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Eligibility--More than Just a Computer Image, Stupid!
His Master's Voice | 3/12/09 | HMV

Posted on 03/12/2009 7:47:44 AM PDT by Hillary'sMoralVoid

There are at least five ways that Barack Obama can be declared ineligible for the presidency. Here is a list:

1. Obama was not born in the United States. The Certification of Live Birth that he posts on his web site proves nothing. Only the original paper certificate can address this issue, Obama refuses to release it.

2. Dual Citizenship issue: Obama could have British and American citizenship due to his father being a British subject at the time of his birth.

3. Dual Citizenship issue: Obama could have dual citizenship with Indonesia if he was adopted. His school records from Inonesia indicate he was Indonesian. He also traveled to Pakistan, but under what passport?

4. Mother's age at birth. Hawaiian laws on the books at the time of his birth hold that U.S. citizenship may only pass to a child born overseas to a U.S. citizen parent and non-citizen parent if the former was at least 19. Stanley Ann Dunham was only 18 at the time of Obama's birth.

5. Failure to formally renounce dual citizenship described above and reestablish American citizenship at some point and show proof of same.

Obama supporters have unrealistically simplified this issue down to the COLB. There are possibly more issues out there still to be investigated, perhaps willful misconduct on the potential forging of the COLB, etc.

I think that those who are bringing this issue to the attention of the courts need to step back and address the big picture first and then fill in the details.

Are there other potentially disqualifying factors missing from this list?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: alienborn; barackobama; berg; bho2008; bho2009; bho44; birthcertificate; birthers; blackmailbarack; boguspotus; bookemdano; british; certifigate; citizen; citizenship; colb; constitution; coverup; democrats; democratscandals; deportobama; donofrio; eligibility; fraud; hawaii; illegalalien; ineligible; kenya; kenyanusapotus; lockhimup; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; obama; obamalies; obamanoncitizenissue; obamatruthfile; orly; orlytaitz; sorospuppet; taitz; truthers; usurper; usurperinchief
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To: curiosity

“There is no evidence to suggest it’s fake, some anonymous blogger with a phony Ph.D.’s absurd claims notwithstanding.”

Hussein’s lawyers don’t seem to have much faith in that bogus COLB either. They have not referenced it in any of their legal filings.


51 posted on 03/12/2009 5:56:25 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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bookmark


52 posted on 03/12/2009 6:07:56 PM PDT by upcountry miss
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To: null and void

Thanks for the ping, null and void.

Forged Image vs Reality bump.


53 posted on 03/12/2009 6:24:00 PM PDT by azishot (I just joined the NRA.)
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To: curiosity
The facts from the state department are as follows:

"A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth."

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html

Thanks for the link, you have proven yourself incorrect.

The Hawaii COLB has all of these things.

A COLB is a CertificaTION and NOT a Birth Certificate.

54 posted on 03/12/2009 6:41:02 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: Polarik

LOL!


55 posted on 03/12/2009 6:45:50 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: curiosity; Polarik; LucyT
What is your theory as to why Obama has acted to prevent disclosure of his defacto birth information? estimates vary, but he has so far ivested well over 1 million dollars in combined legal fees and travel expences to keep it hidden.

Never in the history of our nation has any president acted to prevent such information from becoming available to the electorate in tis way, expendng such resources.

I am very interested to hear what your thoughts might be on tha matter.

There is no birther movement. However there are patriots who seek clarity on the issue as a constitutional matter, and those involved in the actual defacto discovery processs come from all walks of life, many having served our nation for heir entire careers.

It is not inapproprioate to ask the questions being asked because they are questions made pursuant to Article II, section 1 of our constitution., and theorizing in the absence of such facts is quite ordinary, and would be expected by anyone seekinng the office of the presidency. It is only the presidents popularity which has allowed him to be successful inn not beinng required to answer such questions.

So what is you theory as to why the president has not disclosed the defacto information on his birth, and has isolated the documentation which would reveal it?

56 posted on 03/12/2009 6:47:28 PM PDT by Candor7 (The weapons of choice againsnt fascism are ridicule, and derision. (member NRA)
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To: punchamullah

You also have to realize that these laws in regards to citizenship of people born in Hawaii was due to the fact that they had just recently attained statehood. Hence why the state may have had different requirements at that time than the Federal laws pertaining to people born in the other states. The fact is, the law was on the books and active at the time Obama was supposedly born, and do apply in his case.


57 posted on 03/12/2009 6:54:07 PM PDT by LibertyRocks ( http://LibertyRocks.wordpress.com ~ ANTI-OBAMA STUFF : http://cafepress.com/NO_ObamaBiden08)
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To: Velveeta
Thank you.

I zing. Not ping. It's ma thing.

58 posted on 03/12/2009 7:35:23 PM PDT by Polarik ("A forgery created to prove a claim repudiates that claim")
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To: Candor7
What is your theory as to why Obama has acted to prevent disclosure of his defacto birth information?

Your premise is wrong. He has done no such thing.

estimates vary, but he has so far ivested well over 1 million dollars in combined legal fees and travel expences to keep it hidden.

Estimates vary? LOL. No, it's more like numbers people pull out of their rears vary.

59 posted on 03/12/2009 7:49:00 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity; Michael Michael

Pinging MM

Where are you?


60 posted on 03/12/2009 7:51:32 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: curiosity

ESAD.


61 posted on 03/12/2009 8:42:22 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gama Tamasi Ma Jyotir Gama)
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To: curiosity; Polarik; LucyT
Your premise is wrong. He has done no such thing.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your facts are wrong. He certainly has, and has used due process to obtain that result.

The legal fees he has paid are extensive.

This is not about premises.

It is about our constutution and defending it.And it is about also respecting the patriotic orientation of those who do pose the necessary questions. What is your idea of defending the constitution. NOT asking these questions? Interesting.

If you do honor and respect that patriotic process , why are you here trying to "defuse" the momentum of the issue?

I mean do you actually post to any other threads on FR other than so called"birther" threads?

No you do not.

All very intersting.

62 posted on 03/12/2009 8:46:36 PM PDT by Candor7 (The weapons of choice againsnt fascism are ridicule, and derision. (member NRA)
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid

Failure to register in a timely fashion with the Selective Service (Draft), and subsequent possible forgery of registration forms—a Felony, iirc. While not a NBC issue, it may indicate dual/non US citizenship; intended to provide an out if the draft was re-started, and indicative of not placing the US first.


63 posted on 03/12/2009 8:54:59 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: curiosity
He did have dual citizenship at birth, which lapsed when he turned 18. He's admitted that. However, it is irrelevant.

Unless he attended college in the US as an Indonesian student, in which case it is relevant, as are his admissions records and transcripts. YMMV.

64 posted on 03/12/2009 8:59:13 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: MHGinTN; deport
An ad in the NYT for travel to Pakistan is not evidence. Sorry you feel it is

Not an ad, but an article on travel in Pakistan, including the information on how to get a visa. Also posts from people who said they did travel to Pakistan and the link Deport posted in an earlier thread to the State Department's travel advisory. I'd be happy to see evidence there was a travel ban - it would make a stronger case. But what I've seen is evidence there wasn't, and your brother's situation is just more evidence there was no ban. I do not doubt travel was difficult as your brother's experience shows.

65 posted on 03/12/2009 9:06:39 PM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: MHGinTN
Um, did Stanley Ann use an alias to travel to Cuba, perhaps ‘Durken’?

I hadn't thought of that. It's certainly possible - do we have any evidence?

66 posted on 03/12/2009 9:07:57 PM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: curiosity

Frankly I find it amazing that Obama’s defenders like your self steadfastly refuse to see the issue resolved in a court of law with all it’s consequences and would rather fight it out on the internet based upon rumors and web based articles you cannot prove.

All Obama has to do is prove he is a natural born citizen in court and he can sue for defamation anyone that has alleged he is not, for millions of dollars in damages.

And quite honestly isn’t that how community organizers force the will of their communities on companies and businesses that don’t respond to their needs by suing the pants off them?

Why then is Obama so hesitant to defend his very citizenship in a court of law especially if as you say it is so easy to prove?


67 posted on 03/13/2009 3:49:09 AM PDT by usmcobra (Your chances of dying in bed are reduced by getting out of it, but most people still die in bed)
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To: WellyP

Question: has that legendary Cuban trip ever been documented? There is a black “camarada” in Cuba who claims to be Zer0’s daddy. But has anyone dug up the proof that Annie actually went there? She would have been underage in the fall of 1960. She was, of course, a “red diaper” baby so maybe her folks were all in favor of Annie participating in “La Revolución.”


68 posted on 03/13/2009 4:05:19 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: Scanian

I hear the story all the time from Cubans in Miami.

But then again Kenyans say Obama was born in Kenya.....


69 posted on 03/13/2009 4:39:30 AM PDT by usmcobra (Your chances of dying in bed are reduced by getting out of it, but most people still die in bed)
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To: curiosity
If the vault copy of his birth certificate which is under seal in Hawaii and his certificate of live birth do not differ, what would be the purpose of sealing the birth certificate?

What would be a logical reason for Obama's refusal to release it and put the issue to rest?

It defies common sense.

70 posted on 03/13/2009 5:33:57 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: Madame Dufarge
If the vault copy of his birth certificate which is under seal in Hawaii and his certificate of live birth do not differ, what would be the purpose of sealing the birth certificate?

Hawaii state law is what keeps it sealed. He did not write that law. His vault copy is being treated no differently than any one else's.

71 posted on 03/13/2009 8:43:51 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: Velveeta

So are you claiming that if you try to use a Hawaiian certification of live birth to get a passport, the passport office will tell you it’s no good? Because that’s simply false.


72 posted on 03/13/2009 9:33:34 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: curiosity
Hawaii state law permits him to produce it.

He's hiding behind the state law.

73 posted on 03/13/2009 11:11:14 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep; curiosity; Polarik; LucyT; null and void; BP2
I'm not claiming anything. I'm reading from the link that curiosity provided. "Simply false"???? LOL

Sorry, Bubba - you're simply wrong.

From the State Department website:

Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following): Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state*

Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth

Naturalization Certificate

Certificate of Citizenship

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#PrimaryEvCitiz

Repeating one more time for good measure:

Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

74 posted on 03/13/2009 11:15:57 AM PDT by Velveeta
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To: All

And furthermore, IMO if the short, abstract certifiCATION is not acceptable for passport purposes...

...it sure as hell shouldn’t be acceptable as proof of natural born citizenship for President of the United States.


75 posted on 03/13/2009 11:18:15 AM PDT by Velveeta
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To: STARWISE

Ping to 74 and 75 please


76 posted on 03/13/2009 11:20:30 AM PDT by Velveeta
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To: Polarik
If you see a guy standing in line in the passport office, and he's carrying his desktop and monitor with him to show the Immigration Officer an image of his birth certificate, that will be curiosity.

ROFL! Needs to be repeated. ;^)

77 posted on 03/13/2009 11:28:11 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Velveeta
Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

I think you'll find that references something called a "Wallet-Size" birth certificate available from some states.

Here's a link (pdf file) to a Connecticut birth certificate app, which includes an option for the "Wallet-Size," with this caveat:

NOTE THAT THE WALLET SIZE BIRTH CERTIFICATE CONTAINS LESS INFORMATION THAN THE FULL SIZE CERTIFICATE. IT MAY NOT SATISFY ALL PROOF OF IDENTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS SUCH AS THOSE NEEDED TO OBTAIN PASSPORTS.

Sorry for the caps -- that's directly from the app.

The certification of live birth -- (I have one of those from another state. It is very similar to Obama's and it was acceptable to obtain a passport.) -- contains all the requirements you quoted: "registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth."

78 posted on 03/13/2009 11:31:33 AM PDT by browardchad
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To: Velveeta; Amityschild; Calpernia; ~Kim4VRWC's~; 1COUNTER-MORTER-68; 21stCenturyFreeThinker; ...

FYI, Fox is reporting right now that it’s quite easy to get a US passport with forged documents...


79 posted on 03/13/2009 11:47:17 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 53 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: null and void
FYI, Fox is reporting right now that it’s quite easy to get a US passport with forged documents...

Yes, FOX news it certainly is easy. The many ways you can get a US passport without a birth certificate.

Secondary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship, U.S. Department of State.

80 posted on 03/13/2009 11:53:21 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid; All
One of these days I'm going to catch one of these threads in the very beginning, I wan to time exactly how long it takes for the usual trolls to show up.

They must have radar activated BC pinging beebers

81 posted on 03/13/2009 12:00:44 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (FUBO, he says we should listen to our enemies, but not to Rush - and zer0 has already failed)
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To: browardchad

Barry’s Certification of Live Birth is a short form - Abstract.

Whether wallet-sized, billboard-sized, or postage stamp-sized, it’s still a short form abstract and according to the Department of State website “may not be acceptable for passport purposes”.


82 posted on 03/13/2009 12:03:13 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: Red Steel
Pinging MM

Don't forget Star Traveler

83 posted on 03/13/2009 12:04:21 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (FUBO, he says we should listen to our enemies, but not to Rush - and zer0 has already failed)
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To: null and void

I missed it, darn.


84 posted on 03/13/2009 12:04:45 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: null and void

Is Fox preparing their audience for the possibility?


85 posted on 03/13/2009 12:05:31 PM PDT by autumnraine (Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose- Kris Kristoferrson VIVA LA REVOLUTION!)
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To: null and void

I also hear you can become president without any proof you are a natural born citizen as well.How ‘bout that?


86 posted on 03/13/2009 12:07:08 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's even tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron; Red Steel

MM went bye bye a few days ago.

ST will probably be here soon....


87 posted on 03/13/2009 12:15:32 PM PDT by azishot (I just joined the NRA.)
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To: azishot
MM went bye bye a few days ago.

Darn, I never got to see his posts :)

88 posted on 03/13/2009 12:21:52 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (FUBO, he says we should listen to our enemies, but not to Rush - and zer0 has already failed)
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To: null and void

Thanks for the ping.

FYI, Fox is reporting right now that it’s quite easy to get a US passport with forged documents...

***Real safe system they have, huh? I guess BO figured that out a while ago.


89 posted on 03/13/2009 12:22:24 PM PDT by azishot (I just joined the NRA.)
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To: usmcobra
I hear the story all the time from Cubans in Miami.

What's the Cuba angle, I've missed the story.

Is Castro zer0 daddy? Just kidding...seriously what's the story?

90 posted on 03/13/2009 12:24:08 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (FUBO, he says we should listen to our enemies, but not to Rush - and zer0 has already failed)
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To: Velveeta
Barry’s Certification of Live Birth is a short form - Abstract.

No, it's not an abstract, in the sense used by the DOS. It fulfills all the qualifications listed by the DOS.

Futhermore, I think you'll find that more and more states, if not all, are now or will be issuing this type of document in lieu of a photostat of an original certificate in response to a birth certificate request. It saves time in not having to research microfilm or image files, and it saves money for the same reason.

As I said above, I have one, and it's been acceptable for a passport app, and I have no reason to believe it won't be acceptable for anything else that requires proof of birth in the US.

91 posted on 03/13/2009 12:24:51 PM PDT by browardchad
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To: Las Vegas Ron

Believe me, you didn’t miss much. Even though he’s banned/suspended you can do a search using his name and some of his posts will come up.

I just tried it and they’re still there...what’s been deleted are the posts he made that resulted in his ban.

Happy reading!


92 posted on 03/13/2009 12:28:52 PM PDT by azishot (I just joined the NRA.)
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To: azishot

A hat tip to you, thanks


93 posted on 03/13/2009 12:31:00 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (FUBO, he says we should listen to our enemies, but not to Rush - and zer0 has already failed)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

Glad to help!


94 posted on 03/13/2009 12:34:05 PM PDT by azishot (I just joined the NRA.)
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To: azishot

Wow, page after page of nothing but the BC issue....wonder how much he got paid by the dnc?


95 posted on 03/13/2009 12:37:00 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (FUBO, he says we should listen to our enemies, but not to Rush - and zer0 has already failed)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

I think they do it out of “love.”

Not very well rounded individuals are they?


96 posted on 03/13/2009 12:42:56 PM PDT by azishot (I just joined the NRA.)
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To: curiosity
Not ture. The COLB posted on his website is just as good as any other document when it comes proving birth in the US. The State department accepts it, as does any court in the US.

Not true.

What is posted on his website is a web facsimile of one side of a purported document. What was posted was also altered (certificate number blacked out), which according to the posted document invalidates that document for all legal purposes.

Obama would have to make available the actual physical copy of the document so that both sides could be inspected by people.

Can you imagine what would happen if you were driving and were pulled over by a cop, and instead of showing your drivers license you pulled out your blackberry and showed an image of the front of your drivers license that you stored on your website? Could you get on a plane by showing that blackberry image to an airline ticket agent, TSA, or others?

Then why should we accept one side of a web facsimile as the real thing?

-PJ

97 posted on 03/13/2009 12:45:17 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (You can never overestimate the Democrats' ability to overplay their hand.)
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To: browardchad

Yes, it’s a computer generated abstract and does not fulfill all qualifications. Since you offered up Connecticut, let’s take a look at Connecticut:

http://www.ct.gov/doc/LIB/doc/PDF/Workbook/wb02.pdf

Application for a Copy or Abstract of Birth Certificate

IMPORTANT: Please indicate below the number and type of record requested.

CERTIFIED PHOTOCOPY - This can be used for all purposes.

CERTIFICATION OF BIRTH CARD (Wallet-Size) - Note: Available years 1973 and after.

This can be used for new school enrollment, applying for social security benefits. (For other purposes, please contact the party involved)


98 posted on 03/13/2009 12:57:18 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: Velveeta
Yes, it’s a computer generated abstract and does not fulfill all qualifications.

You offered, in Post #74, the following quote from the DOS:

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

I responded that a Certification of Live Birth, now issued by Hawaii and in various other incarnations by many other states,  fulfills the qualifications set forth by the DOS. It has "a raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal." It has "the registrar's signature." It has "the date the certificate was filed in the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of...birth."

Is this the hill you wish to stand on for this fight?

If so, it's not a winner.

99 posted on 03/13/2009 1:42:43 PM PDT by browardchad
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To: Political Junkie Too
What is posted on his website is a web facsimile of one side of a purported document.

Photographs from multiple angles were also posted later, and they clearly indicated the document meets all the legal requirements.

What was posted was also altered (certificate number blacked out), which according to the posted document invalidates that document for all legal purposes.

The image was altered, not the document itself. Furthermore, the photographs posted later did not black out the number but showed it clearly.

Obama would have to make available the actual physical copy of the document so that both sides could be inspected by people.

He did make it available at his campaign headquarters. The only people who bothered going there to inspect it were the factcheck people.

100 posted on 03/13/2009 1:44:35 PM PDT by curiosity
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