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Ronald Reagan tried to convert Mikhail Gorbachev to Christianity, aide claims
The Telegraph ^ | Adrian Blomfield

Posted on 04/04/2009 9:58:44 AM PDT by nickcarraway

A close aide to Ronald Reagan has claimed that the former US president tried to convert the Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev to Christianity.

A new biography that draws on recently declassified documents discloses a secret exchange between the two leaders that left at least one official present convinced that Reagan had tried to persuade his counterpart of God's existence.

The Rebellion of Ronald Reagan, by the former Los Angeles Times reporter James Mann, provides fresh insight into the former US president's religious convictions and the role they played in foreign policy. Reagan had apparently reached a conviction, which has since become well-documented, that Mr Gorbachev was a "closet Christian" after hearing the Soviet leader use the expression "God bless".

Advisers told Reagan not to read too much into the expression. Colin Powell, the national security adviser, told the president: "Don't see this as an expression of religious faith. It's almost idiomatic. He's not ready to get down on his knees for you."

But during their final summit meeting in Moscow in May, 1988, Reagan opened what appeared to be a pre-planned discussion about God.

Reagan took the opportunity he sought when Mr Gorbachev disclosed that he had been baptised into the Russian Orthodox faith by his mother but now had no religious belief.

He started by telling Mr Gorbachev a tale about a wounded Russian soldier during the Second World War who turned to God just before he died even though he had been raised an atheist.

Reagan later disclosed that his son was also an unbeliever. "The president concluded that there was one thing he had long yearned to do for his atheist son," according to the declassified minutes of the meeting.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Russia
KEYWORDS: christianity; coldwar; evangelism; gorbachev; presidents; reagan; reaganandgod

1 posted on 04/04/2009 9:58:44 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Preach it brother!


2 posted on 04/04/2009 10:04:07 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: nickcarraway

Which son? Ron?


3 posted on 04/04/2009 10:06:56 AM PDT by ChessExpert (Am I a socialist? I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, that you should ask, Barack Hussein Obama.)
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To: nickcarraway

President Reagan was no doubt referring to his namesake, Ron Jr., who is IMHO, a disgrace to the Reagan name.


4 posted on 04/04/2009 10:07:14 AM PDT by mkjessup (You're either with our Constitution, or you are with TKU ("The Kenyan Usurper"). CHOOSE!!!)
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To: nickcarraway

Somebody should try to convert Obama to christianity.


5 posted on 04/04/2009 10:09:04 AM PDT by exist
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To: nickcarraway
Colin Powell, the national security adviser, told the president: "Don't see this as an expression of religious faith. It's almost idiomatic. He's not ready to get down on his knees for you."

Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I think we'll see Ronald Reagan again, someday.

6 posted on 04/04/2009 10:09:10 AM PDT by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG 49) "Freedom's Fortress")
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To: nickcarraway

I can just visualize Zer0 doing this with Pooty-Poot.(s/o)


7 posted on 04/04/2009 10:09:36 AM PDT by Scanian (i)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: nickcarraway

So now we have a president so arrogant and stupid enough to do everything he can against a whole civilization? Our civilization is bigger than one ignorant man.


10 posted on 04/04/2009 10:21:09 AM PDT by BobS
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To: exist

No Christian could possibly take being called the “Messiah” so lightly (even in jest). That would be probably the worst possible insult for a true believer, but Obama almost seems to relish it.


11 posted on 04/04/2009 10:24:00 AM PDT by CitizenUSA
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To: CitizenUSA

You have to understand, that followers of Liberation theology do not believe in the divinity of Christ. They only believe in the historical existence of Christ as a leader and teacher.


12 posted on 04/04/2009 10:26:04 AM PDT by Eva (union motto - Aim for mediocrity, it's only fair.)
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To: JackRyanCIA

>> They will never convert.

Everyone will convert. The only question is, how long will it take? Every knee will bow — eventually.

SnakeDoc


13 posted on 04/04/2009 10:26:50 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor (God Bless Our Troops -- Especially Our Snipers)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: exist

That’s what Franklin Graham tried to do or at least was accused of.


15 posted on 04/04/2009 10:32:38 AM PDT by OpinionBug
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To: nickcarraway

What’s next? Obama trying to convert Putin to Islam?


16 posted on 04/04/2009 10:36:54 AM PDT by Gritty (These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own-GK Chesterton)
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To: nickcarraway
Hence

Green Cross International

which, of course, is in cahoots with

Global Green USA.

17 posted on 04/04/2009 10:37:17 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade, There are only two sides. Pick one.)
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To: JackRyanCIA

This is in the Michael Deaver book. Reagan came out of the private meeting with Gorbachev and whispered to Deaver, “He believes.”


18 posted on 04/04/2009 10:38:08 AM PDT by Winstons Julia
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To: nickcarraway

Well at least Reagan was saved. It’s very clear from Michael Reagan’s eulogy about his father. So much better than the eulogy from unsaved Ron Reagan. Amazing how the adopted son became born again yet the biological son did not. It must have caused pain and sadness in Mr. Reagan.


19 posted on 04/04/2009 10:42:21 AM PDT by deannadurbin
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To: nickcarraway

Reagan saw his destiny as the one to bring down Communism. He saw Communism as a great evil, from when he was a young boy, because it separated man from God.

When he called Russia the Evil Empire in 1983, the collective heads of the Left exploded, but it wasn’t just a game to him.

President Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul II worked in tandem to bring down the USSR. The result was that over 500 million people in Eastern Europe and Central Asia were freed.

The first 35 years of my life were spent in the shadow of a US-USSR nuclear showdown, that no one thought would end peacefully. God was merciful, and I believe he used Ronald Reagan as His point man to take the yoke of Russian rule from the backs of hundreds of millions of people.

The role of religion and belief in Christ was the foundation of Reagan’s core. He was true to that his entire political career.

The shame of it all is that 20 years to the day after he left office, we inaugurated a closet Muslim America hater to the Presidency.


20 posted on 04/04/2009 10:46:43 AM PDT by exit82 (The Obama Cabinet: There was more brainpower on Gilligan's Island.)
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To: Eva

I read somewhere that far more blacks (as a percentage) attend church regularly than whites. Yet, the illegitimacy rate for blacks is about 70%. I don’t know what they’re teaching in black churches, but it doesn’t seem to be having much affect on the attendees.

If, as you say, black liberation theology denies the divinity of Christ, they are simply not Christian. The Bible is quite clear on that.

Now I’m fine with people choosing to believe pretty much whatever they want, but it seriously peeves me when someone claims to be Christian when they’re not.


21 posted on 04/04/2009 10:46:53 AM PDT by CitizenUSA
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To: CitizenUSA; Eva
Yes, and regions of the country with high rates of church attendence also tend to have higher rates of violent crime than more secular regions of the country. Look at educational achievement, and you will see that CULTURE and IQ is a better indicator than "believin' in Jay-sus." You average public school in an upscale suburb of NY or DC has higher levels of achievement than almost any school in Mississippi.

I could go into the discussion on heredity and IQ among ethnic groups, but that would be dangerous...

22 posted on 04/04/2009 10:51:41 AM PDT by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: JackRyanCIA

Every knee will bow, but if never through faith in Christ prior to the first death, then the second death awaits after the Great White Throne Judgment.

2 problems with the article.

1) It’s a report from a person who was in the meeting who swore an oath of secrecy never to repeat the incident. Accordingly, which is more veritable, the oath or the report?

2) If Reagan was a believer, and I suspect he is, then he might witness to another about Christ, but that is different than trying to ‘convert’ an atheist into becoming a believer.

The conversion process is completely the work of God, not by any other human, other than what what God the Son has performed on the Cross.

From the unbeliever’s perspective, Christianity is simply identified as just another religion and those who witness about Christianity are simply trying to get somebody else to believe their views. From the believer’s viewpoint, such a position is not Christian. The Christian believer isn’t seeking for the unbeliever to be convinced by the believer of anything. He is attempting to communicate the gospel, the good news of what Christ is all about and why the acceptance of what God provides is so incredibly important.


23 posted on 04/04/2009 10:52:37 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Clemenza
Yes, and regions of the country with high rates of church attendence also tend to have higher rates of violent crime than more secular regions of the country.

That's an interesting observation.

It's interesting that believer and unbeliever alike perceive unrighteousness and injustice. That is a consequence of man being formed in God's image. He is perfectly holy and His Holiness is formed from Perfect Righteousness and Perfect Justice.

When a human is out of fellowship with God, we attempt to do things independently of Him. When we perceive unrighteousness, there may be a strong desire to demand justice. That might happen by direct retribution, such as in violent crime; or it might happen by legalism, appealing to legitimate authority to control the unrighteousness and administer justice.

Even this can be done through Christ or independent of Him. One can use the government as a panacea for a relationship with God, always seeking another authority as a counterfeit for what God provides, or one can recognize God has provided national governance as an institution of believer and unbeliever alike to justly handle unrighteous behavior with legitimate justice.

It's also interesting to note that a bloodless sacrifice was what Cain offered, but Abel's sacrifice was the more excellent sacrifice. The bloody sacrifice shows the violent damage to God-given life, rendered by sin or any unrighteous thing. Accordingly, lack of violence in administering justice is insufficient to adequately deal with criminal behavior, but the administration of justice must be performed by legitimate authority to be righteous.

25 posted on 04/04/2009 11:09:31 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: neodad

“I think we’ll see Ronald Reagan again, someday.”

I heard D.James Kennedy relay an incident he was involved in with Reagan, before he became the Republican nominee in 1979.

He (Kennedy) stated, that he was sitting across from Reagan in the living room of a friend, and he asked Reagan, “If you were to die tonight, and God were to ask you, ‘why should I let you into my Heaven?’ how would you respond?”

Kennedy then said Reagan bowed his head to his chest and closed his eyes. He remained in that position so long that Kennedy thought there was something wrong with him (and wondered if he should get help!). Finally, Ronald Reagan looked Dr. Kennedy square in the eye and, as his answer, quoted:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him will not perish but have everlasting life.”

See Ronald Reagan again someday? As Sarah would say, “YOU BETCHA!”


26 posted on 04/04/2009 11:11:32 AM PDT by GWMcClintock ("When the foundations are being destroyed, what can the righteous do?" Ps. 11:3)
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To: nickcarraway

RR is so cool.


27 posted on 04/04/2009 11:14:43 AM PDT by gitmo (History books will read that Lincoln freed the slaves and Obama enslaved the free.)
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To: JackRyanCIA
“Somebody should try to convert Obama to Christianity.”

Obam Hussein giving the deep head and bended-knee bow of submission (Islam) before King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia

28 posted on 04/04/2009 11:23:35 AM PDT by mjp (Live & let live. I don't want to live in Mexico, Marxico, or Muslimico. Statism & high taxes suck)
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To: nickcarraway

This is old news.


29 posted on 04/04/2009 11:25:54 AM PDT by Sir Gawain ("Let every man make known what kind of government would command his respect")
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To: nickcarraway

Gorby at Reagan's Casket

30 posted on 04/04/2009 11:41:11 AM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: nickcarraway

Reagan was GREAT. God, we need him now.


31 posted on 04/04/2009 2:00:21 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: nickcarraway

God bless Ronald Reagan.


32 posted on 04/04/2009 2:39:27 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all. -- Texas Eagle)
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To: nickcarraway
. Colin Powell, the national security adviser, told the president: "Don't see this as an expression of religious faith. It's almost idiomatic. He's not ready to get down on his knees for you."

Typical.

Here's what self-admitted atheist Penn Jillette says about Christians and proselytizing.

Penn Says: Respect for Christians

33 posted on 04/04/2009 2:44:06 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all. -- Texas Eagle)
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To: nickcarraway
Reagan had apparently reached a conviction, which has since become well-documented, that Mr Gorbachev was a "closet Christian" after hearing the Soviet leader use the expression "God bless".

Advisers told Reagan not to read too much into the expression.

It is symptomatic of Reagan's critics that they ascribe his conviction to the dropping of a single expression. What a pity we aren't able to hear Reagan's side of it.

Of course communists have religious awakenings - Reagan's contemporary Whittaker Chambers, for one. Gorbachev was, in fact, baptised in the Orthodox Church as a child. A quick check of his Wikipedia bio brought this up:

On 19 March 2008, during a surprise visit to pray at the tomb of Saint Francis in Assisi, Italy, Gorbachev made an announcement which has been interpreted to the effect that he was a Christian. Gorbachev stated that "St Francis is, for me, the alter Christus, the other Christ. His story fascinates me and has played a fundamental role in my life." He added, "It was through St Francis that I arrived at the Church, so it was important that I came to visit his tomb.

Maybe poor, old senile Ronny wasn't so dumb after all.

34 posted on 04/04/2009 3:04:41 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: nickcarraway
When what used to be Radio Moscow broadcasts church services and a program “Christian Voices from Moscow”; and when a Russian film company makes a stop-motion film on the life of Christ, I rejoice. Russia is our political rival, but the Body of Christ is universal.
35 posted on 04/04/2009 3:47:21 PM PDT by GAB-1955
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To: nickcarraway

Gorby’s reply “Almost, comrade, thou persuadest me to be a Christian”


36 posted on 04/04/2009 4:10:47 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: CitizenUSA

“Yet, the illegitimacy rate for blacks is about 70%.”

Early in the 20th century the black illegitimacy rate was about the same as for whites. Federal government welfare - the war on poverty, aid to families with dependent children (AFDC), etc. - encouraged illegitimacy. Aid was given to unwed mothers that would not have been given to married mothers. More children - more aid. Financial incentives mean more to poor people than to the middle class. Since poor people are a greater percentage of the black population than the white population, the impact was greater (as a percentage), and more visible, for blacks.

In its effects, the so called war on poverty was actually a war on the black family.


37 posted on 04/04/2009 6:24:47 PM PDT by ChessExpert (Am I a socialist? I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, that you should ask, Barack Hussein Obama.)
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To: nickcarraway

I’m sure that a godless commie like Gorbachev figured if there was a God, he’d surely be on Reagan’s side.


38 posted on 04/05/2009 1:55:37 PM PDT by Senator Goldwater
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