Posted on 03/25/2009 7:07:20 PM PDT by rabscuttle385
COLLEGE PARK, Md. - If it seems like a nightmare now, it started with a dream come true.
Anna Viviano got into one of the best schools in the country, and as an ROTC recruit, she didn't have to pay a penny.
"I talked to a couple recruiters and they were just like you can go to Vanderbilt for free," she recalled.
And for two and a-half years, Viviano thrived -- second in her ROTC class and a near-perfect GPA.
"I thought everything was going swimmingly -- was right on track to do what I wanted," she said.
Then came the unexpected. During a doctor's visit for allergies, she was diagnosed with asthma. Two months after that, in December 2005, she got news from the Navy.
"And that's when they told me you're being kicked out because you have exercise induced asthma," she recalled.
Not only was she medically discharged, she had to pay back what the Navy had spent on tuition for her first two and a-half years: $75,000. It was to be paid in full within the month.
"And when that didn't happen, they asked for $20,000 on top of that," Viviano said.
Three years of appeals to the Navy -- and three letters of rejection later -- 24 year-old Anna Viviano now owes $100,000.
"And it just feels like I'm yelling out there and nobody's hearing," she said. "And I hired a lawyer, thinking he's got a bigger voice but he just got drowned out just like me."
Viviano is now a graduate student at the University of Maryland. She says she is considering suing the Navy and considering filing for bankruptcy.
A Navy official says the Navy is looking into the matter but decline to comment, saying each case is different and a response will take time.
DFAS bureaucrats are utterly incompetent.
Our government at work. And yes, I can attest to similar treatment from various government agencies too.
Oh they hear...
they just don't care!
I’m pretty sure that the standard ROTC contract states that if the student cannot/does not join the military, then all tuition moneys have to be repaid. I
Absolutely outrageous. If she’d refused to take a commission and serve after graduation or gotten a bad conduct discharge that would be one thing, but for a medical discharge?!?!
Great way to look after your people there.
Need more evidence to judge innocence or guilt
Well - I’ll be the first to say she owes the Navy (we taxpayers) a refund....
She was unable to fulfill her end of the agreement..
I also suspect her “exercise induced asthma” was a precondition she couldn’t help but be aware of....
She should shut up and pay up...
We taxpayers are tapped out by being the patsy for EVERYONE....
Dude, she's married. I know her personally. Be nice; be respectful here.
I know a couple kids on full ROTC scholarship. First year, and then you drop out, no problem, you don’t have to pay it back. But if you go beyond the first year, and then drop out, you are liable for the tuition. At least that’s what they told me when I inquired how the scholarship works. I might add that a full ROTC scholarship includes room, board, tuition, books, and a stipend.
I’m pretty sure that the standard ROTC contract states that if the student cannot/does not join the military, then all tuition moneys have to be repaid.
Positive. My son went through it, and he became active his junior year. Some go through it, and never officially commit. They are responsible for payment after the first to years.
Sorry honey, but cough up the cash.
Life's tough. Wear a helmet.
L
Maybe she should have told the Navy that she wanted to go to law school and stay in the Navy. I went to high school with a guy who went all the way through college in NROTC, only to be turned down for officer’s training school because of his eye sight. He ended up a jag. I guess someone decided the glasses didn’t matter so much as a lawyer.
It looks as if the Navy did not perform their Due Diligence.
She signed the contract knowing full well what the terms were.
Sorry honey, but cough up the cash.
Life’s tough. Wear a helmet.”
Affirmative. Pay up. They gave my kid a physical every twelve minutes, and I even paid for them.
LOL.
Is her asthma really that severe that she cannot serve in the military in any capacity? Does she still desire to fulfill her obligation?
Agreed... I think that there are contractual provisions that permit a drop out after the first year (but before the second year) where you don’t have to pay for that year of college. Otherwise, you do.
They do give a lot of physicals. Hmmmmm, not sure.
She just might have a case here. Get a new lawyer.
“considering filing for bankruptcy.”
~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t think they let you do that with tuition bills anymore.
I think the Navy is way out of line here. Asthma is a fairly common ailment and fairly easy to control with medication. While you don't want to put a person on a submarine or a ship likely to be in combat who is prone to asthma, there are about 3-4 rear echelon jobs in the army for every front-line job and, I would guess, an even higher ratio in the navy.
Therefore, I don't see how this is any different from any other contract-- the young lady is apparently quite willing to serve, the navy is just unwilling to make minimal accomodations to exclude her from the 20% or assignments where an asthma condition would be a genuine impediment. That's the Navy's choice, not hers and she shouldn't have to pay for something she can't control.
I used to work with a guy who received over $300 a month - for life - because he fainted during a induction physical. (Like this lady, he was never sworn into any branch of armed forces)
If the termination was for medical reasons, that arose after her signing a contract, if she had performed in good faith and as reasonably requested, and there is nothing in the contract that clearly states that any failure to complete will result in repayment; there is someone out there who can get her home free and maybe with a nest egg.
Even if it states that repayment is due (immediately) if the student gets sick - particularly as a result of the training required by the USN - even the government would be hard pressed to enforce such a clearly discriminatory contract.
Having had to deal with the VA as well as the government in general, I've got to believe that this is a case of bureaucracy doing what it does best by screwing up an interpretation of policy to the detriment of the individual.
One thing is clear ... she has appealed the Navy’s decision three times, unsuccessfully. What I’d like to read are those three decisions — and the underlying rules and regulations upon which they are based. I’d also like to read the precise language of any contracts that she signed to join the ROTC program ... and what they say about medical disqualification and repayment obligations. The problem with this news story (like many news stories) is that we really don’t have all of the pertinent information.
You know her? Then post her picture, already!
Never happen. You don’t get a va service connected disability if you never served. whoever told you that is an outright liar.
Military is funny, and it depends on the times. ROTC grad in 1980 with Chem Eng degree. Choose Chem Corp, but half way in tha paper work, they could not give it to me because the Chem Corp just got re classified as combat support, thus my eyesight and glasses precluded me from being in it. Next closest MOS was Ordnance Corp (despite name most officers end up being maintenance officers). Went into the Reserves, found a local unit, but no ordnance slots, so they assigned me to be a training officer in an Infantry One Station Unit Training division. Spent most of my career in the reserves as a basic training officer for infantry. Most of my annual training was in Ft Benning GA, home of the infantry. When I was assigned the battalion mob officer duty, I looked up what my war plan duties were. Guess what, in the worst case scenario, the basic training unit upon finishing infantry school, ALL the officers (disregarding branch) will be deployed with the unit as a replacement for any losses. In other words all that time spent in the basic training IN-OSUT company I was essentially an infantry officer despite my “poor” eyesight. An old sarge once told me, when the crap hits the fan, everyone will be infantry!! Wonder if things have changed since then.
On another note, it took literally years to get a pension for a friend with both PTSD and Asbestosis from his gig in the Navy...but I was offered ten to fifteen percent for fungus (passed).
“I also suspect her “exercise induced asthma” was a precondition she couldn’t help but be aware of....”
Not necessarily. Mine showed up in my late 30’s. I was previously a competitive surfer, soccer player, pilot rescue swimmer, etc. ad nauseum. Ran everyday. When the exercise induced asthma showed up it was large and in charge. Not all asthma onset is during childhood.
Usually paying back tuition was a matter of punitive action. If you put in your time and effort, medical wasn't held against you. Racking up penalties and interest makes me think somebody got a transfer from the IRS over to the Navy ROTC office.
The Navy has no billets for shore duty hogging people. Go to sea or go home.
Sorry, but I never accept a plaintiff attorney's theory of the case as being absolutely true. I'll wait for the facts to come out.
all bureaucrats are utterly incompetent.
Not one exception in the history of the world.
Pic at link. Not guilty. Very not guilty.
I don't know if I agree here... I had a college roommate who tried to join the marines after he realized that college just wasn't for him. He played lacrosse as a mid-fielder all through grade school, high school, and college, but he failed his marines physical and couldn't join because they diagnosed him with "exercise induced asthma." And he was a mid-fielder!
Mark
Great way to attract top students into the ROTC and military too. I’m sure every kid who’s on the verge of choosing a college and deciding whether or not to commit to an ROTC scholarship offer is hearing about this, and so are their parents. Just think about it — a kid could get turned into a paraplegic by a drunk driver or come down with brain cancer, and the Navy would send them a six figure bill.
I’ve had two exercise-induced asthma episodes in my life — both very scary and both in situations where a coach/instructor was insisting I continue a strenuous activity when I was saying I needed to stop and rest. First episode was when I was about 16 and the second was when I was 22. It’s very possible that this young lady had never had such an episode before she started college, and it may well have been brought to light by rigorous ROTC training activities where there was intense pressure to continue even when you felt you really needed to stop. If it hadn’t been for those two unwise individuals I encountered (first was a high school Phys Ed teacher during a swimming class, second was a college gymnastics team coach), I’d have gone right on doing what I’d always done — resting for a couple of minutes when I felt I really needed to — and I would never have known I had exercise-induced asthma.
“I don’t think they let you do that with tuition bills anymore”
Well, technically it’s not a tuition bill. It’s a contractual debt owed to DOD, I suppose. That being said, were I in a similar position I’d file for bankruptcy in a heartbeat.
Fer cryin’ out loud, she’s a grad student! I survived on Kool-Aid and pancakes while I was in graduate school, ‘cause I didn’t have any money. I doubt she’s any different, so she can’t pay it back anyway. That’s what bankruptcy is for.
Now they may have some interesting twists on not being able to take bankruptcy, but I’d sure pursue it. I don’t see much difference between this and a medical bankruptcy. In fact, it sounds a lot like a medical bankruptcy.
Having worked my way through most of my college education, part of me wonders why one would seem to be saying they’re entitled to a free ride. I guess I didn’t have access to programs like that when I went through.
They also didn’t charge you the price of a house for your education.
I payed my tuition as I went too.
If it were a pre-existing condition, why wouldn't it have shown up either in the pre-enlistment physical, or during the two years she'd already been in the NROTC? I'm assuming that they do physical training at some point during those college years.
And why couldn't she have been trained by the Navy for a less strenuous position? Not everyone in the Navy has a position that is physically demanding.
I’m pretty sure there was due diligence.
I don’t know what it’s like now, but in the 90’s every ROTC candidate (Army, Navy and Air Force) had to undergo a very thorough physical and each physical was reviewed by the Department of Defense Medical Review Board (DODMERB) before a scholarship was awarded. These physicals are much more thorough than the MEPS physicals.
Indeed, but the contract says if YOU back out of the deal, then you must repay. Recall that is was the Navy that backed out of the contract. That is very different.
“And why couldn’t she have been trained by the Navy for a less strenuous position? Not everyone in the Navy has a position that is physically demanding.”
Here’s why. Navy officers go to sea. In fact, I can’t think of a navy officer job that doesn’t go to sea. Dentists, lawyers, supply officers, intelligence officers, cryptologists all go to sea, not just the pilots, submariners and surface warfare types. What are considered REMF-type jobs in the army, those which mostly require sitting at desk and producing paperwork, are done at sea in the navy. Navy officers, therefore, must be deployable, which precludes a lot of medical conditions that may be acceptable in the other services where REMF-types can be are stationed at bases with good medical facilities. Not so in the Navy. At sea, an asthma attack can become a medical emergency that requires a whole lot of manpower and extraordinary effort, effort that is not, at that point in time, going into accomplishing the mission. The navy, understandably, goes to great lengths to minimize medical emergencies at sea.
In my experience the navy is a whole lot faster to “medical board” an officer (toss them out for medical reasons) than the army or air force. I had a friend with cancer who sought treatment at army facilities instead of navy facilities for that reason.
I was a senior officer in the reserves when I developed asthma in my early forties. Even though I hadn’t been “haze gray” (deployed) in decades, I was told I had to retire. Bottom line is—navy officers must remain deployable, or they must go.
I don’t think that she can file for bankruptcy on this one. When you owe a government agency a debt, the debt is not dischargable. That’s why you can’t dodge on student loans or tax bills.
It’s a Hail Mary play at best, but if she goes to her congresscritter, maybe he might offer a personal amendment to discharge her debt in one must pass bill or another. It hardly ever happens, but neither does hitting the lottery.
Or, they might even require the Navy to offer her a choice between service and discharge of the debt.
Sooo not guilty!
Hubba hubba!
On the other hand, I had a friend (may he RIP) who was diagnosed with Type I diabetes on a sea trip in the Navy.
He never worked another day in his life.
Whether he was in the Navy or not, he would have the disease.
I liked the guy, but it seemed out of whack to me.
It’s not just a job, it’s your life savings and more!
Maryland “Freak State” PING!
She is semi-guilty, but sentenced merely to time served due to her patriotism.
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