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Morally Unserious in the Extreme (Charles Krauthammer)
Real Clear Politics ^ | 3-13-09 | Charles Krauthammer

Posted on 03/13/2009 10:53:01 PM PDT by STARWISE

Edited on 03/14/2009 5:06:16 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Last week, the White House invited me to a signing ceremony overturning the Bush (43) executive order on stem cell research. I assume this was because I have long argued in these columns and during my five years on the President's Council on Bioethics that, contrary to the Bush policy, federal funding should be extended to research on embryonic stem cell lines derived from discarded embryos in fertility clinics.


(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bho44; bhostemcells; bioethics; cloning; embryonicstemcells; krauthammer; obama; obamatruthfile
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1 posted on 03/13/2009 10:53:01 PM PDT by STARWISE
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To: NYer; wagglebee; Bahbah; Miss Didi; Miss Marple; silent_jonny; Salvation; bray; Faith; shield; ...

~~PING!


2 posted on 03/13/2009 10:54:31 PM PDT by STARWISE (They (LIBS-STILL) think of this WOT as Bush's war, not America's war- Richard Miniter)
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To: STARWISE

I thought it was above his paygrade.


3 posted on 03/13/2009 10:59:55 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs earn the title of "man's best friend", Muslims hate dogs,,add that up.)
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To: STARWISE

And i never hear a good explanation. If it really will change medicine the way they claim, make the paraplegic walk, etc. Then why is no private money interested in funding and patenting the research?

It would be like discovering viagra, times 50.


4 posted on 03/13/2009 11:03:12 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs earn the title of "man's best friend", Muslims hate dogs,,add that up.)
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To: STARWISE

Krauthammer sounds ambiguous about abortion.


5 posted on 03/13/2009 11:05:07 PM PDT by wardaddy (The world has gone to shite since I was a lad in the idyllic 60s)
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To: STARWISE
I know this is off the main topic, but...

Do plants have stem cells?

In theory, is it possible to grow an apple or a marijuana bud in a petri dish?

No soil, no pests, no stalks or leaves, no weather.

In theory, it seems like a productivity miracle.

6 posted on 03/13/2009 11:12:21 PM PDT by zeestephen
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To: DesertRhino

The hammer is right on once again. He knocks over Obama’s army of straw men.


7 posted on 03/13/2009 11:13:59 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: STARWISE
Chuckie really bothers me. All during the election he was trashing McCain and after every debate he'd conclude McCain had lost. He seriously deflated the GOP filed workers and supporters. Now that Obama has won, Chuckie is trashing him. I think Chuckie is so smart that he's confused. I really don't give a rip what he has to say. He helped elect Obama. Now... he should just shut up. He is making himself look quite hypocritical.
8 posted on 03/13/2009 11:14:05 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: STARWISE

“Obama Signs Law Banning Federal Embryo Research Two Days After Signing Executive Order to OK It”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2206305/posts


9 posted on 03/13/2009 11:17:14 PM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: zeestephen
Yes.

Hydroponic gardening as an industry is doing well here in SE Ohio.

10 posted on 03/13/2009 11:46:21 PM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: wardaddy

The comments I’ve heard him mention about pro-life
issues strike me as unusual, given his brilliance
on the conservative side, but I guess his statement
about not being religious covers it all. He’s a
scientist, and probably an athiest, or at most agnostic.

I think he’s physically suffered greatly; it’s a
chore for him to even breathe and talk. But alas,
it doesn’t appear that he’s a devout pro-life champion.

~~~

A couple of background pieces

A Man for All Seasons

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/krauthammer082800.asp
.

Bio from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Krauthammer

*snip*

(The answers regarding his ideology are detailed here)

Ideology

Krauthammer is generally considered a conservative.[18]

However, on domestic issues, Krauthammer is a supporter of legalized abortion;[19][20][21] an opponent of the death penalty;[22][23][24][25] an intelligent design critic and an advocate for the scientific consensus on evolution, calling the religion-science controversy a “false conflict;”[26][27] a supporter of embryonic stem cell research using embryos discarded by fertility clinics with restrictions in its applications;[28][29][30] and a longtime advocate of radically higher energy taxes to induce conservation.

[31][32][33][34] Meg Greenfield, editorial page editor for The Washington Post who edited Krauthammer’s columns for 15 years, called his weekly column “independent and hard to peg politically. It’s a very tough column. There’s no ‘trendy’ in it. You never know what is going to happen next.”[1]


11 posted on 03/13/2009 11:58:50 PM PDT by STARWISE (They (LIBS-STILL) think of this WOT as Bush's war, not America's war- Richard Miniter)
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To: STARWISE

On the other hand, 0 IS the moral equivalent of a hangnail.


12 posted on 03/14/2009 12:06:39 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: DesertRhino

Proponents Federal funding for research on new fetal stem cell strains really want to promote unrestricted abortion. They’re too dishonest to say so, however.


13 posted on 03/14/2009 12:37:06 AM PDT by Post Toasties (Conservatives allow the guilty to be executed but Lefties insist that the innocent be executed.)
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To: Post Toasties

Proponents of Federal funding for research on new fetal stem cell strains really want to promote unrestricted abortion. They’re too dishonest to say so, however.


14 posted on 03/14/2009 12:40:32 AM PDT by Post Toasties (Conservatives allow the guilty to be executed but Lefties insist that the innocent be executed.)
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To: DesertRhino

“I thought it was above his paygrade.”

You don’t understand. Saving babies is above his pay grade. Encouraging and enabling their murder is squarely within his core competency.


15 posted on 03/14/2009 12:49:53 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: STARWISE
Starwise, thanks for the post regarding Dr. K's Harvard Med School professor, Dr. Hermann Lisco, ‘A Man for all Seasons’. Amazing story about a great intellect, scientist and teacher that is reflected in Dr. Krauthammer.
16 posted on 03/14/2009 1:00:18 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: zeestephen
I know of cloning tobacco back in 1970s. Grafting branches into trees is a way to reproduce seedless fruits.
17 posted on 03/14/2009 1:21:06 AM PDT by carumba (The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. Groucho)
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To: STARWISE
Krauthammer was paralyzed in a diving accident in 1972. This accident caused severe damage to his spinal cord which permanently confined him to a wheel chair. Krauthammer would be open for the use of embryonic stem cells if it meant a cure for his condition.

However, stem cells from other sources look like the best route for the quest for regeneration of human tissues. Scientists at the Royal Adelaide Hospital's Hanson Institute are using discarded baby teeth to grow human tissue. Stem cells taken from such teeth are being used to grow all types of human tissue; including spinal cord tissue.

18 posted on 03/14/2009 2:14:57 AM PDT by jonrick46 (The Obama Administration is a blueprint for Fabian Socialism.)
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To: STARWISE
"if human embryonic stem cell research does not make you at least a little bit uncomfortable, you have not thought about it enough."

Think? Why should anti-Christian liberals think when they have their daily sound bite to think for them?

19 posted on 03/14/2009 2:55:25 AM PDT by Quiller (When you're fighting to survive, there is no "try" -- there is only do, or do not.)
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To: wardaddy

He is Pro Abortion!


20 posted on 03/14/2009 3:09:40 AM PDT by philly-d-kidder (Those who know the truth, no explanation is needed. those who refuse 2 know, no explanation is enuf!)
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To: April Lexington

It bothers you that Chuck was right?

McCain ran his whole campaign like a concession speech.

Palin pulled him into contention for a while, until McCainiacs undermined her.


21 posted on 03/14/2009 3:20:36 AM PDT by donmeaker (You may not be interested in War but War is interested in you.)
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To: STARWISE
“I am not religious. I do not believe that personhood is conferred upon conception. But I also do not believe that a human embryo is the moral equivalent of a hangnail and deserves no more respect than an appendix.”

Mr. Krauthammer is not religious but he apparently can't stomach the implications of being so.

A corpse is given respectful treatment because it is the earthly remains of a Human Being. It represents all that is left upon this earth of a Life granted by God. There is no reason a ‘thing’, a collection of cells, that has in Mr. Krauthammers view no ‘person hood’ should be accorded treatment any different than an excised tumor. None. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. One would think that a guy in a wheelchair with a name like 'Krauthammer' would be aware of the danger of leaving the authority for conferring 'person hood' to men.

22 posted on 03/14/2009 4:59:25 AM PDT by TalBlack
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I like reading Charles Krauthammer, but

don't over think it

egg + sperm = fully complete human

just wait, and you'll see...

23 posted on 03/14/2009 5:47:04 AM PDT by Cyber Ninja (His legacy is a stain OnTheDress)
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To: OnTheDress
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
24 posted on 03/14/2009 5:50:43 AM PDT by Cyber Ninja (His legacy is a stain OnTheDress)
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To: Post Toasties

“Proponents Federal funding for research on new fetal stem cell strains really want to promote unrestricted abortion.......”
__________________________________________________________

I think you are correct that it really is about abortion. Abortion is a very lucrative and profitable industry. Embryonic stem cell research, which has shown NO results for medicine, will only open the gates more and more for abortion.

Millions and millions and MILLIONS have been murdered as a result of abortion and their blood will not go un-avenged.


25 posted on 03/14/2009 6:21:21 AM PDT by TMA62 (TMA62)
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To: STARWISE

The whole argument of allowing embryonic stem cell research for science and healing is a lie much like evolution and global warming. The only reason dems want stem cell research is to propagate the evil sin of abortion, a hate filled act of the ignorant mind of those who live in darkness and is worse than slavery, which cost over 400,000 American citizens to go to their death.
Abortion is no less a sin then slavery and is the murder of young children now funded by taxpayers money.
Sin always brings death and judgment of God upon those who hate his right ways.


26 posted on 03/14/2009 6:28:21 AM PDT by kindred (Conservatives have 4 years to start a new conservative party or lose more elections.)
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To: STARWISE

My take on K-Hammer: he’s one of the sharpest knifes in the conservative toolbox, and he’s reliably incisive when it comes to issues with little or no moral component. And he’s not too bad on a lot of those which have a signficant moral component.

But because he has no religious beliefs, on those issues which have a strong moral dimension (such as abortion), like most humanists, his views reflect an ethical foundation built on sand. A belief in a higher power isn’t essential to view things like abortion as an insult to human dignity (pro-lifers don’t come any stronger than the atheist Nat Henthof), but it is a lot tougher to come to that position absent the ethical grounding of theistic belief system.

But I do respect him more than just about any humanist going because he’s so intellectually honest - I think that’s what really honks him off about Obama. In addition, unlike most humanists, he has a real respect for religiously-based viewpoints he disagrees with, provided they’re expressed in an intelligent and non-doctrinaire fashion. Try to dig up some of his other impressions of his work on Bush’s ethics commission - he’s uniformly fair and respectful of all reasonable views, and (again) very complementry of Bush’s wisdom in these matters.


27 posted on 03/14/2009 6:38:51 AM PDT by Stosh
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To: STARWISE

“I am not religious. I do not believe that personhood is conferred upon conception. But I also do not believe that a human embryo is the moral equivalent of a hangnail and deserves no more respect than an appendix.”

Damn, this statement, from a man I respect, really is troubling. If personhood or whatever he calls being a human being does not begin at conception he needs to offer an opinion on when it does begin. This is the quandary all pro abortionists are required to answer if they are going to defend abortion. And, if life does not begin at conception then the embryo does not deserve any more respect than a hangnail or an appendix. After all, if it is not a person, it is just a glob of tissue, much like an appendix and deserves no rights.


28 posted on 03/14/2009 6:41:25 AM PDT by yazoo
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To: STARWISE
I am not religious. I do not believe that personhood is conferred upon conception. But I also do not believe that a human embryo is the moral equivalent of a hangnail and deserves no more respect than an appendix.

Sorry, Chuck, personhood is not "conferred," it is inherent.
29 posted on 03/14/2009 6:44:34 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Rudder
"Hydroponic gardening as an industry is doing well here in SE Ohio."

Growing Marijuana in a hydroponic garden under lights is the best way to do it. You can fully customize the plants, and they are far more potent.

30 posted on 03/14/2009 7:20:58 AM PDT by KoRn
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...

Obama Signs Law Banning Federal Embryo Research
Two Days After Signing Executive Order to OK It
CNS News | March 13, 2009 | Terence P. Jeffrey
Posted on 03/13/2009 8:12:20 PM PDT by Between the Lines
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2206305/posts

[snip] On Wednesday, only two days after he lifted President Bush’s executive order banning federal funding of stem cell research that requires the destruction of human embryos, President Barack Obama signed a law that explicilty bans federal funding of any “research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death.” [end]


31 posted on 03/14/2009 7:37:21 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: STARWISE
Obama has nothing to say. He leaves it entirely to the scientists. This is more than moral abdication. It is acquiescence to the mystique of "science" and its inherent moral benevolence. How anyone as sophisticated as Obama can believe this within living memory of Mengele and Tuskegee and the fake (and coercive) South Korean stem cell research is hard to fathom.

Not really, Charles. History tells us that doctors can be great fascist lapdogs.

32 posted on 03/14/2009 8:46:02 AM PDT by GVnana
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To: DesertRhino

“Then why is no private money interested in funding and patenting the research?”

From what I’ve read, the whole issue is that there would be no way to reliably ‘patent’ anything. Consequently, it’s not worth the investment of time & money for a private corporation to do this research.


33 posted on 03/14/2009 9:28:49 AM PDT by Twotone
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To: STARWISE

“I suggested the bright line prohibiting the deliberate creation of human embryos solely for the instrumental purpose of research — a clear violation of the categorical imperative not to make a human life (even if only a potential human life) a means rather than an end.”
_________________
This is so disgusting .... I have no words. We have a deranged Communist beast in the WH.


34 posted on 03/14/2009 10:39:50 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( Idiots elected a Marxist ideologue with narcissistic personality disorder & America is dying.)
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To: kindred

Abortion as a cruel human practice exponentially dwarfs slavery in it’s evil...particularly when compared to the North American trade.

The numbers involved alone are proof enough.

Not to mention economics and religious and social mores generally forbid murdering one’s slave at least in the US.

Abortion has murdered more human beings worldwide than anything in history including war....and all in just a few decades.


35 posted on 03/14/2009 10:57:31 AM PDT by wardaddy (The world has gone to shite since I was a lad in the idyllic 60s)
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To: Twotone
From what I’ve read, the whole issue is that there would be no way to reliably ‘patent’ anything. Consequently, it’s not worth the investment of time & money for a private corporation to do this research.

I doubt that's true, since companies are investing time and money into adult stem cell research.

What I read was that fetal stem cell lines are harder to control in the lab and go cancerous more often than the adult stem cells. Which should be reason enough to avoid them altogether.

36 posted on 03/14/2009 10:58:29 AM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: philly-d-kidder

Krathhammer used to write for the New Republic just like Barnes and Kondracker and O’Rourke.

many folks here don’t know that and think his hawkish views on Israel make him conservative

far from it.

he’s also somewhat pro-gun control

it amazes me how little some freepers keep up...folks who should know better


37 posted on 03/14/2009 10:59:48 AM PDT by wardaddy (The world has gone to shite since I was a lad in the idyllic 60s)
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To: zeestephen

I think the old term for this is “hydroponic gardening”.


38 posted on 03/14/2009 11:31:32 AM PDT by willgolfforfood
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To: STARWISE; wardaddy; iopscusa
Being an atheist does not exclude one from being consistently pro-life; on the contrary, there some splendidly effective prolife atheists out there. Other than Nat Hentoff, who is my secret sweetie (!), my favorite is the brilliant Doris Gordon, of Libertarians for life, who provides this info. online:

Name: Doris Gordon
Location: Wheaton, MD, USA
Email: libertarian@erols.com
URL: http://www.L4L.org/
Nontheist position: The closest label for me on your list seems to be nontheist. I see no ~reason~ to accept the idea of God.
Pro-life position: [Please refer to Doris Gordon's Pro-life Position in Brief in the AAPL Library --Webmaster]
Political affiliation/orientation: Libertarian
Party/Libertarian

They have an intellectually delicious website at
http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html

Incidentally, the Catholic Church argues that the prolife ethic is part of Natural Law --- meaning, not "that which exists in a state of nature," but "that which is knowable via natural reason, without adverting to supernatural revelation."
39 posted on 03/14/2009 12:15:45 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The first duty of intelligent men of our day is the restatement of the obvious. " - George Orwell)
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To: STARWISE
Dr. James Thomson, the discoverer of embryonic stem cells, said "if human embryonic stem cell research does not make you at least a little bit uncomfortable, you have not thought about it enough." Obama clearly has not.

Obama clearly knows what he is doing. He clearly knows the immorality of embryonic stem cell research. And he clearly knows, as do most democrats, that abortion is the murdering of a human life.

Why strain to excuse and confuse the issue, Mr Krauthammer? It is very clear that everything that Obama has undertaken to do has been what they could not do in the last 8 years. It is clear that they will use any excuse and any crisis to pursue what most thinking people would not under "normal" circumstances.
40 posted on 03/14/2009 12:29:41 PM PDT by adorno (<br><br>)
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To: Stosh
My take on K-Hammer: he’s one of the sharpest knifes in the conservative toolbox

He demonstrates perfectly why Libertarian ≠ Conservative.

41 posted on 03/14/2009 3:01:33 PM PDT by itsahoot (We will have world government. Whether by conquest or consent. Obama it is then.)
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To: freeangel; unkus
On the other hand, 0 IS the moral equivalent of a hangnail.

No, more like the moral equivalent of an ingrown toenail.

Amazing << Hear this. Feel this, and tell me that this isn't music.

Oh, dear...


42 posted on 03/14/2009 4:50:23 PM PDT by rdb3 (The mouth is the exhaust pipe of the heart.)
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To: itsahoot

Your point’s well taken.

My only quibble - I don’t think one can easily pigeonhole Krauthammer in either the conservative or libertarian camp (he’s certainly not out there with the hard-core Randians).

But if you wanted to argue he’s more libertarian than conservative, I’d have a hard time refuting you.

Still like the guy, though.


43 posted on 03/14/2009 6:09:22 PM PDT by Stosh
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To: donmeaker
It bothers me. Chuck was being an intellectual while a communist was being elected. Now... he's on the the side and he looks like a hypocrite.
44 posted on 03/14/2009 6:35:16 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: rdb3

LOL-That’s a good one.


45 posted on 03/14/2009 7:26:45 PM PDT by unkus
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To: jonrick46

Do the baby teeth have to be newly “lost”....or preserved in some way.....just wondering....I have some of my 38 year old son’s baby teeth....wondering if they might come in handy sometime for him???


46 posted on 03/14/2009 8:24:26 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Conservative and fighting for freedom and liberty....whether you like it or not.)
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To: April Lexington

I never wondered where Charles Krauthamer was coming from nor frome whence came Kristol and Barnes. Are you somehow naming Charles Chuckie?

Is that meant to demean? And if so say something about Barnes and Kristol because I’m starting to get the impression there is a certain secret handshake I’ve not been shown.


47 posted on 03/14/2009 8:27:34 PM PDT by widdle_wabbit (Rush Is Right; Does understanding that make me a Conservative?)
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To: widdle_wabbit
Well.... if we showed you, it wouldn't be secret any longer, now would it?

You are reading too much into my comments. I just find Charles to be a hypocrite after trashing McCain in all of the debates, thus undermining VERY weak support. And now, somehow this genius is just now seeing Obama as the threat he is. Pathetic. Krauthammer is a bona fide genius. His resume is breathtaking. He is a true intellectual and the .0005% of us GOP members who are attracted to the intellectual GOP (stop laughing) find him compelling. We were disappointed by his lack of enthusiasm for McCain when any simple moron could see that Obama would be a spectacular disaster. It just burns me. Reminds me of the intellectuals in Germany that thought Hitler would be a breath of fresh air for the Deutsche Volk. Some breath! AGGGUHHH!

48 posted on 03/14/2009 9:47:30 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: goodnesswins
As far as I know, the baby teeth are the ones that fall out as the adult ones come in. I am not sure how the scientists preserve these teeth. There may be a scientific journal on line that may go into more detail.

There is other scientific talk about growing new teeth that have been removed. I think this too is using the baby teeth stem cells. Just think, no more expensive crowns and root canals. Just pull it out and grow a new one.

49 posted on 03/14/2009 11:58:37 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The Obama Administration is a blueprint for Fabian Socialism.)
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To: wardaddy

Krauthypocrite is a tool.


50 posted on 03/15/2009 12:00:22 AM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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