parts shall be your own, for seed of the field, and for your food, and for them of your households, and for food for your little ones.

34 posted on 02/21/2009 9:34:44 AM PST by freedom9
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To: Alberta's Child
"The only way heirs are forced to sell this type of inheritance is if the heirs simply don't want to run the family farm/ranch anymore. BTW, this is the typical scenario you come across when someone is "forced to sell the family farm to real estate developers in order to pay the estate tax."

Actually, that is not true. I have a neighbor who bought 300 acres of land in the 70's for $20/acre. Now it is worth about $48,000/ acre. He has never had a lot of money, (he was a mason) he just made an extremely wise investment. All he wants is for his kids to be able to live on this beautiful land.... which is not farmland, it is rolling hills and trees. The inheritance taxes would require them to sell *all* the land. Yes, they would have a bundle of money, but they want to live there as well! Is this fair?

35 posted on 02/21/2009 10:28:57 AM PST by Grammy
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To: glorgau
an inability to get money out of the land

Yup. Tax and interest you to death, and then take your land when you're dead, they do. My forbears helped win the West to get away from the politicians and bankers back-east. Took 'em 150 years, but they finally caught up with us.
36 posted on 02/21/2009 10:31:03 AM PST by CowboyJay (Globalism is NOT a hot tub. We're all Soros' frogs now.)
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To: freedom9

More truth in that one book than in all the world’s libraries. The rest of our historical texts are just modern examples of its’ lessons.


37 posted on 02/21/2009 10:39:59 AM PST by CowboyJay
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To: george76

“I’m not an educated man and I’m not a moneyed man,”

“I’m just a cowboy... an 80-year-old cowboy now.””

Estate taxes should be abolished for everyone..ranchers and farmers will no longer be producing our food if this madness does NOT stop.

The only current winners with the estate taxes are the LAWYERS who are constantly creating new trust funds.


38 posted on 02/21/2009 11:51:27 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: george76
Washington might be listening, according to the Colorado Cattlemen's Association

I'd like to think so but not holding my breath.

Actually all estate taxes should be eliminated, they're just a legal way for government to steal assets.

39 posted on 02/21/2009 11:53:06 AM PST by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
Did you copy that from an intro to business course? It makes no sense whatsoever but has all of the markings of someone who wants to sound knowledgeable.

OK, cornseed. How about "If'n ya ain't making money from it, ya can't pay money from it."

40 posted on 02/22/2009 4:22:18 PM PST by glorgau
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To: Pablo64

My MIL is still alive but I’m fairly sure that it is done well, she hired a good lawyer when it was set up. My husband and both of his sisters are on every account and are all Trustees.


41 posted on 02/23/2009 8:17:58 AM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: george76

bump for later


42 posted on 03/23/2009 11:52:14 AM PDT by goodnesswins (Conservative and fighting for freedom and liberty....whether you like it or not.)
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