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Pa. Amish farmer gets jailtime in outhouse dispute (school, outhouses ordered padlocked by Judge)
AP on SFGate.com ^ | 3/17/09 | Genaro C. Armas - ap

Posted on 03/17/2009 3:06:28 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

Ebensburg, Pa. (AP) --

A western Pennsylvania Amish farmer was sentenced Tuesday to 90 days in jail after refusing to bring a pair of outhouses into compliance with state sewage laws.

Andy Swartzentruber, of Ebensburg, cited his conservative religious beliefs in refusing to abide by a court order to make the privies used by schoolchildren compliant and pay a $500 fine.

Cambria County Judge Norman Krumenacker said he respected the Amish's religious beliefs but had no choice but to sentence Swartzentruber to jail and fine him $1,000 for being in contempt of court.

"Quite frankly, this is not a religious issue," Krumenacker said.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: amish; dispute; eminentdomain; environazis; jailtime; kelo; outhouse; tyranny
Judge Sludge has spoken..
1 posted on 03/17/2009 3:06:28 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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This one smells.


2 posted on 03/17/2009 3:07:09 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Sure makes one think twice before buying any produce from any Amish. Might as well buy it in Mexico.


3 posted on 03/17/2009 3:14:19 PM PDT by EggsAckley ("There's an Ethiopian in the fuel supply." W.C Fields)
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To: EggsAckley

It seems to me one can keep things clean without using modern technology. It would be more work, but the Amish aren’t afraid of work.


4 posted on 03/17/2009 3:17:13 PM PDT by Marie2 (Ora et labora)
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To: Marie2

The solution here is simple, don’t call them outhouses. Call them composting toilets. Swear that you owe allegiance to the great AlGore and are fighting to save the planet.


5 posted on 03/17/2009 3:20:51 PM PDT by rednesss (fascism is the union,marriage,merger or fusion of corporate economic power with governmental power)
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To: NormsRevenge

Gee, outhouses have worked for centuries - we still have one at the deer shack.


6 posted on 03/17/2009 3:20:55 PM PDT by From The Deer Stand
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To: Marie2

I’m sorry, but dumping raw sewage onto agricultural fields doesn’t seem the least bit “clean.” I agree with trying to avoid a lot of modern technology, but I have to draw the line at raw sewage.


7 posted on 03/17/2009 3:22:59 PM PDT by EggsAckley ("There's an Ethiopian in the fuel supply." W.C Fields)
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To: EggsAckley

I was stationed in Germany. When our convoy rolled down the back roads past a farm where they were using what we called a “s***slinger” to fertilize fields, you could really smell the difference.

Using manure from any source as fertilizer is an ancient and well established practice. But public hygiene can be protected with modern methods which this particular Amish sect chose to disregard.

Wonder if their kids know about the internet?


8 posted on 03/17/2009 3:24:19 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("O Muslim! My cartridges are lubricated with pig grease!")
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To: From The Deer Stand
Gee, outhouses have worked for centuries - we still have one at the deer shack.

Shhhhhh, hope you don't live in PA.

9 posted on 03/17/2009 3:24:21 PM PDT by ozarkgirl (I'll keep my money, my freedom and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: NormsRevenge

We had 2 holers at my gradeschool in the ‘50s!


10 posted on 03/17/2009 3:28:21 PM PDT by SwinneySwitch (The Irish - beyond your expectations)
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To: NormsRevenge
What's next????


11 posted on 03/17/2009 3:29:29 PM PDT by MadelineZapeezda (Have you girded your loins today??????)
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To: EggsAckley
I don't think this story tells the whole story. When the Amish fertilize, they plow it into the soil. That way it doesn't run off and stays in the soil.

If I had to guess, I'd say some new homeowners didn't like the smell and complained.

I could be wrong.

12 posted on 03/17/2009 3:31:37 PM PDT by airborne (Obama is finishing what Osama started! The destruction of the American economy!!!)
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To: airborne

I agree. I’d like to hear the “religious” reason for refusing to abide by the law.


13 posted on 03/17/2009 3:38:14 PM PDT by malkee (Actually I'm an ex-smoker--two and a half years-- But I think about it every day.)
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To: EggsAckley

I grew up around two holers in my yout’ in a rural country school and the farm in the early 60s. Talk about an experience in the winter. ;-)


14 posted on 03/17/2009 3:42:56 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: malkee
I agree. I’d like to hear the “religious” reason for refusing to abide by the law.

I think it may be having to have an "outsider" come and pump out a "government approved" holding tank.

15 posted on 03/17/2009 3:45:05 PM PDT by airborne (Obama is finishing what Osama started! The destruction of the American economy!!!)
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To: malkee

I’ll bet that if this guy was a Muzzy the story would be different.


16 posted on 03/17/2009 3:45:31 PM PDT by biff
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To: malkee; airborne; EggsAckley

The jailed farmer is a member of the Swartzentruber Amish sect, they shun the modern world and technology bigtime.


17 posted on 03/17/2009 3:45:55 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: EggsAckley
I’m sorry, but dumping raw sewage onto agricultural fields doesn’t seem the least bit “clean.” I agree with trying to avoid a lot of modern technology, but I have to draw the line at raw sewage.

You're joking, right???

What do you think manure is??? It's sold in stores all over the country as "potting soil". Farmers have been putting poop on the soil as fertilizer since before the Egyptians were the dominant civilization on earth. All "organic" or "naturally grown" foodstuffs were fertilized with manure. Think about that when you pick up an organic bunch of carrots next time.

Creating rules and regulations without proper knowledge leads to stupid rules and tyranny. The regulation to use eco-friendly materials on the space shuttle external fuel tank lead to the destruction of the Columbia. The non-eco-friendly materials that were used were tougher than the "new" and "improved" materials. The across the board banning of DDT worldwide has caused the deaths of millions from insect borne diseases. Don't make knee-jerk reactions.

18 posted on 03/17/2009 3:52:23 PM PDT by Conservative_Rob
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To: biff

The government would be tripping over themselves to find the funding and union workers to put in the tank for a muzzie


19 posted on 03/17/2009 3:52:40 PM PDT by boxerblues (Party like its 1773)
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To: NormsRevenge

Will the jail provide an outhouse for his use? Toilets may be too modern for him to be able to use during his stay and not providing an outhouse would violate his religious rights.


20 posted on 03/17/2009 3:58:26 PM PDT by Teflonic
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To: rednesss

TROP would approve as well, as most are adorned with crescents. Most likely they are for shi’ites..


21 posted on 03/17/2009 4:01:39 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: NormsRevenge

And now one of them gets to sample all the modern conveniences of the prison.


22 posted on 03/17/2009 4:02:10 PM PDT by airborne (Obama is finishing what Osama started! The destruction of the American economy!!!)
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To: airborne

I hope he handles iron and stainless steel well. :-]


23 posted on 03/17/2009 4:03:56 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: Conservative_Rob

Thanks for that! I used to tell people my garden (which was one of the best if not the best in my small town of 750), that everything eaten from it was grown in pure manure. Of course it was composted cow manure but have you seen fresh cow manure? I could eat from the bounty of my composted manure but seeing a dog of ours slurp up some fresh cow manure sent me into a fit of gagging that would not quit!


24 posted on 03/17/2009 4:04:05 PM PDT by ozarkgirl (I'll keep my money, my freedom and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Only the “Religion of Peace” could get a free pass on those charges.


25 posted on 03/17/2009 4:08:23 PM PDT by Minutemen ("It's a Religion of Peace")
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To: EggsAckley

Seesh, we’re all too removed from a lot of this stuff. I’ll wager there is no ‘raw sewage’, or even anything close coming from these outhouses going on to any fields that raise foods directly consumed by humans.

Amish are old fashioned, not stupid.


26 posted on 03/17/2009 4:11:58 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If Liberals would pay their taxes, there would be no deficit..)
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To: Balding_Eagle
Seesh, we’re all too removed from a lot of this stuff. I’ll wager there is no ‘raw sewage’, or even anything close coming from these outhouses going on to any fields that raise foods directly consumed by humans.

Check out any large dairy farm or hog farm. The excrement (i.e. raw sewage) is collected, stored, loaded into tanks or wagons pulled by a tractor, and sprayed on the fields. Any excess is simply sprayed on the farm next door, you know, the one that doesn't have cows or hogs, but grows tomatoes or cabbage, and that farmer says, "Thank you".

Are we heading for an Upton Sinclair moment?? Ban manure and our food production will gradually decrease to the point where we won't be able to feed ourselves much less the rest of the world.

27 posted on 03/17/2009 4:30:08 PM PDT by Conservative_Rob
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To: EggsAckley

Think about the E-coli problem that got blamed on the tomatoe growers.
Turned out to be MEXICAN peppers.

They will drop trousers and crap wherever they are...they don’t care where.
That round of E-Coli was just one example.


28 posted on 03/17/2009 4:47:28 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: NormsRevenge

Leave the Amish alone for petes sake.

We have far more pressing matters and they are harmless decent people.


29 posted on 03/17/2009 5:13:20 PM PDT by lucias_clay (Its times like this I'm glad I'm a whig.)
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To: SwinneySwitch

Side by side or over under ?

:-)


30 posted on 03/17/2009 5:13:56 PM PDT by lucias_clay (Its times like this I'm glad I'm a whig.)
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To: EggsAckley

“I’m sorry, but dumping raw sewage onto agricultural fields doesn’t seem the least bit “clean.” I agree with trying to avoid a lot of modern technology, but I have to draw the line at raw sewage.”

I hear you, but I don’t think one needs to use the modern devices that are being prescribed. I think there are probably non-mechanical ways to deal with the sewage that are still sanitary. For instance a compost area were things are left to decompose until the bacteria levels get acceptable, or something.


31 posted on 03/17/2009 5:19:37 PM PDT by Marie2 (Ora et labora)
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To: Conservative_Rob

Thanks, you’ve proved my point. We’re WAY too far removed from to know our food is produced, and that’s not a good thing.

I’ve raised over 250,000 hogs. Usually they received a big premium at the slaughter house because they were of the highest quality.

Among my other duties, I was the one who was in charge of pumping the manure onto the fields. One of my other distasteful duties was killing sick animals. I’ve shot thousands.

Many, many times I was drenched to the bone with hog manure, but none of what you posted was even remotely true, even way back then. With today’s EPA the foolishness you talk about would result in fines in the hundreds of thousands and no farm would risk it.


32 posted on 03/17/2009 5:22:48 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If Liberals would pay their taxes, there would be no deficit..)
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To: EggsAckley

***Sure makes one think twice before buying any produce from any Amish. Might as well buy it in Mexico.***

Don’t worry. They wash with homemade LYE soap. It will clean anything!


33 posted on 03/17/2009 5:36:26 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.)
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To: passionfruit

I love the Amish, and would gladly eat anything they grew, cooked or processed. They are great people. One simple Amish farmer is worth more than all the stupid judges combined that we have in the U.S. today.


34 posted on 03/17/2009 5:38:13 PM PDT by holyscroller ( Without God, America is one nation under)
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To: ozarkgirl

***but seeing a dog of ours slurp up some fresh cow manure sent me into a fit of gagging that would not quit!***

Many years ago we had cat that had the scours. As it stopped to “poop” (no time to dig a hole) our pet dog was there slurping it up. My dad saw it and got sick. He had a very weak stomach.


35 posted on 03/17/2009 5:42:09 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.)
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To: EggsAckley; ozarkgirl; Balding_Eagle; Conservative_Rob; airborne
Just as the media cannot distinguish between semi autos from real machine guns they also cannot tell the difference between "raw sewage" and composting.

Composting entails taking the “"raw sewage"” placing it in a pile and mixing it with other leafy vegetation as well as other soils( depending on what you have on hand and your needs) occasionally turning it and leave it to "cook"i.e, breakdown by micros into nutrient rich soil after at least a year.

This is what you pay big bucks for this "potting soil" at your local garden store.

Farmers have been doing this for centuries, long before the era of petroleum based fertilizers times.

Raw sewage will burn the roots of a plant thus killing it. Plus if the Amish were doing it wrong, there would be be mass outbreaks of typhoid, Salmonella poisonings etc, etc. in Amish communities that third world countries get from true raw sewage

We did the same thing with cow mature to grow our garden year after year and got great harvests and stocked pantries and nobody ever got sick from food poisoning.

Something the "government inspected" Food industry cannot claim.

And unlike the corporates heads of major industrial Food producers and restaurants, the Amish regularly consume what they produce.

Uneducated bureaucrats and the media will be the death of our freedoms as well as our persons.

36 posted on 03/17/2009 6:11:36 PM PDT by RedMonqey
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To: RedMonqey

I just stepped out on the back porch. Someone is spreading chicken manure. It has been inthe air for the last three days. Not strong, but way off. The smell travels for miles.

Cow manure stinks but not real bad.

Chicken manure really stinks with a piquant ammonia aftertase on the tongue and eyes.

Pig manure stinks beyone aything immaginable! Super Bad!

Human manure from the sewage treatment plant stinks with a sickly sweet smell.

Horse manure smells like Congress is in session.


37 posted on 03/17/2009 7:13:20 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.)
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To: NormsRevenge

An article from SF about the Amish?

I don’t think anyone posting understands the Amish. The Amish in the Lancaster area used to believe that everything that came off the land should go back on.

They overfertilized the fields and raised the Nitrogen level in wells to brain-shrinking dangerous levels.

After they were hit upside the head (necessary to get their attention) they started selling the excess fertilizer to city types and making a buck instead of poisoning their wells. They do understand money is green.


38 posted on 03/17/2009 7:14:34 PM PDT by Eagles2003
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To: EggsAckley

“I’m sorry, but dumping raw sewage onto agricultural fields doesn’t seem the least bit “clean.””

Sewage can be dumped on a farm field in PA but it must be plowed under every evening.

The same farm field cannot be used to grow food for human consumption for five years after the last disposal. Rules may have been updated, but that’s what they were before the wackos took over, probably more restrictive now.

Think about that next time you see sod at your local home center.


39 posted on 03/17/2009 7:23:01 PM PDT by Eagles2003
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To: RedMonqey
Good information. And I should know.

My first paid day of work (50 cents) was baling hay for the day on my god father's farm.

I have some great memories of working and playing on the farm, and I still love the smell of “fresh country air”, when the manure spreader hits the field in springtime!

40 posted on 03/17/2009 7:30:10 PM PDT by airborne (Obama is finishing what Osama started! The destruction of the American economy!!!)
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To: airborne

“...when the manure spreader hits the field in springtime!”

Reminds me of the old wooden mule drawn manure spreader we used. Even though it was at least fifty years old we pulled it out of the shed when fertixzler prices shot up and prices fell during the seventies.(Thanks alot, Carter) Only we hitched it to the Massey Ferguson tractor and even in first gear and low, it literally shot the sh%t everywhere. We had to use a broom to sweep it off Pop’s back, the tractor, everything. He had to strip off before Mom would allow him anywhere near the house. Funny now but he didn’t see the humor in it then. We had a reduction gear placed on it and never had that problem again.


41 posted on 03/18/2009 9:56:16 AM PDT by RedMonqey
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Pig manure stinks beyone aything immaginable! Super Bad!

We used to raise a few pigs, mostly for our own consumption(about thirty animals all together( piglets,sows and a few boors of varying ages) They were spread out in a "free range" situation so their smell didn't overwhelm you unless you were on top of a fresh pile. But a neighbor a few miles down the back road in a hollow had a (relatively)small lot where he raised two-three hundred hogs, feed them exclusively on grain(no rooting)Basically they sh%t where they ate. And the smell was terrible. Summers were unbearable. It literally took your breathe away. Luckily, with the help of the woods and the wind(We were upwind most of the time) it didn't hit us unless the wind changed from it's usual pattern. Never could see how the man could stand living butt up to the lot. Guess you can get used to anything.
42 posted on 03/18/2009 10:14:47 AM PDT by RedMonqey
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Congress smells like a mixture of donkey, elephant, rino, dino and ostrich manure!

It’s bad enough to gag a maggot!


43 posted on 03/18/2009 11:35:09 AM PDT by SwinneySwitch (ObommaNaton - beyond your expectations)
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