Young conservatives misled on homosexual issue

What you're failing to realize is I'm not against libertarians, just the arrogant homonazis/atheist that disguise themselves easily as libertarians.

Well, that isn't exactly what you have been saying. I am not going to argue in defense of any homosexual agenda. It is typical liberal insanity. However, I don't think it is quite accurate to keep using libertarian to denote these people as it very quickly becomes misleading.

I think it is very important to make distinctions in this area. I have seen unbelievable numbers of otherwise sensible Freepers so caught up in hatred of these particular libertarians, meaning the extremist wackos and homosexual advocates, that they insist that libertarianism itself is an evil philosophy. But conservatism has always been libertarian, and rejecting such can only harm conservatism itself.

Ron Paul, a classical libertarian conservative, is a good example. Look at how many Freepers deride him and all he stands for. They do not listen to him or his ideas, and just attack him because he is a libertarian. I have even seen him accused of promoting homosexual causes too, which of course is untrue. But, because so many insist that libertarianism is one and the same with that agenda, he is said to be as well. And even though many libertarians really are homosexual advocates, and many because of how they apply their libertarian values, libertarianism itself is still not about homosexuality or any such thing. Libertarian conservatives, like myself, would inform their libertarian philosophy by their conservative moral values. Atheist or non-conservative libertarians do not have this benefit. But, when we speak of libertarianism as a philosophy it still refers to just the philosophy by that name, and not all the attendant principles which make up the person's entire position.

Right now I think the conservative movement has lost its libertarian foundation. But conservatism is not just morality. And just as libertarianism without moral values becomes anarchy or a celebration of the perverse, conservative morality without libertarianism will end up in tyranny of the self righteous.

Upon reading your postings would I be correct to conclude that your intent posting repeatedly on this thread is simply put to defend the “libertarian” philosophy?

I guess that may be the confusion here. As I understand it, Libertarians may or may not agree with supporting and advancing the homosexual agenda and still be upstanding card carrying Libertarians. Whereas the republican position is clearly against it...

If this is the case then we may be mixing apples and oranges if trying to debate BOTH Liberatrian philosophy and preventing the advancement of the homosexual agenda in the US. Maybe if you just set down your Libertarian hat for awhile and debate on point as to this topic I and others will see that you are probably in agreement all if not most of what is discussed....

When can we expect to see the libertarians defend this forum and repel the wacko social leftist (anything goes)libertarians? considering this is a Conservative site..

Upon reading your postings would I be correct to conclude that your intent posting repeatedly on this thread is simply put to defend the “libertarian” philosophy?

Yes and no. I posted on this thread stating my case that many "conservatives" who have conceded to the homosexual agenda on grounds of "civil rights" are in error. It is a gross misunderstanding of such rights to include homosexual marriage. I then continued to post in response to several very misguided attacks on libertarianism as supporting that agenda. It doesn't, and I have tried to set the record straight. There is simply way too much anti-libertarianism on this conservative forum. It approaches self-hatred, imho.

Maybe if you just set down your Libertarian hat for awhile and debate on point as to this topic I and others will see that you are probably in agreement all if not most of what is discussed....

Go back and read my first post on this thread, I think it is #12 or so, and see for yourself. I am firmly against the homosexual agenda, and conservatives and libertarians caving to it on grounds of "rights" are showing their ignorance of the issues involved. It is not a right, as I said, any more than being a college graduate is a right. Some feel called to take part, and some don't, but any who wish to get married can do so. But, I don't have to take off any hat to see things as they are.

It is certainly true that libertarianism can and does sometimes exist in a vacuum, uninformed by any concomitant values. It is a good but simple principle, like altruism, and as such can be carried to an extreme and abused. When this happens you end up with evils like anarchism or corporatism, whereas in the case of altruism you often find modern liberalism and its buddies communism and socialism. That doesn't always happen, but it certainly can. As wrong as these people are, they are not wrong for their libertarianism, anymore than liberals are wrong for their twisted altruism, but simply because they are applying good ideas poorly.

But, when libertarianism is coupled with a sound moral philosophy it becomes a wonderful restraint on tyranny. That is what conservatism is, a balanced view of strength, morality and libertarianism. BTW, morality includes altruism like the socialists as well, but again it is tempered by the libertarianism so as not to end up in the state sponsored theft of liberalism. Take any side too far and you will find totalitarianism, but kept together you will have a solid footing in which to lead and govern.

When can we expect to see the libertarians defend this forum and repel the wacko social leftist (anything goes)libertarians? considering this is a Conservative site..

I personally haven't seen any of these, but again since I have been accused so much on this thread of being a "home troll" I am dubious about how many such people there are. For all I know they simply say something which smacks of libertarian values and then get labeled as "wacko social leftists." I certainly was, and I am the polar opposite. At least one other person on this thread appeared to be so labeled as well, and that was also incorrect from what I saw. I think many people here are jumping at ghosts.

What I have seen a lot of though are posts in which conservatives focus solely on one issue and ignore solid core conservative values, i.e. libertarianism, and post wildly ridiculous tirades which border on totalitarian or statist rants. I feel the need to correct these people since they are no more "conservative" than are the Randian or anarcho-capitalist libertarians. But, I have never met any of the latter around here while the former are virtually ubiquitous.

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