Hebrew Date Gets Acquittal (You're REALLY Older In The Hebrew Calendar Alert)

Israel National News ^ | 3/05/2009 | Hillel Fendel

[goldstategop]

The Traffic Court in Nazareth acquitted a young man who drove four passengers - because he was 21 according to the Hebrew date.

The story began in September 2007, when Chaim Frankel was stopped by a policeman for a random check – and was found to be in violation of the law for carrying four passengers. The law states that drivers under age 21 may only carry up to two passengers.

Frankel told the policeman that he had actually turned 21 nearly two weeks earlier, and pointed to the Hebrew date as proof. The policeman told him that the Hebrew date was not germane, and gave him a court summons. But that was not all: In court, the police asked to revoke his license for three months!

[goldstategop]

An Israeli driver won an acquittal in court because he argued that by the Hebrew Calendar, he was already 21. The police argued it was not germane and remanded him to court and recommended his drivers' license be suspended for three months for good measure. The court rejected the police position and served notice the Hebrew date from now on has to be accepted as authentic proof of legal age. You're really older, often a few weeks in advance in Israel because the Jewish day begins not at midnight but at nightfall when the sun goes down.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Izzy Dunne]

You're really older, often a few weeks in advance in Israel because the Jewish day begins not at midnight but at nightfall when the sun goes down.

You're gonna have to 'splain that one to me.

A day is a day is 24 hours, whether you start at midnight or start at noon or start at nightfall.

How do you accumulate "a few weeks" of difference?

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

The Hebrew calendar, I believe, is lunar not solar. This is why their Holy Days float according to the Gregorian calendar, some earlier than the year before, some later.

[aruanan]

How do you accumulate "a few weeks" of difference?

I guess the writer was thinking that if you were born at 6AM on the 24th, your birthday would have been figured as being at sundown (after the appearance of the second star) the previous day. Say it was at 6PM. This makes a difference of 12 hours. To this point it's okay, as far as it goes. I think the writer must then have multiplied this 12 hours by the number of years since someone's birth. Say the guy was 50 years old. 50 times 12 hours is 25 days, which is a little over three weeks, that is, "a few weeks." If this is how the guy was thinking, then, poor dope.

[goldstategop]

The Hebrew calendar dates fall on different dates than the Gregorian calendar because in certain years, a "leap month" is added to make sure religious festivals track with the changing of the seasons. That's why the Hebrew Calendar is often a few days ahead of the Gregorian one. For instance, March 5, 2009 is Adar 9, 5709 in the Hebrew Calendar. So you can be really be older since your Hebrew birthdate may come earlier than your Gregorian one does.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

The Hebrew Calendar is lunisolar. It corrects for the drift in cosmic time with adjustments to keep festivals like Passover in the spring and the New Year in the fall. In contrast, the Islamic Calendar is a pure lunar calendar which is why Islamic festivals can happen in different seasons in any given year. The Hebrew Calendar does not allow Jewish festivals to drift out of their appointed place.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Yeah, it’s been a while since I really looked at it. I just knew that due to the lunar aspects of it, it isn’t pegged to the Gregorian calendar and that’s why the “I’m older in the Hebrew Calendar” argument can exist.

[Incorrigible]

And I’ll bet when this guy was a kid, he complained to his mother when he had to go to religious studies.

[MarkL]

The Hebrew calendar, I believe, is lunar not solar. This is why their Holy Days float according to the Gregorian calendar, some earlier than the year before, some later.

That's correct... And to really screw things up, the "leap year" doesn't add a day... It adds an entire month. I went to a Jewish day school for my first 7 years, and I never did quite figure it out... But my "Jewish birthday" (which is what's used to calculate your Bar Mitzvah date) was always off by a couple of weeks from my "real" birthday.

Mark

[hlmencken3]

To restate:

Holidays must fall in their solar season - Passover in spring, for example.

But months are reckoned exactly from new moon to new moon.

There’s no commandment that a ‘year’ contain 12 months, so a 13th month is added so the date fixed for Passover always comes out in the spring season, but will actually vary up to a full lunar-reckoned month from the Western division of 12 months of varying days with ‘leap years’.

And so the Hebrew year remains an average of one trip around the sun.

[Izzy Dunne]

So you can be really be older since your Hebrew birthdate may come earlier than your Gregorian one does.

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

If you want to use the Hebrew calendar or the Gregorian calendar or the Mayan calendar, you use the same one for both your birthday and for today, and you get the same answer.

If you use one calendar for your birthday and another for today, then it's just stupid.

[goldstategop]

That's why there are two Adar months in some years for exactly that reason. If you're born in a leap Adar, count yourself blessed. :)

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[SJackson]

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[goldstategop]

What's wrong with TWO birthdays? Jews have to use the Hebrew calendar, not just to determine when the festivals and Shabbat falls but to determine yahrzeit anniversaries. My father died on September 5, 2005 in the Gregorian calendar but his Hebrew date of death is Av 30, 5705.

[Izzy Dunne]

My father died on September 5, 2005 in the Gregorian calendar but his Hebrew date of death is Av 30, 5705.

It doesn't matter which calendar you use, he wasn't any older in one than he was in the other.

What's wrong with TWO birthdays?

That's off the topic and beside the point.

[Uri’el-2012]

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

If you want to use the Hebrew calendar or the Gregorian calendar or the Mayan calendar, you use the same one for both your birthday and for today, and you get the same answer.

If you use one calendar for your birthday and another for today, then it's just stupid.

One calendar was created by G-d
the other was created by man.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Izzy Dunne]

One calendar was created by G-d the other was created by man.

Well, yes, I understand that just fine, thanks.

It STILL doesn't make any sense to use one for your birthday and the other for today's date.

[rmlew]

To be honest, I don’t know anyone who has used their Jewish birthdate for anything, but I’m American. Besides, mine, 10 Av, sucks.

[Tolik]

“If you use one calendar for your birthday and another for today, then it’s just stupid.”

Technically, you are right. But its a tradition. In Israel they are more comfortable in mix-and-matching calendars. There are many traditions that are as bad. If I’d have a large flame-protection suit, I’d say that American infatuation with pounds, yards, ounces and inches makes simple calculations more difficult. Metric system is easier. But its a matter of patriotism for many to say otherwise. So, strange things happen around the world...

[Izzy Dunne]

American infatuation with pounds, yards, ounces and inches makes simple calculations more difficult. Metric system is easier.

Well, you can argue that all you like, but it's a different question.

The original post claims that You're really older, often a few weeks in advance in Israel because the Jewish day begins not at midnight but at nightfall when the sun goes down.

That's like saying that 5 feet is taller than 2 meters.

If you're going to compare two things, they have to be in the same system.

And age is nothing but a comparison of two dates.

[Tolik]

“Well, you can argue that all you like, but it’s a different question.”

Not at all. I don’t argue your point, I conceded it already. All I say is that its tradition against simplicity and convenience.

[HeavensGate27]

One calendar was created by G-d the other was created by man.

God is infinite and boundless by time and space. He has allowed men to give dates/time for his own sake. Both Hebrew and Gregorian calanders are of man. Only those who climb the tower of Babal would ever dare confine God.

[Uri’el-2012]

XS>One calendar was created by G-d the other was created by man.

God is infinite and boundless by time and space. He has allowed men to give dates/time for his own sake. Both Hebrew and Gregorian calanders(sic) are of man. Only those who climb the tower of Babal(sic) would ever dare confine God.

You seem to be totally ignorant of the creator of our universe.

YHvH is not in our time and space !

YHvH created our time-space continuum.

YHvH gave us His Word.

In His Word He has provided His calendar for our keeping.

Pagan man has devised calendars like the Gregorian or Mayan.

You need to seek His Face and His Word.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Uri’el-2012]

HeavensGate27
Since Mar 6, 2009