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Knights Templar hid the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican
Times Online ^ | 04/05/2009 | Richard Owen

Posted on 04/05/2009 12:20:47 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan

Medieval knights hid and secretly venerated The Holy Shroud of Turin for more than 100 years after the Crusades, the Vatican said today in an announcement that appeared to solve the mystery of the relic’s missing years.

The Knights Templar, an order which was suppressed and disbanded for alleged heresy, took care of the linen cloth, which bears the image of a man with a beard, long hair and the wounds of crucifixion, according to Vatican researchers.

The Shroud, which is kept in the royal chapel of Turin Cathedral, has long been revered as the shroud in which Jesus was buried, although the image only appeared clearly in 1898 when a photographer developed a negative.

Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century. Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Dr Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.

However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access”. There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ggg; godsgravesglyphs; knightstemplar; religion; shroud; shroudofturin; vatican
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1 posted on 04/05/2009 12:20:48 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
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To: BuckeyeTexan; Swordmaker

Ping to Swordmaker. IIRC, you are a student of the shroud?


2 posted on 04/05/2009 12:24:12 PM PDT by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping


3 posted on 04/05/2009 12:24:32 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Bump...


4 posted on 04/05/2009 12:28:27 PM PDT by tubebender
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To: BuckeyeTexan

of course carbon-dating is more conclusive then actual documentation...


5 posted on 04/05/2009 12:29:14 PM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: Old Sarge

Knights Templar PING!


6 posted on 04/05/2009 12:32:55 PM PDT by MS.BEHAVIN (Women who behave rarely make history)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
I do believe that a “Papal Apology” is in order.

The King of France trumped up charges against the Knights Templar, to get out of his debts.

That some “sins” were discovered among the Knights? Really? Who would NOT “admit” to sinful behavior during torture?

The Pope was NOT in charge of arresting the Templar Knights, and the Pope, at the time, did not find that the Knights were guilty of heresy.

Still, they way they were treated was just wrong, and the Church, at the time, should have done more.

“Friday the 13th” is the day the Templars were first arrested, by the King of France.

7 posted on 04/05/2009 12:34:33 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Always Right; BuckeyeTexan; Quix

You said — of course carbon-dating is more conclusive then actual documentation...

Here’s what one paragraph said in the article...


Radiocarbon dating tests on the Turin Shroud in 1988 indicated that it was a medieval fake. However this had been challenged on the grounds that the dated sample was taken from an area of the shroud mended after a fire in the Middle Ages and not a part of the original cloth.


I’ve seen that theory presented elsewhere, too...


8 posted on 04/05/2009 12:35:54 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: BuckeyeTexan

It was my understanding that the Knights Templar were the keepers of the Holy Grail.


9 posted on 04/05/2009 12:36:03 PM PDT by CapnJack
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To: Kansas58

Good info!


10 posted on 04/05/2009 12:36:07 PM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: uglybiker

Demolet does it again.


11 posted on 04/05/2009 12:36:41 PM PDT by patton (I hope that they fight to the death and both sides win.)
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To: uglybiker

ping


12 posted on 04/05/2009 12:38:21 PM PDT by Delta 21 (If you cant tell if I'm being sarcastic...maybe I'm not.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Funny, he doesn't look Jewish.

13 posted on 04/05/2009 12:38:57 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Dr. Ursus
Think of the King of France as: ACORN or Obama

Think of the Templars as: Banks

14 posted on 04/05/2009 12:39:18 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Myself having a packrat mentality, I can't imagine anyone throwing away or deliberately destroying the Shroud. But there are plenty of non believers who would do it.
15 posted on 04/05/2009 12:39:33 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: Delta 21

Beat ya. ;)


16 posted on 04/05/2009 12:40:14 PM PDT by patton (I hope that they fight to the death and both sides win.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Where was the shroud from 1-1204?


17 posted on 04/05/2009 12:41:26 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport and school records.)
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To: patton

Im way slow on the draw. :(


18 posted on 04/05/2009 12:42:34 PM PDT by Delta 21 (If you cant tell if I'm being sarcastic...maybe I'm not.)
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To: Kansas58

I really hope the person doing the census at my door doesn’t
pick RED out of the closet that day!


19 posted on 04/05/2009 12:42:42 PM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: CapnJack

Wonder where that is.


20 posted on 04/05/2009 12:43:03 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: BroJoeK
Funny, he doesn't look Jewish.

Funny, he's got the marks of a phylactery on his forehead. That looks distinctly Jewish.
21 posted on 04/05/2009 12:45:39 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: nufsed
Where was the shroud from 1-1204?

You mean "from ~33 to 1204"? In Constantinople in the care of the Eastern Church?
22 posted on 04/05/2009 12:48:33 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
So in 33 the shroud was transported to Constantinople?

Source?

23 posted on 04/05/2009 12:50:06 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport and school records.)
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To: Interesting Times

Ping


24 posted on 04/05/2009 12:50:55 PM PDT by zot
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To: Kansas58
Think of the Templars as: Bank

Think that the king will kill hundreds of bankers?

25 posted on 04/05/2009 12:51:06 PM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: aruanan

Is that the little prayer box?


26 posted on 04/05/2009 12:51:24 PM PDT by patton (I hope that they fight to the death and both sides win.)
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To: nufsed

Constantinople? I really don’t know much about the shroud.


27 posted on 04/05/2009 12:52:59 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
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To: fatima
Probably in the same place as the ...
Ark of the Covenant.

You know, that large gov’t warehouse in the desert west.

28 posted on 04/05/2009 12:55:51 PM PDT by CapnJack
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To: nufsed
So in 33 the shroud was transported to Constantinople? Source?

You're overlooking the obvious. If the shroud dates from the first century, it wasn't anywhere before ~33AD
29 posted on 04/05/2009 1:00:31 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: CapnJack

It’s supposed to be in Axum Ethiopia if you believe the Ethiopian Orthodox Church or Graham Hancock (Sign and the Seal). Hancock’s book is a good read and makes a pretty good case.


30 posted on 04/05/2009 1:00:55 PM PDT by airedale ( XZ)
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To: aruanan

You’re misreading AND avoiding the question.


31 posted on 04/05/2009 1:01:27 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport and school records.)
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To: mountainlion
He might as well kill the bankers, he whipped up angry mobs against AIG, even though OBAMA signed a law protecting the contractual bonuses!
Then, Obama told the bankers, “I am the only thing between you and the pitchforks” -—
Then, Obama looks the other way when his Dem buddies at Freddie and Fannie get THEIR bonuses!

History repeats itself!

Also, the Templars were the bankers AND the feudal defenders of Christianity against Islam.

And the French King “went for the gold” and killed off the Templars.

Just like Obama is cutting our military to “spread the wealth around”.

32 posted on 04/05/2009 1:02:23 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: CapnJack; fatima
Actually, the strongest tradition for the location of the Ark of the Covenant is a town in Ethiopia along the Nile called Oxham (I'm not sure how it's spelled). It hasn't been seen in almost 2,000 years, but that's the last place it was seen and the place that claims it. The Grail supposedly was kept under the temple in Jerusalem and then disappeared at some point in the middle ages. There are a number of rumors. What's true and what's not...God knows.
33 posted on 04/05/2009 1:03:30 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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To: Alamo-Girl; albee; AnalogReigns; AnAmericanMother; Angelas; AniGrrl; annalex; annyokie; ...
Shroud of Turin WAS held by the Knights Templar after the Fourth Crusade according to documentation found in the Vatican Archives ... PING!

If you want on or off the Shroud of Turin Ping List, Freepmail me.


34 posted on 04/05/2009 1:04:14 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Discovery Channel or History Channel did a special a few years back on the Shroud of Turin. Apparently, for political reasons and fear of power of the Knights Templar brought their downfall by the King & the Pope. And yes, the carbon dating of the Shroud indicated that it was of later date, and therefore a fake. The sample taken was just a few threads from a corner. I seriously doubt that any samples will ever be taken again. And the story will grow.


35 posted on 04/05/2009 1:08:53 PM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: Kansas58
Then, Obama told the bankers, “I am the only thing between you and the pitchforks”

Never mind that the majority of us live in cities and pitchforks are not exactly common in garages anymore.

But, to the point of the post - yes, the Templars were framed, more or less, in a political move and it should not be surprising to anyone who knows history of that time halfway decently that they would have brought the Shroud from Constantinople. It's as plausible as anything else.

36 posted on 04/05/2009 1:09:06 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: SonOfPyrodex
LOL. They forgot to get the stainout.

You made it 0 for 3, but with humor.

38 posted on 04/05/2009 1:12:01 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport and school records.)
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To: aruanan; nufsed

First century is 0-99 not 100-199; example, 19th century is 1800-1899, 20th century 1900-1999 and so on.


39 posted on 04/05/2009 1:12:12 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: 1066AD

I remember now. The year 0. Wasn’t that when nothing happened?


40 posted on 04/05/2009 1:13:09 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport and school records.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Like everything else worth saving in this world, it’ll wind up in the filthy hands of the islamists, eventually.


41 posted on 04/05/2009 1:13:23 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (American Revolution II -- overdue.)
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To: Always Right
of course carbon-dating is more conclusive then actual documentation...

Except when the Carbon Dating that was done in 1988 has been conclusive proved—through both chemical, statistical, and physical analysis published in peer-reviewed journals and independently confirmed—to have been done on samples taken from a PATCHED area of the Shroud where the material is MIXTURE of original Linen and 16th Century Cotton added to the original material to repair damage.

The percentage of polluting Cotton varied between 40% and 60% of the tested sample, accounting for the previously inexplicable statistical variation in the 1988 test results that far exceeded—a spread of over 155 years—the expectations of the degree of confidence had the sub-samples all clipped from the same master sample been homogenous. Once it was found they were NOT homogenous, and not exemplar of the main body of the Shroud, the Carbon Dating done in 1988 was falsified.

42 posted on 04/05/2009 1:14:59 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Horsehockeys.
43 posted on 04/05/2009 1:16:48 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit)
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To: Swordmaker
I was being facetious.
44 posted on 04/05/2009 1:18:25 PM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: nufsed

It didn’t exist until 33 AD and was in Constitnople until 1204.


45 posted on 04/05/2009 1:19:19 PM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners.)
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To: Desdemona

Wonder if the church knows.


46 posted on 04/05/2009 1:21:07 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: 1066AD
First century is 0-99 not 100-199; example, 19th century is 1800-1899, 20th century 1900-1999 and so on.

There is no year 0. The first year of the first 100 years was year 1, not year 0. The first century's years are 1 through 100. The second century begins at the beginning of the first year of the second century 101, and so on. Thought you would have learned this stuff at the turn of the Third Millennium which took place on January 1, 2001, the first year of the new millennium.
47 posted on 04/05/2009 1:21:11 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: NTHockey

Unresponsive to my question. Some detail about how it got to Constantnople in 33 and how you know it was there for nearly 1200 years.


48 posted on 04/05/2009 1:24:19 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport and school records.)
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To: BroJoeK

Maybe he takes after his Father’s side of the family....:)


49 posted on 04/05/2009 1:24:34 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.......)
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To: aruanan
"Funny, he's got the marks of a phylactery on his forehead. That looks distinctly Jewish."

Well, I learn a new word every day. Thanks.

Phylactery: "Judaism. Either of two small leather boxes, each containing strips of parchment inscribed with quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures, one of which is strapped to the forehead and the other to the left arm; traditionally worn by Jewish men during morning worship, except on the Sabbath and holidays."

Wikipedia on Teffilin / phylacteries

Wikipedia quotes Old Testament verses and says ancient phylacteries were found at Qumran, so I'll take that as being plenty ancient enough.

Still, you'd suppose the New Testament would mention such a matter, especially as it carefully points out the dramatic crown of thorns, blood from which is said to appear on the Shroud of Turin.

50 posted on 04/05/2009 1:24:35 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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