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Beware the new axis of evangelicals and Islamists
The Spectator ^ | March 4, 2009 | Melanie Phillips

Posted on 03/05/2009 3:33:44 PM PST by Parmenio

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To: stockpirate

Thanks.

http://www.sizers.org/
http://www.cc-vw.org/vicar.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Sizer


51 posted on 03/06/2009 11:35:38 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: AnalogReigns

“Please, however, do not call me a “Christian Zionist,” only a Christian; as no follower of Christ should have divided loyalties.”

I never called you anything.

I stand by my statement. If a person supports a Jewish nation (in this case it has to be Israel b/c that’s what was prophesied in the Bible), then you are a Zionist. I’m sorry if you don’t like the meaning of the word.

I’m not sure what you mean by *divided loyalties*, as I’m a bit foggy atm, but when God says whoever blesses you will be blessed and whoever curses you will be cursed, He means what He says.


52 posted on 03/06/2009 1:38:55 PM PST by heat pipes
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To: AnalogReigns

nice post...my feelings about Israel as well


53 posted on 03/06/2009 10:00:46 PM PST by wardaddy (I've known black people over 50 years, raised with them and by them.. Obama ain't BLACK, HE"S RED!)
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To: Parmenio

You’re not familiar with Melanie Phillips are you?

She’s quite right about Islam but she has a decidely anti Christian bent too.

A very angry Jewish woman who sees some enemies where none exist.

Her works are a source of heatred threads here frequently.

Evangelicals and Islamists uniting is her way of bashing two of her enemies at once.

Like more than a few Jews, she eschews doctrinaire Christians.


54 posted on 03/06/2009 10:07:35 PM PST by wardaddy (I've known black people over 50 years, raised with them and by them.. Obama ain't BLACK, HE"S RED!)
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To: heat pipes
God says whoever blesses you will be blessed and whoever curses you will be cursed, He means what He says.

My problem is this. Israel should be given NO favoritism, over any other country. In as much as they are a democratic republic, we should support them--in appropriate ways. If they were to become a murderous dictatorship, (which they certainly are NOT now) then we should also treat them in approriate ways--JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY, regardless of some biblical blessing/curse, which SUPPOSEDLY applies to irreligious ethnic Jews today.

As a nation America pumps BILLIONS into Israel--a 1st World country, that does very well economically--in spite of all of her neighbors unfair boycott of her. Israel must learn to live on her own.

Then we also have African countries, with MILLIONS of very devout, evangelical Christians--living in brutal dictatorships in utter poverty--which compared to Israel, in private charities, we help out very little. Assuming you are an evangelical Christian, who now are "God's chosen people?" 7 million well fed and educated irreligious Israelis? Or 50 million severely persecuted and malnourished evangelical Christian Nigerians?

There's actually a charity, founded and funded by American evangelical Christians, to "bring Jews back to the holy land!" Christians spending big bucks to bring atheist/agnostic ethnic Jews from Russia and eastern Europe, to evangelize and bring them to faith in Jesus, their (and the) Messiah? NO. Just to transport them to, and establish them in Israel, so they can be on their way to hell there...

Yes its a free country, so people can do with their money what they want--but following the Jewish Messiah Jesus, does not mean that I should be play favorites with the descendants of his ethnic group....a group of people whose primary identifier unfortunately is not what they believe, but Who they reject.

55 posted on 03/07/2009 9:37:17 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: wardaddy

FYI, I am quite familiar with Melanie Phillips, and regualrly read her blog in The Spectator. I have not seen anything in her writings that could be construed as anti-Christian.


56 posted on 03/08/2009 8:27:30 AM PDT by Parmenio
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To: Parmenio

Anyone who claims Evangelicals are teaming up with Islamists against Israel is either ignorant or willfully obtuse.

Evangelicals, fundamentalists and even run of the mill city Christians are ardent supporters of Israel

for many reasons...some kinsmen issues, some Biblical but most just good common sense reasoning

Ms Phillips has been pretty rough on Ratzinger just for starters

She is right about Islam and the decline of the west though...no doubt


57 posted on 03/08/2009 11:05:29 AM PDT by wardaddy (I've known black people over 50 years, raised with them and by them.. Obama ain't BLACK, HE"S RED!)
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To: wardaddy

She is talking about some Christians in England, not evangelicals in the US. If you have ever met many British people, you would now there is a difference.


58 posted on 03/08/2009 12:23:16 PM PDT by Parmenio
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To: Parmenio

lived in London 1986

hampstead lane and tottenham court road

worked in hatton garden...all Jews and Indians

precious few religious Christians in Merry Old these days


59 posted on 03/08/2009 6:51:48 PM PDT by wardaddy (I've known black people over 50 years, raised with them and by them.. Obama ain't BLACK, HE"S RED!)
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To: wardaddy; Mrs.Z; Parmenio

Well, I have counted Hank Hanegraaff as one American evangelical Christians on the side of Arabs, Gary DeMar as another. John Piper has also sounded something akin to Sizer at times. If you count Rick Warren as an evangelical then he is another guy. Mark Driscoll also downplays Israel and so is Bill Hybels (incidentally, Driscoll, Hybels, and Warren all have ties to Sizer’s church programmes. Piper and Hanegraaff are friends of Driscoll and DeMar is also doctrinal brother with Piper on the theological doctrinal issue of Israel)

DeMar has invited Stephen Sizer to speak on his pro-Arab agenda. One thing that strikes me is that in the last 3 years, even many otherwise pro-Arab secular European journalists and pundits start to say Israel is right to drive Hamas into the ground (I know one Chinese-Indonesian guy Martin Oei who is a secularist liberal Catholic, and he is a candidate of the upcoming election of the head of the Hong Kong Journalists Association), but Sizer begs otherwise. So you can see there is something more than journalism coverage that is at hand when these professing Christians say they are against Israel.


60 posted on 07/04/2009 7:46:36 PM PDT by NZerFromHK (The US Founding is what makes Britain and USA separated by much more than a common language.)
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To: wardaddy; Mrs.Z; Parmenio

Well, I have counted Hank Hanegraaff as one American evangelical Christians on the side of Arabs, Gary DeMar as another. John Piper has also sounded something akin to Sizer at times. If you count Rick Warren as an evangelical then he is another guy. Mark Driscoll also downplays Israel and so is Bill Hybels (incidentally, Driscoll, Hybels, and Warren all have ties to Sizer’s church programmes. Piper and Hanegraaff are friends of Driscoll and DeMar is also doctrinal brother with Piper on the theological doctrinal issue of Israel)

DeMar has invited Stephen Sizer to speak on his pro-Arab agenda. One thing that strikes me is that in the last 3 years, even many otherwise pro-Arab secular European journalists and pundits start to say Israel is right to drive Hamas into the ground (I know one Chinese-Indonesian guy Martin Oei who is a secularist liberal Catholic, and he is a candidate of the upcoming election of the head of the Hong Kong Journalists Association), but Sizer begs otherwise. So you can see there is something more than journalism coverage that is at hand when these professing Christians say they are against Israel.


61 posted on 07/04/2009 7:47:26 PM PDT by NZerFromHK (The US Founding is what makes Britain and USA separated by much more than a common language.)
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