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Star Children for Darwin
CEH ^ | February 28, 2009

Posted on 03/01/2009 10:55:11 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

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To: YHAOS

Depends how much carbon is in that clay or rock....

The material our flesh is made from is irrelevant, as no flesh shall enter heaven. It’s the living spirit, the life force given to the flesh by God that is what ultimately matters.

Rocks don’t have that living spirit in them, so they are not my cousin.


21 posted on 03/01/2009 11:54:24 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Salamander

LoL! That song came out around the same time as “the age of Aquarius” way back in the sixties when the UN earthers began it’s “Gaea” earth worship campaign and began promoting it through the schools. Around 1967, think.


22 posted on 03/01/2009 11:57:46 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: whattajoke

OK, I’m not sure I understand your 1st post then.

“Oh I think the chosen Daniel verse is excellent. But then Daniel gets all crazy with the end-times stuff and loses me.”

Daniel is such a great book.

“Like verses 11 & 12: “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.”

So meaningful. I couldn’t possibly do it justice. I would strongly a Bible study on Daniel. Chuck Missler’s is good: http://www.khouse.org/6640_cat/biblestudy/daniel/

“Daniel is probably the most interesting book of the OT, if not the bible.”

tough call!

“The Jewish version of the Apocalypse, it was written before Christ and purports to be prophetic, but forgot the part about Christ’s birth”

Christ is ALL over the OT.

“and the subsequent (much later) expansion of Christianity.”

Paul says something about that, the Church being a “mystery”. Again, a proper study would do it justice.


23 posted on 03/01/2009 11:58:09 AM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: GodGunsGuts

24 posted on 03/01/2009 11:58:11 AM PST by wolf78 (Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender)
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To: wolf78

The disease didn’t “evolve”. It mutated. Big difference. Evolve implies improvemnt. The disease didn’t improve, it’s still a virus, it didn’t grow arms and legs, a brain or otherwise “improve”. It just mutated into different strains. Adaptation is not evolution.


25 posted on 03/01/2009 12:06:07 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: shibumi
Your post exemplifies the type in inferred reasoning (meaning your assumptions about what I find laughable) that makes Darwinists so amusing.

Your inability to discern I was being sarcastic (about what you find laughable) noted.

Anyway, I've never quite figured out what a dead naturalist's ideas about the diversity of life has to do with the bible. I guess that's my problem.
26 posted on 03/01/2009 12:08:09 PM PST by whattajoke (.)
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To: chuck_the_tv_out
It's a religion, and it must not be tax funded.

Finally! Another one who "get's it." A worldview that pretends, against the weight of historic evidence, in a "uniformity of natural causes" as a Closed System. The latter is a belief, pure and simple, based upon no further evidence than a "feeling." And that makes it a religion, and as such, it mush not be promoted by the State.

A religion of non-religion is still a religion. Just as when choosing not to decide we make a choice.

Neutrality is an illusion.

27 posted on 03/01/2009 12:16:39 PM PST by Prospero (non est ad astra mollis e terris via)
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To: Nathan Zachary

I would call “greater resistance to drugs” an improvement in fitness.

That said, Doonesbury is like the comic strip included by the OP in that neither of them is really all that funny.


28 posted on 03/01/2009 12:22:04 PM PST by Boxen (There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.)
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To: Prospero
A religion of non-religion is still a religion.

That is absolutely true. Unfortunately, what you describe is a strawman and has little to do with science.
29 posted on 03/01/2009 12:35:31 PM PST by wolf78 (Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender)
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To: wolf78

One of the reasons Doonesbury’s cartoon falls so flat is that it has no basis in reality.

Louis Pasteur, who also happened to be a scientist who believed in the biblical account of creation...”discovered three bacteria: staphylococcus, streptococcus and pneumococcus. He developed vaccines against chicken cholera, anthrax, swine erysipelas, and rabies. His rabies treatment was tested on a man in 1885 for the first time.”


30 posted on 03/01/2009 12:44:51 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at. I see no mention of Tuberculosis in your little tidbit on M Pasteur.


31 posted on 03/01/2009 12:49:22 PM PST by Boxen (There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.)
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To: wolf78

that cartoon sets up a straw man & knocks it down.

microevolution is a fact. no creationist would debate that with you. a germ can become a slightly different germ. we can breed dogs. particular traits are brought out in the DNA code. no new data is involved. you couldn’t go from a chihuahua to an alsation for instance. you’ve isolated such a small part of the DNA at that point.

to jump from that to say a banana is related to a giraffe is, well, dumb.


32 posted on 03/01/2009 12:51:22 PM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: chuck_the_tv_out

“to jump from that to say a banana is related to a giraffe is, well, dumb.”

And why is that? What’s to keep an enormous number of very small changes from adding up into a big one?


33 posted on 03/01/2009 1:03:41 PM PST by Boxen (There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.)
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To: Boxen
because information can't appear from nowhere. 2nd law of thermodynamics. you can breed selective traits of an animal, sure. but the traits of a giraffe just don't exist in the banana code, and vice versa.

you seem basically honest about your understanding though (just a sunday evolutionist :). there are extremely good arguments against inter-special , or "macro" evolution.

under that theory, each "mutation" would have to be superior. so for example, how would a thing evolve a blowhole?



evolutionists claim that dolphins "evolved" from some kind of COW, which "crawled back INTO the sea" (most people don't know about that part! it's the only way evolutionists can explain sea creatures having mammal-like features) so, at what point do you get a blow hole? You can't have half a blow hole, or you're dead! The whole thing is preposterous. There are hundreds of impossible faults with the whole theory. The eye is another one, which Darwin himself admitted would be the downfall of his theory.
34 posted on 03/01/2009 1:16:43 PM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: chuck_the_tv_out
you couldn’t go from a chihuahua to an alsation for instance.

Of course you can't just "go" from a chihuaha to an alsatian, because going isn't a scientific term, just like you can't "go" from caucasiod to mongoloid humans. You can however breed chihuahuas and alsatians, because they are the same species, just different races.

Only if the offspring gradually becomes infertil, you are witnessing a seperation of species. Example: horse / donkey -> mule.
35 posted on 03/01/2009 1:19:02 PM PST by wolf78 (Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender)
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To: wolf78

“you couldn’t go from a chihuahua to an alsation for instance”

indeed. because the alsation code has been lost. you could never get an alsation from breeding chihuahua together, because you have selected out an extreme portion of the dog DNA.


36 posted on 03/01/2009 1:25:38 PM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: GodGunsGuts
Krause:
Accordingly, the two discoveries we herald this year carry an important message for our future: the intimate connections between humanity and the entire cosmos, as illustrated by both evolution and astronomy, suggest that the only sensible perspective of humanity is a global one. The need for a global perspective is of vital importance now, as we are the first generation in history that must seriously confront global limits to our future on Earth, from energy to climate change.

This strikes me as a totalitarian mindset. If you don’t have the right global perspective, you are simply wrong, and may not deserve any rights. It brings to mind the Star Trek movie with the Borgs, the cyber-people who physically connected to the collective. A related idea is communism, otherwise known as international socialism. Edward O. Wilson may be the world's foremost expert on ants. Once asked about communism, he replied “wrong species.” But once we accept that “the only sensible perspective is a global one,” we will have set the foundation for a world where humanity takes central direction, as with an ant colony or a bee hive. Many of us are convinced this is wrong. But what is the source of our conviction? It is our values. But how did we get our values? I think the historical answer is Judeo Christian thinking that links the individual to God.

CFH response to Krause:
Christians might call this a non-sequitur or a half-truth. They do not deny our connectedness, but explain it in terms of all creation (stars and humans) being the handiwork of a single Creator. And instead of seeing a global perspective as the only sensible option for humanity, they might take the very same observations and point out the duty of each individual to its Maker.

In other words, to better contrast with Krause, the only sensible perspective is that of the individual to his Maker.


37 posted on 03/01/2009 2:01:14 PM PST by ChessExpert (Barack Hussein Obama's America: the land of the regulated and the home of the taxed)
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To: whattajoke
"Anyway, I've never quite figured out what a dead naturalist's ideas about the diversity of life has to do with the bible. I guess that's my problem."

I suppose the inability to see the ramifications and conflicts engendered by two mutually opposing belief systems would be a problem.
38 posted on 03/01/2009 2:32:02 PM PST by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: Nathan Zachary
Rocks don’t have that living spirit in them, so they are not my cousin.

Not so, claim the wisemen of society, The Masters of the Universe. So I mock them with the expression. In the meantime, that ‘living spirit,’ of which they know not, goes elsewhere.

39 posted on 03/01/2009 3:01:23 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: chuck_the_tv_out
because information can't appear from nowhere. 2nd law of thermodynamics. you can breed selective traits of an animal, sure. but the traits of a giraffe just don't exist in the banana code, and vice versa.

What do you mean when you say "Information" and "Code"? Do you mean the genetic code of a living being? The most concise definition of the Second Law of Thermodynamics states:

the entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time

I fail to see what this has to do with genetic information. Perhaps you could you re-explain your position.

you seem basically honest about your understanding though (just a sunday evolutionist :).

I am an evolutionist only in that I find that modern evolutionary synthesis holds the most water when attempting to describe the diversification of life on earth. There is no feverishness on my part; no deification of Darwin. That'd be silly

there are extremely good arguments against inter-special , or "macro" evolution.

Well...OK. I'd be great if you could detail some for me.

under that theory, each "mutation" would have to be superior. so for example, how would a thing evolve a blowhole?

evolutionists claim that dolphins "evolved" from some kind of COW, which "crawled back INTO the sea" (most people don't know about that part! it's the only way evolutionists can explain sea creatures having mammal-like features) so, at what point do you get a blow hole? You can't have half a blow hole, or you're dead!

Dolphins and whales do not merely possess mammal-like features, they are mammals. They possess mammary glands as well as many other features characteristic of their land bound brethren.

Is it not possible that the nostrils migrated from the end of the snout to the top of the head?

Where did you read (or see) any biologist claiming that cetaceans "evolved from some kind of cow"?

The eye is another one, which Darwin himself admitted would be the downfall of his theory.

Really? Here are Darwin's own words:

To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree.

This seems to support your claim. But he continues:

Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself first originated; but I may remark that several facts make me suspect that any sensitive nerve may be rendered sensitive to light, and likewise to those coarser vibrations of the air which produce sound.

Which does not support your assertion. Darwin had no trouble believing that the eye could evolve from a simple bundle of light-sensitive cells to the complex biological machinery with which we are so familiar. And I agree with him.

40 posted on 03/01/2009 3:03:01 PM PST by Boxen (There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.)
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