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Beware the new axis of evangelicals and Islamists
The Spectator ^ | March 4, 2009 | Melanie Phillips

Posted on 03/05/2009 3:33:44 PM PST by Parmenio

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Even some Christians in the UK are drinking the koolaid. There are some comments worth reading at the link to the article.

Are any US evangelicals coming out against Israel? Outside of the mainline legacy denominations I mean. I haven't heard of any.

1 posted on 03/05/2009 3:33:45 PM PST by Parmenio
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To: Parmenio

Please don’t refer to pro-Islam religionists as Evangelical Christians.

Biblical Christians support Israel.


2 posted on 03/05/2009 3:36:48 PM PST by TFMcGuire (Life is tough. It is even tougher if you are stupid--John Wayne)
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To: Parmenio

I am watching very carefully for some kind of christo/mohammadan merger. All that is standing in the way is Christian insistence on the divinity of Christ.

I was in the car last night and National People’s Radio devoted a whole hour to debunking the Jesus “myth”.


3 posted on 03/05/2009 3:36:54 PM PST by DManA
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To: Parmenio

anti-Israel Christians

sounds like leftist so-called christians like the ucc and the episcopalians


4 posted on 03/05/2009 3:37:07 PM PST by Chickensoup ("Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.")
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To: Parmenio

Many anti-freedom, anti-truth, anti-individual, anti-life collectives and individuals will join forces.

WORDS & DEEDS BUMP!


5 posted on 03/05/2009 3:37:18 PM PST by PGalt
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To: Parmenio
No real Christians that I know of in the US are anti-Israel.

6 posted on 03/05/2009 3:37:55 PM PST by TurtleUp (Turtle up: cancel optional spending until 2012, and boycott TARP/stimulus companies forever!)
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To: TFMcGuire

I didn’t refer to them that way. The author of the article did.


7 posted on 03/05/2009 3:38:26 PM PST by Parmenio
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To: Parmenio

How can you be a Christian and not support Israel?


8 posted on 03/05/2009 3:38:37 PM PST by svcw
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To: Parmenio
No REAL Christian is anti-Israel. Just like no REAL Christian would be anti-(insert Islamic Country here).

Why? Because Christianity is not anti countries or ethnic groups.
Christians, that have a brain, WILL respectfully tell people that hold beliefs opposite to their own why they think they are wrong.

9 posted on 03/05/2009 3:39:15 PM PST by AreaMan
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To: svcw
Israel - the dependents of Jacob?
or
Israel - the Middle Eastern state with a secular government?

How can you be a Christian and not support Israel?

10 posted on 03/05/2009 3:46:50 PM PST by DManA
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To: Parmenio
Are any US evangelicals coming out against Israel?

Outside of the drug-induced hallucinations of radical leftists, no.

11 posted on 03/05/2009 3:47:16 PM PST by MeganC (Palin-Limbaugh 2012)
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To: Parmenio

No worries!

I can see yer white hat.

I’m after the statements of the author of the article. Any damage to you was only collateral and not intended:).


12 posted on 03/05/2009 3:49:48 PM PST by TFMcGuire (Life is tough. It is even tougher if you are stupid--John Wayne)
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To: Parmenio

“Are any US evangelicals coming out against Israel?”

If they were, I would not consider them to be evangelicals. Or Christians.

“15 Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21”Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”—Matthew 7


13 posted on 03/05/2009 3:49:54 PM PST by Tex Pete (Obama for Change: from our pockets, our piggy banks, and our couch cushions!)
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To: Parmenio
Are any US evangelicals coming out against Israel? Outside of the mainline legacy denominations I mean. I haven't heard of any.

This shows again why the term "Evangelical" is so broad as to be essentially meaningless. When whackjob liberal Presbyterians and Anglicans can be called "Evangelicals", the term has run its course and needs to be put to bed.

IIRC, there is some "latent" anti-Israelism/anti-Zionism in some quarters even of conservative American Christianity, mostly groups holding to amillenial eschatology and related heresies who believe (in some form or fashion) that "the Church" IS Israel, which would obviously make Israel NOT Israel....if that made sense.

14 posted on 03/05/2009 3:52:40 PM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (True nobility is exempt from fear - Marcus Tullius Cicero)
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To: Parmenio
Are any US evangelicals coming out against Israel?

Simply, no. At least not any more so than you could find people who practice satanism or other scatterred loonie nut-jobs of no social or numerical significance. The author of the piece referring to some so-called "profound split" is ridiculous. I suspect there may be some agenda here in trying to drive a deeper wedge between Jews and evangelical Christians.

15 posted on 03/05/2009 3:53:39 PM PST by San Jacinto (gorebull warming -- the Socialists' Shortcut.)
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To: DManA

Did you mean “descendants”?


16 posted on 03/05/2009 3:56:19 PM PST by Binghamton_native
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To: Parmenio

Christians who hate Jews are the same type that love abortion and homosexuality—Either seriously misguided or false, like Obama’s spiritual leader Rev. Wright. I certainly wouldn’t call Jew-hating so-called Christians “evangelical.”


17 posted on 03/05/2009 3:56:45 PM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: TFMcGuire
Biblical Christians support Israel.

Shalom, and Amen.

18 posted on 03/05/2009 4:05:24 PM PST by Kieri (The Conservatrarian)
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To: TFMcGuire

***Please don’t refer to pro-Islam religionists as Evangelical Christians.

Biblical Christians support Israel***

PING and re PING

Only massively idiotic, Biblically illiterate libs think that you can be anti-Israel AND Evangelical.

(The same brain-frieded who are always quoting the book of Revelation”S”).


19 posted on 03/05/2009 4:10:07 PM PST by Mrs.Z
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To: Kieri
Shalom, and Amen.

Psalm 137
1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
4 How shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land?
5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
7 Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.
8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

20 posted on 03/05/2009 4:13:38 PM PST by Theophilus (The people who were going to buy your home got aborted 30 years ago.)
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To: Parmenio
...anti-Israel Christians...

These fools must be holding their Bibles upside-down.

21 posted on 03/05/2009 4:26:47 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: ViLaLuz

“Christians who hate Jews are the same type that love abortion and homosexuality”

Bing bing bing - give the man cupie doll! Spot on!

Mel


22 posted on 03/05/2009 4:42:33 PM PST by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: Parmenio

This doesn’t surprise me. NAZI Germany had three SS divisions made up of and commanded by muslims. They worked in the Balkins on the final solution and most Arab leaders after the war had direct ties to these SS troops.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com


23 posted on 03/05/2009 4:54:27 PM PST by stockpirate (A people unwilling to use violent force to defend liberty deserves the tyrant that rules them SP)
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To: Parmenio
anti-Israel Christians

There must be 8 or so of these people in the world.

24 posted on 03/05/2009 5:32:33 PM PST by Onelifetogive (Let's get to altering or abolishing!)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you'd like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

----------------------------

Jimmy Carter hanging with Islamists isn't new.

25 posted on 03/05/2009 6:10:54 PM PST by SJackson (a tax cut is non-targeted…no guarantee…they’re free to invest anywhere that they want, J Kerry)
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To: Parmenio
Sizer is a virulent opponent of Christian Zionism and of Israel, which he has said he hopes will disappear just as did the apartheid regime in South Africa. He has also applauded Iranian President Ahmadinejad for having ‘looked forward to the day when Zionism ceased to exist’. Nevertheless, the appearance of an Anglican churchman on a pro-Islamist platform in Britain is a new and significant development.

The Spectator uses the term "Evangelical" in a way that that is NOT the equivalent of "Evangelical" in America. The Anglican Church, or Church of England, would be considered a "Mainline" or "establishment" church in the US.

This article seems intent on casting aspersions on Evangelicals, who, with the exception of some like Jim Wallis, are supporters of Israel

26 posted on 03/05/2009 6:29:29 PM PST by happygrl (BORG: Barack 0bama Resistance Group: we will not be assimilated)
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To: happygrl

FYI, there is an evangelical movement in the Church of England.


27 posted on 03/05/2009 6:37:46 PM PST by Parmenio
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To: TFMcGuire

Precisely


28 posted on 03/05/2009 7:34:05 PM PST by RatRipper (Opposing the leftists for my family, my friends, and for me.)
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To: melsec

LOL... thanks.

(See my personal page)


29 posted on 03/05/2009 7:39:29 PM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: melsec

Oh, by the way. I had the honor to serve with Diggers in Afghanistan. Great soldiers, great people!

God bless, brother.


30 posted on 03/05/2009 7:40:59 PM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: Kieri
"Evangelical" Christians merely refers to the desire to spread the belief in Jesus as the Messiah to all people. It is the "great commission" we are all expected to do. It has nothing to do with a worldview or political ideology, but truthfully, if one has learned anything in Christian Sunday School, it is that the Israelites (Jews) were up against one powerful foe after another, and that God was in their favor. And they prevailed, by the grace of God.

Every child knows that the Jews will once again gather in their promised land (Israel) and that God himself will protect them against the aggressors. This is neither radical nor evangelical. It is what is written in the Bible, the Torah, the Word of God.

If Christians are railing against Israel and against the perseverance of the Jewish state, they have not read their instruction book. They are denying the Word of God. So what instruction book are they reading?

31 posted on 03/05/2009 7:47:28 PM PST by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: Parmenio

If anyone is a true Christian, and they don’t support Israel, they are in for a very rude awakening. And I don’t think God’s averse to knocking them upside the head to accomplish that awakening.

There are many strong messages in the Bible, but one of the main lessons is PROTECT MY ISRAEL. And God will protect you.

Christians have no excuse for not being Zionists. None.


32 posted on 03/05/2009 7:53:26 PM PST by heat pipes
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To: Binghamton_native

Yes of course. Sorry.


33 posted on 03/05/2009 7:57:11 PM PST by DManA
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To: SJackson; All; Spunky; ~Kim4VRWC's~; 1035rep; 2ndDivisionVet; 4woodenboats; 5Madman2; ...

Blunders of Sitting President

http://noiri.blogspot.com/2009/03/blunders-or-systematical-destruction-of.html

Roundup of What is influencing our lives and future

http://noiri.blogspot.com/2009/03/odds-and-ends-that-influence-our-lives.html


34 posted on 03/05/2009 11:21:50 PM PST by FARS
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To: FARS

thnx for the ping
marked to read tomorrow, so i can sleep tonight. this could get me agitated me thinks


35 posted on 03/05/2009 11:29:05 PM PST by Freedom2specul8 (Please pray for our troops.... http://www.americasupportsyou.mil/)
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To: Parmenio
Melanie Phillips says there is a dangerous new alliance between anti-Israel Christians and radical Muslim groups, often plotting in secret against their common enemy

Whut?????

Sounds to me like that these people are more like neo-Nazi white supremacists rather than Christians.

And I don't see how anyone calling himself or herself a Christian can be "anti-Israel" considering Christianity's close historical and theological ties to Judaism.

This just does not pass the smell test.

36 posted on 03/06/2009 3:53:07 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin is a smart missile aimed at the heart of the left!)
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To: Parmenio
Are any US evangelicals coming out against Israel?

No.

37 posted on 03/06/2009 4:13:59 AM PST by snowsislander (NRA -- join today! 1-877-NRA-2000)
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To: Parmenio
The libs have been salivating over and looking to find "Christian" terrorists for years...hoping to find anything they can point to.

So they find one whacko in England and call that a Evangelical-Islamic alliance.

IMHO, this is a typical liberal MO...making up an alliancce out of an obscure event so they can paint the whole with the same brush.

THE AUDACITY OF TRUTH ABOUT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA

38 posted on 03/06/2009 4:58:10 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Parmenio

In the UK, the popular definition of “evangelical” is broader than in the USA. Evangelical can be used about anyone who accepts the literal resurrection of Christ, and the other general creedal truths of the bible.

C. S. Lewis for example was in England considered very evangelical—though he did not accept the inerrancy of scripture. (Lewis had a very high view of scripture, but still not what the American understanding of evangelical requires).

Personally I think one must be careful about this article, as the author seems to have an axe to grind. One need not be a blind fanatical supporter of Israel for-Christian-prophecy reasons (the perception of many of what so-called “Christian Zionists” are about) to support Israel, the only real democracy—and civilized country—in the Middle East.

I heard Bishop Nazir-Ali—a key anti-Islamist mentioned in the article—speak at a conference recently, and his main point was that the reason immigrants in the UK (and Europe in general) are so isolated culturally from the Europeans, is in a large measure due to the un-Christian (or really post-Christian) lack of acceptance and bigotry they’ve faced over the last 40 years—coincidentally exactly when Britain turned its back on the Christian faith.

Islamic immigration in Europe is in marked contrast to Hispanic immigrants in America—where typically in one generation, or maybe 2, they fully know the language, and (although there are way too many illegals!) actually do integrate into our society. In Europe, with Muslim immigrants, this is not the case.

If evangelicals in the UK can win Muslims to faith in Christ (instead of fighting to force them out of the country) why is that a bad thing?


39 posted on 03/06/2009 5:33:42 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: TFMcGuire

Religions driving politics will result in continued death and destruction.


40 posted on 03/06/2009 5:35:46 AM PST by PurpleMan
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To: heat pipes
Christians have no excuse for not being Zionists.

I beg to differ. Some 80% of the population of modern-day Israel are agnostics or atheists. Their religiosity (and liberal politics, btw) is not much different than Europe, or the most secular parts of the USA.

I'm a big supporter of Israel--as it is the only independently democratic--and fully civilized--country in the Middle East. But should I support them merely (or mainly?) because most of them have a Jewish heritage? Should I support them, be they right or wrong, out of fear of being cursed by God, or somehow to quicken the 2nd Coming of Jesus? I think that kind of support verges on religious superstition, not a wise evaluation of the actual nation on the ground.

The nation-state of Israel today, should not be confused with the ancient theocracy of the Kingdom of David from 1000 BC.

Support Israel today? Yes, but hold them to the same standards as any other country on earth, not as some mystical favored (or spoiled?) child of God--particularly when the landslide of the population is irreligious.

Yes, I am an evangelical Christian--and scripture teaches--a spritual descendant and heir of Abraham. Please, however, do not call me a "Christian Zionist," only a Christian; as no follower of Christ should have divided loyalties.

41 posted on 03/06/2009 5:53:43 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns

Thank you for this information. It clears up some questions I had.


42 posted on 03/06/2009 6:09:19 AM PST by Parmenio
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To: FARS

Thanks for the ping!


43 posted on 03/06/2009 6:45:55 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: ViLaLuz

You are one strange looking bloke LOL -

God bless you too Sister!

Mel


44 posted on 03/06/2009 6:55:35 AM PST by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: AnalogReigns
but hold them to the same standards as any other country on earth

You don't believe we do that? Please give an example of what you're talking about please.

45 posted on 03/06/2009 7:19:42 AM PST by Hildy
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To: Parmenio; FARS; All

About 6 years ago, I had the bad luck of being in a situation of having to listen to an America guy, supposedly an evangelical go after Bush, Republicans and wanting the destruction of Israel for a few minutes.

He and his wife were from N Wisconsin/ S Minnesota and now live in Medford/Ashland, Or. area. They were members of some so called born again evangelical group back in the mid west and SW Oregon. I never found out which group as I got the hell away from him.

He had been a spec op in the Nam era, serving in Laos. He now hates the American Military about as much as he hates Israel’s existance.

The guy and his wife changed personalities in seconds and went into their above hatreds.


46 posted on 03/06/2009 7:44:52 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Zer0's friends are criminals, foreign/domestic terrorists, perverts, sexual deviates or tax cheats!)
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To: AnalogReigns

Reading your post reminds me that most US Jews feel the same way you do, thus their voting behavior.

Very self destructive.


47 posted on 03/06/2009 8:43:37 AM PST by eleni121 (EN TOUTO NIKA!! + In this sign Conquer! +)
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To: FARS

Nice roundup, and it only took the surrender monkey 6 weeks.


48 posted on 03/06/2009 9:15:32 AM PST by 1035rep ("The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.")
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To: stockpirate

An excellent website which I have frequently referred friends and acquaintances over the past five years!

If people only knew and understood...

A.A.C.


49 posted on 03/06/2009 11:03:21 AM PST by AmericanArchConservative (Armour on, Lances high, Swords out, Bows drawn, Shields front ... Eagles UP!)
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To: LucyT; SunkenCiv; rabscuttle385

Look at this link, I think you will find it interesting.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com

SP


50 posted on 03/06/2009 11:12:20 AM PST by stockpirate (A people unwilling to use violent force to defend liberty deserves the tyrant that rules them SP)
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