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Darwin's arguments against God
CMI ^ | Russell Grigg

Posted on 03/11/2009 8:26:34 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

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To: sickoflibs
John Woodmorappe, author of the definitive Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, estimated that only about 15% of the animals on the ark would have been larger than a sheep. This figure does not take into account the possibility that God may have brought Noah “infant” animals, which can be significantly smaller than adult animals.

How many animals were on the ark? Woodmorappe estimates about 16,000 “kinds.” What is a “kind”? The designation of “kind” is thought to be much broader than the designation “species.” Even as there are 400-something dog breeds but they all belong to one species (Canis familiaris), in the same way many species can belong to one kind. Some think that the designation “genus” may be somewhat close to the Biblical “kind.”

Nevertheless, even if we presume that “kind” is synonymous with “species,” “there are not very many species of mammals, birds, amphibians and reptiles. The leading systematic biologist, Ernst Mayr, gives the number as 17,600. Allowing for two of each species on the ark, plus seven of the few so-called “clean” kinds of animals, plus a reasonable increment for known extinct species, it is obvious that not more than say, 50,000 animals were on the ark.” (Morris, 1987)

Some have estimated that there were as many as 25,000 kinds of animals represented on the ark. This is a high-end estimation. With two of each kind and seven of some the number of animals would exceed 50,000, though not by very much relatively speaking. Regardless, whether there were 16,000 or 25,000 kinds of animals, even with two of each and seven of some, scholars agree that there was plenty of room for all of the animals on the ark, plus food and water with room to spare.

What about all of the excrement produced by all of these animals? How did 8 people manage to feed all of those animals and deal with tons of excrement on a daily basis? What about animals with specialized diet? How did plant-life survive? What about insects? There are a thousand other questions like these which could be raised and they are all good questions. In the minds of many, these questions are unanswerable. But they are certainly nothing new. They have been asked over and over for centuries. And in all of that time researchers have sought answers. There are now numerous, very scholarly feasibility studies which have put Noah and his ark to the test.

With over 1,200 scholarly references to academic studies, Woodmorappe’s book is “a modern systematic evaluation of the alleged difficulties surrounding Noah's Ark” (John Woodmorappe, “A Resource for Answering the Critics of Noah’s Ark,” Impact No. 273 March 1996. Institute for Creation Research, 30 January 2005 http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-273.htm). Woodmorappe claims that after years of systematically examining all of the questions which have been raised over the years, “all of the arguments against the Ark are… found wanting. In fact, the vast majority of the anti-Ark arguments, at first superficially plausible, turn out to be easily invalidated.” (www.gotquestions.org)

41 posted on 03/11/2009 10:24:03 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Humans are naturally biased. We tend to see what we want to see and explain away unwanted data.


42 posted on 03/11/2009 10:25:09 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: CottShop
RE “This is al ie- IF you bothered to actually check out your claim further, you would note that there was plenty of room on the ark with room to spare- the estimates have been done, and it would NOT have been impossible as you claim- EVEN IF more species are found- which isn’t likely concidering we have documented most known species kinds already- sorry, but your claim doesn’t wash

Are you kidding? Who did the estimates that all the Dinosours would fit? You are talking about millions of species over millions of years, all fitting on the Ark. (most of which were unknown till 1800s, the Biblical writers knew of a couple dozen animal types if lucky) Imagine Noah putting the Tyrannosaurus on his Ark with the other animals 10K years ago.. You cant be serious.... You NEVER hear Creationists debaters tell audiences this. They skip it completely because they dont want to be laughed at .

43 posted on 03/11/2009 10:26:17 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Keynesian Eco 101 : "If you won't spend your money WE WILL, and your kid's too!")
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To: sickoflibs
"But as more digging took place they found so many different types of life fossils, mostly layered by complexity, there was no way they could be on the Ark. In fact the writers of Genesis had never seen life outside of local Biblical area."

All neatly layered in the "fossil layer" in correct order and age they existed, right? No matter if, over the "millions of years" there were floods, earth quakes and other catastrophic events that mixed them around a few times...

44 posted on 03/11/2009 10:28:22 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

There’s plenty of evidence for evolution—it’s been discussed on this board over and over again. More importantly, the scientific literature is fairly unified on the topic. Of course, if evidence to the contrary is found and confirmed, then the scientific position will change. That’s the way science works.

Speaking of God’s infinite wisdom, I think that evolution was a stroke of genius, don’t you?


45 posted on 03/11/2009 10:31:55 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: CottShop

Your picture of Noah leading a Tyrannosaurus onto the Ark with all the other animals for a extended period of time is making my laugh for the day.

I bet these guys you cite avoid this topic when they win all those debates with the ‘evil’ evolutionists. It certainly wasnt in their scientific creation books they packaged for public schools in 1980s.


46 posted on 03/11/2009 10:33:08 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Keynesian Eco 101 : "If you won't spend your money WE WILL, and your kid's too!")
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To: sickoflibs
"Are you kidding? Who did the estimates that all the Dinosours would fit? You are talking about millions of species over millions of years, all fitting on the Ark."

Where is the proof of that? Please don't offer "theories" as fact. They aren't. Acheology isn't an exact science either. Fish bones aren't dinosaurs, but how many times have whare bones been offered up as dinosaur bones? Chicken bones from some China mans last diner?

Plus, Noah didn't have to take extinct species on board...

47 posted on 03/11/2009 10:36:33 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: tacticalogic

Indeed. Nothing about Darwin’s scientific theory was an argument against God.

Darwin’s primary “argument against God”, if he had one at all, was that his little girl died so young and tragically.

And even he was not convinced of that particular argument one way or the other, claiming agnosticism rather than atheism.


48 posted on 03/11/2009 10:38:12 AM PDT by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: Nathan Zachary
No matter if, over the "millions of years" there were floods, earth quakes and other catastrophic events that mixed them around a few times...

Do you study geology?

49 posted on 03/11/2009 10:38:24 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Nathan Zachary; CottShop
Thanks! You took my words ‘mostly layered’ and changed them to ‘neatly layered’ This is exactly what Creationist books are full of. You take the evolutionists words, change them, then ridiculed the newly created meaning. Gish was famous for this. He knew he readers would never check the original source because he told them 'reading evolutionist books leads to eternity in hell' as some on this thread repeated. This allowed him to tell his readers almost anything

You must write creationist book sfor a living.

50 posted on 03/11/2009 10:40:36 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Keynesian Eco 101 : "If you won't spend your money WE WILL, and your kid's too!")
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To: sickoflibs

Many of the “dinosaurs”(big lizards) that were thought to have existed at the time Noah did were really quite small, no bigger than a horse. larger ones would be taken as babies, even their tiny eggs, not full grown adults.


51 posted on 03/11/2009 10:41:00 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: sickoflibs

who said hte dinos were even around hten? Certainly not I- I thought you old age earthers said dinos supposedly died out 100’s of millions ofyears ago? Could they not have died before hte flood IF the earth were young too? Your attempts at dismissing the ark are making me laugh

[[Imagine Noah putting the Tyrannosaurus on his Ark with the other animals 10K years ago.. You cant be serious.... You NEVER hear Creationists debaters tell audiences this.]]

Lol- Again, you contradict yourself- you beleive the dinos died out 100’s of millions of years ago- and hten insist that they must have been alive when Noah built the ark- it’s laughable the contradictions you folk display

[[They skip it completely because they dont want to be laughed at .]]

We’re too busy laughign at you folk to mention the contradicitons with your claims I’m afraid


52 posted on 03/11/2009 10:41:02 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Nathan Zachary
And as far as plate tectonics go, you better brush up on your schooling. It’s a very flawed THEORY, like al theories put together to support another flawed theory are.

Got it. It's a human-lookin' 'God' in a white robe, touchin' an Adam's Finger, right? And anything evenly slightly divergant from this exact viewpoint is a SIN, right?

Do I got it right now?

53 posted on 03/11/2009 10:45:21 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union, then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
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To: sickoflibs
Oh Please. If you have to stoop to personal attacks, leave.

There is plenty of garbage written about "fossil layers" that is easily disputed by anyone simply applying common sense, and with a little knowledge about geological changes the earth goes through during flash floods, hurricanes, entire mountain sides sliding off, which we've even seen during our lifetimes. Imagine what happens to "fossil layers" when entire continents rip apart and slide a few thousand miles ina matter of hours.

54 posted on 03/11/2009 10:45:42 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Lazamataz

[[Do I got it right now? ]]

No you don’t- but keep searching- someday hte light will dawn.


55 posted on 03/11/2009 10:51:52 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: sickoflibs

Do you even realize what the earths crust represents in relation to the size of the earth?

Imagine an onion, and now peel off one thin layer (1 millimetre (0.04 inch) thick) THAT is the crust of the earth,(which is anywhere from 5-70 Km thick,(5-15 under oceans,15-20 KM on continents) sitting on an inner layer called “The Moho” (which is exposed at the mid atlantic rift) and we don’t even know much about that beyond 3 miles or less. And that is considered a deep drill hole.


56 posted on 03/11/2009 10:54:10 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

[[Imagine what happens to “fossil layers” when entire continents rip apart and slide a few thousand miles ina matter of hours.]]

Dontachaknow? Creationists aren’t allowed to imagine- if htey do, they are accused of psuedoscience- while Evos get a free pass to imagine non existant creatures of all kinds, and htey call that science. Continents ripping apart couldn’t possibly upset fossil layers- absurd- it’s unreasonable to imagine anythign liek that- great upheavals couldn’t possibly upset layers (But evos, when explainign away the many many inconsistancies in fossil finds in layers are quick to ‘imagine’ scenarios like comets slamming hte earth, or whatever to ‘explain’ the evidence away that contradicts their hypothesis)


57 posted on 03/11/2009 10:56:04 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Lazamataz

That sounds about right for the level of intellect your brain has “evolved” toward.


58 posted on 03/11/2009 10:57:08 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Lazamataz

Of course you might be Muslim, and believe the earth is a disk on a cows back, which is standing on a cup, or a fish, or something along those lines.


59 posted on 03/11/2009 10:59:06 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: uglybiker

LOL!

Good one!


60 posted on 03/11/2009 10:59:58 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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