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The Goldwater Lesson (stick to our principles)
The American Spectator ^ | February 24, 2009 | Jeffrey Lord

Posted on 02/24/2009 6:40:31 AM PST by St. Louis Conservative

"The Republicans have a simple choice. If they want to continue to define themselves as conservatives, they'll be defining themselves into oblivion. If they want to save themselves, they may have to create a third party of moderates."
-- Pollster John Zogby, November 16, 2008

"The Republican Party has paid a shatte ring price for the erratic deviation from our soundly moderate 20th century course. That ill-advised, badly-led swing to the extreme right has been decisively vetoed by the American voters, hundreds of thousands of Republicans among them."
-- Fred Young, NY GOP State Chair, November 5, 1964

"The undertakers are premature"
-- William F. Buckley, November 5, 1964


By now, the refrain insisting conservatism is a loser is, well, embarrassing.

To people like John Zogby.

Yet with the all-out assault of the Obama-ites on capitalism and the core tenets of a free market system, it is vital to remember the very relevant history of modern conservatives and liberals and just how we got here. It is important to look back to understand how to move forward.

The latest election of the day lost by Republicans is always said to be lost (as Mr. Zogby has done) because conservatives insisted on, well, conservatism. With the annual gathering of the Conservative Political Action Committee upon us, this year's gathering headlined by Rush Limbaugh, let's spend a moment documenting just how old and how very routine these anti-conservative diatribes are. Mr. Zogby is far from alone.

(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: barrygoldwater; conservatism; republicans; ronaldreagan

1 posted on 02/24/2009 6:40:31 AM PST by St. Louis Conservative
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To: St. Louis Conservative

Yea! John McCain was a booming success.


2 posted on 02/24/2009 6:42:36 AM PST by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: St. Louis Conservative

a good portion of Republicans in congress don’t realise they are Republicans...they think they are Democraps....or Dhimmicrat lite.


3 posted on 02/24/2009 6:43:25 AM PST by Vaquero ( "an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Vaquero

I remember many pundits in 1980 stating that Reagan could not win as he was too conservative for the nation


4 posted on 02/24/2009 6:47:40 AM PST by lakertaker
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To: St. Louis Conservative

Pundits engage in hyperbole as a general rule, but has America fundamentally changed and moved away from Conservatism in the realms of finance, social issue, and national defense?

I’m not certain to be honest about it, Conservatism was mainstream American Thought, now in the GWB aftermath we are stuck with his hangover and will suffer the slings and arrows for it.


5 posted on 02/24/2009 6:48:17 AM PST by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: St. Louis Conservative

Zogby is an idiot. It was biased, corrupt media and corrupt Acorn vote rigging that lost the election, not ‘conservatism’.

Some of that blame also falls on RINO’S in the party that ALLOWED this media corruption to continue unchallenged for the past 8 years, as well as the vote rigging scams by Acorn.


6 posted on 02/24/2009 6:48:20 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: St. Louis Conservative

“”The Republican Party has paid a shatte ring price for the erratic deviation from our soundly moderate 20th century course. That ill-advised, badly-led swing to the extreme right has been decisively vetoed by the American voters, hundreds of thousands of Republicans among them.”
— Fred Young, NY GOP State Chair, November 5, 1964 “


It was this right wing “extremism” of Goldwater’s that made George and Mitt Romney storm out of the convention in public protest.


7 posted on 02/24/2009 6:53:45 AM PST by ansel12 ( Am I the only freeper that has been held in an American internment center?)
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To: St. Louis Conservative

Moderates cost us the Presidential election and also the last two congressional elections. George W. Bush governed as a lefty, government did nothing but grow under his watch.

If it’s true that the U.S. has become a custodial nation with a large minority population who only concerns themselves with getting a free ride from the government, then let’s go down with our principles or start considering secession.

Mob rule is a poor form of government and that’s what democracies are at their core. The left knows they can sway the stupid and dependent custodials of the democratic party - those guys care only that they’re going to get something for nothing - the future means nothing to them.

The principles of the republic may actually be lost. We’ve got an activist marxist as our president and no clear alternatives.

Maybe the U.S. is getting ready to break up into smaller countries and what’s wrong with that?


8 posted on 02/24/2009 6:58:35 AM PST by Professor_Leonide (I said to the young man who showed me a photo, "Who can ever be sure what is behind a mask?")
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To: St. Louis Conservative

If only we could find people in the republican party who actually were conservatives and acted conservative. Instead we get Bushed, they tell us they are conservative, get elected then show their true self and sell us down the road to socialism.


9 posted on 02/24/2009 6:59:09 AM PST by stockpirate (A people unwilling to use violent force to preserve liberty deserve the tyrants that rule them. SP-0)
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To: St. Louis Conservative

We cheered when the Soviet Union disolved and 15 nations emerged. So, bigger isn’t always better. It’s usually the other way around.

Ask yourself these questions:

Isn’t a diamond more precious than a large hot air balloon?

Wouldn’t you rather drive in a small red Corvette or sit in a public bus?

Is a 1500 sq foot house in the country by a beautiful lake superior to a section 8 apartment building with 600 occupants (half of them felons)?

Would you rather have an 8 oz. rare steak from Ruth Cris or a three pound rump roast from a discount grocer?

Would you rather spend the night with a 115 lb Victoria’s Secret Model or with the 225 lb. Roseanne Barr?

Bigger isn’t always better. Bigger is usually worse.


10 posted on 02/24/2009 7:03:05 AM PST by Professor_Leonide (I said to the young man who showed me a photo, "Who can ever be sure what is behind a mask?")
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To: St. Louis Conservative
Before The Storm
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And .....moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" GOLDWATER 1964 acceptance speech
11 posted on 02/24/2009 7:07:14 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady of the North")
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To: Professor_Leonide
Bigger isn’t always better. Bigger is usually worse.

I can think of at least two exemptions.

12 posted on 02/24/2009 7:07:15 AM PST by SolidWood (Palin: "In Alaska we eat therefore we hunt.")
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To: St. Louis Conservative
McGovern stuck to his principles as well. You have to redesign your message and to make it relevant to to each generation. We need a new mix and yes we need moderates too. We need to find new issues that will appeal to a majority of the people of this country as well as old ideas that work. And they need to express the values of the party and of its Base as well as moderates. Both the base and the swing voters are needed. We are not doing that but then again neither are the Dem's. As for the “rhino’s” they are needed but they need to be responsive to us as well. If not the people who are in the base (as on this board) will shut them out and that will be bad for all of us.
13 posted on 02/24/2009 7:07:28 AM PST by bilhosty (Welcome to Eat the Press)
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To: Professor_Leonide

Good post. The GOP has run a moderate at least the last three Presidential elections. We are a worse party because of that.


14 posted on 02/24/2009 7:12:48 AM PST by MBB1984
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To: bilhosty
McGovern stuck to his principles as well. You have to redesign your message and to make it relevant to to each generation.

In 1972, McGovern pulled in 46% of the 18 to 29 year old voters, while Nixon won 52% of those same 18 to 29 year olds.

15 posted on 02/24/2009 7:15:35 AM PST by ansel12 ( Am I the only freeper that has been held in an American internment center?)
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To: bilhosty
McGovern stuck to his principles as well. You have to redesign your message and to make it relevant to to each generation.

So did Stalin!

16 posted on 02/24/2009 7:24:21 AM PST by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: Nathan Zachary
Some of that blame also falls on RINO’S in the party ...

The republican party needs to become more discriminating. Not everyone who shows up with an elephant on his lapel should be admitted. People running for office, especially at the national level, need to be colloquized into the party. Republican need to be conservative, in thought, word, and deed.

17 posted on 02/24/2009 7:30:31 AM PST by RobinOfKingston (Democrats, the party of evil. Republicans, the party of stupid.)
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To: padre35
....has America fundamentally changed and moved away from Conservatism in the realms of finance, social issue, and national defense? I’m not certain to be honest about it, Conservatism was mainstream American Thought

Conservatism has never been and will never be mainstream. Conservatism is a disciplined way of thinking and acting.

It's tough love.

Liberalism is the natural drift of society. Toward sloth and corruption. As Limbaugh has said repeatedly "liberalism is easy".

Conservatism is hard. Conservatism reemerges during tough times when liberalism fails us, as it always will. That's when we return to daddy.


18 posted on 02/24/2009 7:51:35 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady of the North")
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To: RobinOfKingston

Conservatives make up about 35% of the electorate. If yo throw everyone else out you have permanent minority status. The moderates should be welcomed but they need to find ways to become responsive. Just as conservatives need to understand that Philly suburbs and just about every major geographical area north and east off their simply will not accept down the line conservatives anymore. we will have to develop a conservative line of thought that reflects the needs and cultural predisposition of that area. And they will have to find way to be responsive to the rest of us and we to them. Their is just no other way.The strength of the Reagan coalition is that it included those persons.The weakness of the present party is that it does not. Part of it was because The Dem’s lost the independents and the moderates and we have now made the same mistake. you have to appeal to a majority their is just no other way. McCain was a perfect example of how not to run the party he was not a moderate he was just a backstabber who stabbed his own people in the back.

Giuliani for instance found ways to relate his views to the majority of the people where he lived. But, he was responsive to conservatives when he lowered the taxes and the cost of government banned porn in times square and yelled bloody murder about the “piss Christ”. He also went law and order and did something about Crime. he was also responsive to most of the people in NYC who were not conservatives and Republican’s. he actually ended up with more actual accomplishments on conservative principles then the idiots we have in congress. In most areas of the country he would not have to take so many lib positions.

So there is an example of how to make conservatives responsive instead of just turning over large Dem areas to the ‘crats.


19 posted on 02/24/2009 8:06:17 AM PST by bilhosty (Welcome to Eat the Press)
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To: bilhosty
You have to redesign your message and to make it relevant to to each generation. We need a new mix and yes we need moderates too. We need to find new issues that will appeal to a majority of the people of this country as well as old ideas that work.

No we don't. We are Conservatives first. The party is merely a vehicle to advance Conservative Principles. Because those principles work.

As Goldwater said "we need a choice not an echo".


20 posted on 02/24/2009 8:08:06 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady of the North")
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To: bilhosty
he [Giuliani] actually ended up with more actual accomplishments on conservative principles then the idiots we have in congress. In most areas of the country he would not have to take so many lib positions.

He was my second choice behind Fred Thompson.

21 posted on 02/24/2009 8:14:35 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady of the North")
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To: St. Louis Conservative
As the Repubs continue to become more and more DemocRAT lite, they lose more and more seats in congress.

This is an attempt to further drive the Repubs into obscurity not get it back in power.

22 posted on 02/24/2009 8:21:24 AM PST by BillT (New Executive Order to abolish the WS Constitution to be signed to save the US Constitution)
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To: St. Louis Conservative
BLAH.BLAH.BLAH.

All this talk about what the Republican Party should be and the role conservatives have to play in it is a WASTE OF TIME.

The Republican and conservative brands were slowly destroyed over the past 8 years.

Think first about how to change the party's image and conservative's image.

23 posted on 02/24/2009 8:28:05 AM PST by mc6809e
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan
But what is a Conservative? Nevada is so Conservative (or at least it was so conservative before new Yorker's moved into las Vegas.)That they legalized prostitution gambling quickie marriages because they did not want governmnent intervention or regulation of any type including zoning and taxes and what ever. Ont the other hand Utah was and is so conservative that they would be the last state to recognize those vices. They are deeply steeped in the Judeo-christian ethic. But, on the other hand other hand a lot of christian conservatives would reject the Utah brand of Conservatism because they are Mormon. There were different strokes for different folks. there was a conservatism for everybody. politics is cultural expression and as we continue to define Conservatism as southern and small town evangelical types we lose every where else. In the last election we lost everything east of the Missouri and north of the Ohio except for Missouri. that is not because we weren't small town and southern enough. that is because we over identified with that form of being conservative.
24 posted on 02/24/2009 8:30:12 AM PST by bilhosty (Welcome to Eat the Press)
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan

Disagree, tough love is not simple common sense, Conservatism relies on it to prosper, tough love could be simply raising taxes on the wealthy to feather one’s own bed.

Which seems to be the message from the elections of 06 and 08.


25 posted on 02/24/2009 9:00:02 AM PST by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: bilhosty
But what is a Conservative?

Conservatism views mankind as capable of both good and evil. It encourages the good and resists the evil. It rejects pie in the sky utopias in favor of the tried and true.

Hence we support a strong national defense, free enterprise, and a belief in the necessity of civic and personal virtue and responsibility.

26 posted on 02/24/2009 9:12:16 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady of the North")
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To: padre35
tough love could be simply raising taxes on the wealthy to feather one’s own bed.

That's not love.... that's theft, greed and envy.

27 posted on 02/24/2009 9:18:58 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady of the North")
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To: SolidWood

Two exceptions????

I can only think of one example of bigger being better and all the ladies here will concur.


28 posted on 02/24/2009 9:44:13 AM PST by Professor_Leonide (I said to the young man who showed me a photo, "Who can ever be sure what is behind a mask?")
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan

Too funny.


29 posted on 02/24/2009 10:06:22 AM PST by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: Professor_Leonide

Yes this is one exception... and the second are the ladies... two assets.


30 posted on 02/24/2009 10:53:11 AM PST by SolidWood (Palin: "In Alaska we eat therefore we hunt.")
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan

That is a very wide statement and I know of no one in the GOP that disagrees.


31 posted on 02/24/2009 11:00:11 AM PST by bilhosty (Welcome to Eat the Press)
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To: bilhosty
That is a very wide statement and I know of no one in the GOP that disagrees.

There are plenty of moderates and RINOS who though they may give lip service to those principles, will not live up to them.

Would you believe this man if he said he would follow those "broad principles"?

Or would you conclude he's merely paying lip service to them?

Actions speak louder than words.


32 posted on 02/24/2009 12:45:05 PM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady of the North")
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To: lakertaker; SierraWasp; Carry_Okie; tubebender; Reagan Man
I remember many pundits in 1980 stating that Reagan could not win as he was too conservative for the nation

It is an old and tired mantra.

"You need a Republican who can win the confidence of the minorities and who also understands the big business of California.

"Anyone who is tied up with one segment of the political spectrum can't make it.

"It can't be done, it's an impossible task; if a man has this image the party is going to waste a lot of money all for naught.

-- George Christopher, 1965, during his campaign against Ronald Reagan for Governor of California
(source: "George Christopher Will Run as Matter of Principle" Los Angeles Times, June 21, 1965; p.3)

33 posted on 02/24/2009 1:14:45 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

Priceless, like most of the rest of the Ronald Reagan legacy!!!


34 posted on 02/24/2009 10:17:02 PM PST by SierraWasp (Remember THIS!!! Government doesn't have ANY money!!! (of it's own) I'm in contempt of CONgress!!!)
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To: SierraWasp
More:

Photobucket

35 posted on 02/24/2009 10:24:35 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: tubebender; Carry_Okie; NormsRevenge; Czar; ElkGroveDan

ping to above — From the California archives.


36 posted on 02/24/2009 10:27:39 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
YES!!! Even better!!!

We MUST push on that political pendulum until it swings to the RIGHT, lest we remain in the pits in perpetuity!!!

37 posted on 02/24/2009 10:28:51 PM PST by SierraWasp (Remember THIS!!! Government doesn't have ANY money!!! (of it's own) I'm in contempt of CONgress!!!)
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To: SierraWasp

It really amazes me that 40 years later the CAGOP liberals are using the same darn talking points. Had people listened to them, we never would have had Reagan.

This “only a moderate can win” crappola needs to be exterminated.


38 posted on 02/24/2009 10:39:43 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl; Syncro
Speaking of a flood of crappola... The California board seems to have been fed a load of that new cereal called Colon Blow!!!

I've been busy all last hour poundin my refresh button and I'm still not our of 2/17/2009, yet!!! That board must really have been constipated!!! (ducking)

You've had some pretty good postings on there for days and days that I've just read... interesting... fascinating!!!

39 posted on 02/24/2009 10:46:02 PM PST by SierraWasp (Remember THIS!!! Government doesn't have ANY money!!! (of it's own) I'm in contempt of CONgress!!!)
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To: calcowgirl
To be fair, the San Francisco Chronicle editorial board would surely have made that argument if only because George Christopher had been mayor of San Francisco.

"Favorite son" and all that.

40 posted on 02/24/2009 10:57:09 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The ship of state has a cargo of fools.)
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To: SierraWasp

I had to go look at the board and catch up. I hadn’t missed much.

Personally, I think we’re screwed in 2010 unless there is a major leadership change in the CRP. I read that Meg Whitman is planning on spending as much as $150,000,000 on the election. Poizner is rich enough to match it. Apparently PR and advertising matters more than ideas—Sadly.

They might as well just put an eBay “Buy it Now” tag on the ballot.


41 posted on 02/24/2009 11:06:34 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: Carry_Okie

Good point.


42 posted on 02/24/2009 11:07:31 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
You put it so succinctly!!!

Yes, there's been a serious time warp on the CA board. For awhile there, I hadn't even been to the CAGOP convention yet!!!

43 posted on 02/24/2009 11:08:37 PM PST by SierraWasp (Remember THIS!!! Government doesn't have ANY money!!! (of it's own) I'm in contempt of CONgress!!!)
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To: SierraWasp

I had forgotten the CA board even existed until last week, LOL.


44 posted on 02/24/2009 11:13:43 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

Dittos! The lights just went out in the Wasp’s nest!!!


45 posted on 02/24/2009 11:20:13 PM PST by SierraWasp (Remember THIS!!! Government doesn't have ANY money!!! (of it's own) I'm in contempt of CONgress!!!)
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To: calcowgirl
Bustamante!
46 posted on 02/25/2009 4:53:21 AM PST by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: calcowgirl

NICE SHOT!!!


47 posted on 02/25/2009 7:54:09 AM PST by tubebender (99% of Lawyers give the rest a bad name...)
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