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Using Religion to Suppress Debate on Evolution
The Washington Post ^ | March 27, 2009 | John G. West

Posted on 03/30/2009 8:31:35 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

Using Religion to Suppress Debate on Evolution

By John G. West Senior Fellow, Discovery Institute

Evolution was back in the headlines this week as the Texas State Board of Education voted 13-2 to require students to "analyze and evaluate" major evolutionary concepts such as common ancestry, natural selection, and mutations, as well as adopting a critical thinking standard calling on students to "critique" and examine "all sides of scientific evidence."

The vote was a loss for defenders of evolution who had pushed the Board to strip the "analyze and evaluate" language from the evolution standards and gut the overall critical thinking standard.

Evolutionists typically cast themselves as the champions of secular reason against superstition, but in Texas they tried to inject religion into the debate at every turn.

Indeed, this past week it seemed that they couldn't stop talking about religion. They boasted about their credentials as Sunday School teachers and church elders. They quoted the Bible and appealed to theology...

(Excerpt) Read more at newsweek.washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: board; creation; darwin; darwinism; education; evolution; evoreligion; goodgodimnutz; intelligentdesign; neodarwinism; templeofdarwin; texas
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1 posted on 03/30/2009 8:31:35 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: editor-surveyor; metmom; Alamo-Girl; GourmetDan; MrB; valkyry1; DaveLoneRanger; jimmyray; ...
Ping! And a new cartoon from CEH :o)


2 posted on 03/30/2009 8:35:09 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: betty boop

Ping!


3 posted on 03/30/2009 8:35:40 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
They want people to think that there isn't any sort of basic incompatibility between evoloserism and Christianity. There is and it's gigantic.

Newt Gingrich once stated the problem of evolutionism and morality about as succinctly as is possible in noting that the question of whether a man views his neighbor as a fellow child of God or as a meat byproduct of random processes simply has to affect human relationships.

Basically, every halfway honest person with any brains and talent who has taken any sort of a hard look at evolution in the past 60 years has given up on it and many have denounced it. A listing of fifty or sixty such statements makes for an overwhelming indictment of that part of the scientific community which goes on trying to defend evolution and they (the evolosers) have a favorite term ( "quote mining") which they use to describe that sort of argument.

My own response to that is to note what I view as the ultimate evolution quote by the noted evolutionist (actually, FORMER evolutionist) Jeffrey Dahmer:

"If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behaviour to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing…"

Jeffrey Dahmer, in an interview with Stone Phillips, Dateline NBC, Nov. 29, 1994.

Dahmer converted to Christianity before he died. The basic tenets of true religion appear to be inprinted upon most of us biologically which is the only reason that Islammic societies and "secular humanist" societies like Britain and Canada function at all. A psychopath like Dahmer is basically somebody on whom that imprint did not take. For those guys, it has to be written down somewhere, and it has to be written down accurately; the bible does that. Telling somebody like Dahmer that we all evolved from "lucky dust" is a formula for getting people killed.

Evolution was the basic philosophical cornerstone of communism, naziism, the various eugenics programs, the out of control arms races which led to WW-I and WW-II, and all of the grief of the last 150 years. Starting from 1913, Europe had gone for a hundred years without a major war. They didn't even have to think. All they needed to do was act cool, go to church, have parades, formal balls, attend board meetings, and they'd still be running the world today; they'd be so fat and happy they'd not know what to do with themselves. Instead, they all got to reading about Darwinism, fang and claw, survival of the fittest and all the rest of that nonsense, and the rest as they say is history.

The most interesting analysis of that sad tale is probably Sir Arthur Keith's "Evolution and Ethics"

Keith apparently viewed belief in evolution as some sort of duty of the English educated classes, nonetheless he had a very clear vision of the problems inherent in it and laid it out in no uncertain terms:

From Sir Srthur Keith's "Evolution and Ethics:

Chapter 3

The Behavior of Germany Considered from an Evolutionary Point of View in 1942

....It is worth noting that Hitler uses a double designation for his tribal doctrine National Socialism: Socialism standing for the good side of the tribal spirit (that which works within the Reich); aud Nationalism for the ethically vicious part, which dominates policy at and outside the German frontiers.

The leader of Germany is an evolutionist not only in theory, but, as millions know to their cost, in the rigor of its practice. For him the national "front" of Europe is also the evolutionary "front"; he regards himself, and is regarded, as the incarnation of the will of Germany, the purpose of that will being to guide the evolutionary destiny of its people....

... "Humanitarianism is an evil . . . a creeping poison." "The most cruel methods are humane if they give a speedy victory" is Hitler's echo of a maxim attributed to Moltke. Such are the ways of evolution when applied to human affairs.

...I have said nothing about the methods employed by the Nazi leaders to secure tribal unity in Germany methods of brutal compulsion, bloody force, and the concentration camp. Such methods cannot be brought within even a Machiavellian system of ethics, and yet may be justified by their evolutionary result.

12.

....No aspect of Hitler's policy proclaims the antagonism between evolution and ethics so forcibly as his treatment of the Jewish people in Germany.... ...Hitler is an uncompromising evolutionist, and we must seek for an evolutionary explanation if we are to understand his actions....

It must not be thought that in seeking to explain Hitler's actions I am seeking to justify them. The opposite is the case. I have made this brief survey of public policy in modern Germany with a definite object: to show that Dr. Waddington is in error when he seeks to place ethics on a scientific basis by a knowledge of evolutionary tendencies and practice.

Chapter 4

Human Life: Its Purpose or Ultimate End

IN THE COURSE OF GATHERING INFORMATION concerning man's morality and the part it has played and is playing in his evolution, I found it necessary to provide space for slips which were labeled "Life: Its Ultimate and Proximate Purposes." Only those who have devoted some special attention to this matter are aware of the multitude of reasons given for the appearance of man on earth. Here I shall touch on only a few of them; to deal with all would require a big book. The reader may exclaim: Why deal with any of them! What has ultimate purpose got to do with ethics and evolution! Let a man with a clearer head and a nimbler pen than mine reply. He is Edward Carpenter, who wrote Civilization: Its Cause and Cure (1889).

14.

It is from the sixteenth edition (1923) I am to quote, p. 249:

If we have decided what the final purpose or Life of Man is, then we may say that what is good for that purpose i

s finally "good" and what is bad for that purpose is finally "evil."

...If the final purpose of our existence is that which has been and is being worked out under the discipline of evolutionary law, then, although we are quite unconscious of the end result, we ought, as Dr. Waddington has urged, to help on "that which tends to promote the ultimate course of evolution." If we do so, then we have to abandon the hope of ever attaining a universal system of ethics; for, as we have just seen, the ways of national evolution, both in the past and in the present, are cruel, brutal, ruthless, and without mercy. Dr. Waddington has not grasped the implications of Nature's method of evolution, for in his summing up (Nature, 1941, 150, p. 535) he writes "that the ethical principles formulated by Christ . . . are those which have tended towards the further evolution of mankind, and that they will continue to do so." Here a question of the highest interest is raised: the relationship which exists between evolution and Christianity; so important, it seems to me, that I shall devote to it a separate chapter. Meantime let me say that the conclusion I have come to is this:

the law of Christ is incompatible with the law of evolution as far as the law of evolution has worked hitherto. Nay, the two laws are at war with each other; the law of Christ can never prevail until the law of evolution is destroyed.

All of that, of course, deals only with the question of ethics and the logical consequences of evolutionism. The fact that evolution is junk science argues against it as well.

4 posted on 03/30/2009 8:39:26 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: GodGunsGuts

Evolution Theory is the second tenant of the religion of humanism and woe be to those that expose the weakness of evolution theory.


5 posted on 03/30/2009 8:44:45 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: GodGunsGuts

And good. There’s too much anti-conservative and anti-God news out there today. Glad to see the pendulum swing in the RIGHT direction if only for a moment.


6 posted on 03/30/2009 8:44:55 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Believe God is a myth? You'll have a helluva time in eternity.)
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To: wendy1946

All excellent points, Wendy. And thanks for that final link! I have never run across that site before, and I plan on going through it tonight. It looks like a definite candidate for my favorites list.

All the best—GGG


7 posted on 03/30/2009 8:45:28 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: taxcontrol

But expose it we will! And thanks for pointing out the evolution is a materialist/man-centered religion. One cannot repeat this fact enough!


8 posted on 03/30/2009 8:46:45 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Because heaven knows, critically thinking is something that should not be encouraged in students..

It is dizzing the lengths Evolutionists will go to, if they could step back and see themselves surely they would realize how anti Intellectual they are being.


9 posted on 03/30/2009 8:47:34 PM PDT by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: Gordon Greene

I don’t know if you can feel it or not, but I think the HMS Creation and ID have finally got the Evos on the run.


10 posted on 03/30/2009 8:48:33 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: padre35

It’s not about science, it’s about enforcing a world view under the guise of science.


11 posted on 03/30/2009 8:49:26 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Yeah I can agree with that thought, critical thinking should be a component of every scientific or even philosophical endeavor, to discourage such a standard is to mock both Science and Philosophy and replace it with a sort of skewed humanistic/anti knowledge dogma.


12 posted on 03/30/2009 8:52:09 PM PDT by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: GodGunsGuts

IBTEaCapc!


13 posted on 03/30/2009 8:52:49 PM PDT by Fichori (The only bailout I'm interested in is the one where the entire Democrat party leaves the county)
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To: wendy1946

Actually, that last link looked good when I read the links, but when I clicked on them all I got was a bunch of advertisements. Am I missing something?


14 posted on 03/30/2009 8:54:27 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I do believe that whatever happens God will prevail. I’m not so sure about God’s creation doing what it was designed by Him to do, but God is always true... Let God be true and every man a liar.

Lies have been on my lips (and the lips of all men) since birth and I have to fight Satan for control of my tongue daily. But that struggle is what this life is about.

I’m not optimistic the world will turn in the right direction, but I am more than optimistic God’s plan and purpose will be seen. Every spark of hope is just a blessing while we wait.


15 posted on 03/30/2009 8:54:59 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Believe God is a myth? You'll have a helluva time in eternity.)
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To: Fichori

Which means????? You and your super-long acronyms!


16 posted on 03/30/2009 8:55:36 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: wendy1946
Newt Gingrich once stated the problem of evolutionism and morality about as succinctly as is possible in noting that the question of whether a man views his neighbor as a fellow child of God or as a meat byproduct of random processes simply has to affect human relationships.

The truth of what Newt says is evidenced by what happened after Darwin's "Origin" was published. The emerging elites were swept away by enthusiasm and sought to apply Natural selection to every aspect of human life. Darwin didn't invent social darwinism, but his authority was behind this promiscuous application of nature selection. William Jennings Bryan, to this day, is treated as a buffoon because he was horrified by the bloodymindedness of the elites with regard to the poor and for this reason sought to curb the teaching of it in the schools.

17 posted on 03/30/2009 8:56:37 PM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE homo)
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To: Gordon Greene

I absolutely agree, GG. That’s not to say that once we have the Evos on the run that they won’t come up with a brand new God-denying “theory” to hide themselves from God (and use the force of government to try and shove down our throats). But in the meantime, the Temple of Darwinistic Materialism is going down!


18 posted on 03/30/2009 8:58:12 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: RobbyS; wendy1946

Some food for thought:

Darwin and eugenics: Darwin was indeed a ‘Social Darwinist’

http://creation.com/darwin-and-eugenics


19 posted on 03/30/2009 9:00:28 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

“But in the meantime, the Temple of Darwinistic Materialism is going down!”

I’ll be glad to see it burn along with all of its idols...

The Evolution religion has bred more intolerance than I think any other faith has. And they will do anything to keep from being labeled what they are: Religious zealots.


20 posted on 03/30/2009 9:01:33 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Believe God is a myth? You'll have a helluva time in eternity.)
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To: RobbyS
The truth of what Newt says is evidenced by what happened after Darwin's "Origin" was published.

Wow, good point, before Darwin, everybody was always nice to everybody else.

Do I need a sarcasm tag?

21 posted on 03/30/2009 9:04:23 PM PDT by hunter112 (SHRUG - Stop Hussein's Radical Utopian Gameplan!)
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To: GodGunsGuts
“Which means????? You and your super-long acronyms!”
In Before The ‘Evolution and Christianity are perfectly compatible’
22 posted on 03/30/2009 9:04:56 PM PDT by Fichori (The only bailout I'm interested in is the one where the entire Democrat party leaves the county)
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To: Fichori

LOL!


23 posted on 03/30/2009 9:05:38 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Well, his second books makes it clear that he was. He himself admitted he was not a good theorist, so he just followed his followers.


24 posted on 03/30/2009 9:05:38 PM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE homo)
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To: Fichori; GodGunsGuts

“In Before The ‘Evolution and Christianity are perfectly compatible’”

Any chance they will leave us to this one small victory... just this once?


25 posted on 03/30/2009 9:06:31 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Believe God is a myth? You'll have a helluva time in eternity.)
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To: Gordon Greene

==And they will do anything to keep from being labeled what they are: Religious zealots.

Bingo!


26 posted on 03/30/2009 9:07:35 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: hunter112

What happened before was child’s play with what has happened since.


27 posted on 03/30/2009 9:09:48 PM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE homo)
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To: Gordon Greene
"Any chance they will leave us to this one small victory... just this once?"

Naw, he'll be around any minute!

28 posted on 03/30/2009 9:10:28 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Sorry, the original link appears to have died since the last time I looked at it.


29 posted on 03/30/2009 9:10:48 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: editor-surveyor

“Naw, he’ll be around any minute!”

Wait for it... wait for it...

DANG! It’s time for me to go to bed and the fun’s not started yet!


30 posted on 03/30/2009 9:13:18 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Jesus said, "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life.")
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To: GodGunsGuts

Looking forward to reading up tomorrow.

Keep the faith, my friend


31 posted on 03/30/2009 9:15:21 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Jesus said, "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life." Any questions?)
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To: Gordon Greene

G’nite mate!


32 posted on 03/30/2009 9:19:02 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


33 posted on 03/30/2009 9:19:12 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: wendy1946
Interesting post. But I have a nit pick:

Seems like you are assuming Naturalism to be the inevatable conclusion of evolution.

If so I disagree.

I will grant that Naturalism needs Evolution or it fails. For Naturalism to be true, there must be a way for inorganic matter to become organic matter without supernatural intervention. However, I, as many others, think this is plausible and thus not the best grounds for rejecting Naturalism.

But it is not remotely true that if you accept Evolution you must accept Naturalism, for Naturalism also requires that inorganic stuff (matter and energy--all the stuff of nature) came from nothing else. This is not remotely plausible when one takes the time to reason it out. Thus Naturalism fails to rencocile itself to reason. Moreover it also fails other ways. for instance it can not be reconciled with the existance of experience--something we all have inately and constantly.

For the sake of argument though, let us assume you are correct and Evolution is false. I still think it is an ineffective mechanism for freeing the mind from Naturalism. When I was an agnostic, such a focus didn't help me at all. The arguments that freed my mind were based on conscious experience, and on the existance of stuff...things that were so obvious I needed to rely on no-one else's authority to ge the basic facts straight. I think these are the proofs that God gave to the skeptics like myself.

34 posted on 03/30/2009 9:21:39 PM PDT by AndyTheBear
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To: Gordon Greene

You to! All the best—GG plus a G :o)


35 posted on 03/30/2009 9:22:29 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Gordon Greene; GodGunsGuts
“Any chance they will leave us to this one small victory... just this once?”
I don't count on them leaving us anything.

We want victory, we go take it.

(hint: they aren't as smart as they think they are)
36 posted on 03/30/2009 9:23:45 PM PDT by Fichori (The only bailout I'm interested in is the one where the entire Democrat party leaves the county)
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To: RobbyS
What happened before was child’s play with what has happened since.

I don't believe that, and if it seems so, it's only because we've got better weapons. The Roman Empire could have done much more with gunpowder than it was able to do with mere steel.

37 posted on 03/30/2009 9:24:05 PM PDT by hunter112 (SHRUG - Stop Hussein's Radical Utopian Gameplan!)
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To: wendy1946

No problem. I really got excited there for a minute. It’s not often that I run into a new creation site I have never heard of before!


38 posted on 03/30/2009 9:24:41 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Fichori

That’s the key. We waaaayyyy outnumber them, and they know it (that’s why they’re they’re going to such great lengths to pretend they’re friendly to religion).


39 posted on 03/30/2009 9:27:32 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: wendy1946
Newt Gingrich once stated the problem of evolutionism and morality about as succinctly as is possible in noting that the question of whether a man views his neighbor as a fellow child of God or as a meat byproduct of random processes simply has to affect human relationships. Once stated where? Here's Newt's actual views on the record:


If you'd gone into science instead of politics, where do you think you would have ended up?
I would have been a naturalist. Edward O. Wilson is probably the closest to my model. I really love paleontology and animals and plants and the complexity of ecosystems.

Do you view evolution as "just a theory" or as the best explanation for how we came to be?
Evolution certainly seems to express the closest understanding we can now have. But it's changing too. The current tree of life is not anything like a 19th-century Darwinian tree. We're learning a lot about how systems evolve and don't evolve. Cockroaches became successful several hundred million years ago and just stopped evolving.

40 posted on 03/30/2009 9:28:31 PM PDT by Inappropriate Laughter
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To: Inappropriate Laughter

Perhaps that explains why Newt has become such a sellout.


41 posted on 03/30/2009 9:32:28 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Some of the stuff I see reminds me of Eugenie Scott’s efforts.


42 posted on 03/30/2009 9:34:17 PM PDT by Fichori (The only bailout I'm interested in is the one where the entire Democrat party leaves the county)
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To: Fichori

Actually, if memory serves, she was intimately involved in the campaign to intimidate the Texas Board of Education into censoring the scientific evidence critical of evolution.


43 posted on 03/30/2009 9:38:19 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

A very fair article, much appreciated. While not an endorsement of creation science, the author accurately notes that there are some legitimate questions being raised about evolution and acknowledges that there is an unscholarly disdain for well credentialed scientists who are asking the questions.


44 posted on 03/30/2009 9:45:01 PM PDT by Marie2 (The capacity for self-government is a moral quality. Only a moral people can be free.)
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To: Gordon Greene
“DANG! It’s time for me to go to bed and the fun’s not started yet!” [excerpt]
Ooops!

If I'd ah-known you was ah-waitin up fer im, I'd ah-not keep im busy on da otha thread!
45 posted on 03/30/2009 9:56:31 PM PDT by Fichori (The only bailout I'm interested in is the one where the entire Democrat party leaves the county)
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To: Inappropriate Laughter

Sounds like they got to him eventually. Sad.


46 posted on 03/31/2009 4:39:11 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: GodGunsGuts
"Evolution was back in the headlines this week as the Texas State Board of Education voted 13-2 to require students to "analyze and evaluate" major evolutionary concepts such as common ancestry, natural selection, and mutations, as well as adopting a critical thinking standard calling on students to "critique" and examine "all sides of scientific evidence." "

This is the way science should be taught. If there are legitimate scientific alternatives to a theory, present them. Note, though, that the requirement is specifically to present alternative scientific evidence. Sorry, but Genesis-based creationism arguments are still verboten.

47 posted on 03/31/2009 6:37:48 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: wendy1946

“The basic tenets of true religion appear to be inprinted upon most of us biologically which is the only reason that Islammic societies and “secular humanist” societies like Britain and Canada function at all. A psychopath like Dahmer is basically somebody on whom that imprint did not take. For those guys, it has to be written down somewhere, and it has to be written down accurately; the bible does that. Telling somebody like Dahmer that we all evolved from “lucky dust” is a formula for getting people killed.”

Is that part of the alternative scientific theory that you’d like to see presented in Texas schools?


48 posted on 03/31/2009 6:40:24 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: taxcontrol

“...woe be to those that expose the weakness of evolution theory.”

Not at all—the theory of evolution has changed considerably since it was first put forth. CD probably would not recognize it today.

Your beef is that there is resistance to replacing scientific theory with faith. There is no science in creationism, yet evolution and Christianity are perfectly compatible.

Fortunately, creationism is out of the classroom. It’s hard to believe that we’re still living the Scopes trial.


49 posted on 03/31/2009 6:44:55 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: GodGunsGuts
"I don’t know if you can feel it or not, but I think the HMS Creation and ID have finally got the Evos on the run."

Why don't you post the New Scientist cover as proof?

50 posted on 03/31/2009 6:46:35 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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