Posted on 03/12/2009 7:47:44 AM PDT by Hillary'sMoralVoid
There are at least five ways that Barack Obama can be declared ineligible for the presidency. Here is a list:
1. Obama was not born in the United States. The Certification of Live Birth that he posts on his web site proves nothing. Only the original paper certificate can address this issue, Obama refuses to release it.
2. Dual Citizenship issue: Obama could have British and American citizenship due to his father being a British subject at the time of his birth.
3. Dual Citizenship issue: Obama could have dual citizenship with Indonesia if he was adopted. His school records from Inonesia indicate he was Indonesian. He also traveled to Pakistan, but under what passport?
4. Mother's age at birth. Hawaiian laws on the books at the time of his birth hold that U.S. citizenship may only pass to a child born overseas to a U.S. citizen parent and non-citizen parent if the former was at least 19. Stanley Ann Dunham was only 18 at the time of Obama's birth.
5. Failure to formally renounce dual citizenship described above and reestablish American citizenship at some point and show proof of same.
Obama supporters have unrealistically simplified this issue down to the COLB. There are possibly more issues out there still to be investigated, perhaps willful misconduct on the potential forging of the COLB, etc.
I think that those who are bringing this issue to the attention of the courts need to step back and address the big picture first and then fill in the details.
Are there other potentially disqualifying factors missing from this list?
“There is no evidence to suggest it’s fake, some anonymous blogger with a phony Ph.D.’s absurd claims notwithstanding.”
Hussein’s lawyers don’t seem to have much faith in that bogus COLB either. They have not referenced it in any of their legal filings.
bookmark
Thanks for the ping, null and void.
Forged Image vs Reality bump.
"A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth."
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html
Thanks for the link, you have proven yourself incorrect.
The Hawaii COLB has all of these things.
A COLB is a CertificaTION and NOT a Birth Certificate.
LOL!
Never in the history of our nation has any president acted to prevent such information from becoming available to the electorate in tis way, expendng such resources.
I am very interested to hear what your thoughts might be on tha matter.
There is no birther movement. However there are patriots who seek clarity on the issue as a constitutional matter, and those involved in the actual defacto discovery processs come from all walks of life, many having served our nation for heir entire careers.
It is not inapproprioate to ask the questions being asked because they are questions made pursuant to Article II, section 1 of our constitution., and theorizing in the absence of such facts is quite ordinary, and would be expected by anyone seekinng the office of the presidency. It is only the presidents popularity which has allowed him to be successful inn not beinng required to answer such questions.
So what is you theory as to why the president has not disclosed the defacto information on his birth, and has isolated the documentation which would reveal it?
You also have to realize that these laws in regards to citizenship of people born in Hawaii was due to the fact that they had just recently attained statehood. Hence why the state may have had different requirements at that time than the Federal laws pertaining to people born in the other states. The fact is, the law was on the books and active at the time Obama was supposedly born, and do apply in his case.
I zing. Not ping. It's ma thing.
Your premise is wrong. He has done no such thing.
estimates vary, but he has so far ivested well over 1 million dollars in combined legal fees and travel expences to keep it hidden.
Estimates vary? LOL. No, it's more like numbers people pull out of their rears vary.
Pinging MM
Where are you?
ESAD.
Your facts are wrong. He certainly has, and has used due process to obtain that result.
The legal fees he has paid are extensive.
This is not about premises.
It is about our constutution and defending it.And it is about also respecting the patriotic orientation of those who do pose the necessary questions. What is your idea of defending the constitution. NOT asking these questions? Interesting.
If you do honor and respect that patriotic process , why are you here trying to "defuse" the momentum of the issue?
I mean do you actually post to any other threads on FR other than so called"birther" threads?
No you do not.
All very intersting.
Failure to register in a timely fashion with the Selective Service (Draft), and subsequent possible forgery of registration forms—a Felony, iirc. While not a NBC issue, it may indicate dual/non US citizenship; intended to provide an out if the draft was re-started, and indicative of not placing the US first.
Unless he attended college in the US as an Indonesian student, in which case it is relevant, as are his admissions records and transcripts. YMMV.
Not an ad, but an article on travel in Pakistan, including the information on how to get a visa. Also posts from people who said they did travel to Pakistan and the link Deport posted in an earlier thread to the State Department's travel advisory. I'd be happy to see evidence there was a travel ban - it would make a stronger case. But what I've seen is evidence there wasn't, and your brother's situation is just more evidence there was no ban. I do not doubt travel was difficult as your brother's experience shows.
I hadn't thought of that. It's certainly possible - do we have any evidence?
Frankly I find it amazing that Obama’s defenders like your self steadfastly refuse to see the issue resolved in a court of law with all it’s consequences and would rather fight it out on the internet based upon rumors and web based articles you cannot prove.
All Obama has to do is prove he is a natural born citizen in court and he can sue for defamation anyone that has alleged he is not, for millions of dollars in damages.
And quite honestly isn’t that how community organizers force the will of their communities on companies and businesses that don’t respond to their needs by suing the pants off them?
Why then is Obama so hesitant to defend his very citizenship in a court of law especially if as you say it is so easy to prove?
Question: has that legendary Cuban trip ever been documented? There is a black “camarada” in Cuba who claims to be Zer0’s daddy. But has anyone dug up the proof that Annie actually went there? She would have been underage in the fall of 1960. She was, of course, a “red diaper” baby so maybe her folks were all in favor of Annie participating in “La Revolución.”
I hear the story all the time from Cubans in Miami.
But then again Kenyans say Obama was born in Kenya.....
What would be a logical reason for Obama's refusal to release it and put the issue to rest?
It defies common sense.
Hawaii state law is what keeps it sealed. He did not write that law. His vault copy is being treated no differently than any one else's.
So are you claiming that if you try to use a Hawaiian certification of live birth to get a passport, the passport office will tell you it’s no good? Because that’s simply false.
He's hiding behind the state law.
Sorry, Bubba - you're simply wrong.
From the State Department website:
Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following): Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state*
Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth
Naturalization Certificate
Certificate of Citizenship
*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#PrimaryEvCitiz
Repeating one more time for good measure:
Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.
And furthermore, IMO if the short, abstract certifiCATION is not acceptable for passport purposes...
...it sure as hell shouldn’t be acceptable as proof of natural born citizenship for President of the United States.
Ping to 74 and 75 please
ROFL! Needs to be repeated. ;^)
I think you'll find that references something called a "Wallet-Size" birth certificate available from some states.
Here's a link (pdf file) to a Connecticut birth certificate app, which includes an option for the "Wallet-Size," with this caveat:
NOTE THAT THE WALLET SIZE BIRTH CERTIFICATE CONTAINS LESS INFORMATION THAN THE FULL SIZE CERTIFICATE. IT MAY NOT SATISFY ALL PROOF OF IDENTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS SUCH AS THOSE NEEDED TO OBTAIN PASSPORTS.
Sorry for the caps -- that's directly from the app.
The certification of live birth -- (I have one of those from another state. It is very similar to Obama's and it was acceptable to obtain a passport.) -- contains all the requirements you quoted: "registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth."
FYI, Fox is reporting right now that it’s quite easy to get a US passport with forged documents...
Yes, FOX news it certainly is easy. The many ways you can get a US passport without a birth certificate.
Secondary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship, U.S. Department of State.
They must have radar activated BC pinging beebers
Barry’s Certification of Live Birth is a short form - Abstract.
Whether wallet-sized, billboard-sized, or postage stamp-sized, it’s still a short form abstract and according to the Department of State website “may not be acceptable for passport purposes”.
Don't forget Star Traveler
I missed it, darn.
Is Fox preparing their audience for the possibility?
I also hear you can become president without any proof you are a natural born citizen as well.How ‘bout that?
MM went bye bye a few days ago.
ST will probably be here soon....
Darn, I never got to see his posts :)
Thanks for the ping.
FYI, Fox is reporting right now that it’s quite easy to get a US passport with forged documents...
***Real safe system they have, huh? I guess BO figured that out a while ago.
What's the Cuba angle, I've missed the story.
Is Castro zer0 daddy? Just kidding...seriously what's the story?
No, it's not an abstract, in the sense used by the DOS. It fulfills all the qualifications listed by the DOS.
Futhermore, I think you'll find that more and more states, if not all, are now or will be issuing this type of document in lieu of a photostat of an original certificate in response to a birth certificate request. It saves time in not having to research microfilm or image files, and it saves money for the same reason.
As I said above, I have one, and it's been acceptable for a passport app, and I have no reason to believe it won't be acceptable for anything else that requires proof of birth in the US.
Believe me, you didn’t miss much. Even though he’s banned/suspended you can do a search using his name and some of his posts will come up.
I just tried it and they’re still there...what’s been deleted are the posts he made that resulted in his ban.
Happy reading!
A hat tip to you, thanks
Glad to help!
Wow, page after page of nothing but the BC issue....wonder how much he got paid by the dnc?
I think they do it out of “love.”
Not very well rounded individuals are they?
Not true.
What is posted on his website is a web facsimile of one side of a purported document. What was posted was also altered (certificate number blacked out), which according to the posted document invalidates that document for all legal purposes.
Obama would have to make available the actual physical copy of the document so that both sides could be inspected by people.
Can you imagine what would happen if you were driving and were pulled over by a cop, and instead of showing your drivers license you pulled out your blackberry and showed an image of the front of your drivers license that you stored on your website? Could you get on a plane by showing that blackberry image to an airline ticket agent, TSA, or others?
Then why should we accept one side of a web facsimile as the real thing?
-PJ
Yes, it’s a computer generated abstract and does not fulfill all qualifications. Since you offered up Connecticut, let’s take a look at Connecticut:
http://www.ct.gov/doc/LIB/doc/PDF/Workbook/wb02.pdf
Application for a Copy or Abstract of Birth Certificate
IMPORTANT: Please indicate below the number and type of record requested.
CERTIFIED PHOTOCOPY - This can be used for all purposes.
CERTIFICATION OF BIRTH CARD (Wallet-Size) - Note: Available years 1973 and after.
This can be used for new school enrollment, applying for social security benefits. (For other purposes, please contact the party involved)
You offered, in Post #74, the following quote from the DOS:
*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.
I responded that a Certification of Live Birth, now issued by Hawaii and in various other incarnations by many other states, fulfills the qualifications set forth by the DOS. It has "a raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal." It has "the registrar's signature." It has "the date the certificate was filed in the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of...birth."
Is this the hill you wish to stand on for this fight?
If so, it's not a winner.
Photographs from multiple angles were also posted later, and they clearly indicated the document meets all the legal requirements.
What was posted was also altered (certificate number blacked out), which according to the posted document invalidates that document for all legal purposes.
The image was altered, not the document itself. Furthermore, the photographs posted later did not black out the number but showed it clearly.
Obama would have to make available the actual physical copy of the document so that both sides could be inspected by people.
He did make it available at his campaign headquarters. The only people who bothered going there to inspect it were the factcheck people.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.