Skip to comments.You and I Can't Buy the Guns Mexican Cartels Own
Posted on 03/04/2009 10:28:42 AM PST by atomic_dog
The Administration is Not Dealing Straight With Us on Mexico's Gun Problem
Let's set things straight right up front. Yes, some guns are being smuggled into Mexico from the U.S. Most are handguns. But, handguns are being illegally trafficked from state to state and from the U.S. to Canada. It should come as no surprise that guns are smuggled into Mexico. But, the problem being portrayed by the U.S. media and our government is not as it seems. You see, Mexico doesn't allow ownership of most firearms, so ordinary Mexican people seeking self-protection will find a way to get them into Mexico. As for the drug cartels operating in the border towns along the U.S., they have other sources for their weapons and have become the prime supplier within Mexico.
I worked in Mexico in a border town for about five years. It was far enough from San Diego County in the Sonora Desert of Mexico that commuting several hundred miles daily was impossible. So, for a few years I lived in the city and commuted home periodically on some weekends. As crime grew out of control, I eventually moved into a place on the U.S. side and commuted daily in and out of Mexico for my own safety.
I stayed in Mexico for a Mexican holiday my first year. I don't recall the holiday. Normally, I would leave Mexico for a holiday, but it was in the middle of the week and one day was not long enough to come home. All I know is that on that particular Mexican holiday, Mexicans love to fire guns into the air. That evening as I sat on the balcony of my hotel, the gun fire that erupted in celebration was quite unbelievable. It was so intense I backed off the balcony and watched the festivities from a couple three feet in the room. We're talking war-like firing of weapons, it was that intense.
As I listened that night to the gun fire, I was somewhat shocked at the amount of fully automatic gun fire. It wasn't sporadic. It was continuous throughout the city. For a country that bans guns I thought, how in the world did they get their hands on all these full-auto weapons? Clearly what sounded like M16 fire was prolific along with 7.62 x 39 AK autos with a smattering of smaller caliber full-autos, most likely 9mm. Gun fire can be heard in most American cities on New Years, but I've never heard full-auto weapons being fired, at least not in the San Diego area.
The next day I went into work and sat down with a trusted senior Mexican manager. I looked at him and said, "I thought guns were illegal in Mexico." He chuckled and said, "So you stayed in town last night?" As the conversation progressed, it became clear that guns are as common in Mexico as tamales at Christmas. Everyone he knows, including himself, own at least one gun. And, it matters not whether it's a semi-auto or fully automatic, they're all illegal, so why stop with semi-autos? Though clearly illegal in the states in most instances, a lot of Mexicans have more firepower in terms of military weapons than we can only dream of owning here.
As time went on, parties in the city at middle class Mexican homes become a way of life. Most Mexican managers in the plant knew I was a gun wonk. As it turns out, they couldn't wait to invite me over to their place on a Friday night to show me their collection. Semi-autos, some very high-end Sigs and other European handguns were not uncommon along with piles of old revolvers. I thought I had seen everything in the states, but in Mexico it's not uncommon for people to own full-auto military rifles. Everything from an M16, UZI machine pistols and the most popular, select-fire AK47 military rifles. These are not the so-called "assault weapons" you can buy at the local gun shop in the U.S., but full select-fire military-issue rifles. Now, I know you want to know and are dying to ask; Did I see any U.S. military-issue weapons stolen from the U.S. military? Not a single one was marked with U.S. military markings. Everything was marked with additional foreign markings on the receiver, including M16 rifles, or they had nothing at all. I saw firearms manufactured in Europe, China, Russia and South America along with U.S. manufactured weapons. I saw rifles that looked familiar with no place of manufacture, no serial number or manufacturer's logo. The information was not removed, it was never there to begin with. I can only assume they came from illegal arms manufacturers in India or Pakistan that produce copies of weapons. It was obvious that none of these firearms came from a U.S. gun shop in Tucson or San Diego. You couldn't buy them from a gun shop in the states if you tried.
It seems Mexicans have a rich heritage of firearms ownership prior to the ban in 1968. Despite the laws against owning them, they ignore it. Most Mexicans will say they need it for personal protection of themselves and their family. The other reason is they don't trust the government or local law enforcement. If they have to use it in their home for self-defense, whether they end up in jail is all dependent on how much money they can come up with, or who they know in the government. It also depends on who they shoot. But, given the alternative with high crime rates, most middle class Mexicans willingly and without reservations take the risk. Despite being able to own .22 caliber pistols or rifles, Mexican law requires them to be stored at an approved firing range. Where's the firing range I asked many times? No one knew of one. Where's the gun stores in town to buy legal guns? Gun stores? No one ever recalled seeing one anywhere in Mexico, let alone their city. I'm sure somewhere, maybe in Mexico City you might be able to buy a gun, but not in this city of almost 1.5 million residents. And the gun traffickers know it.
Where do ordinary Mexicans get their weapons? Most buy them from a 'friend' or a friend of a friend or cousin or uncle. Where the friend gets them is not talked about. But, it seems that drug cartels in Mexico are heavily involved in gun trafficking of military weapons and related hardware. And, who are these ordinary Mexicans? They range from people who work in factories as managers and senior managers, government workers, doctors, dentists and anyone with the financial means to buy a firearm. I even ran into a couple of government bureaucrats, one a lawyer for the federal government who owns firearms. He confirmed that people he knew in the government, some very highly ranked bureaucrats and politicians all own illegal firearms. The other works for the Mexican equivalent of the IRS. It's a way of life in Mexico. It seemed to me that you aren't in the 'in-crowd' in Mexico unless you own at least one firearm. I was amazed at the whole thing after believing for years that gun ownership in Mexico was non-existent. That is hardly the case.
All this flies in the face of news articles published by the U.S. media in the last week or two. Mexico's gun problems are a direct result of gun runners buying "assault weapons" in the U.S. and taking them into Mexico to arm drug cartels, says the U.S. media and government. That is a bunch of government and media nonsense. The cartels aren't arming themselves from U.S. gun stores with semi-auto AR15 and AK47 rifles. They've moved on up. Not to completely dismiss arms moving into Mexico from the U.S., but it is not as it seems when the U.S. media tells the story. The firearms moving across the border are semi-auto rifles and handguns sold to middle class or wealthy Mexicans seeking personal protection from criminals that have no connections in Mexico with gun runners. For the most part the wealthy in Mexico are targets of criminal elements, so they have no intention of connecting up with them to buy a self-defense firearm. You're better off buying a weapon from someone within the Mexican government than buying it from the criminal element, namely a drug cartel.
Cartels buy their arms from countries around the world, most any place where military weapons can be purchased on the black market, or from countries wishing to destabilize North America. They arm themselves from a worldwide black market of full auto military weapons including grenades, land mines and RPGs. They also "procure" their weapons from the less than savory from within the Mexican military.
The drug cartels can easily afford to fly their weaponry into Mexico using their own fleet of aircraft on to remote airfields, or land them on remote Mexican shores from their fleet of vessels. They do it with drugs all of the time. Drug cartels buying semi-auto AR15 or AK rifles from U.S. gun dealers is viewed as a joke by Mexico's drug cartel, most Mexicans, and unfortunately by the Mexican government. The only people fooled by all the political rhetoric are Americans listening to the likes of Attorney General Eric Holder and other anti-gun politicians.
Mexico has a gun problem, just like they have a drug problem and both the U.S. and Mexican governments are trying to place the blame on U.S. gun owners. U.S. gun owners aren't the problem. Mexico is the problem. The government is corrupt from the lowest level law enforcement officer shaking down American tourists for traffic violations, to officials and politicians highly placed within the Mexican government, including elements within the military. Everyone knows it. Everyone in Mexico knows it. Every law enforcement official in the U.S. knows it, and everyone in our government knows it. And anyone who has worked for any length of time within border cities and lived in the local community knows it. This is taking a Mexican problem, blaming the U.S. by turning it into a crisis in order further an agenda, and Eric Holder and President Obama knows it and they are taking advantage of it.
The next time you see a news report of illegal full-auto weapons and grenades being found here in the U.S., you know where they came from. It wasn't from a gun store in Tucson or Phoenix. The administration is right that gun trafficking along the U.S./Mexico border is a problem. Not only do we have drugs and illegal aliens coming in our southern border, but we also have military arms and explosives coming into our country illegally as well. That's the issue and our government is being disingenuous in its argument.
This AP news report published today is typical of what is going on. It is disgustingly biased and flat wrong: AP report for Detroit Free Press
Don't believe me and what I say? See what the Latin American Herald is saying about a recent arrest of cartel members and their weaponry in Mexico. No, the items listed weren't purchased at a gun store in Phoenix or Tucson. Grenades and RPGs are illegal in the U.S.: LAH Story
Otherwise you're right - Joe Doe Gun Owner can not.
I imagine it will be the same (or already is) for Mexico.
"Holder refused to speculate when legislation would move forward. "There are obviously a number of things that are -- that have been taking up a substantial amount of [Obama's] time, and so, I'm not sure exactly what the sequencing will be," he said."
I thought so!
I consider this an eyewitness account. Thanks. Very informative.
yes we can. it's just a matter of whether you have the contacts to buy such weapons illegally.
Sorry, couldn't resist. We used to use that line back in the day! The only reason the AP and other commie rags are running these stories and the reason Holder is bitching about them is to try to fool the American public, the non gun owning part of the American public, into accepting strict gun laws that take away ALL of our firearms. It is already illegal to won full auto weapons without a special permit, and most people aren't going to try and get one, and full autos are not available in most gun stores. Why would they carry something there is not much of a market for?
All lies with one aim, to disarm us folks, so bambi and the boys can do what they want with impunity.
If someone, including, and probably especially, the government, wants to disarm you they do NOT have your welfare in mind.
The purpose of a gun ban is to render the middle class defenseless against intimidation.
Translated this means,"We don't think we can push a bill through yet, but as soon as the fake attempt on the President's life is planned and carried out we will be able to ban anything we want!".
Look for it soon. Either that or they are trying to make things so miserable for the public that some nut case will try it on their own.
How can you do this without registering your lower?
You just brought to mind the Chinese (COSCO) container ship full of Klashnikov's (ostensibly destined for street gangs) that was busted at Long Beach during the Clinton administration.
Apparently the author hasn't spent New Year's Eve in Mira Mesa. There was plenty of fully automatic fire at the start of 1998 & 1999 in Mira Mesa. At the 1998 transition, a neighbor emptied two 15 round mags from a semi-auto pistol into the air. That was obviously fired one at a time. The full auto stuff came from a location further south. It had the perfect auto cadence of an AK-47. The dunce easily emptied a complete 30 rd mag into the air.
Oh, I believe the Left's intent is to go way beyond Intimidation.
Remember, Ayers said we need to get rid of about 25 million people.
That would include us.
And Ayers isn't just some blathering loon.
I'm a news junkie, but I guess I missed that one. I'll have to do a search to see if that story is still around.
Were specific gangs or demographics mentioned at the time?
"I thought guns were illegal in Mexico." He chuckled and said, "So you stayed in town last night?" As the conversation progressed, it became clear that guns are as common in Mexico as tamales at Christmas. Everyone he knows, including himself, own at least one gun. And, it matters not whether it's a semi-auto or fully automatic, (since) they're all illegal, why stop with semi-autos? Though clearly illegal in the states in most instances, a lot of Mexicans have more firepower in terms of military weapons than we can only dream of owning here.
Lets review (since) they're all illegal, why stop with semi-autos?
Anything resembling a thought or clue going on with yall? Perhaps those bans that violate the Second Amendment are not such a good idea after all?
“And Ayers isn’t just some blathering loon.”
Yes he is.
If you “google” COSCO + AK-47’s, you’ll get articles about it from several sources.
You don't have to go that far south. When the civil wars in Central America ended in the early '90s all of the rebels - FMLN guys with their former ARVN and ES M16s, FDN guys with their Egyptian and Chinese AKs, Guatemalans with whatever they had, were all supposed to turn their weapons in to their respective governments. The guerrillas where broke peasants and those rifles were the most valuable things they owned. Want to guess what portion of them were turned in? A few of these guns turned up in Chiapas, Mexico in 1994 but most of them as still sloshing around Latin America looking for a home.
Gun control works as well in Latin America as it does here. The more stringent the bans the greater the effort exerted to get around them.
Ayers is almost single-handedly responsible for the subversion and destruction of the US public educational system.
That's not someone to underestimate.
“It seems Mexicans have a rich heritage of firearms ownership prior to the ban in 1968. Despite the laws against owning them, they ignore it.”
Of course they ignore the law. Their entire culture exists on ignoring the law. That’s why they have no respect for ours.
As for where Mexico is getting guns, they are trade partners with Iraq and China. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that Mrs. Blum’s (diane fienstien)gun import business isn’t supplying some of them. He supplied some for the Iraq war.
That don't matter. It's the thought that counts. All that matters is that the sheep are scared to death of everything, and that the messiah's jack boots prefer no effective opposiiton.
Actually it was the Port of Oakland in 1996. The name of the ship was the Empress Phoenix.
Newsmax has the story from 2006 but I can’t find it o the Oakland Trib or SF Chron sites.
I found this one sentence from the NewsMax article noteworthy..."It was the largest seizure of fully operational automatic weapons in the history of U.S. law enforcement."
Very enlightening read.
****”Klashnikov’s (ostensibly destined for street gangs)”
I’m a news junkie, but I guess I missed that one. I’ll have to do a search to see if that story is still around.
Were specific gangs or demographics mentioned at the time? ***
I remember it. It was under the Clinton administration. All the gun magazines and Gun Week had the story.
If you want on, or off this S. Texas/Mexico ping list, please FReepMail me.
***I’m a news junkie, but I guess I missed that one***
Were you around when the Treasury department raided a secret factory in So-Cal and found them making full auto sub machine guns without a license for shipment to Latin America?
It happened about the same day that Robert Kennedy got shot, 1968.
Remember when some Central American military officers tried to sell twenty thousand full auto submachine guns to American mobsters (undercover agents) back in the 1970’s?
Lots more going on than we realize!
I would guess the the National Firearms Act of 1934 exceeded that amount of seizures.
***It seems Mexicans have a rich heritage of firearms ownership prior to the ban in 1968.***
Wasn’t this in 1956? I remember reading of a Texas rancher buying lots of Ruger .22 pistols and Winchester .30/30’s in the US to trade in Mexico for old antique Colt Peacemakers that were supposed to be turned in to the Mexican Govt.
Yeah, I could get a stamp here also even though I am in CA(northern CA, the citidal of conservatism in CA)but who can afford a 1936 Thompson that is completely worn out anyway!
Thanks for your posts.
Needless to say, the major media isn't bothering to tell the masses about all this.
Their bias is criminal.
That was my feeling when I looked at what was for sale. It was probably "ok" quality the day it was manufactured. Something I might give $400 to purchase new today if prices weren't off the wall due to regulations. It was certainly not worth $14,000 in its well worn condition.
I would really like an M-14. Select fire or demilled into a semi-auto. Too bad the "policy" is to destroy perfectly good rifles. A Springfield National Match M1A or a Fulton Armory variant would be a nice addition to the collection.
***Needless to say, the major media isn’t bothering to tell the masses about all this.
Their bias is criminal. ****
Remember in the 1990’s when Clinton banned the import of Chinese rifles and ammo? The Feds raided a warehouse and carted away boxcar loads of ammo as illegal. The news media really played it up with videos of the box cars that were confiscated!
Then someone looked at the head stamps on the ammo. Uh-Uho. Legal Russian ammo. they had to give it back. No mention from the MSM.
“Translated this means,”We don’t think we can push a bill through yet, but as soon as the fake attempt on the President’s life is planned and carried out we will be able to ban anything we want!”.
Look for it soon. Either that or they are trying to make things so miserable for the public that some nut case will try it on their own.”
NAIL ON HEAD.
I have long advocated that the left orchestrates gun incidents in order to pass their anti-gun agendas. Witness: Mail order guns were a big deal in 1950s and early 1960s left wing agenda. Pres Kennedy is shot with a mail order gun(at least we think he was) and the bill passes. They need more gun control so Robert Kennedy is shot by an arab and gun control 1968 is passed. I will not go on but believe I am speaking the truth when I say the left manufactures the events that allow them to pass draconian laws against firearm ownership.
Or China. China makes an M-16 Clone, for export only. They don't use it. At first they were only "near clones", with different grip, buttstock, and front sight.
Now they are much closer, at least in appearance.
Iran also produced a direct copy of the earlier Chinese near clone above. -
I’m not sure you want an M-1A. Compare the handling characteristics of an AR-10 to the M-1A and I believe you will want the AR-10.
Iran still produces the Chinese M-4 lookalike. If I remember correctly, a Iranian commando team was found with these in Iraq.
I've looked at an AR-10, but I've never fired one at the range. How does the bolt stand up to long term use? Apparently the AR-15 with the 7.62x39 upper gives the bolt assembly quite a beating. What are the relative pros/cons of the AR10 vs M1A?
Not a problem. The M-1A doesn’t have any of the good handling ability of the AR-10. Even the Garand has a better balance than the M-1A.
The M-1A also has the problem of needing an armorer to continue it’s accuracy. Look at the repair books for the Garand and the M1A. They have about four hundred pages. The books on the AR series mostly cover reloading.
Just make sure you buy a later version. The earlier versions had a problem with the ramp feed. If you get one that has problems, the guys at Armalite are more than happy to honor the warrantee.
My son owns the AR-10. I’m stuck with the M-1A.
An interesting report that badly needs editing.