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At it again: Anti-gunners trying to demonize yet another class of firearms
Seattle Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 4 March, 2009 | Dave Workman

Posted on 03/05/2009 3:30:39 AM PST by marktwain

First it was “plastic guns” that critics, including perennial anti-gun Senator Edward M. Kennedy, hysterically claimed could become the weapon of choice of terrorist because they did not show up on x-ray machines. But the “plastic gun” turned out to be a myth, and the pistol once called a “terrorist weapon” for its use of polymer components around a steel frame – the Glock – is now the choice of American police officers. Then it was the “semiautomatic assault-weapon,” pilloried in the press because it looked like a military firearm and had some cosmetic features some people didn’t like, and this allowed the fear-peddlers at the Violence Policy Center (VPC) an opportunity to confuse people and gull them into supporting a ten-year ban that accomplished nothing, especially when it came to protecting the lives of police officers. One law enforcement expert debunked claims by the gun prohibition lobby that these semiautomatic firearms – which function identically to grandpa’s Remington or Browning shotgun he used to hunt ducks and geese – are “the weapons of choice” of criminals.

I can tell you that the claim that AK-47s or something called an ‘assault weapon’…is widely used by criminals, isn’t true and never has been true. The buzz-phrase became “you don’t need an assault rifle to hunt ducks,” when any hunter could tell you that it’s illegal to hunt ducks with a rifle, anyway, while any gun rights activist will note that the Second Amendment is not about duck hunting, and that “It’s the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.” Next up was the so-called “.50-caliber Sniper Rifle,” which gun banners portrayed with the proper degree of paranoia as the gun terrorists would use to bring down passenger jets. There has never been a single recorded incident of such magnitude, and according to Wikipedia, “the ViolencePolicyCenter is only able to document 4 actual uses of .50 BMG rifles by criminals.” Now, VPC’s Tom Diaz, who has made a career demonizing different firearms, is now going after a class of large-caliber handguns developed solely for big game hunting (thus deflating another myth of the anti-gun lobby, that handguns are designed only for shooting people). Like the terms “assault rifle” “plastic handguns” and “sniper rifle,” Diaz has invented a slur term for the huge handguns, dubbing them “vest busters.” This alludes to the claim that bullets fired from such handguns will penetrate soft body armor worn by police officers. It is no accident that every time the gun ban lobby launches a campaign to ban one type of gun or another, it camouflages the campaign with claims that “it’s to protect children” or “it threatens the safety of law enforcement officers.” Yet the VPC even acknowledges that handgun bullets do not constitute a threat to police wearing bullet resistant vests.

During the 1990 to 1999 period, 20 law enforcement officers were killed by gunshot wounds as a result of rounds penetrating their body armor. All of these rounds were fired from rifles.

Sadly, Michael Steele, former Maryland lieutenant governor and now head of the Republican National Committee, has also fallen for the mantra of gun prohibitionists. He has also alienated millions of gun owners – an important “base” voting bloc for Republicans – by stating, “What do you need an assault weapon for, if you’re going hunting? That’s overkill.” Steele exhibited a horrid ignorance of competition shooting, along with the increasing use of AR-15 type rifles for varmint hunting and predator control, especially in the West, by a new generation of shooters brought up with such rifles. According to the Associated Press and Seattle Times, Congressional Democrats currently have little interest in pushing gun control, and Steel should follow their lead. Don’t sucker for the new campaign to demonize a class of guns. In a society that condemns racial or religious bigotry, anti-gunners should not get a pass by practicing social bigotry against firearms, and the people who own them. Considering the racist origins of gun control, one would think that new attempts to demonize specific firearms might be met with the same disgust we would feel about demonizing specific classes of people.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anti; banglist; guncontrol; revolver
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I remember as each of these scares was introduced. They are all based on the premise that guns are evil and must be eliminated from society. Guns are always: Too small or too big or too cheap, either too effective or not effective enough. They are all just ways to delegitimize guns in general.
1 posted on 03/05/2009 3:30:39 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Yea, but man have these guys convinced me to buy a lot of cool stuff over the years.


2 posted on 03/05/2009 3:37:03 AM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: marktwain
Bookmark for discussion in my classes today.
3 posted on 03/05/2009 3:44:46 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: marktwain
Michael Steele, former Maryland lieutenant governor and now head of the Republican National Committee, has also fallen for the mantra of gun prohibitionists. He has also alienated millions of gun owners – an important “base” voting bloc for Republicans – by stating, “What do you need an assault weapon for, if you’re going hunting? That’s overkill.” Steele exhibited a horrid ignorance of competition shooting, along with the increasing use of AR-15 type rifles for varmint hunting and predator control, especially in the West, by a new generation of shooters brought up with such rifles.
But that's not the point, is it?

Isn't the point the Second Amendment?

How could this writer choose varmint hunting over the Second Amendment as his stated justification for the right of Americans to own "AR-15 type rifles"?

4 posted on 03/05/2009 3:52:32 AM PST by samtheman
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To: marktwain

To paraphrase Ronald Reagan: I didn’t leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me.

Michael Steele was some good positions on some issues, but, if the intent of his becoming the national chair was to united the party and solidify its conservative base, it was a terrible choice; because Michael Steele is only a conservative on some fiscal matters. On the 2nd Amendment he is atrocious, and the 2nd Amendment is up at the top of my list of “line-in—the-sand” issues. Let’s face it: Without the 2ns Amendment we are just subjects, and it’s a very thin line between subject and slave. Me, I’d rather be a free citizen, and the 2nd Amendment guarantees that. Remember Jefferson’s words: “When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is freedom.”


5 posted on 03/05/2009 3:55:42 AM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: MileHi
True story. I first heard about Glocks from a scary story told by some gun-banning group. I just had to have one

Now, I have a few.

6 posted on 03/05/2009 3:57:18 AM PST by muir_redwoods ( O.B.A.M.A. = One Big Asinine Mistake, America)
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To: ought-six

Uh, that should be “Michael Steele HAS some good positions....” and not “Michael Steele WAS some good positions....”


7 posted on 03/05/2009 3:57:26 AM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: muir_redwoods

Same reason I bought my Russian SKS. That started my “ugly rifle” collection.


8 posted on 03/05/2009 4:02:16 AM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: samtheman

The more I hear about Steele, the more my decision to leave the GOP last year is reinforced. They STILL don’t get it....


9 posted on 03/05/2009 4:02:20 AM PST by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Requiescat In Pace)
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To: marktwain

Steele is a was te of time.

GET RID OF HIM!

He’s another black RHINO.

Recall Colin Powell.

Recall J.C.Watts

It’s the same problem all over again. Will the GOP EVER LEANR?


10 posted on 03/05/2009 4:02:23 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: marktwain
> “It’s the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.”
It’s the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs or Privileges.
11 posted on 03/05/2009 4:02:26 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Obama needs to Fail !)
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To: Kozak

I don’t feel like I’ve “left the GOP”. I’ve NEVER given money to the RNC. I’ve only given money to candidates, and voted for candidates... all of whom happened to have an R beside their name because I never saw a D I liked. Ever.

And that won’t change.

What will change for me is that from now on if the R is a RINO I’m going to vote 3rd party. There’s always a conservative 3rd party alternative and that’s who I’ll vote for if my only choice is voting for someone like McStupid, who I did vote for in the last election.


12 posted on 03/05/2009 4:07:02 AM PST by samtheman
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To: samtheman
What-you-said bump.

In addition, Steele displayed his ignorance with the "overkill" remark. In fact, assault weapons represent "underkill" in a lot of cases. Even full-sized battle rifles sometimes don't get it done, as in the case of the Air Force enlisted man 50-some years ago who, bored to tears at his Alaskan outpost, decided to go bag himself a polar bear and drew an M-1 and several clips of mil-spec ball ammo.

He found the bear, and the search party found his rifle. In two pieces. They never found him, just a mess of pink snow and some empty clips.

People on this thread will correct me, but for polar bear, he probably needed something at least as stout as .338 Win. Mag., and preferably even more gun than that, maybe in the range of .375 H&H.

13 posted on 03/05/2009 4:09:50 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: nmh
I'll give you Powell, but why do you think J.C. Watts is a RiNO?
14 posted on 03/05/2009 4:11:51 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: marktwain

just before the first assault weapon ban, I went out and bought an SKS, just because clintoon said I shouldn’t...my kids were young then, and asked me about the weapons ban ( they were learning about it in school ) i took my SKS, and showed it to them, and told them it was not an assault rifle, I then took the bayonet i bought for it, put it on the rifle, and told them that now it was an assault rifle....they laughed and took that info back to school..the idiot teachers stopped talking about it after that


15 posted on 03/05/2009 4:13:01 AM PST by joe fonebone (When you ask God for help, sometimes he sends the Marines.)
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To: muir_redwoods

You DID have a few...until they were stolen.


16 posted on 03/05/2009 4:31:35 AM PST by willgolfforfood
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To: marktwain
Michael Steele....head of the Republican National Committee....alienated millions of gun owners....by stating, “What do you need an assault weapon for, if you’re going hunting? That’s overkill.”

How the hell did Republicans allow themselves to be led by such an idiot - at a time when we need all the clear thinkers we can find.
Has there ever been a more clueless RNC Chair????

17 posted on 03/05/2009 4:33:10 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: lentulusgracchus
People on this thread will correct me, but for polar bear, he probably needed something at least as stout as .338 Win. Mag.,

For polar bears of "Alaskan Brown Bears" (Kodiak), the preferred weapon is belt-fed.

Actually, he probably would have been OK if he had soft-point ammo.

There's an outfitter in Russia in the neighborhood of the Kamchatka penninsula who advertises bear hunts, where the object of the hunt is the twin brother of the Kodiak bears, and he specifies the .30-'06 as the minimum cartridge.

18 posted on 03/05/2009 4:34:09 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Air Force enlisted man 50-some years ago who, bored to tears at his Alaskan outpost, decided to go bag himself a polar bear and drew an M-1 and several clips of mil-spec ball ammo. He found the bear, and the search party found his rifle. In two pieces. They never found him, just a mess of pink snow and some empty clips. People on this thread will correct me, but for polar bear, he probably needed something at least as stout as .338 Win. Mag., and preferably even more gun than that, maybe in the range of .375 H&H. My dad successfully hunted many a Grizzly Bear and moose with his Model 70 chambered in 30-06, the same round the M-1 uses. ANd I'm pretty sure he was using surplus ammo as that's the only 30-06 ammo I ever saw around our house. I still have the rifle and 1/2 crate of ammo that he left me. Maybe the enlisted guy in your story was a bad shot, or, maybe the bear, or it's friend, successfully hunted him. That's one of the real dangers of big game, they see you as dinner thus why most big gamers will not hunt alone.
19 posted on 03/05/2009 4:45:24 AM PST by SirFishalot
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To: DuncanWaring

RPG, if you can get one!


20 posted on 03/05/2009 4:47:08 AM PST by catman67
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To: marktwain

“...and that “It’s the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.””

Yep, that’s correct. And, therefore, all the Anti-gunners should just shut up. I don’t NEED to justify why I own my firearms. And, I don’t have to demonstrate any sort of NEED in order to possess my firearms. Such possession is a RIGHT guaranteed to me, and such right is journalized in the Second Amendment to the Constitution. It is concise; it is succinct; it is unambiguous.


21 posted on 03/05/2009 4:47:49 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: marktwain
What do you need an assault weapon for, if you’re going hunting?

North American Rinos?

22 posted on 03/05/2009 4:48:36 AM PST by bmwcyle (Obama voters, your 401 K's are dead. Now what?)
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To: MileHi
Yea, but man have these guys convinced me to buy a lot of cool stuff over the years.

Funny how that works. There was a thread yesterday linked to a YouTube video that ran the firearm purchase numbers and, for sake of comparison, noted that in 2008, Americans bought enough guns to equip the armies of China and India combined.

23 posted on 03/05/2009 4:54:43 AM PST by Charles Martel ("Endeavor to persevere...")
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To: marktwain

Dump Steele


24 posted on 03/05/2009 4:56:58 AM PST by Obamageddon (Birth certificate and college transcripts will be required for Federal employment, Mr. Soetero)
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To: marktwain

Don’t forget “cop-killer bullets”, another fantasy term recently revived by AG Eric Holder.


25 posted on 03/05/2009 4:59:45 AM PST by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: marktwain
Time for me to brouse through the Heckler & Koch brochure some more.
26 posted on 03/05/2009 5:06:50 AM PST by MountainDad
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To: marktwain
Now, VPC’s Tom Diaz, who has made a career demonizing different firearms, is now going after a class of large-caliber handguns developed solely for big game hunting...

The other thing the VPC and Brady people are trying to demonize is the FN 5.7 mm with its "armor piercing cop killer bullets".

With a bullet weight of just 40 grains and Muzzle Energy of just 313 foot pounds, less than the 323 foot pounds of a typical 115 grain fmj 9mm round and well short of the 434 foot pounds of a 125 gran 9mm+p JHP corbon bullet, the 5.7 "Duty Round" may penetrate armor but lacks adequate stopping power for personal defense. With a very flat trajectory it would probably make a great target pistol though.

The other thing it has going for it is a 20 round magazine - and a price tag of only $1230.24!


27 posted on 03/05/2009 5:09:16 AM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Be There >>> http://www.secondamendmentmarch.com)
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To: lentulusgracchus

A friend was in the same position about that long ago and all the remote AF station had was M-1 Carbines.

Practically usless for anything larger than a woodchuck.


28 posted on 03/05/2009 5:09:41 AM PST by CPOSharky (Zero: I don't care about the country as long as I'm in charge. Forever.)
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To: marktwain
Yes, big bore handguns can be necessary in Alaska.

PhotobucketPhotobucket

Trophy bear (killed in self defense).This man works for the US Forest Service in Alaska .

He was out deer hunting last week when a large grizzly bear charged him from about 50 yards away. The guy emptied his 7mm Magnum semi-automatic rifle into the bear and it dropped a few feet from him. The big bear was still alive so he reloaded and shot it several times in the head.

The bear was just over one thousand six hundred pounds. It stood 12' 6' high at the shoulder, 14' to the top of his head. It's the largest grizzly bear ever recorded in the world.

Of course, the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Commission did not let him keep it as a trophy, but the bear will be stuffed and mounted, and placed on display at theAnchorage airport to remind tourists of the risks involved when in the wild.

Based on the contents of the bear's stomach, the Fish and Wildlife Commission established the bear had killed at least two humans in the past 72 hours including a missing hiker.

The US Forest Service, backtracking from where the bear had originated, found the hiker's 38-caliber pistol emptied. Not far from the pistol were the remains of the hiker. The other body has not been found.

Although the hiker fired six shots and managed to hit the grizzly with four shots (the Service ultimately found four 38 caliber slugs along with twelve 7mm slugs inside the bear's dead body), it only wounded the bear and probably angered it immensely.

The bear killed the hiker an estimated two days prior to the bear's own death by the gun of the Forest Service worker.

Think about this: If you are an average size man; you would be level with the bear's navel when he stood upright. The bear would look you in the eye when it walked on all fours!
To give additional perspective, consider that this particular bear, standing on its hind legs, could walk up to an average single story house and look over the roof, or walk up to a two story house and look in the bedroom windows.

29 posted on 03/05/2009 5:11:53 AM PST by Pistolshot (The Soap-box, The Ballot-box, The Jury-box, And The Cartridge-Box ...we are past 2 of them.)
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To: Charles Martel
There was a thread yesterday linked to a YouTube video ...

Got a handy reference to that one?

30 posted on 03/05/2009 5:16:09 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: bmwcyle
What do you need an assault weapon for, if you’re going hunting?

never seen a pack of coyotes, have you? an AR15 is just what the doctor ordered
31 posted on 03/05/2009 5:16:46 AM PST by absolootezer0 (thank God for Chicago: makes Detroit look wholesome by comparison.)
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To: samtheman
The new proposed AWB has a clause that says that any gun ever used by the military will be outlawed. So here's on for all the Second Amendment is for hunting types. The military uses Remington 700 series weapons as the basis for sniper weapons. REMINGTONN 700’s WILL BE ILLEGAL WHEN IT PASSES!!!

Oh and Michael Steele is a first order JACKA$$!

32 posted on 03/05/2009 5:17:00 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Watch the silly Reps chase the Dead Fish!!!)
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To: PubliusMM
Such possession is a RIGHT guaranteed to me,...

With emphasis on the word "guaranteed", not "granted".

33 posted on 03/05/2009 5:17:52 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Pistolshot
OMG! What a bear! We have been bear hunting in British Colombia and I have seen how fast these guys can move. If you didn't see him coming and be ready to shoot, he could be on top of you so quick.
34 posted on 03/05/2009 5:22:26 AM PST by Ditter
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To: joe fonebone
The term “assault weapon” was fabricated by Congress to define and ban the production of a class of semiautomatic firearms with a pistol grip and detachable magazine and/or a folding or collapsing stock, bayonet lug or a flash suppressor.

An “assault rifle” is a term used for military rifles that may or may not have the features listed above but also have a selective fire capability that would make them machine guns under federal law.

BTW, a unmodified SKS at the moment is neither.

35 posted on 03/05/2009 5:25:23 AM PST by bruoz
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To: SirFishalot
I think that the M1 referred to was a M1 carbine with 15 round magazines. .30 carbine is more like a pistol round, about a .357 magnum.
36 posted on 03/05/2009 5:25:23 AM PST by smithandwesson76subgun (full auto fun)
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To: marktwain

meh... Whatever.


37 posted on 03/05/2009 5:27:01 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Te odeo, interfice te cochleare)
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To: Ditter
A number of years ago on The American Sportsman, there was a Polar Bear hunt with some well known country singer. He was carrying a 338 Win Mag, while his Inuit guide was carrying an old Hawken black powder in 50 cal. There was some joking about it.

They found a reasonable trophy bear to take and the singer proceeded to shoot. It was a good shot as the camera showed the hit about shoulder high. Problem is it only made the bear angry and he charged the crew.

The shooter went to chamber a second round and jammed the rifle. The camera crew was backing away in panic, and the guide calmly raised his Hawken, fired, and dropped the bear at their feet.

38 posted on 03/05/2009 5:30:52 AM PST by Pistolshot (The Soap-box, The Ballot-box, The Jury-box, And The Cartridge-Box ...we are past 2 of them.)
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To: marktwain

Posted: Wednesday, 04 March 2009 8:03PM

Shooting At Gun Store, Chief Baing On The Case

by Bob Roberts

Chicago WBBM Newsradio 780

A would-be thief allegedly picked the wrong store to hold up in Waukegan.

A gun shop.

Waukegan Police Cmdr. Wayne Walles said police have reviewed security video, talked with witnesses and staff at Schrank’s Smoke ‘n Guns Shop, 2010 Washington St., and can only conclude that an as-yet unidentified man was trying to rob the store.

“The subject went behind the counter and became engaged with a store clerk in a verbal altercation that turned physical,” he said. “At one point the store clerk produced a pistol and fired at the subject, striking him twice in the chest and once in the leg.”

A gun shop employee also suffered a graze wound, but when police arrived, the clerk and several others in the store still had guns trained on the alleged thief.

Waukegan Fire Department paramedics transported the man to Vista West Medical Center, but a Flight for Life helicopter transferred him almost immediately to Lutheran General Hospital, in Park Ridge, where he was undergoing surgery as of 6 p.m.

The Smoke ‘n Guns Shop’s employees carry weapons openly and police said the owner is a marksman who teaches shooting classes.

As of 6 p.m., Waukegan Police Chief William Biang (like “bang”) and other top officials were conferring with prosecutors to determine what charges, if any, to place. Police refused to identify anyone involved, pending a decision.
http://www.wbbm780.com/Shooting-At-Gun-Store—Chief-Baing-On-The-Case/3962344


39 posted on 03/05/2009 5:39:47 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: nmh; lentulusgracchus
Steel and Powell, I'll buy as RINOS. However, I have never seen anything from J.C. Watts that made me view him as anything other than a solid conservative.

If you have any evidence that J.C. Wattts is a RINO, post it -- or retract your statement -- publicly, here on FR. (Or did you include Watts simply because he, too, is black...?)

40 posted on 03/05/2009 5:44:26 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: Pistolshot
A few years ago on one of our bear hunts, we were watching a mountain grizzly who was down a steep slope about 50 feet below us. There were 5 of us, 2 guides, an Indian tracker, my husband and I was the only one without a gun. The bear could have made it up that slope in about 2 seconds if he had wanted to. He was big not not as big as the grizzly post here. Wow! I can't wait to show this one to Mr. Ditter.
41 posted on 03/05/2009 5:47:16 AM PST by Ditter
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To: bruoz

when i did this with my children, clintoon was president, the rifle had a lug for a bayonet...that was not illegal at the time, but actually attaching the bayonet made it an assault rifle


42 posted on 03/05/2009 5:54:00 AM PST by joe fonebone (When you ask God for help, sometimes he sends the Marines.)
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To: marktwain

Do they realize how good 20 dead in 9 years is?


43 posted on 03/05/2009 6:06:03 AM PST by wastedyears (April 21st, 2009 - International Iron Maiden Day)
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To: absolootezer0

Deer hunting with an AK-47 can be fun.


44 posted on 03/05/2009 6:10:44 AM PST by bmwcyle (Obama voters, your 401 K's are dead. Now what?)
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To: Charles Martel

Doesn’t China have a million-man army? What about that of India? I imagine there were more numbers run than that.


45 posted on 03/05/2009 6:11:49 AM PST by wastedyears (April 21st, 2009 - International Iron Maiden Day)
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To: Pistolshot

I really hope you have a link to that story somewhere so I can post it elsewhere.


46 posted on 03/05/2009 6:14:01 AM PST by wastedyears (April 21st, 2009 - International Iron Maiden Day)
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To: MileHi

Years ago, I bought a ChiCom SKS and 1000rds at a gun show. Told the vendor “Thank you, sir ... and Fsck You, Sarah Brady”.


47 posted on 03/05/2009 6:14:47 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Mad, some lever-actions are banned. And probably H&H rifles as well.


48 posted on 03/05/2009 6:15:30 AM PST by wastedyears (April 21st, 2009 - International Iron Maiden Day)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

I held the FN 5.7 pistol on Sunday - They needed to get $1400 for it. It is on my purchase list.


49 posted on 03/05/2009 6:24:21 AM PST by Damifino (The true measure of a man is found in what he would do if he knew no one would ever find out.)
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To: Damifino

What makes it attractive to you?

I’ll admit I like the idea of a 20 round mag and I suspect it will be a very accurate handgun but I can’t see spending that kind of money on something that gives me a .224 caliber, 40 grain bullet with less stopping power than a 9mm.


50 posted on 03/05/2009 6:32:40 AM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Be There >>> http://www.secondamendmentmarch.com)
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