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GM Says Bankruptcy Would Mean Liquidation (More scare tactics from a failed business)
AP ^ | 3/17/09

Posted on 03/18/2009 8:09:49 AM PDT by bestintxas

General Motors Chief Executive Rick Wagoner says the automaker would end up being liquidated if it enters Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

Wagoner says restructuring out of court would accomplish 99 percent of what could be achieved in bankruptcy. But he says it wouldn't have the risk of scaring away customers or the huge expense of Chapter 11.

Wagoner made the statements Tuesday at a breakfast in Washington, D.C., sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor.

General Motors Corp. has received $13.4 billion in federal loans and is seeking another $16.6 billion. The company faces a March 31 deadline to finish its viability plan and show the government it's worthy of the money.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: automakers; bailouts; blackmail; extortion; failure; generalmotors; gm; laborunions; uaw
It's obvious that the automakers wish to just keep on kissing the UAW's A__ and feed from the taxpayers' trough.
1 posted on 03/18/2009 8:09:49 AM PDT by bestintxas
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To: bestintxas

The dirty little secret (or not-so-secret) is that GM is already bankrupt. Filing Chapter 11 merely will protect the company from its creditors while it reorganizes.


2 posted on 03/18/2009 8:11:18 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: bestintxas

Does that mean I’d have to suck my Silverado up off my driveway with a wet-dry vac?


3 posted on 03/18/2009 8:12:30 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: bestintxas
Well
I cut GM some slack here -—
GM NEEDS to put some real fear into the unions, the Labor has been one of GM’s biggest problems.
Also, our government has tried to micro manage the auto business, with green legislation and the like, for so long, it had to hurt the business, eventually.
Also, our energy price fluctuations have hurt GM a great deal, and these fluctuations were caused by our government not allowing us to “drill here, drill now!”.
4 posted on 03/18/2009 8:12:35 AM PDT by Kansas58
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To: bestintxas

Then it’s time to liquidate, eh? I’m sure there are many other companies that can make better use of the factories, machinery, and personnel than GM.


5 posted on 03/18/2009 8:13:47 AM PDT by CitizenUSA
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To: bestintxas

>> it wouldn’t have the risk of scaring away customers

Yeah, they rely on their PRODUCTS for that task.


6 posted on 03/18/2009 8:14:21 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Party? I don't have one anymore.)
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To: bestintxas

I hope they get a chance to crank out a few of the new Camaro models before they go under...


7 posted on 03/18/2009 8:14:21 AM PDT by jessduntno ( http://patriotpost.us/images/broadcasts/humor/images/debt-star.jpg)
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To: bestintxas

Yeah ok.

I might have read somewhere that other car companies still have cars to sell.


8 posted on 03/18/2009 8:15:12 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: bestintxas

Thanks GM, we already know what bankruptcy means. So what?


9 posted on 03/18/2009 8:15:19 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: jessduntno

I hope they get a chance to crank out a few of the new Camaro models before they go under...give me that body and I’ll trust the aftermarket and local machine shops for parts...


10 posted on 03/18/2009 8:15:20 AM PDT by jessduntno ( http://patriotpost.us/images/broadcasts/humor/images/debt-star.jpg)
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To: bestintxas

That may be the price for running a business poorly.

If not now, it’s only a matter of time unless GM becomes cost-competitive.


11 posted on 03/18/2009 8:17:09 AM PDT by bigbob
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To: Kansas58

I don’t buy the premise that that GM is being all that hurt by govenment interference.

The big mistake for the UAW: The howls during the 80’s by the Unions to limit foreign imports caused foreign companies to locate manufacturing plants here in the US.

It is now blatantly obvious to all that the reason why GM is non-competitive is due to Unions, because the US plants foreign-owned and run by American workers are doing fine, and they are subject to the same government influence.


12 posted on 03/18/2009 8:18:52 AM PDT by bestintxas (It's great in Texas)
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To: bestintxas

Wagoner is an idiot. GM’s management team is a bigger problem than the UAW ever was.

Ford managed to cut a deal that puts them on par with foreign manufacturers, (those that manufacture here). Ford didn’t need to be bailed out.

Ford can do it, and GM can’t, so it’s the UAW’s fault, right?


13 posted on 03/18/2009 8:19:14 AM PDT by brownsfan (Kool aid comes in two new flavors: Hope and Change.)
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To: sitetest

Perhaps liquidation is what should happen. There will probably still be “Chevrolets”, but they might end up being manufactured in China or Indonesia. There might even be “Saturns” and “Cadillacs”, but they could end up being manufactured in Germany or England. “Buicks” are already being manufactured in China, no change there.

Pontiac disappears, and GMC/Chevrolet trucks get farmed out to somebody like BMW or Volkswagen.

Upshot, UAW is left out in the cold, with nobody to administer their pensionors. Solution, unionize the Federal, state and local government employees, get those numbers of dues-paying members recruited up to strength.


14 posted on 03/18/2009 8:21:44 AM PDT by alloysteel (Obama was lying, your rights are dying)
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To: jiggyboy
I might have read somewhere that other car companies still have cars to sell.

No one makes Dussenburgs or Nash Ramblers these days, but some one else must be making autos.

I was stuck in a line of traffic a half mile long just 2 hours ago.

15 posted on 03/18/2009 8:22:11 AM PDT by TYVets
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To: bestintxas
GM Says Bankruptcy Would Mean Liquidation

And...?
Just shut up and take it.
Not to sound coldhearted,but....Sorry about all those good folks that will be out of a job,but it's no one's fault but GM's and the union's.It's a shame so many people's jobs will be sacrificed.
16 posted on 03/18/2009 8:26:47 AM PDT by gimme1ibertee ("No pale pastels,but bold colors".....Ronnie,we sure do miss you,sir!)
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To: bestintxas

Let’s see, they sell off he individual car divisions, like Saturn, to someone else and sell off the plants no one wants.

Then the new owners build a different or modified car for sale. We still have cars to purchase for transportation.

Outside of a landmark business going under, what is the down side?


17 posted on 03/18/2009 8:28:26 AM PDT by BillT (New Executive Order to abolish the WS Constitution to be signed to save the US Constitution)
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To: bestintxas

The foreign owned plants are doing better.
They are not “doing fine”.

Also, Detroit was always the leader in larger vehicles, which our government does not like.


18 posted on 03/18/2009 8:29:58 AM PDT by Kansas58
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To: CitizenUSA

“Then it’s time to liquidate, eh? I’m sure there are many other companies that can make better use of the factories, machinery, and personnel than GM.”

Yeah, but only if it is broken down and sold to companies across the country, primarily in right to work states.

Who in their right mind would open a factory there knowing that it will have to be unionized?


19 posted on 03/18/2009 8:31:39 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (The most corrupt administration in history. And it is only 8 weeks old.)
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To: gimme1ibertee

It’s a shame so many people’s jobs will be sacrificed.

Always a shame with a failed business.

Hitching a ride to a business that has reimbursement unsupportingly high is doomed for early retirement.

People should base career decisions on rationalizing a growth business vs a shrinking one (don’t be a typewriter manufacturer or buggy-whip salesman).


20 posted on 03/18/2009 8:33:54 AM PDT by bestintxas (It's great in Texas)
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To: Kansas58

The foreign owned plants are doing better.
They are not “doing fine”.

Also, Detroit was always the leader in larger vehicles, which our government does not like.

“Doing fine” is relative in that they are not bleeding profusely like Detroit.

Detroit decided to keep the business model to make and concentrate on large cars unlike its competitors who balanced the issue.


21 posted on 03/18/2009 8:37:47 AM PDT by bestintxas (It's great in Texas)
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To: bestintxas

I hope the Corvette Club gets together and buys the Bowling Green Plant.

I will buy stock in that.


22 posted on 03/18/2009 8:39:00 AM PDT by razorback-bert (Will trade sex for ammo)
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To: bestintxas
Am I supposed to feel bad for GM. All three of the auto industry are a@@es for allowing the Union to corrupt their businesses. These particular unions have outlived their usefulness. In their greed forced overpricing of their cars in a competitive world market. Nobody to blame but themselves and I love my one year old KIA.
23 posted on 03/18/2009 8:42:33 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: bestintxas

Who cares if America loses another industry. Pay no attention to Main Street voters. Only Wall Street bailouts with bonuses please, we’re Republicans.


24 posted on 03/18/2009 8:43:01 AM PDT by ex-snook ("But above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: bestintxas

“US plants foreign-owned and run by American workers are doing fine”

You gotta be kidding me! Mitsubishi isn’t even running any production. NUMMI laid off a whole shift. Toyota production is way down. These companies are NOT doing fine!


25 posted on 03/18/2009 8:43:25 AM PDT by ambeeeant
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To: brownsfan
Additionally, Ford seems willing to let some of its spin-off companies go under. Visteon is a Ford owned subsidiary, and I don't think they'll make it through the next three months without declaring and reorganizing. It's about time, too--my bro is a UAW/Visteon worker. His shop has not yet adopted the renegotiated contract that other Ford employees have.

Reorganization will take care of that, without gubmint intervention.

26 posted on 03/18/2009 8:58:06 AM PDT by grellis (I am Jill's overwhelming sense of disgust.)
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To: Springman; sergeantdave; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; ...

If you would like to be added or dropped from the Michigan ping list, please freepmail me.


27 posted on 03/18/2009 9:00:10 AM PDT by grellis (I am Jill's overwhelming sense of disgust.)
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To: bestintxas

Then go liquidate. File bankruptcy. Whatever. Just leave me alone. I don’t want to hear the whining anymore. I didn’t get you into the mess you are in.


28 posted on 03/18/2009 10:20:39 AM PDT by 3catsanadog (I plan to give the new President the same respect and dignity the other side gave Bush.)
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To: bestintxas
I'd say a lot of these blue-collar employees thought this business would go on forever...
after all,we'll always need cars,right?

Nowadays the only jobs that are "for sure" are the tax man,the undertaker and the liquor store clerk.
29 posted on 03/18/2009 12:01:49 PM PDT by gimme1ibertee ("No pale pastels,but bold colors".....Ronnie,we sure do miss you,sir!)
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To: gimme1ibertee

I’d add the Gun&Ammo salesman but it may be turned into a regulator job if the 2nd Amendment appears inconvenient to the libs and they are successful in interpreting “right shall not be infringed” to add “after acceptable government controls”.

As far as cars, Obama will try his best to force Americans into the big cities like the one he grew up in, by taxation and other financial incentives. One reason he wishes to do this is to control people and energy demand by forcing them into public transportation. Virtually impossible to do this in the vast swath of America but very possible if he can get large numbers of Americans back into the cities.

Result of using public transportation = fewer cars.


30 posted on 03/18/2009 1:23:30 PM PDT by bestintxas (It's great in Texas)
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...
General Motors Chief Executive Rick Wagoner says... restructuring out of court would accomplish 99 percent of what could be achieved in bankruptcy. But he says it wouldn't have the risk of scaring away customers or the huge expense of Chapter 11.
"restructuring out of court" would never be allowed by the gubmint. OTOH, Obama can't have any independent political entities of any size power or consequence running around, and is therefore no friend to unions.
31 posted on 03/18/2009 4:31:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: grellis

Whoops! And thanks grellis.


32 posted on 03/18/2009 4:33:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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General Motors Checkmates Obama In Two Moves
(Another Huge Bailout Coming)
Time | 3/16/2009 | Douglas McIntyre
Posted on 03/18/2009 1:20:49 PM PDT by mojito
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2209378/posts


33 posted on 03/18/2009 4:33:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: bestintxas
"because the US plants foreign-owned and run by American workers are doing fine..."

No, they're not. All the Japanese companies are bleeding from low sales. They're having the same problem that Ford is: they built loads of small cars cuz the price of gas was high, and now that gas is cheap, nobody wants to buy those little death-traps.

34 posted on 03/18/2009 4:40:31 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: brownsfan
"Ford managed to cut a deal that puts them on par with foreign manufacturers, (those that manufacture here). Ford didn’t need to be bailed out."

Ford and the foreign cos are hurting too, and now Ford is calling for a gas tax to force people to buy their tiny death-traps.

35 posted on 03/18/2009 4:43:15 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor
"Ford and the foreign cos are hurting too, and now Ford is calling for a gas tax to force people to buy their tiny death-traps."




Yep, you're a pretty keen observer. I give your comment the consideration it deserves.

36 posted on 03/19/2009 6:09:16 AM PDT by brownsfan (Kool aid comes in two new flavors: Hope and Change.)
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To: brownsfan

You are simply inobservant, and uninformed.

The vehicles that you pictured are not the problem; its their huge inventory of unsold, and unsaleable small vehicles that caused For to call for a $2 gas tax to force buyers to accept useless small deathtraps.


37 posted on 03/19/2009 9:06:40 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor

“You are simply inobservant, and uninformed.”

Are you really that stupid that you want to name call when you’re in the wrong? The only reason that Ford might call for a gas tax is that they are selling an SUV hybrid, and their fuel economy bests GM. But I’d like to see documentation before I accept your claim. You have damaged crediblity.

As for Ford having a lineup of small deathtraps?

Cars:
Fiesta - An econobox piece of crap. The kind you refer to, but not exactly the star of Ford’s product line.
Focus - A small car that sells well.
Mustang - A sports car, NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Fusion - Midsize, it’s actually a Mazda 6. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Taurus - Full size car. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.

Crossover:
Flex - A large station wagon type car. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Edge - Even larger, a bit more suv-like. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Taurus X - Classic station wagon. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.

SUV:
Escape - Mazada Tribute, smaller SUV. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Escape Hybrid - Not small, but it is an economy car.
Expolorer - Standard SUV. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Expedition - Large SUV. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Sport Trac - Combo truck/car. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.

Trucks:
Ranger - Small truck, economy truck.
E Series - Large van. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
F 150 - Large truck. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Super Duty - Xlarge truck. NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.
Commercial truck - Definately NOT AN ECONOMY CAR.

So, according to Ford, they offer 18 models. Of those 18, 4 could be considered economy cars. Of the four, only 2 are even close to the “deathtrap” category you rail about.

So, are you maintaining that Ford concentrated on making the Focus and Fiesta, and the rest of their lineup was just for show?


38 posted on 03/19/2009 9:56:23 AM PDT by brownsfan (Kool aid comes in two new flavors: Hope and Change.)
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To: brownsfan
First, I didn't "name call," I pointed out that you are simply ignorant of the readily available facts.

Nobody's hybrid cars are selling. - Ford's hybrid has cost them a ton, but the cars that people want, and are buying, are not small. All manufacturers have a large stock of unsellable small cars that no one in their right mind would buy.

39 posted on 03/19/2009 10:03:18 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: brownsfan

If you think that Ford is well positioned, then go buy some stock.


40 posted on 03/19/2009 10:06:26 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor

“No, they’re not. All the Japanese companies are bleeding from low sales. They’re having the same problem that Ford is: they built loads of small cars cuz the price of gas was high, and now that gas is cheap, nobody wants to buy those little death-traps.”

Really?

How much in bailout money did the foreign auto makers receive? Perhaps I missed it.


41 posted on 03/19/2009 10:46:04 AM PDT by bestintxas (It's great in Texas)
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To: bestintxas

Liquidation.

Ok that means somebody else will by the brands and the names and if the want continue operations.

IOW Cadilac will be built by ford or crysler or somebody else.


42 posted on 03/19/2009 10:49:16 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: editor-surveyor

“I pointed out that you are simply ignorant of the readily available facts.”

Just because you say something is a fact doesn’t make it so. You are ignorant of supporting an arguement properly.

Clearly Ford doesn’t have a large inventory of small “unsaleable” cars. By the way, because you don’t want something, it doesn’t make it unsalable. Yes, that’s correct, it’s unsalable, not “unsellable”.

Ford is postioned well. My wife owns a 2008 Escape, a fine car for the price, and I do own stock in Ford.

Given your penchant for ignoring facts I present, and contenting your statements are facts because you say so, I can’t see continuing this.

I just want to make sure other readers know Ford isn’t mismanaged, unlike GM.


43 posted on 03/19/2009 10:53:30 AM PDT by brownsfan (Kool aid comes in two new flavors: Hope and Change.)
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To: editor-surveyor
The vehicles that you pictured are not the problem; its their huge inventory of unsold, and unsaleable small vehicles that caused For to call for a $2 gas tax to force buyers to accept useless small deathtraps.

Which is wrong. Ford hasn't really started to produce small cars in the US, in 2008 they were talking about a 2010+ timeframe for the Fiesta etc.. GM was thinking about thinking about bringing some small Daewoos to the US under the Chevrolet brand.

Also: There's always a market for "cheap and cheerful" small cars (think college demographic), but it's a hard business: razor-thin margins with the constant pressure to have "desirable" cars (a big truck sells because it is big and macho, a small car has to have an appealing design).

American manufacturers abandoned that market segement, because there was a quick buck to be made elsewhere. Even I agree that Renault and Fiat make mostly shitty cars, but I still have to say kudos to being able to turn a profit (well, not right now, but then nobody is) in such a competitive market segment, something even the germans with their superior technology struggle with.
44 posted on 03/19/2009 12:21:08 PM PDT by wolf78 (Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender)
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To: brownsfan

You’re clearly ruled by your emotions.

I also prefer Ford over GM, but that doesn’t change the facts WRT this issue. We just rid ourselves of a flimsy, underpowered Escape, so our opinions differ on that vehicle, but the Escape isn’t the source of the troubles; its the foolish retooling for small cars that Ford did that is causing them to do bizzare things like call for outrageous taxation of their product.


45 posted on 03/19/2009 3:06:23 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: wolf78

Large vehicles sell because they are the ones that get the job done. Small vehicles sell only when destructive market forces cause fuel prices to climb rapidly. When those prices fall back to normal those less than functional cars hit the used car market like lemming bodies hitting the bottom of the bluff.


46 posted on 03/19/2009 3:12:22 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor
Large vehicles sell because they are the ones that get the job done.

The question is: what job? If you're a small businessman in Montana, sure. If need a ride for the commute from San Francisco to your programming job in Silicon Valley, any car will do, i.e. a Toyota Yaris is just fine.

Small vehicles sell only when destructive market forces cause fuel prices to climb rapidly.

Wrong. Economic allocation of resources postulates that you buy exactly as much car as you need, because that gives you the most bang for the buck. Which is also the essence of capitalism: choice. See example above. The idea that one size has to fit all and that this size is hinged on the idea of a rural utopia is blatantly socialist. The underlying ideology was called "workers' and peasants' state".

When those prices fall back to normal those less than functional cars hit the used car market like lemming bodies hitting the bottom of the bluff.

The idea of "normal" fuel prices is socialist as well. Free markets only know supply and demand.

Bottom line: Market economies improve products by offering alternatives. If you like certain alternatives better than others, that's fine. Nobody forces you to buy an Aveo. But your obsession with other peoples' choices is disturbing.
47 posted on 03/19/2009 5:10:49 PM PDT by wolf78 (Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender)
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To: bestintxas
GM Says Bankruptcy Would Mean Liquidation

And the most appropriate response is, "So what?". Demand for vehicles would not change. Sales for competing car-makers climbs, and they hire more employees to keep up with demand. Wise investors are rewarded. Good management is rewarded. Darwinist capitalism continues to use the crucible of free markets to ensure that only efficient leadership remains. (Sadly, our government wants to ensure than poor leadership is left in place... for no apparent reason, other than the weakening of the economy.)

48 posted on 03/19/2009 5:14:29 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: wolf78

You sound like a mind control psycho!


49 posted on 03/19/2009 5:24:06 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor

more intelligence on how robust the domestic manufacturers are. where are the handouts to foreign companies??

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2211265/posts


50 posted on 03/21/2009 6:14:15 AM PDT by bestintxas (It's great in Texas)
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