Skip to comments.1 dead in Illinois Church Shooting
Posted on 03/08/2009 10:38:10 AM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
click here to read article
Fred Winters, Senior Pastor Of First Baptist Church in Maryville, has been killed.
picture of perp?
Illinois is still a no-issue state, right? (As opposed to may-issue or shall-issue.)
A prayer service will be held tonight at 6:00pm, March 8, 2009, at Metro Community Chuch in Edwardsville, IL.
The gunman is unknown yet...
Very sad. The earlier stories said that members of the congregation knifed him. This story makes more sense.
He leaves a wife and two lovely daughters.
There’s a photo of the Pastor and his family at
but the website now seems to be down. Maybe too many people trying to visit it.
God rest his soul.
Pulled out a knife and wounded himself, after the gun jammed?
Intended murder-suicide. Not described as a member of the church, and I’m very certain he would have been identified as such, had he been.
Either the shooter was completely delusional, or it was personal.
We’ve come to the point in this country where churches need security...
I couldn’t get on that website either...
The media and the schools have done all they can to make Christianity responsible for everything evil in our country.
A woman in the next county to me walked into her church and killed the secretary because she thought the minister and congregation paid too much attention to the woman. She was completely delusional and is serving a life sentence.
We’ve come to the point in this country where
you’ll have to carry every where you go...
“Master Trooper Ralph Timmins says the man walked down the aisle during the service, exchanged words with the pastor, then drew a .45-caliber handgun and fired.”
I read about that here on FR. Pitiful. The woman sounded as if she just quietly slipped into paranoid delusion, and it didn’t draw enough attention until it was too late, since she lived alone.
Is this a possible motive?
(Photo of Rev. Fred Winters to the right of the article.)
Some area clergy are becoming less shy about taking a stand on lightning rod issues—abortion and same sex marriage—carefully avoiding blatant endorsements of political candidates.
Without telling parishioners whom they should vote for, Pastor Rick Hufton of Faith Family Church in Swansea, did tell his flock Sunday to vote for pro life and anti-same-sex marriage candidates.
“There, I said,” Hufton said.
Forbidden from endorsing candidates lest a church lose its precious tax exempt status, a pastor’s message, veiled or not, carries weight.
“picture of perp?”
I’m guessing that nobody whipped out their cell phone to get one. Not gonna have one until police release an identity.
We’ll know soon enough.
Churches ask you to turn off your cell phone. Lately I've just been leaving mine in the car, but maybe that's not a good idea...
From the article”
“While cultural and moral issues will be the focus of a pre-election sermon, the Rev. Fred Winters, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Maryville, is worried about other topical election issues, such as tort reform.”
You think he was shot by a deranged lawyer?
None of the more recent church shootings have been by Muslims.
Doubt it. Have no real knowledge of the area, but found it interesting that he was an outspoken Christian Pastor.
The Left cannot stand them.
Look at what they did to Sarah Palin’s Church after the Election. That was no accident, nor was it a local that did it.
I doubt it was a lawyer.
This may amplify what we previously posted.
“I believe there are under-the-radar issues that are hard to address,” said Winters. “I’m very concerned about doctors leaving Madison County. We need to be informed.”
Winters said that even if he were allowed to endorse certain candidates, he wouldnt. “It’s not something I would do,” he said.
But he will delve into God’s view of marriage and abortion, believing that the church has an obligation to give direction to its people.
“Not merely this is how to vote, but getting people to think what the issues are, he said. “We definitely have an obligation to protect the church.”
Citing the book of Romans, Winters said Christians who don’t vote are “disobedient.”
But it was another pastor who was the REAL outspoken one. I really haven’t heard of an outbreak of liberals shooting up churches. One of the last ones in fact, was by some nut who claimed he was upset about the church’s “liberal teachings.”
“Lately I’ve just been leaving mine in the car, but maybe that’s not a good idea...”
No, it’s not. I never leave mine in the car at church.
And granted someone carrying a concealed weapon might not of been able to stop this guy from shooting the pastor but if the gun hadn’t jammed, there would possibly be more dead. Someone with a weapon of their own would save lives.
Listed below Fred Winters Picture:
(L to R) James Lewis, executive director of East St. Louis Board of Elections Commission; Doris Gray Jones, vice president of the Urban League; Terrie Holder, director of New Spirit and the Rev. Johnny Scott, NAACP chapter president and pastor of Antioch Baptist Church in Venice.
Sitting in a church with my back to the door scares the heebee jeebies out of me.
I hear you...
I went there earlier, and saw the photo of him, his wife, and his two daughters, in a country setting. Absolutely beautiful family.
The photo is linked on an earlier thread, but of course it can’t be seen while the site is closed.
I think they must have shut down the website because of too many visitors.
Funny they have no "privacy" issues with releasing the name of one of the victims, but the same hospital "could not provide" the name, condition or type of injuries for the perpetrator, the alleged perpetrator of course.
Generally arrests are public record. Why not release his name and picture from his driver's license, assuming he has one?
“Funny they have no “privacy” issues with releasing the name of one of the victims, “
It simply means the victim or his family has given permission. Notice that not all of the victim names have been published.
My home church has had a security team for the past three years. “gentle as doves...crafty as serpents”
From the story:
He said he and other church members were praying for the gunman. "He's still alive, so there's still a chance for him to turn his life around and find the Lord."
Or to die and find his true master. Guess, I'm not as charitable as the folks at First Baptist, Maryville.
That or the mag spring was shot.
I thought of that as well, but it doesn't explain why the police haven't released his name. I guess it's possible he had no ID, and since no one at the church recognized him, the police do not yet know who he is, but it seems unlikely he wouldn't be carrying any ID. Even thugs generally get driver's licenses.
The hospital that people, including both the pastor and his killer, were taken to first is very close to the church, just 600-700 yards, with both on the same road.
Or the trooper was mistaken. Other stories, such as the one on Fox, indicate that Pastor Winters was shot 3 times, and 4 others were also shot, and that 2 had knife wounds. They report 5 others, in addtion to the Pastor and the killer, transported to the hospital.
If all that's true, the killer may have just shot the gun dry. Typical .45 has 7 round magazine, and if the magazine was not topped off after loading, then that's 7 rounds available. Rather than jamming, the slide may have locked back on an empty magazine.
It should all get sorted out shortly. At minimum they should have already counted the shell casing(s) lying about.
If this attack has an Islamic terrorist connection, you will hear nothing about it after today. If the shooter is a garden-variety lunatic with no politically correct motivations, for the next week or so you will hear news stories about how .45 caliber handguns are “too powerful” for citizens to be allowed to own. There will also be stories about how the killer, who probably has a long history of violent crime and/or mental illness, is a “typical American” who happened to have access to a gun.
Wow, Maryville is just North of me. I have a feeling these events are only going to get worse.
Secular Humanist Fundamentalist!
Someone needs to be tried and publicly hung. And, not allowing concealed carry should also bring chargers against lawmakers who propose such restrictions in violation of the 2nd Amendement. When are we going to get decent government? When???
Do you know what their responsibilities are?
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