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U.S. Visa Limits Hit Indian Workers
Washington Post ^ | April 6 2009 | Emily Wax

Posted on 04/06/2009 3:59:02 AM PDT by angkor

MUMBAI -- With his master's degree in electrical engineering at North Carolina State University almost complete, Ravi, 24, received a promising job offer from a technology firm. He called his parents back in India, happy that he was on track for an H-1B work visa, which is seen as a steppingstone to U.S. citizenship.

But just before Thanksgiving, Ravi got a call from his future employer.

"They told me that because of the economic downturn they couldn't hire me in anticipation of tougher times ahead. They were laying off other American employees, and cutting my job would be a proactive measure," said Ravi, who gave only his first name because he did not want his job prospects affected. "I do feel bad for anyone losing a job, whether it's an American or an H-1B foreign worker. But for foreign students, if we don't get a job, we have to go back to our home countries. When I talk to my parents, they tell me not to worry, to just come home. [snip]"

As the U.S. economy slows, highly skilled foreign professionals seeking work under various visa programs are finding it harder to get jobs. President Obama's stimulus package stops U.S. companies, largely in banking and financial services, that take federal bailout money from hiring H-1B visa holders for two years if they have laid off American workers in the previous six months. The administration has vowed to tighten restrictions and step up oversight of all work visa applications.

The H-1B program brings in about 85,000 skilled foreign workers every year, ostensibly to fill jobs that U.S. workers cannot or will not do. But some companies in the science and technology fields, afraid of a backlash over hiring foreign professionals rather than American ones, are rescinding job offers.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: h1b; immigration; india
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Too much to say about this, but it's too early.

The sense of entitlement that Indians have toward American visas and citizenship is staggering.

And the H1B visa program is greatly abused by employers largely to the benefit of Indian tech workers. I have seen this personally, there are just too many stories to recount. I'd be happy if H1B visas were shut down forever.

Read the article for some choice quotes, even Vermont socialist Bernie Sanders is in there, with a barbed comment by the Post reporter.

1 posted on 04/06/2009 3:59:04 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor

The quality of H1-B workers has dropped dramatically too, once we scraped the cream of the crop- now we get tose who feel ‘entitled’ to an american job.

Just like anyone else on an entitlement program, they don’t feel the need to actually do anything.

H1-B are killing amercian tech workers


2 posted on 04/06/2009 4:04:38 AM PDT by Mr. K (physically unable to proofreed (<---oops))
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To: angkor

Here we allow any freak show who claims harassment in their own country to come here. Yet if you are say a valuable immigrant like say a guy with a master’s degree in electrical engineering?
Nahhhh, we’re saving those slots for other freaks shows.
Educated and valuable and a contributing member of society need not apply.
Cuban crazies and killers just step on our soil.
Mexican, Guats and Hondurans uneducated step right this way


3 posted on 04/06/2009 4:07:01 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Joe Boucher
Mexican, Guats and Hondurans uneducated step right this way

ACORN targets

4 posted on 04/06/2009 4:09:06 AM PDT by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: angkor
America for Americans... the Indians are good people and are lucky to have gotten so many of their brothers and sisters into our nation. The time is now to shut the door until grownups can rewrite our immigration laws and limit our immigration to maintain our way of life. We are not the repository for the World's losers... hate to be that way but we just need to be like every other nation in the World... protect our own FIRST!

LLS

5 posted on 04/06/2009 4:10:08 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (hussein will NEVER be my President... NEVER!!!)
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To: angkor
The sense of entitlement that Indians have toward American visas and citizenship is staggering.

Here's a thought - eliminate the program.

And replace it with a fast-track to citizenship for individuals with advanced degrees earned either oversees or a simple undergrad degree earned here in the states.

These people are an asset. Make them take an oath of allegiance, integrate them (Indians integrate pretty well and are fantastic workers), and put them to work.

This might surprise you, but the wealthiest ethnic demo in the states isn't Jews - it's Indians (dot, not feather).

6 posted on 04/06/2009 4:10:15 AM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: angkor

I’d like to see them do away with the program. People say we don’t have high quality US workers, but that’s not the issue. Employers take advantage of lower wages and the fact that a H1B visa holder can’t change jobs if someone offers a high salary elsewhere.

I know one young man who’s looking for an engineering internship for the summer (he’s at GATech)...many programs are cancelling their summer internship programs because of the slowdown. My kid’s about to finish his master’s and jobs are few and far between (compared to last year this time)...so why not give jobs to US citizens.


7 posted on 04/06/2009 4:12:59 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: Mr. K

>>H1-B are killing amercian tech workers

Quite simply, Indian developers are the worst. If I never seee another one, that would be fine with me.

I have been working with them for over 15 years and have yet to see a single one that could write code that is sustainable or maintainable. It is always crap and it includes tons of “hard coding” that will need rewriting if the smallest thing changes.

Pull all H1-Bs, if you ask me.


8 posted on 04/06/2009 4:18:59 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks.)
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To: Doogle

Future DemocRAT voters.


9 posted on 04/06/2009 4:22:26 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Mr. K

>>>> The quality of H1-B workers has dropped dramatically too, once we scraped the cream of the crop <<<<<<

An Indian tech guy (long a U.S. citizen) has used those exact words with me: “30 years ago the cream of the crop came to America.”


10 posted on 04/06/2009 4:29:37 AM PDT by angkor
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To: Joe Boucher

>>>>> Yet if you are say a valuable immigrant like say a guy with a master’s degree in electrical engineering? <<<<

Sorry, no cigar.

I’ve personally seen an entire tech team fired “according to salary level.”

Surprise surprise, the only techs left standing were the Indian H1B hires.

This company then turned around to bid on Dept. Of Defense contracts.


11 posted on 04/06/2009 4:34:14 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor

The U.S. is still getting the cream of the crop of Indian immigrants. It’s just that the demographic pyramid wasn’t quite shaped as had been expected.


12 posted on 04/06/2009 4:37:00 AM PDT by cmdjing
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To: angkor
Nations such as Canada, Singapore and Australia have created "fast-track" immigration policies and incentives to attract foreign professionals.

So, seems obvious to me that they need to look for jobs in Canada, Singapore & Australia.

13 posted on 04/06/2009 4:41:24 AM PDT by elli1
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To: angkor

If I’m reading the story correctly, ol’ Ravi was caught up in the economic downturn and not any limit on H-1Bs. The position he was being considered for was eliminated and not filled by another. Hard times are hard times for all, there isn’t any racial factor in this.


14 posted on 04/06/2009 4:41:50 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: mbraynard

>>>>> This might surprise you, but the wealthiest ethnic demo in the states isn’t Jews - it’s Indians (dot, not feather). <<<<<<<<

It doesn’t surprise me one single iota.

I’ve personally known at least two Indian tech “entrepreneurs” whose businesses were made possible by one and only one thing: cheap Indian labor.

It was through a combination of (a) outsourcing client work back to India, and (b) getting more H1B hires into America. Once guy built his entire tech services company in NYC on H1B Indian tech labor, which he then sold for a couple $million$. He was NOT an American citizen, but he knew how to pump that H1B system.

Oh, he did have that “advanced degree”, a PhD from some Indian university.

If you look underneath the covers you will find that many many Indian-run or Indian-managed companies in America are entirely based on obtaining even more cheap Indian tech labor. Or outsourcing.

I’ve seen the Indian scam up close and personal, more than once, and it ain’t pretty.


15 posted on 04/06/2009 4:43:04 AM PDT by angkor
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To: dawn53

>>>> I’d like to see them do away with the program. People say we don’t have high quality US workers, but that’s not the issue. <<<<<<

Microsoft is the biggest immigration lobbyist in Washington DC, and it is entirely for H1B labor, and that is a fact.

Check it out on www.opensecrets.org under “lobbyists.”


16 posted on 04/06/2009 4:44:47 AM PDT by angkor
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To: freedumb2003; Mr. K

>>>>> Quite simply, Indian developers are the worst. If I never seee another one, that would be fine with me. <<<<<<

Some are OK, but I’ve worked with some Indians who are the laziest good-for-nothings I’ve ever encountered.

And that’s just for starters!


17 posted on 04/06/2009 4:46:07 AM PDT by angkor
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To: Joe Boucher; Doogle

>>>>> Future DemocRAT voters. <<<<<<

Correction: CURRENT DemocRAT voters.

Indians are (were) huge supporters of Zer0, financially and at the voting booth.

Of course now they’re deeply embarrassed, and even angry when it’s pointed out that they voted for him, and were running around giddy on Nov 5th.


18 posted on 04/06/2009 4:48:33 AM PDT by angkor
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To: cmdjing

>>>>> The U.S. is still getting the cream of the crop of Indian immigrants. <<<<<<<

Simply not true.

Can’t believe you’d say such a thing.


19 posted on 04/06/2009 4:50:03 AM PDT by angkor
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To: Non-Sequitur

>>>>>> Hard times are hard times for all, there isn’t any racial factor in this. <<<<<<<

Yes, but playing the race card is a time-honored custom in modern America.


20 posted on 04/06/2009 4:52:19 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor
Sounds like you have knowledge in this area. My question concerns the availability of American hi-tech workers to fill these positions. Are there enough Americans qualified to fill these spots and if so why are these visas being given out at all? My point being that I can understand visas if we have a shortage of qualified workers in given areas but not at the expense of available American workers.
21 posted on 04/06/2009 4:53:54 AM PDT by RU88 (The false messiah can not change water into wine any more than he can get unity from diversity.)
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To: angkor

I have had the pleasure of hiring two H1B candidates. One from India and the other from Ghana. They were great employees, courteous, thoughtful and absolutely brilliant.

I paid them what I would have paid anyone else with same skill sets. Overall, it was a great experience and I would do it again in a minute.

Neither gentlemen wanted to become American citizens, they were proud of their own countries and of their families, friends, and countrymen. Both, went back home after a couple years to help bring prosperity to their homelands. Not a bad thing at all if you really stop and think about it.

Note of interest; the fellow from Ghana related to me that his country had been and was still transitioning itself from socialist to a free market economy and that it was good for the people. Indeed, last I heard (within past month) Ghana was still a growing economy...


22 posted on 04/06/2009 4:53:55 AM PDT by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: Wpin

>>>>> I have had the pleasure of hiring two H1B candidates. <<<<<<<

That’s nice.

But it’s generally not the individual H1B hires who are a problem.

The problem most definitely is the H1B system itself, which is greatly and profitably abused to the expense of the American worker, and the people (both Indians and Americans) who abuse it.

You need to watch this video, and then come back and tell us that the H1B system isn’t perverted and bordering on the criminal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

“Immigration attorneys from Cohen & Grigsby explain how they assist employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any qualified [American] applicants, “


23 posted on 04/06/2009 5:00:42 AM PDT by angkor
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To: RU88

>>>> why are these visas being given out at all? <<<<<<

Because if you need 20 programmers, it is much cheaper to hire Indians at $50K than Americans at $75K (and those are true differentials that you’ll find on the H1B applications that are posted on the Internet).

20 x $50,000 = $1,000,000
20 x $75,000 = $1,500,000


24 posted on 04/06/2009 5:04:15 AM PDT by angkor
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To: mbraynard
Here's a thought - eliminate the program.

And replace it with a fast-track to citizenship for individuals with advanced degrees earned either oversees or a simple undergrad degree earned here in the states.

Before we do this we must stifle "chain immigration".

I agree that the H1B program should be eliminated, if for no other reason the fact that it constitutes a form of indentured servitude and violates the 13th amendment. The L1 visa restriction need to be tightened up as well.

Doing what you propose would enable Indian and other immigrant workers to sell their services at market prices in the workforce. This would level the playing field for American workers who are now at a competitive disadvantage in our own country. I don't mind competing with foreigners but I do object to companies owning them.

25 posted on 04/06/2009 5:04:53 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF (Be There >>> http://www.secondamendmentmarch.com)
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To: angkor
Boo Hoo. Sorry Indians, this well has run dry.

Try learning to speak coherent English while you're waiting.

26 posted on 04/06/2009 5:05:09 AM PDT by wolfcreek (There is no 2 party system only arrogant Pols and their handlers)
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To: freedumb2003

Interesting my experience is the exact opposite. And they are much nicer guys.


27 posted on 04/06/2009 5:07:11 AM PDT by cubsfanconswoman (OH MY GOD THE BEARS HAVE A QB!)
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To: wolfcreek

You are like the caller at a call center I managed a few years ago who had no clue where he was and called for driving directions and being an abusive subhuman he blasted the person handling the call saying she had no clue and was a worthless Indian dothead. FOr the information of the abusive subhuman he was telling us where he was for the directions and he was close enough to where if we looked out the window we could see his worthless abusive self.


28 posted on 04/06/2009 5:11:42 AM PDT by cubsfanconswoman (OH MY GOD THE BEARS HAVE A QB!)
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To: angkor

I am wondering what possible governmental program does not have negatives. I would agree with you that large companies in tandem with the federal government abuse the system. But, you could say that about anything...

The hiring, in general of H1B individuals is a boost to our economy, not a drain. Competition is good, these are not words...they are fact. Your argument is similar to the Unions arguments...do you really think America is America when we prohibit freedom? Are we better off by supporting inefficiency such as the auto industries? Well, I guess we all will learn the truth behind the cliche “you get what you pay for...”


29 posted on 04/06/2009 5:17:38 AM PDT by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: cubsfanconswoman; freedumb2003

Just for the record, some H1B workers are good, some aren’t. Some are good guys, some aren’t.

Just like American workers.

But the H1B system and those who abuse it needs to be stopped.


30 posted on 04/06/2009 5:19:27 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor

“Because if you need 20 programmers, it is much cheaper to hire Indians at $50K than Americans at $75K (and those are true differentials that you’ll find on the H1B applications that are posted on the Internet).

20 x $50,000 = $1,000,000
20 x $75,000 = $1,500,000”

And this is a bad thing why???


31 posted on 04/06/2009 5:21:50 AM PDT by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: spectre; truthkeeper; processing please hold; antceecee; navymom1; jaredt112; Edgerunner; ...

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32 posted on 04/06/2009 5:43:22 AM PDT by bcsco (I'm a Constitution defender!)
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To: cubsfanconswoman
No, what I am is an American who's tired of getting third world tech assistance, tired of pressing *one* for Spanish, tired of wasting valuble work time trying to understand and tired of PC assholes who enjoy rubbing it in.

I said nothing *sub-human* or abusive.

33 posted on 04/06/2009 5:49:53 AM PDT by wolfcreek (There is no 2 party system only arrogant Pols and their handlers)
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To: angkor

I’ve worked with Indian tech workers for many years. Early on they truely were the cream of the crop and their abilities and willingness to work paved the way for thousands upon thousands of their countrymen.

Here’s my problem. I was working for a Fortune 400 company. They needed to adjust the bottom line. So they laied off all the programmers and analysts for their mainframe solutions and hired an Indian “partner” (one that is now famous because its financial assets proved to be bogus). The Indian partner would rotate a team of programmers in to write the code for a software update and then rotate the team out before the code went live. When the update blew up (as it did every single time), the original coders were back in India and the few legacy employees were left trying to fix the code live. After awhile they quit trying to fix it and just rolled it back. After a year and a half, most of the software updates had NOT happened and all of the legacy employees had quit. Now said company is desparately trying to hire American workers again (preferably those people they laid off that have knowledge of their systems).

While hiring the Indian partern adjusted the bottom line for a couple of quarters, ultimately it cost the company money and customers because they were not able to meet deadlines to make software updates to support new products.

The cream of the crop was certainly not available for that project.


34 posted on 04/06/2009 5:51:39 AM PDT by Roses0508
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To: Doogle

Masters degrees in Electrical Engineering don’t grow on trees. He was only doing the work that Americans are unwilling or unable to do.


35 posted on 04/06/2009 5:54:43 AM PDT by x_plus_one ("Salvation comes about though change in individual lives, not through the ending of unjust society")
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To: dawn53

Back in the late 1980’s my summer internship as an EE at Westinghouse was cancelled for economic reasons. I found out two days before my final exams, at which point it was too late to get an internship with another company. I spent that summer waiting tables.


36 posted on 04/06/2009 6:11:39 AM PDT by gieriscm (07 FFL / 02 SOT - www.extremefirepower.com)
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To: gieriscm

Luckily, the GATech student has parents who own a business where he can work for the summer. It won’t be in his field, but it’s work.

My kid has one semester left and could finish up his Master’s w/night classes in the fall, so he was hoping to find a “real” job now, even though he graduates in Dec. But if he doesn’t find a job, he does have some internship oppertunities open to him. Pay’s not great, but something is better than nothing.


37 posted on 04/06/2009 6:17:37 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: x_plus_one
He was only doing the work that Americans are unwilling or unable to do.

You are a fool. Go back and read post #7. There are plenty of educated Americans who want these jobs and are willing to do them.

The H1B program is nothing more than a cheap labor scam.
38 posted on 04/06/2009 6:19:13 AM PDT by TSgt (Extreme vitriol and rancorous replies served daily. - Mike W USAF)
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To: angkor
Interesting my experience is the exact opposite. And they are much nicer guys.

Our two best senior DBAs where H1B's. We had one that was kind of a dud as well. Happens.

We paid them at the same rate that we paid similar US employees.

The difference may be that these two guys were planning to stay here and working on their citizenship. As one guy said, "Home is home, but after living here (US) for 5-10 years it's only nice to go back and visit."

39 posted on 04/06/2009 6:20:53 AM PDT by OpeEdMunkey (We seem to have reached a critical mass of stupid people.)
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To: angkor
I've outsourced some tasks to India. I don't see a particular problem with it. Sometimes it has worked well (data entry) but for more complex tasks, it has been a bad idea.

I don't particularly thing that Indians who are here are wealthy because they use cheap Indian labor. It's probably because the ones that are here all gravitate towards successful professions (doctors, engineers, etc.) and don't really get caught in the American subculture of sex/drugs/rocknroll/welfare.

40 posted on 04/06/2009 6:27:51 AM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: wolfcreek
No, what I am is an American who's tired of getting third world tech assistance

I've had wildly divergent experiences with two major IT players who had outsourced their help desk to India. I'll name them offline if you want.

One was technically knowledgeable about the product, could communicate effectively, and was well run with the appropriate ticket escalation and management. Probably the best support I've dealt with in 25 years of the IT biz.

The other was a complete disaster. Forget about follow up and problem management. When I'm telling the help desk how things in the application actually function I know I'm in trouble.

41 posted on 04/06/2009 6:29:26 AM PDT by OpeEdMunkey (We seem to have reached a critical mass of stupid people.)
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To: angkor

Many of those contracts require citizens only.


42 posted on 04/06/2009 6:32:21 AM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: MikeWUSAF
The H1B program is nothing more than a cheap labor scam.

And I'm not even sure of this anymore. Most of the ones that I know are competing with "native Americans" (hey—I was born here) at the same wage rate.

But right now with jobs going in the toilet right and left it's time to suspend the H1B program. Employ Americans first.

43 posted on 04/06/2009 6:34:40 AM PDT by OpeEdMunkey (We seem to have reached a critical mass of stupid people.)
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To: x_plus_one
Masters degrees in Electrical Engineering don’t grow on trees. He was only doing the work that Americans are unwilling or unable to do.

As an Electrical Engineer born raised in America I couldn't agree more! You are a Great American, I am so glad some people are actually telling it like it is. I will probably voluntarily separate so a hard working Indian H1-B can have my job. As an unemployed homeless person can I live in your backyard? You see how much respect Engineers get in the US.

44 posted on 04/06/2009 6:44:56 AM PDT by central_va (Co. C, 15th Va., Patrick Henry Rifles-The boys of Hanover Co.)
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To: MikeWUSAF

Man you were nice to him. He is a “Great” American. So patriotic and supportive of his fellow Americans he is.


45 posted on 04/06/2009 6:47:36 AM PDT by central_va (Co. C, 15th Va., Patrick Henry Rifles-The boys of Hanover Co.)
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To: angkor

Liberals are finding out the Hindus aren’t the politically correct lapdogs they had them pegged as, so now they don’t want them...


46 posted on 04/06/2009 6:49:39 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
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To: angkor

Yeah you are right,
I’d rather aids sufferers from Haiti be allowed in as opposed to say anyone with anything to contribute.


47 posted on 04/06/2009 7:06:24 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: central_va
As an electrical engineer, I couldn't agree more. And yes, you can have the garage. Our small manufacturing business still has the doors open and manages to support 6 employees.

We can't find enough home grown talent to take engineering classes at our local university. The wage compression deters the best and brightest - they can make more in law or sales than in engineering...

48 posted on 04/06/2009 9:53:18 AM PDT by x_plus_one ("Salvation comes about though change in individual lives, not through the ending of unjust society")
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To: cubsfanconswoman

How many years have you worked with them? And on what types of applications?


49 posted on 04/06/2009 10:26:21 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks.)
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To: mbraynard

>>>>> I don’t particularly thing that Indians who are here are wealthy because they use cheap Indian labor. <<<<<<<

I was specifically referring to H1B tech Indians, whom I’ve very definitely seen become “wealthy because they use cheap Indian labor.”

I gave three concrete examples above, no need to restate them. In all cases the Indians exploited other Indians - offshore or H1B tech labor - to enrich themselves and their companies.

It’s true that there are brilliant Indian doctors and engineers.

That’s not really the point.


50 posted on 04/06/2009 11:52:00 AM PDT by angkor
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