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Unionize or Die
The Wall Street Journal ^ | 03-19-09 | WSJ Editorial Staff

Posted on 03/19/2009 8:39:55 PM PDT by GOP_Lady

The Employee Free Choice Act, a bill that would allow unions to organize worksites without secret-ballot elections, was introduced in Congress last week. And this week, we saw how far Big Labor will go to pass it.

On Tuesday the Service Employees International Union posted a YouTube video about the horrific death of a Tulsa, Oklahoma, man who fell into an industrial-sized clothes dryer while clearing a jam of wet laundry. The accident occurred at a plant operated by Cintas Corp., a large uniform supplier. The implication is that the accident never would have occurred if the worksite had been unionized, and that opponents of the union bill have blood on their hands.

The video's target is Oklahoma Rep. Dan Boren, a Democrat who recently declared that he'll vote against labor's top priority. The video concludes by calling for Mr. Boren by name to "stop risking workers' lives" and support the bill. The political ad also serves as a warning to other Democrats in Congress -- including Mark Pryor and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas; Ben Nelson of Nebraska; Michael Bennet of Colorado; and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana -- who haven't declared how they'll vote. The message is that if they don't sign on the SEIU line, they'll get roughed up, and perhaps face a primary challenge next election.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bho44; cardcheck; efca; secretballot; union; unions
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An exceptionally well written article.
1 posted on 03/19/2009 8:39:55 PM PDT by GOP_Lady
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To: GOP_Lady

And so the end of what is barely left of a free America begins...

I think Taps ought to be played every day from here on out...pray for a turnaround before our way of live is completely gone.


2 posted on 03/19/2009 8:46:55 PM PDT by phatus maximus ( John 6:29. Learn it, love it, live it.)
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To: GOP_Lady

bump for later


3 posted on 03/19/2009 8:47:34 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: phatus maximus

I’m sure the Supreme Court will have something to say about all this. And I’m sure it will make it that far.


4 posted on 03/19/2009 8:51:41 PM PDT by doc1019 (and a child shall lead them)
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To: doc1019

Our Progressive Republican Chief Justice Taft started all of this.


5 posted on 03/19/2009 9:13:59 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: higgmeister

Hopefully our current Chief Justice, John Roberts will make amends.


6 posted on 03/19/2009 9:18:23 PM PDT by doc1019 (and a child shall lead them)
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To: GOP_Lady

So you don’t think a Union would make the plant any safer for workers?


7 posted on 03/19/2009 9:39:54 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger
The Employee Free Choice Act, a bill that would allow unions to organize worksites without secret-ballot elections...

In other words, vote your mind - but everyone is going to KNOW how you voted. Your vote is no longer secret, your vote is now PUBLIC. So, vote how ever you want - just don't expect to be able to keep your opinion quiet, or that there won't be any reprecussions for voting against the 'party line'.

If the union tells you to vote one way, and you think it's in your best interests to vote the other way, don't be surprised to see your car trashed, your house burned down, your family threatened or your life endangered. They now have the right to KNOW who voted, and which way they voted.

Is there any legitimate reason to know how someone voted?

8 posted on 03/19/2009 10:04:01 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this ‘feels’ so right?)
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To: papertyger
So you don’t think a Union would make the plant any safer for workers?

At what cost to the company? There's already OSHA and dozens of other federal and state laws ensuring a safe workplace.

9 posted on 03/19/2009 10:14:13 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist ("President Obama, your agenda is not new, it's not change, and it's not hope" - Rush Limbaugh 02/28)
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To: GOP_Lady

The Democrats may try to pass this by voice vote to cover themselves.


10 posted on 03/20/2009 12:24:49 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Hodar
If the union tells you to vote one way, and you think it's in your best interests to vote the other way, don't be surprised to see your car trashed, your house burned down, your family threatened or your life endangered.

You caught the part about this guy DYING didn't you?

11 posted on 03/20/2009 4:42:14 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
At what cost to the company? There's already OSHA and dozens of other federal and state laws ensuring a safe workplace.

Really? So this guy died in an industrial dryer that was properly locked out and in a zero energy state, according to OSHA regs?

That's the point of getting a Union. It's cheaper for the company to ignore the regs when OSHA isn't there to cite them.

Notice how they are still so tight lipped about the circumstances surrounding the accident? That ain't so they can make things safer for the rest of their workforce.

12 posted on 03/20/2009 4:47:01 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: Hodar
Is there any legitimate reason to know how someone voted?

The point isn't to find out how people voted. That's just the only talking point management friendly forces can think of.

The point is not to pin everything on an election the company controls. Didn't you know the so-called "card check" system has ALWAYS been available to management, and has been used by companies like ATT? They don't like it because it keeps the question open instead of allowing them to go back to cheating once they've threatened, cajoled, and fired all the employees willing to stick their neck out to improve conditions and force the company to abide by federal regulations.

These employers are willing to piss away our sovereignty for cheap illegal immigrant workers; you think they blanche at eliminating anyone threatening their margins when abiding by safety regs is so expensive?

13 posted on 03/20/2009 4:57:47 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger
So you don’t think a Union would make the plant any safer for workers?

In a word, NO!!!

I once worked in an aluminum mill that was a union shop, saw a guy fall into a vat of molten aluminum.

I guess what I am saying is that accidents happen in union shops as well as non union shops.

14 posted on 03/20/2009 6:56:24 AM PDT by dearolddad
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To: dearolddad
In a word, NO!!!...I guess what I am saying is that accidents happen in union shops as well as non union shops.

I have no reply to someone who can deny the manifestly obvious by citing an anecdote.

15 posted on 03/20/2009 8:05:00 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger

“You caught the part about this guy DYING didn’t you?”

How exactly will the union prevent anyone from work place death? Please explain.


16 posted on 03/20/2009 8:10:06 AM PDT by JenB987
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To: JenB987
How exactly will the union prevent anyone from work place death? Please explain.

One of the Union's primary functions is to provide an entity "in house" to hold the company accountable to labor and safety laws without fear of retribution from management.

Where there is a Union, it is impossible to make compliance problems "go away" by firing individuals.

17 posted on 03/20/2009 8:28:49 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger
The point isn't to find out how people voted.

If there is no point to know how an individual voted, then why was the OPEN VOTE portion critical? I can see no reason, absolutely no reason whatsoever, to know how an individual voted unless the intent is to threaten, intimadate, maim or kill someone who disagrees with a particular point of view.

18 posted on 03/20/2009 7:28:07 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: papertyger

The primary function of a union is to collect union dues and contribute to democratic campaigns.


19 posted on 03/20/2009 7:34:27 PM PDT by bfree (Obamie the Commie-- FBO)
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To: papertyger

That’s a false dichotomy. It’s not a choice between safety or no labor union. Labor unions are not the only reason employers work to improve safety in the workplace. If unions were 100% responsible for workplace safety, then why aren’t workers dying off in droves in the Right to Work states


20 posted on 03/20/2009 7:35:55 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Pretending the Admin Moderator doesn't exist will result in suspension.)
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To: papertyger
Where there is a Union, it is impossible to make compliance problems "go away" by firing individuals.

You have got to be kidding! Unions are a slim step above organized crime! And you actually think a union steward would not submit a name to the boss to make that name go away in the monthly RIF! Unions are a collective brotherhood running a vast protection racket on the theory that the company pays protection or the Union puts the company out of business. If the Mafia tries to do that they are prosecuted, but when a Union thug with a collective bargaining card does that he has your full support!?

Perhaps way back in 1885, Sam Gompers' efforts did a modicum of good in the face of the involuntary servitude brought by salaries paid in scrip at Company stores instead of in real Greenbacks, or in the face of dangerous workrooms in dark and dirty factories. Yet the reality was in the 19th century virtually everyone had to toil hard to survive in a time of no modern conveniences such as refrigeration or mechanization. The Garment Workers Union did not prevent 141 workers from dying in the Triangle Shirtwaist Company Factory Fire in 1911. Even in Gompers' time the Trade Unionism was anti-capitalist and still is now.

The most pitiful myth is that the Union protects workers from the company. When a union takes control of a workforce, in less time than it takes to say "Union card-check bill", the next question should be, WHO WILL PROTECT THE WORKERS FROM THE UNION?! There are a myriad of instances of loyal individual union workers finding themselves railroaded as scapegoats by their union leader onto the unemployment lines or even blackballed for not fitting into the personality cult of the Shop steward. The Union bosses are much more to be feared than any company official.

21 posted on 03/20/2009 9:38:03 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: Hodar
I can see no reason, absolutely no reason whatsoever, to know how an individual voted unless the intent is to threaten, intimadate, maim or kill someone who disagrees with a particular point of view

What part of company controlled elections did your ability to "see" cut out on?

22 posted on 03/22/2009 3:57:11 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: Cyber Liberty

Spare me the “outhouse litigation.” It does not take a wizard to figure out a business that has to negotiate with its labor force like any of its other “suppliers” will be more circumspect in its treatment of that supplier.


23 posted on 03/22/2009 4:02:13 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: higgmeister
The most pitiful myth is that the Union protects workers from the company.

It's pretty hard to convince someone an idea is a "myth" when they've seen it with their own eyes.

That make the rest of your post nothing but a screed.

24 posted on 03/22/2009 4:08:37 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger

I am sorry, but you are simply wrong, and stuck in a 1930’s attitude about labor/management.

And stick it up your outhouse, I’ve seen you in action in this thread, and I’m done with you already.


25 posted on 03/22/2009 11:53:35 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Pretending the Admin Moderator doesn't exist will result in suspension.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Declare victory and run away from the debate...why am I not surprised?


26 posted on 03/22/2009 11:59:07 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger

Just another union goof trying to defend the indefensible.

America can thank the UAW for driving GM, Ford and Chrysler almost out of business. Screw you and your union buddies.


27 posted on 03/22/2009 5:24:13 PM PDT by bfree (Obamie the Commie-- FBO)
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To: bfree
I've always wondered why all these pro union types claim they need special legislation for unions to survive?

If Unions were so damn good why do their numbers shrink yearly in the private sector?

28 posted on 03/22/2009 5:28:40 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (will work for bailout bonus.... Twitter: maddawggmorgan)
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To: papertyger

Make unions illegal!!!


29 posted on 03/22/2009 5:28:50 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: Mad Dawgg

The ONLY growth in unions has been in the public sector, look how well that’s worked out. Look at the huge deficits local, state and federal governments have racked up with close to 70% of each budget going for “personnel” costs. How’s your local/state working out? If you are in the north I know the answer- deficits with huge pension obligations.


30 posted on 03/22/2009 6:55:25 PM PDT by bfree (Obamie the Commie-- FBO)
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To: bfree

Gee, I’m not hearing any comment about why this guy got killed working on an industrial dryer that wasn’t locked out...and people wonder why unions have the reputation of negotiating with a lead pipe.


31 posted on 03/23/2009 12:42:18 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: Mad Dawgg
I've always wondered why all these pro union types claim they need special legislation for unions to survive?

They don't. You are confusing what little bit you know about the subject for what can be known.

If Unions were so damn good why do their numbers shrink yearly in the private sector?

Because it's cheaper to ship the jobs overseas than abide by the rules of this country.

32 posted on 03/23/2009 12:51:57 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: dalereed
Make unions illegal!!!

Good Luck.

33 posted on 03/23/2009 12:52:51 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger
"They don't. You are confusing what little bit you know about the subject for what can be known."

I see so Card check is just a whim then?

Or are you coming out against card check?

34 posted on 03/23/2009 6:29:32 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (will work for bailout bonus.... Twitter: maddawggmorgan)
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To: doc1019
I’m sure the Supreme Court will have something to say about all this.

Like how they struck down Campaign Finance Reform? Oh, that's right, they upheld it. Don't pin your hopes on the Supremes.

35 posted on 03/23/2009 6:32:00 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money -- Thatcher)
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To: papertyger

You caught the part about the owner’s baby getting new teeth, didn’t you?

Has about as much to do with the two sentences you just tried to associate.

IE, a non-sequitur.


36 posted on 03/23/2009 6:34:57 AM PDT by MrB (irreconcilable: One of two or more conflicting ideas or beliefs that cannot be brought into harmony.)
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To: papertyger
Government conspiring with powerful businesses to gain control over a society is Facist.
Government conspiring with powerful unions to gain control over a society is Communist.
37 posted on 03/23/2009 6:56:50 AM PDT by cartoonistx
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To: papertyger
Honest question. Do you have stats, within the last 10 years, that prove that Union shops are safer than non union shops?

The reason I ask is that my husband is a safety director at the non union plant that he works at, and he does safety checks (watching employees with a checklist) to determine that the safety precautions are both in place, and being utilized.

One of the most expensive components of any factories budget is Workmans Comp insurance, and claims. In order to minimize those costs the big nasty corporations MUST maintain their safety standards.

My dad was the union president at his plant for years, and they had the same exact W/C claims as my husbands plant does!

38 posted on 03/23/2009 7:06:10 AM PDT by codercpc
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To: Mad Dawgg
I see so Card check is just a whim then?

Card check has always been an option. Companies generally avoid it because it takes more effort to manipulate.

This legislation would take the choice of format away from management and give it to the workers.

39 posted on 03/23/2009 7:31:46 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger; Elle Bee

bump


40 posted on 03/23/2009 7:33:14 AM PDT by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
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To: papertyger
"This legislation would take the choice of format away from management and give it to the workers."

So then unions do need special legislation to survive, or are you against card check?

41 posted on 03/23/2009 7:33:35 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (will work for bailout bonus.... Twitter: maddawggmorgan)
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To: papertyger

Unions do nothing useful. Unions are not tolerated by Americans and must coerce the population by mafia-like intimidation to exist.

If they win, they will die.


42 posted on 03/23/2009 7:37:54 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . John Galt hell !...... where is Francisco d’Anconia)
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To: MrB
Has about as much to do with the two sentences you just tried to associate. IE, a non-sequitur.

Uhm... threats of physical violence... violent death by industrial accident.

Are you sure you know what "non-sequitur" means?

43 posted on 03/23/2009 7:38:05 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger

Sorry (sincerely), must have missed the part where he was being threatened.

Yeah, I can see a goonion thug making an example out of someone who wouldn’t “sign the card”.


44 posted on 03/23/2009 7:50:44 AM PDT by MrB (irreconcilable: One of two or more conflicting ideas or beliefs that cannot be brought into harmony.)
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To: cartoonistx

And workers forming a collective bargaining unit is a union... big deal.


45 posted on 03/23/2009 7:59:58 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: codercpc
One of the most expensive components of any factories budget is Workmans Comp insurance, and claims. In order to minimize those costs the big nasty corporations MUST maintain their safety standards.

So how do you explain this Cintas case?

46 posted on 03/23/2009 8:53:17 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: Mad Dawgg
So then unions do need special legislation to survive, or are you against card check?

How is this an either/or proposition?

47 posted on 03/23/2009 8:59:52 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger

Unions are anti-American and should be outlawed.


48 posted on 03/23/2009 9:02:42 AM PDT by Travis T. OJustice (Want to make a conservative angry? Lie to him. Want to make a liberal angry? Tell him the truth)
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To: papertyger
So how do you explain this Cintas case?

Accident.

49 posted on 03/23/2009 9:03:10 AM PDT by bfree (Obamie the Commie-- FBO)
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To: papertyger
So you don’t think a Union would make the plant any safer for workers?

Maybe.

Would a Union make the plant, or anywhere outside the plant more dangerous for workers that didn't vote in favor of a union?

50 posted on 03/23/2009 9:03:47 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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