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Testing the Law or Exercising His Rights? Local Man Walks into Restaurant with Holstered Gun
fox8.com ^ | March 19, 2009 | Elisa Amigo

Posted on 03/19/2009 11:24:04 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar

Police say he was "testing" the law, but one local gunowner says he was exercising his right to bear arms.

Tuesday evening, witnesses called police after a man with a gun in a holster was spotted walking in the Taco Bell restaurant on Day Drive in Parma.

Although the Taco Bell restaurant did not have any signs prohibiting weapons from being on the property, customers grew nervous.

The gunowner, Bill Carlisle, says as soon as he walked out of the restaurant, he was surrounded by police. "I came, I ate my dinner, I walked out and there the police were. The first thing they asked me was to stay where I was and put my hands on my head," says Carlisle.

Parma police captain Robert De Simone says Carlisle pulled out a tape recorder and then complied with the officers orders.

"An officer would have to be a moron to go up and talk to someone without saying put your hands away from the weapon," says De Simone. After running a background check, Carlisle's gun was returned. He was not arrested or charged.

Unless there a signs prohibiting weapons from being allowed on the property, police say according to Ohio's "open carry" law, any law-abiding citizen is allowed to carry a loaded weapon in public as long as it's not concealed.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; freepthispoll; shallnotbeinfringed
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1 posted on 03/19/2009 11:24:05 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: dynachrome

Freep poll at link.


2 posted on 03/19/2009 11:24:44 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Atlas Shrugged Mode: ON)
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To: Jet Jaguar
In Israel, people carry loaded rifles on public buses and no one bats an eye. Yes, loaded. Uzis and M-16s. So what is the big deal if a patron goes with a holstered gun into a Taco Bell restaurant?

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

3 posted on 03/19/2009 11:28:52 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

I did it all the time while living in New Mexico and Arizona.


4 posted on 03/19/2009 11:33:33 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Atlas Shrugged Mode: ON)
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To: goldstategop

This is why Texas needs to leave the union - we still have a tradition of open carry of long arms and we’d like to keep it, thank you very much...


5 posted on 03/19/2009 11:34:11 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Jet Jaguar

I would be more worried about what the food will do to me in 12 hours then what the guy with the gun could do.


6 posted on 03/19/2009 11:34:24 PM PDT by LukeL (Yasser Arafat: "I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize")
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To: goldstategop

I think the big deal is that the customer might have to shoot his burrrrrito before trying to eat it.


7 posted on 03/19/2009 11:38:15 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Spktyr
If they had a guy like that in Luby's in Kileen in 1994, all those people might be alive today. Someone could have shot the psychopath who sought a mass slaughter dead before he could do it. Unarmed sheeple are dangerous to us all.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

8 posted on 03/19/2009 11:38:28 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
Yup.


9 posted on 03/19/2009 11:46:48 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Jet Jaguar

Should you be allowed to carry a holstered gun in public?

Absolutely (4358 responses) 92.9%
Not Really Sure (56 responses) 1.2%
No Way (279 responses) 5.9%
4693 total responses

(Results not scientific)


10 posted on 03/19/2009 11:50:30 PM PDT by RebelTex
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To: LukeL
I would be more worried about what the food will do to me in 12 hours then what the guy with the gun could do.

Concerned about an accidental discharge?

11 posted on 03/19/2009 11:59:23 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Can't get enough of my snarking? http://twitter.com/slingsandarrows)
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To: Slings and Arrows
"Concerned about an accidental discharge?"

That would depend on the sanitation practices of the restaurant.

12 posted on 03/20/2009 12:12:00 AM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Jet Jaguar

He has the right to open carry, and restaurant managers have their property right to check weapons (keep them, until the customer leaves) or to make him to leave the weapon elsewhere.

...same with you all keeping strangers’ weapons off of your home places, if you wish. Imagine some strange goon wearing a pistol and knocking on your door, while you’re at work.

And I reiterate that have Second Amendment rights to open carry on public properties, friends’ properties (if they wish) and our own private properties. ...that from the experience of checking pistols in night clubs for owners of those night clubs (when I was young and dumb enough to work in that kind of place).


13 posted on 03/20/2009 12:17:06 AM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: Spktyr
"This is why Texas needs to leave the union - we still have a tradition of open carry of long arms and we’d like to keep it, thank you very much..."

I've been told that's true, except when you're in your car on Texas highways. ...was recently told by a Texan that on the highways in Texas, firearms have to be zipped up in firearms cases and unloaded.


14 posted on 03/20/2009 12:21:13 AM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: Jet Jaguar

BTW, I checked “absolutely,” even though Fox News presented the straw man in the story. :-)

Should you be allowed to carry a holstered gun in public?

*

Absolutely (4377 responses)

92.9%
*

Not Really Sure (56 responses)

1.2%
*

No Way (280 responses)

5.9%

4713 total responses

(Results not scientific)


15 posted on 03/20/2009 12:24:22 AM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: blackbart.223

Strangely enough, the four rules of gun safety apply here.


16 posted on 03/20/2009 12:33:06 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Can't get enough of my snarking? http://twitter.com/slingsandarrows)
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To: Jet Jaguar
"An officer would have to be a moron to go up and talk to someone without saying put your hands away from the weapon,"....

An officer IS a moron if he thinks someone who is about to shoot him is going to put his hands on top of his head, instead.

17 posted on 03/20/2009 12:38:10 AM PDT by Misterioso (Obama was elected not in spite of his color but because of it.)
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To: Slings and Arrows
"Strangely enough, the four rules of gun safety apply here."

I'm not sure you got the joke about "accidental discharge". Late in the night after eating in a crappy restaurant. You hope you make it to the toilet in time.

18 posted on 03/20/2009 12:40:43 AM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: goldstategop
In Israel, people carry loaded rifles on public buses and no one bats an eye. Yes, loaded. Uzis and M-16s. So what is the big deal if a patron goes with a holstered gun into a Taco Bell restaurant?

But, but, but... GUNS KILL PEOPLE! I mean, he could have been enjoying his tacos but who KNOWS what carnage his pistol may have wreaked unattended!

/sarc

19 posted on 03/20/2009 12:57:43 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: familyop

In NJ, the only way you can openly carry is if you posess a CCW, which we know citizens can rarely ever obtain. That is very ambiguous to say the least. That being said, if a LEO sees you openly carrying in NJ, be prepared to get a mouthful of asphalt, firearm confiscated, and a slew of charges filed against you. There is no provision for the 2nd amendment in the State Constitution, nor does there exist and amendment guaranteeing the RIGHT to hunt, fish, and bear arms. Not that anyone’s surprised.....


20 posted on 03/20/2009 12:59:14 AM PDT by Seamus Mc Gillicuddy (Great minds discuss ideas, medium minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

In Yemen men carry arms, too.


21 posted on 03/20/2009 1:03:09 AM PDT by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Off Hunting--- for the COLB)
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To: blackbart.223

Oh I think he did.

Know how it operates? Check.

Always keep it pointed in a safe direction? Check.

Always assume that it is loaded? Check.

Keep your finger away until you have acquired the target? Check.

(Wait - was this about guns, bad food or sex?!)


22 posted on 03/20/2009 1:10:17 AM PDT by 21twelve (The Obamas have all the class of the Clintons and none of the charm.)
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To: Jet Jaguar
An armed society is a polite society.

Robert Heinlien

23 posted on 03/20/2009 1:26:02 AM PDT by Ronin (Just when you're winning the rat race -- along come faster rats....)
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To: blackbart.223

I got it. Take the 4 gun safety rules, substitute *beep* for gun, and you’ll see what I mean.


24 posted on 03/20/2009 1:38:27 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Can't get enough of my snarking? http://twitter.com/slingsandarrows)
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To: Jet Jaguar
Beginning when I was 11 I rode my bike all over the county with a .22 rifle or my shotgun, no one even noticed, it was common for kids to hunt alone. Hardware stores would even sell you just 3 or 4 shotgun shells if you couldn't afford a whole box.

Liberals keep telling me how much better they have made things, but I've yet to notice anything worth trading my freedom for.

25 posted on 03/20/2009 2:56:00 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: familyop
I've been told that's true, except when you're in your car on Texas highways. ...was recently told by a Texan that on the highways in Texas, firearms have to be zipped up in firearms cases and unloaded.

Absolutely incorrect info! A handgun or a long gun may be carried openly or concealed in a vehicle by anyone (who can legally own such firearm) anywhere not otherwise marked (in accordance with a strict labeling Texas law) as a "Gun Free" zone such as a mall parking lot. Such weapons can even be carried onto school parking lots legally. Vehicles are covered by "Castle Doctrine" law and no permit is required for carry in a vehicle or any domicile even if it is a hotel room. Of course, with a concealed carry permit, a weapon may be carried virtually anywhere (including churches) other than a gov't facility or an establishment that derives MORE than 50% of its income from the sale of alcohol and then it must be plainly posted by the establishment in large red letters at every entrance to the establishment.

26 posted on 03/20/2009 3:08:08 AM PDT by TexasRedeye (Eschew obfuscation)
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To: All

http://www.thenewsstar.com/article/20090320/NEWS01/903200312/-1/NEWSFRONT2

Tech student wearing gun in Wal-Mart arrested


27 posted on 03/20/2009 3:10:31 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: familyop

“Imagine some strange goon wearing a pistol and knocking on your door, while you’re at work.”

Yep, the sign in my front yard, “no guns, please” is sure gonna keep the goons at bay while I am away from the house.


28 posted on 03/20/2009 3:15:25 AM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Jet Jaguar

I don’t know that it would cause much of a ruffle in a lot of Western States.

Unless . . . maybe . . . if there were a host of brain-dead liberal idiots in the Restaurant at the time . . .


29 posted on 03/20/2009 3:39:50 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Jet Jaguar

I would never eat at that Taco Bell again.


30 posted on 03/20/2009 3:52:54 AM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (liberalism is a mental disorder.)
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To: familyop
He has the right to open carry, and restaurant managers have their property right to check weapons (keep them, until the customer leaves) or to make him to leave the weapon elsewhere.

I as a customer have the right to leave that store, restaurant, etc without making a purchase never to return.

If I see a sign at says No Guns Allowed I leave. If I have time, I tell the manager about my displeasure and why I will not be back.

31 posted on 03/20/2009 3:55:40 AM PDT by TYVets
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Liberals keep telling me how much better they have made things, but I've yet to notice anything worth trading my freedom for.

When I was in high school in Georgia in the late 1970's it was common for guys to have their shotguns or deer rifles in their car or truck at school during deer season because a lot of guys would hunt before school. All the guys I went to school with carried pocket knives, too. Nowadays, try carrying a pocket knife to school and you'll wind up in jail. Carry a gun in your vehicle and they'll put you under the jail.....

32 posted on 03/20/2009 3:55:54 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem - Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Yeah, well, me too, in my misspent youth.

But I've been thinking about riding my motor scooter to the range with my AR slung over my back. My guess is I'd never make it to the range.

O'Bummer and Congress are trying to make this place into a 3rd world banana republic. We'd better get used to having some serious weaponry ready to hand.

33 posted on 03/20/2009 4:04:58 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Thermalseeker
"When I was in high school in Georgia in the late 1970's it was common for guys to have their shotguns or deer rifles in their car or truck at school during deer season because a lot of guys would hunt before school. All the guys I went to school with carried pocket knives, too. Nowadays, try carrying a pocket knife to school and you'll wind up in jail. Carry a gun in your vehicle and they'll put you under the jail....."

When I was a Freshman I took my .22 Rifle to school to tap a couple of holes in it for a scope. The Principle saw me with it as I was walking into shop class. He asked to see it so I handed it to him, he looked it over put it too his shoulder and sighted it out the window. Handed it back and asked what I was going to do with it in shop.

I told him about adding the scope and he smiled and handed me the weapon back and told me to make sure I could still use the iron sights while the scope was attached, then he left.

If I were a student today and did that the FBI would have been called in and I would be featured on CNN as a nut job gun lover who was going away to prison for life.

34 posted on 03/20/2009 4:06:48 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (will work for Bailout Bonus.... Twitter: maddawggmorgan)
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To: TexasRedeye
Absolutely incorrect info! A handgun or a long gun may be carried openly or concealed in a vehicle by anyone (who can legally own such firearm)...

Let's see, did the "Texas Castle Doctrine" (SB 378?) go into effect on 9/1/2007? Emphasis in bold is mine below.




The Texas Department of Public Safety
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/relatedlaws.htm

Current laws as of September 1, 2007 (PDF)
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf

Excerpt from "TEXAS CONCEALED
HANDGUN LAWS
AND SELECTED STATUTES

2007-2008

PC W6.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control
(a-I) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
[...]




And on hunting regs.,...




http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_bk_w7000_0112a_means_def_acts.pdf
LEGAL GAME, BAG AND POSSESSION LIMITS, AND MEANS AND METHODS OF HUNTING
PROHIBITED ACTS [excerpt]
"possesses a loaded firearm within or on a motor vehicle except as provided for a disabled person (see page vii),"
35 posted on 03/20/2009 4:13:01 AM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: familyop

Unless you are traveling at through 3 counties, with the burden of proof on you.


36 posted on 03/20/2009 4:32:47 AM PDT by donmeaker (You may not be interested in War but War is interested in you.)
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To: Mad Dawgg

That’s a good principal. Where are they today, and why can’t we fire all these a**hats who suspend drill team members for having obviously phony drill-team rifles in their cars?

Weapons are not the problem, kids who don’t know right from wrong are the problem.IMHO


37 posted on 03/20/2009 4:33:38 AM PDT by Ipponed (Roe vs Wade, as in: should we row or wade through the ocean of the spilt blood of the innocent)
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To: familyop

Of course there should be a rash of 911 calls reporting people with holstered pistols eating or purchasing doughnuts, or driving.

(That they are wearing police uniforms should not be material).


38 posted on 03/20/2009 4:38:03 AM PDT by donmeaker (You may not be interested in War but War is interested in you.)
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To: Jet Jaguar
OK let me get this right....A store owner by putting up a sign nullifies my second amendment rights?
39 posted on 03/20/2009 4:40:53 AM PDT by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: Spktyr
This is why Texas needs to leave the union - we still have a tradition of open carry of long arms and we’d like to keep it, thank you very much...

An accurate interpretation of the RKBA in the Texas Constitution would acknowledge the right to carry either openly or concealed ....period.

Even down here, the-powers-that-be won't admit to the full scope of the People's rights.

40 posted on 03/20/2009 4:42:36 AM PDT by MamaTexan (The Founders 4 boxes of FReedom- the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box...and the ammo box)
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To: TexasRedeye
Your as wrong as the first poster was. You can have a handgun in your vehicle for protection while traveling, as long as it's concealed in the vehicle, not on your person. If you have CCW then it must be concealed on your person or concealed in the vehicle.
41 posted on 03/20/2009 4:47:15 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: donmeaker
In TX the property owner has a right to keep weapons off they're property. I have people coming on my place all the time, working on wells and associated equipment. I have signs posted on all my cattle guards saying no firearms allowed. If I catch ya with one your off my place forever, if I catch ya poaching you're going to jail.
42 posted on 03/20/2009 4:53:55 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: TYVets
"I as a customer have the right to leave that store, restaurant, etc without making a purchase never to return.

If I see a sign at says No Guns Allowed I leave. If I have time, I tell the manager about my displeasure and why I will not be back.
"

That's true. But we would also quickly find out who most of the liberals in our country are, and the realization would probably surprise most of us. IMO, if required to keep visible weapons out, nearly all of the owners of public businesses would have those signs posted.


43 posted on 03/20/2009 4:56:08 AM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: donmeaker
"Unless you are traveling at through 3 counties, with the burden of proof on you."

The laws are a mess. IMO, open carry in vehicles should be legal everywhere. But we know that some municipals--especially large city interests--are going to continue to fight that, and we know why.


44 posted on 03/20/2009 5:02:40 AM PDT by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: Thermalseeker

In the mid-sixties when I was in the 8-9th grade we would bring our shotguns to school on the bus. We had to leave our ammo at the office, but we got to keep our guns in our lockers. After school we’d go hunting pheasants with our buddies. This was in Kalifornia, Bear River Jr. High in Wheatland. It was a rural area with wheat and rice fields that provided great pheasant/duck hunting. Some kids even rode their horses to school. Things sure have changed.


45 posted on 03/20/2009 5:03:39 AM PDT by panaxanax (Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't.)
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To: Dusty Road

I occasionally carried on my property. It annoyed my ex-wife no end, but that wasn’t the reason why I did it.

Texas used to (I moved away in 2002) have a law permitting the use of deadly force to keep someone from stealing your car. Rationale: there are many dry places in Texas where theft of a car amounts to a murder. Preventing theft is a form of self defense.


46 posted on 03/20/2009 5:09:44 AM PDT by donmeaker (You may not be interested in War but War is interested in you.)
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To: donmeaker

There is no burden of proof needed when traveling in TX, you can have one in the vehicle even if it’s just a trip to the grocery store.


47 posted on 03/20/2009 5:11:01 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Robe

Nope, but the store owner’s property rights supersede your 2A rights ON HIS PROPERTY because you don’t have to patronize that store. You have the right to take your business elsewhere.


48 posted on 03/20/2009 5:11:31 AM PDT by Axeslinger (Where has my country gone?)
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To: donmeaker

A rifle and a handgun ride in my truck daily.


49 posted on 03/20/2009 5:13:09 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: 21twelve
My rules.

If you are pointing it be shooting it, if shooting it make sure the target is dead.

50 posted on 03/20/2009 5:15:00 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit)
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