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Police: Gunman stopped by single shot from cop
ap on Yahoo ^ | 3/30/09 | Mike Baker - ap

Posted on 03/30/2009 9:14:28 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

CARTHAGE, N.C. – A single shot from a decorated police officer stopped a gunman's rampage through a North Carolina nursing home, ending a slaughter that left eight people dead and three more wounded, police said Monday.

Carthage Police Chief Chris McKenzie said Monday the gunman may have targeted the home because his estranged wife, whom he did not name, works there. ...

Authorities said Robert Stewart, 45, went on a terrifying rampage in the Pinelake Health and Rehab center on Sunday morning, killing seven residents and a nurse and wounding three other people.

He was stopped by a single shot to the chest fired by Justin Garner, a decorated police officer responding to a 911 call. Stewart wounded Garner three times in the leg as they traded gunfire in a hallway, McKenzie said.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: banglist; carthage; gunman; northcarolina; nursinghome; singleshot; stopped
His ex-wife, they divorced in 2001, was a nursing assistant at the center.

He had recently been in contact with some of the family, had cancer and would be going away on a long trip.

One of the victims was 98. The youngest victim, a male nurse, was 39.

Prayers going out to all the families and deepest condolences.

1 posted on 03/30/2009 9:14:28 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge
Budget cuts must be serious, he didn't double-tap the guy.

Spend the savings on a medal.

2 posted on 03/30/2009 9:15:36 AM PDT by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: 100%FEDUP; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; ~Vor~; a4drvr; Adder; Aegedius; Afronaut; alethia; ...

NC *Ping*

Please FRmail MitchellC if you want to be added to or removed from this North Carolina ping list.
3 posted on 03/30/2009 9:16:08 AM PDT by MitchellC ("I can no more renounce Rush, than I can my own grandmother...")
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To: NormsRevenge
Single shot?

He should have fired multiple shots until the POS was sure to be taking the "eternal dirt nap".

4 posted on 03/30/2009 9:21:57 AM PDT by DocH (The WAR on our RIGHTS must NOT go unanswered - Keep your powder dry)
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To: NormsRevenge

I’m glad Officer Garner did not wait for “sufficient force” and/or the SWAT team to arrive.


5 posted on 03/30/2009 9:26:39 AM PDT by EyeGuy
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To: DocH

Due to budget cuts each police officer is alloted one bullet per month. The reason is lead is a toxic chemcial so they have switched to copper bullets. Also, if possibly, they are to re-aquire the bullet from the victom and remelt it into another bullet in order to finish out the month with at least one bullet in their gun.


6 posted on 03/30/2009 9:26:54 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: NormsRevenge

“He was stopped by a single shot to the chest” Well obviously he was not “Stopped” or he would not have been able to return fire and wound the police officer. “Stopped” is when the shooter can do no further harm.


7 posted on 03/30/2009 9:29:21 AM PDT by Shane (I'll keep my guns, money and freedom, you can keep the change.)
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To: DocH
Apparently you missed this part:

He was stopped by a single shot to the chest fired by Justin Garner, a decorated police officer responding to a 911 call. Stewart wounded Garner three times in the leg as they traded gunfire in a hallway, McKenzie said.

He fired multiple times, one struck the gunman and stopped him. He fired enough. One discharge or 12, you fire until your target is incapacitated and then you stop. Period.

And given the environment, it's best the LEO fired as few times as possible; drywall will not stop misses very well, and with aged and infirm bystanders the chance of incidental shooting deaths skyrockets.

Kudos to the LEO to recognizing when it was time to holster his firearm.

This should also be a lesson for all CCW and carriers - you WILL miss with the majority of your shots. You should count on hitting once for every 5 to 7 shots (yes, a 20% hit rate is very good). Carrying a pistol with fewer than 7 shots is essentially taking a gamble that you are a better on-the-move, in-the-action shooter than experienced LEO and troops and are willing to run dry without a single hit on the target.

8 posted on 03/30/2009 9:35:34 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: NormsRevenge
To those who are making silly comments about how this officer performed...

Please stop revealing your ignorance and lack of awareness of how these things go down.

This officer saved probably more than a few lives and all you armchair QBs can do is disparage his effectiveness?

The report probably lacks all the facts, perhaps only one shot hit the threat, maybe the officer had to thread a needle and make his one shot count.

I doubt if any of you have ever experienced what this officer has and your ridiculous “double tap” and austerity budget comments are quite sophomoric (without thought).

I am very glad that it only took one good hit to stop the badness. If in fact he fired only one shot that would be a credit to his coolness under fire (have any of you been to see the elephant?). Though not. PS- he did this while hit multiple times, probably on the ground or immobilized; I would like to shake his hand and give him a medal myself.

9 posted on 03/30/2009 9:40:21 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret) "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

That tends to answer a sticky problem that I have to face up to, my absolute favorite pistol is my Sig P220, but it only holds 8 rounds of .45, 10 if I wanted a longer mag.

I also have three Glocks, the G20, G21 and G23, none hold less than thirteen rounds but are not as accurate as the Sig.

So in view of the dramatic increase of violence it is making me rethink about carrying the Glock, there is nothing wrong with it but I am a purist and have more affection for fine pieces made of metal such as the German built Sig.

Also just happening is another family killing/suicide in Santa Clara CA up on Drudge.


10 posted on 03/30/2009 9:48:37 AM PDT by Eye of Unk ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: NormsRevenge

Yet another example of: “The bad shooting stops when the good gun shows up”!

Unfortunately here in Texas, private citizens carrying a concealed weapon at a nursing home or hospital or other health institution is illegal.

Had the nurse that was shot been carrying, could he have stopped the shooter? We’ll never know.


11 posted on 03/30/2009 9:56:44 AM PDT by TexasRedeye (uickly)
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To: NormsRevenge

Officer Garner needs more range time. Unfortunately, he only wounded the gunman. Would have saved us taxpayers a lot of trouble if Officer Garner had killed the gunman.


12 posted on 03/30/2009 10:05:09 AM PDT by DFG
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To: Eye of Unk

I’ve got a P229 (40 cal) SIG - I love it! But my carry pieces are either my S&W Sigma 9 (ugly, and accuracy isn’t too good beyond 15 yards but I’m not looking for a firefight at that range) or a pair of Kel Tec P32s (8 rounds each, one for each hand, giving me 16 rounds live and ready to go with the pull of a trigger from either the weak or strong side).

My usual is the Kel Tec setup - very light weight, easy to conceal, and lots of flexibility. Plus if my firearm jams (which does happen, even with SIGs) I have a backup pistol ready to go.

And I do all my practice point shooting exclusively singled handed, strong and weak side. No Weaver stance for me - I practice shooting while moving, running, ducking. In other words, returning fire while presenting as bad a target for the other guy as I can!

I have the SIG, and it does shoot like a dream, but I prefer to carry the Sigma 9; having those extra 5 shots (I have the 17 round magazines) is nice, and if I drop the Sigma and scratch the crap out of it, well, it’s not a SIG that got damaged! I think I’d cry if that beautiful slide got all dinged up if it crashed into concrete...


13 posted on 03/30/2009 10:06:07 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Manly Warrior
Please stop revealing your ignorance and lack of awareness of how these things go down.
Great post. What this officer did was truly heroic and took real guts.
Ask any combat vet - despite all the training, the reality of being there is something else again.
14 posted on 03/30/2009 10:12:29 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Yeah I have the SW9VE as well, it would be the first thing I would lose if needed. I am getting some Lone Wolf barrels for the Glocks.


15 posted on 03/30/2009 10:13:16 AM PDT by Eye of Unk ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: NormsRevenge

The cop made one mistake...he took the guy down with a single shot to the chest, but the gunman could have been wearing armor and could have taken the cop out. The proper procedure where you have a homocidal gunman is to fire multiple bullets to the chest and one to the head in case the gunman is wearing body armor. We need to stop being so upset when the police permanently take out a gunman.


16 posted on 03/30/2009 10:27:23 AM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel
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To: MIchaelTArchangel
Stewart wounded Garner three times in the leg as they traded gunfire in a hallway, McKenzie said.

I'm willing to bet that more than one shot was fired by the LEO; one struck. Apparently you've never been in a firefight, and do not realize that 4 out of 5 (or more) of your shots miss. Getting multiple consecutive shots on target when the target is moving AND you are avoiding being shot (presenting as small of a target possible yourself) is nearly impossible.

One shot was apparently enough. If the gunman had body armor, he may have taken more, but having seen guys hit while wearing body armor, he'd be an easier target at that point (the vest may stop the bullet from penetrating you, but it still hurts like crazy, does a fair amount of blunt force trauma, and will stun you for at least a few seconds).

The reality is that - even with all the training you can muster - in a firefight you're lucky to hit more than 20% of the time. And that drops immensely if you're shooting for head shots only. You shoot for the largest area of the target as possible, and if your target is wearing body armor you'll slow them down.

Ever seen the damage on the inside of a IIIA vest after being hit with a 9mm round? No, there's no hole from the bullet, but the golf-ball sized protrusion will get your attention in a hurry, if not crack or break a rib. Body armor will stop you from being perforated by pistols, but it won't keep you from being incapacitated.

I've seen guys knocked out of breath - like they were punched in the solar plexus - when hit in their body armor, and it took them 5+ seconds to recover. And the bruises that showed up a few hours later were some of the nastiest black and blue patches I've seen...

17 posted on 03/30/2009 10:49:21 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
"And I do all my practice point shooting exclusively singled handed, strong and weak side. No Weaver stance for me"

Weaver stance is what they taught us in the military. IMO, not the best stance. The best stance is to shoot one handed. Go to a pistol competition and you will find that most shooters are shooting one handed with the other hand either in their pocket or on their belt loop. Good idea to practice shooting weakside though.
18 posted on 03/30/2009 10:59:40 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: oh8eleven
I must agree, when you are in contact, things are Ono the same as at the range. I have an old SW Model 29, 44 mag. I enjoy shooting this weapon, I have had it for 2o some years and have grow in confidence in my ability to shoot it at moving or still targets. Practice, practice makes you better. I feel comfortable with it up to 40 yards, like I said I have been using it for a while and shoot almost every week. I Feel the officer did his job and saved lives.
19 posted on 03/30/2009 11:05:15 AM PDT by cav68
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To: oh8eleven
I must agree, when you are in contact, things are not the same as at the range. I have an old SW Model 29, 44 mag. I enjoy shooting this weapon, I have had it for 2o some years and have grow in confidence in my ability to shoot it at moving or still targets. Practice, practice makes you better. I feel comfortable with it up to 40 yards, like I said I have been using it for a while and shoot almost every week. I Feel the officer did his job and saved lives.
20 posted on 03/30/2009 11:05:56 AM PDT by cav68
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
"Plus if my firearm jams (which does happen, even with SIGs) I have a backup pistol ready to go."

Which is why I carry a revolver. No chance of a jam and I feel completely safe carrying it with a round chambered due to the internal transfer bar. Prevents any possibility of an accidental discharge due to a drop.

Also, someone mentioned about having 1 round hit out of 7 is normal. That may be true, but I have also read that when a CCW has had to actually fire his weapon (most of the time, displaying the weapon is enough to diffuse the situation or send the scumbag fleeing) the average shots fired is something like 2-3. My guess is that once a criminal gets into a firefight they get out of the area. It is not their intention to get into a firefight and the longer they are there, the more chance to get caught. In a situation like this nursing home, you should carry a speedloader and re-load in a matter of seconds. Hopefully if you know you only have 5-6 rounds you are smart enough not to fire them off in .2 seconds.
21 posted on 03/30/2009 11:12:16 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: cav68
"I have an old SW Model 29"

Did you shoot five or six shots Harry? : )
22 posted on 03/30/2009 11:13:36 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Manly Warrior
The fact he even hit the perp in the chest is a testament to his keeping a cool head in a gunfight no matter how many rounds were exchanged.

Everything changes when the lead starts flying. Auditory exclusion starts. Time really slows down. Tunnel vision can occur. Fight or flight mode kicks in.

All the armchair shooters posting about what 'should' have happened have probably never been forced into a situation like this.

I hope the city provides good counceling for him. He will need it, I'm sure.

23 posted on 03/30/2009 11:44:18 AM PDT by Pistolshot (The Soap-box, The Ballot-box, The Jury-box, And The Cartridge-Box ...we are past 2 of them.)
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To: Manly Warrior

BTTT


24 posted on 03/30/2009 11:53:20 AM PDT by LucyJo
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

You’ll never know how good you are unless you compete.

http://idpa.com/


25 posted on 03/30/2009 3:39:31 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: NormsRevenge
His ex-wife, they divorced in 2001, was a nursing assistant at the center.

I think it was his current, but estranged wife that works at the center. I have not seen any interviews with or statements by her. She may have been the original target.

26 posted on 03/30/2009 4:28:24 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: EyeGuy
I’m glad Officer Garner did not wait for “sufficient force” and/or the SWAT team to arrive.

Would have been even better if the ex Coast Guard male nurse would have been armed, and taken the killer out, rather than trying to defend his patients unarmed, and getting himself shot 27 times. Yea, 27, and they didn't kill him right away, he just bled out faster than the EMTs and doctors could patch him up.

27 posted on 03/30/2009 4:30:45 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato

Thanks, I misread that.


28 posted on 03/30/2009 4:36:14 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
you WILL miss with the majority of your shots. You should count on hitting once for every 5 to 7 shots

That may be the way they train you in the Army, but not in the Marine Corps. :)

29 posted on 03/30/2009 5:54:02 PM PDT by DocH (The WAR on our RIGHTS must NOT go unanswered - Keep your powder dry)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
What you describe is called conventional pistol or more commonly, “bullseye” and is hte classic target shooting discipline of precision shooting at 25 to 50 yards.

All combat disciplines emphasize multiple shots from dynamic positions and tactical scenarios (some more realistic than others).

No combat instructor today would teach one handed combat shooting with one hand as your PRIMARY method.

Shoot with two hands if at all possible-when the adrenaline reaches your major muscles, you have tremendous strength, but you lose fine motor skills as well (trembling).

Many folks who post on this forum do not have real life experience, so as an NRA Rifle and Pistol Instructor, well trained in CQC and modern pistol craft technique, as well as a combat vet, get professional training and practice, shoot (IDPA) matches for stress and tactics and be aware...

30 posted on 03/30/2009 7:40:32 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret) "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Body armor will stop you from being perforated by pistols, but it won't keep you from being incapacitated.

I'm reminded of an incident that happened in the Atlanta area a few years ago. A cop was chasing a burglar on foot when the bad guy turned around and fired a shot at him with a .380 pistol, which is certainly not a powerhouse cartridge by any means. The cop was wearing body armor, but he went down and had to be taken to an emergency room for treatment of a very bad bruise over his heart that was causing breathing problems IIRC.

I saw a color picture of the bruise on local TV news, and even though the cop was a black guy the dark bruise was very obvious and looked to be about the size of my hand. If a puny little .380 can do that through body armor think what a .45 acp or .357 magnum would do.

31 posted on 03/30/2009 7:56:01 PM PDT by epow (Liberals aren't liars because they lie, they lie because they're liars.)
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To: DocH
That may be the way they train you in the Army, but not in the Marine Corps. :)

What can I say... Soldiers are also taught that the bullets come out of the small end, and hurt really bad when they hit you...:)

32 posted on 03/30/2009 9:00:42 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Manly Warrior
"Many folks who post on this forum do not have real life experience"

Thanks for the advice, but I got my first taste of real life experience at 18. I was not commenting on what you should do when confronted by an armed robber but was commenting on the weaver stance. The weaver stance is taught by the military for pistol target shooting. I was explaining that was not the optimum target shooting position. I am currently on a pistol competition team. If you ever have to get into a gunfight, sight alignment and sight picture will not be the foremost things on your mind.

There are many things about old cowboy movies that are bogus, however one thing that is not bogus is when they show the cowboys with one arm outstretched and shooting. That is the best position for shooting. The few gunfights in the old west, this is most likely what the shooters did because that is how shooting used to be taught all the time. It's the quickest way to get the gun in play and you make the best shots that way.
33 posted on 03/31/2009 4:35:34 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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